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What you said about rock bottom is mathematically impossible. Yes, it can result in future damage ups doing nothing, but that's because your current damage with rock bottom is higher than what it would have been with just that damage up. It's literally impossible for rock bottom to be a damage down, that's the point of the item. I'd also say that it is as incredible as people say it is. It takes 1 item out of 50 or so different possibilities for rock bottom to shine, 99% of rock bottom runs will be extremely powerful if played perfectly
Lil' Dumpy is way too underrated, he can potentially (emphasis on potentially) act as a better holy mantle since you can get it back and use it multiple times in a longer fight / room. And even if it doesn't, it's still a really good defensive item.
I agree with eraser, it's something that seems like it's really good but then when you get in on your run it just kind of ends up being underwhelming and not contributing a whole lot with enemies not reappearing much... Flip is definitely better then B though cause you can actually take both items if you take the item on the pedestal first, then use flip to yoink the other. It's basically like damocles without the downside of DEATH though its a little weaker cause it doesn't work on boss items
Eraser on Bethany or Tainted Bethany is run winning tho. You can use it once for every soul heart charge. I had a run where almost everything was erased lol
I think the weird icon you don't recognize is supposed to be the "pill crusher" item that they plan(ned?) to add. Kinda odd that it's in the list but maybe they're just future proofing it to be safe
42:00 one more thing about the plum flute: if you happen to find sacrificial altar while holding it, you can summon baby plum and use it as a sacrifice for free, which is great if you don't have familiars.
@@nautilus2342 Damage ups are never useless with rock bottom, as if for example you get a strenght card you will keep the damege up AND the strenght card, so basically you CANT never lose damage with rock bottom. Is a net positive in every situation no matter what
@@bd1pLP Bs. There is a damage cap for max damage depending on what your dmg is. Like having a 1 damage up will increase the total damage limit. Its just that damage gets so stacked with some items that it reaches the damage cap for the current damage stat
@@jandriv3878 you dont lose stat with rock bottom but you CAN gain no stat Rock bottom only lock a minimum value for stat while the game still calculate your actual stat If you use empress, you get 1,5x dmg and rock bottom set it as the minimum. Exiting the room will drop the actual stat to the original but still does the minimum dmg. Now if you use strength, your atcual dmg will get higher but still lower than the minimum, so you will still do the same dmg
Basically all of the double tap items are good if you play on keyboard and bad if you play on controller. Mars and Divine intervention are some of my favorite new items in the game. Also belly jelly and intruder should be higher. Intruder shot might not be amazing dps but the slow is really nice and the on hit effect does require you to get hit. But even if you completely ignore that effect the slow shots are still really nice to have (plus extra dps doesn't hurt) And belly jelly is literally 50% damage reduction. It negates on average 1 out of 2 hits you take which is fantastic. Good list though.
I don’t think Dreamcatcher’s _that_ bad. I see it pretty often in my runs, usually pretty early. The main issue of it just comes down to user error because we all collectively forget it exists before it’s too late (myself included). It’s especially good on Beast runs. If nothing else it’s a unique and clever item that utilizes an aspect of the game nobody ever thought could be part of legitimate gameplay
@@RematodeRanger how often are you gonna get that though? Aside from maggy which even then it’s not very common it’s pretty hard to do especially considering many characters can’t regen
@@ahonfksjii7695 Sun card isn’t that hard to come by, sun card + wafer is a more than easy +10 tears up on a final boss if you go for a tank build (also soul of maggy and queen of hearts break it hurts)
Sharp key is honestly one of the most underrated items imo it's a piercing key that gets effected by your tear affects it opens double keys rooms by one key it can open multiple chests with a single key in chest and dark room it has a chance to make enemies it kills drop an item it opens mines, gahenna, mons heart and beast doors,plus if you have mom's key you can use it offensively since the enemies that will die will more often than not drop multiple keys in its replacement
I gotta be honest, i am not a fan of the double tap mechanic. That goes for Divine Intervention, that goes for Hemoptysis (the t azazel sneeze), ...that especially goes for Mars, god i hate Mars as a controller player. It just sucks, it always triggers unintentionally and never when i want to, I can actually lose a good run to Mars as I am not in good control of my character anymore. Screw Mars.
Rock bottom is A, because it's run winnable if you find other good items that synergies very well with this item. If you find it late in game or you just don't found the right items this item is just like good to have. P.S Sorry for my English it's not my main language
You don't even need items for rock bottom to shine, if you find a card like strength you basically get a free magic mushroom (except you don't keep the heart and the size) and that can carry you through the game, hell even if you find a better card like huge growth you keep the insane 7 damage up and that alone can carry
Isn't the weird item the pill crusher? It is a shame it was cut, it seemed like it would be interesting. I can get that creating effects for all 40+ normal pills would have been difficult, but I can't help but wonder what kind of use it would get if it was eventually implemented. I imagine ones such as the size altering pills could inflict tiny on the enemies, or maybe Friends 'Till the End could give you a temporary Skatole effect for the current room. Then again, I can't imagine it being too good without PHD or Cain, as I can't imagine all of the effects would be positive. I picture if a stat-up were to help you, then a stat-down in the crusher would likely have the exact opposite effect. Ah, but unless it gets added, I guess we'll never know.
wavy cap + rock bottom is a run winning synergy, because you can spam it and get like 20 tear rate, then exit and continue to stop the intoxication effect that's the only scenario i can find it useful
Wavy Cap I've only found once so far (and it wasn't even a winning run) and I quickly learned to use it in moderation It's funni but unironically the first few layers of distortion are perfectly manageable so I stick to about 2-3 at a time Also I really hate Vasculitis, Plum Flute, and some others for their tears blending in, even the Bullet Visibility option is barely noticeable at a glance! Luckily there is a Workshop mod that changes it to be a lot more noticeable, though I still mostly play on Switch
Friend Finder is a run winner, the Vis are so powerful. Allies summoned by Friend Finder that cause explosions can't hurt you (at least the Green Gaper's can't) = free secret rooms/rock breaking.
Idk if this was before the latest patch, but isn't little dumpy just a better holy mantle? It protects you from a hit but can be used more times in one room.
I HAD A BEST RIN OF MY LIFE FIRST FLOR R KEY AND ?CARD AND AFTER A WHILE A HAD GOD MODE GOT MEGA STAN AND R KEYED WENT TO DROSS AND FUCKING BROKE THE MIRROR BC OF ACID TEARS FUCKKKKKKKK
@@TMSupertriskel I've had several runs where i get rock bottom but nothing to synergize with it. It's a godamn overrated item. Yes it's broken in some circumstances but half of the time it's just dead weight
I feel like it's unfair to rate Blood Oath based on just itself and ignoring any synergies. If every item was rated based on just what it does and ignoring synergies, rock bottom would be F tier because it doesn't do anything by itself, you need other items.
I have to say I really enjoyed watching this Tier list but there’s one major thing bothering me…it’s the argument “it’s bad because I can’t remember what Items I’ve picked up”. Like sorry but that’s just not doing the item justice…it’s not too hard to remember passive effects(seems like an object permanency issue)
Imo redeption and act of contriction should have been swapped, it makes more sense to get act of contriction from sacrifice room after taking devil deal than getting redemption
Oh my fucking god between te beginning to the end we just experienced three world wars, 20 pandemics and 10 more times Edmund said there wouldn't be new DLC!
You really underestimated pound of flesh tbh. It's not uncommon to have shitloads of coins because the shop options all suck or you get 2 greed fights. This makes it coins useful in devil deals and also in the dark room floor. Pound of flesh at least gives you a nice option to spend otherwise these useless coins
Candy Hearts: S Soul Locket: A tells me everything I have to know about the valitidy of this tier list. I agree with 85% of it, but the other 15% is a huge, long stretch.
@@bd1pLP Soul Locket works on all except Keeper, Candy Heart fails on any character that can't pick up red hearts and T. Bethany (for some reason). Locket gives double the stat upgrades. Soul hearts take damage before red hearts, meaning that at full HP, Locket can still give stat ups at the cost of taking intentional damage. Candy Heart requires a red heart damaging item to give stats at full HP, that or removing all soul hearts for a low amount of stat ups. Soul locket spawns in Angel Rooms, which have a good chance at spawning soul hearts and blue fires. Devil Rooms also spawn black hearts.
In specific situations soul locket can be better than candy heart(maybe you have mitre, serpents kiss(highly nerfed), gimpy, relic(highly nerfed), dark bum(highly nerfed) etc. sure but getting reliable soul heart drops is very rare, compare that to red heart drop rates + self damaging build items(IV bag[almost a guarantee item if you get 1 or 2 arcades], blood rights, razor, the tainted eve item, blood oath, etc.) + items that give red health(old bandage, gimpy, fanny pack, childs heart, little chad, queen of hearts, etc.) + you have a high red heart drop rate as room clear reward, by breaking poop, by buying it from shop for just 3 pennies,
wait but like spirit sword is bad in big boss fights tho right? tell me what you think (ex. mother, beast, DELIRIUM especially) not saying its not a good item just tell me what you think about it for final bosses. btw ur videos are insane dude keep it up
Isaacs awakening opened my eyes on this item. The challenge is really easy until you get to the mother boss fight because the contact damage just ruins your life, but it's still amazing.
oh no 2spooky makes enemies so erratic :((( if only you could in some way remember what items you have in your head or something to take advantage of them
@@bd1pLP I just think "I could potentially take damage from this if I don't realize enemies will be feared" while ignoring any upside is a shit argument against 2spooky
the upside that enemies... act erratically? and that you cannot tell what they’re going to do? or that bosses randomly become unfeared and can insta hit you? there are some upsides, but imagine being surrounded by globins, and there’s a turret in the center of the room, because the globins move VERY slowly when feared, you now cannot dodge to any direction not really an upside
@@bd1pLP Enemies are going to flee and be unable to attack when they get close to you. Which is not crazily erratic enough not to play around imo. Bosses don't get randomly unfeared, but after a while, so this can also be taken into account. I just think some cognitive bias is at play because it's easier to remember getting hit by the item than the times you avoid enemies because of it. But I'm sorry for initially starting my point rudely.
Hard disagree on Magic skin, its just a worse devil deal since you don't know what you're getting, loose 1 heart or 2 souls and get a broken heart container and confessionals are not that common and don't pay out that much. Whenever you drop it for mega mush or something it will replace like, every other item with itself giving you a net neutral on items where The Lovers? doesn't, making The Lovers? a more common AND BETTER magic skin since when its combined with Blank Card its 4 charges instead of 6 AND no "haha funny replace item" Sure you can use the backpack but like thats a waste of backpack just so it doesn't replace Chest Chest items or Void Boss items The Stars? Is also better because its a net gain, you choose what item pool like magic and Lovers? but you only loose an item, oh no shame I lost cube of meat and only gained Necronomicon and Mr Mega but it was cube of meat. If you traded the value of 2 red hearts and gained Mr Mega you'd be pissed but if you traded cube of meat you wouldn't care as much. C Tier at best. Sure you might get sacred heart but would you really pay 2 red hearts for the bible?
This item has won literally 95% of the runs I've had it in. As long as you pop it in secret rooms or rooms with restock machines you're guaranteed at least 1 run winning item
“Worse devil deal” You can use it in different pools like ones that have echo chamber, rock bottom, glitched crown, mega mush, spin-down, chaos, Esau jr, r-key, death certificate, vanishing twin, evil charm, etc. Also if you dropped it for mega mush then, you win. Who cares what the other items are when you’ve already won?
mars cannot be below C it lets you go to cursed room for free and open spiked chest for free it has it uses vs certain items you put near F tier which are all trash and i agree with the rest of the whole tier list
