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By the time Beavis and Butthead came out, hair/pop metal was pretty much dead, thanks to grunge. B&B had little to do with Winger's demise, they were already DOA at that point in the 90s.
I've only recently got into Winger. I don't know why they get lumped in with hair metal/pop metal such as Poison or Bon Jovi, to me they are higher quality than that, there's 'Seventeen' which is the obvious chart hit, but there's much more to them beyond that. I think Europe is a good comparison, they remind me more of Def Leppard and Europe than the obvious glam/hair acts.
I got Dog Eat Dog in the mail from Columbia House and i was like "Oh god, i hate this band. I must have forgot to mail back the tape of the month selection card back". After two days i said what the hell and popped it in. Wow, great album and totally changed my opinion on Jani Lane. Hole In My Wall, April 2031, Andy Warhol Was Right, and Machine Gun are standouts but a damn solid record. I would also add Dokken's Dysfunctional and Motley Crue's Corabi Album. Pull is awesome!
Pull is definitely one of the most underrated albums ever. I’m in my 50’s & Pull is in my top 10 albums of all time........it’s that good!! Kip Winger was pretty much the last artist to roll through here in Perth Australia before the covid shutdown and he was spectacular. That is one seriously talented guy!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
hell ya bud pull was wingers masterpiece !!!! saw winger at least 4 times from 89-94 absolutely loved them top notch band if im not mistaken the pull tour was cancelled for me in ontario here but i saw them at kingswood music theatre maybe that was pull white lions masterpiece mane attraction tour was cancelled as well
Pull belongs to the last albums entering my top 10. Only Talk form Yes and Images & Words from Dream Theater managed this feat from the 90s. After the mid 90s there were tons of albums I highly enjoy, but masterpieces like this became a rarity (rarity in the sense of not existent).
Thanks Rich & Pete for giving time to yet another band deserving at least a second listening chance so Mission Accomplished on your part. Now the Winger catalogue has been added to my listen-to list for reconsideration. As one of those who dismissed them too early in their career, your discussion makes a new listening a must. Thanks for the great show and making at least one of us rethink their catalogue.
1- Pull (one of the greatest Hard Rock albums of the 90s) 2- Karma (Great Modern Hard Rock) 3- In The Heart Of The Young 4- Better Days Comin' 5- Winger (Solid Pop Metal album. State Of Emergency and Time to Surrender are great tracks) 6- Winger IV (a very strong album& powerful lyrics)
I will confess to being among those people who never really thought much about Winger beyond "Seventeen." You guys have compelled me to go give them a closer listen.
I'm a huge Winger fan! The talent that oozes out of that band is amazing. Classically trained musicians. Here's how you know Winger are talented: Rod wasn't originally gonna join Winger because of their sound, then he started working with Kip and Reb and was so blown away by their talent that he agreed to join the band. He's an extremely talented jazz fusion drummer too, keep that in mind. Also, Kip is now composing classical music and musicals! One of my top 10 bands of all-time! Here is my ranking: 1. In the Heart of the Young 2. Pull 3. Winger 4. Better Days Comin' 5. Karma 6. IV
I’m glad to see you guys do this episode!!! Winger are a very underrated band by most people. I just love them!!! Pull is definitely their best album!!!
I love that you finally reviewed winger. They are utterly amazing musicians. I've seen kip solo 3 times and winger twice. Basically flawless. Oh yeah, reb Beach > kirk Hammett. Had to throw that in there haha
I feel like before grunge came along, metal was starting to get back to its roots in the very late 80s to early 90s. Like 1989-1992. Or at the very least, there were bands coming out that didn’t sound all glitzy and glammy. Lots of bands came out around then that were a nice return to form in metal. Extreme, winger, Saigon Kick, jackyl, spread Eagle, skid row, Mr. Big, Firehouse, slaughter. Just to name a few
Just as you said Hard Rock Bands were moving towards a more classic Hard Rock sound in the early 90s. Tho it's a myth that Grunge killed it. In 1992, at the height of Grunge, Def Leppard and Kiss were still selling out arenas. In 1993, American Music Industry pushed it out of the mainstream to focus on Rap, Dance and Alternative bands to make more money.
Lucha Libertaria well maybe “killed it” is the wrong terminology. What I mean is grunge came along and with the exception of a few bands (like Leppard and kiss like you said), there wasn’t much interest in those 80s metal bands anymore
@@alexandergilles8583 Agreed. it's ironic that there were all these solid albums from 80s bands in the early-mid 90s despite declining interest from casual music fans. I remember that even saying that you like 80s music was considered as 'politically incorrect' in the mid-90s 😀
@@alexandergilles8583 Imho the reasons for the decline in interest are: - Sure Alternative explosion in the early 90s took away attention from traditional Rock bands. However there were still Millions of people listening to Traditional Rock bands (even tho some people jumped on the alternative bandwagon) GnR was the biggest band in the world in 1992. - American Music Industry figured it out that they can make more money with Dance and Rap acts. A guy rapping over a sampled track is much cheaper to produce than having 5 guys in studio recording a Heavy Rock album, esp. in those pre-protools days. And for College Kids, you had Alternative bands. - In early 1993 Mtv changed its format and started to focus on Dance, Rap and Alternative bands. Headbangers Ball changed its format as well & started to focus heavily on alternative bands. At the same time, you had shows like Beavis and Butthead that depicted metal fans as mentally retarded goons. - Your average casual music fans taste is shaped by conformism, peer pressure and conforming to the so-called consensus (which's largely created by self-appointed taste-makers like Rolling Stone ) Those "taste-makers" started to depict traditional Rock bands as out of date 'Dinosaur music' & hyped alternative bands as 'real music'. - In 1993, American Record Companies got rid of almost all of the Hard Rock/Metal bands from their roster. Their Mission was complete.
Reb is one of my favorite guitarists and one of the more underrated ones... His tapping skills are phenomenal and very unique, this separates him from all the guys that just derived from EVH. There's an instructional video where he shows the exact mechanics of his technique and it's fascinating... As if that wasn't enough he's probably one of the coolest whammy-bar guys, a good riff-maker, has a very distinct squiggly/slippery tone and a jazz fusion background that makes for some wonderful phrasing unbeknownst to most general rock or blues-based players... Winger as a whole was a pretty strong songwriting unit... Even though there are some formulaic "hit" songs in their catalogue, there are also some tricky compositions and even ballads that sound unconventional- like stuff that I'd imagine hearing in a film score or something. The fact that this band was once ridiculed is atrocious!
I would go to that show in a heartbeat!!! I am huge massive fan of both Winger and Europe big time. I love all their albums and I listen to all of them very often by both bands. Winger is way more than just Seventeen, Can't Get Enough, and Easy Come Easy Go , and I do love these songs. Europe is way more than just The Final Countdown, Rock The Night, Carrie, and Superstitious, and I love these songs as well. Winger has some amazing songs like Blind Revolution Mad, Pull Me Under, Stone Cold Killer, Your Great Escape, Queen Babylon, Tin Soldier, and many more. Europe has some amazing Ninja, In The Future To Come, America, Stormwind, Wings Of Tomorrow, Memories, The Beast, Doghouse, and many more. Both bands do not deserve the hate that they get.
Big fan of the channel, and was so glad to see Pete and Rich ranking Winger albums! Winger is arguably my favorite band of all-time. Kip's solo work is amazing as well. as both Pete and Rich said, there's not a "bad" album in Winger's discography, so it's more a ranking of preference in terms of what you want to listen to. My list seems to change quite a bit, but as of today, this is where I'm at: 1. IV - From top to bottom, I think this is Reb's best guitar work in Winger. Love the progressive feel and I'm a sucker for concept albums. 2. Pull - I think the band would tell you this is the best representation of Winger on record. Mature sound and songwriting; this is the album where I think Kip shines the most vocally. 3. Winger - Hard to beat Madeline-Hungry-Seventeen for your opening 3 tracks. Headed for a Heartbreak is in my opinion, the best power ballad of the 80's, carried by Reb's amazing guitar outro; I don't know how else to describe it but you FEEL the heartbreak in the song in his playing. Such emotion. 4. Karma - Another blistering solo by Reb to close out a ballad - Witness. Deal with the Devil and Stone Cold Killer are great. 5. In The Heart of the Young - Interesting album. A lighter/softer sound from the debut in an effort to be more radio/MTV-friendly. That said, there's hints of what was to come from the band here and I like that they didn't stay to a single formula. Rainbow in the Rose would be my favorite here. 6. Better Days Comin' - A good album. I really like the frantic nature of Rat Race and Tin Soldier is amazing, along with Queen Babylon and Midnight Driver of a Love Machine. Feel like the title track and some songs on the second half of the album are skippable, so that's why it's No. 6, but again, far from a bad album and overall well worth a listen.
My one 1993 and two 1988 same as PETE & RICH. PETE/ tremendous point. In 93 the landscape of music didn’t allow WINGERS masterpiece “ to shine! Tremendous album 👍💯
1. Pull 2. In the heart of the young 3. Karma 4. Better days comin' 5. Winger 6. IV It is very hard to rank such amazing albums by one of the best bands. But Pull ought be on top.
1. Karma (I listen to this one more than the others, plain and simple, love it front to back) 2. Pull 3. In The Heart Of The Young (I bought this one when I was 14 because of Easy Come Easy Go...it all about the three songs after that one now...Rainbow in the Rose, In The Day We'll Never See and Under One Condition) 4. Better Days Comin' 5. Winger 6. Winger IV (I love Blue Suede Shoes..great song)
Stoked with this one! Glad you are doing some 80s-style hard rock pop-metal groups. Winger are grossly underrated and suffered from the (albeit very funny cartoon) Beavis and Butthead dis.
Pull is not only their best, it's one of the very best of that era! I saw them live on that tour and was absolutely amazed. I think you guys both nailed this. The lists are a little different, but with good comments as to why. I really hope they come out with that next album. I know it's hard for bands like this to juggle schedules with all their other projects. I would love the opportunity to see them again, and I'm sure many of you agree.
the DVD, the making of Pull and IV and gave me more appreciation of the IV album. might be my number one today, could change tomorrow, cause I love all their albums. great, great live band as well. seen them a couple times and they brought fans on stage to jam Van Halen with them, very cool.
Rich, the song you were asking about from Blue Oyster Cult is The Alchemist , where he is with the monk robe on. KICK ASS SONG! Great episode by both you guys, loving it!!
Winger’s live DVD is what turned me into a fan. I saw that when it came out and I was BLOWN AWAY by how good they were live! I immediately dug into their catalog of albums and became a huge fan. Really great stuff. 🤘
So here's my ranking- which is tough, because I like a bunch of them pretty much equally: 6- Pull (1993)- Strong record, I just don't think any of my favorites are on here. I could probably listen and not skip a song, though. 5- Better Days Comin' (2014)- Maybe the lightest Winger album? But also with a lot of variety. Wonderfully produced, I love the synth/keyboard sound. Some songs like Out of this World and Ever Wonder sound gorgeous, they have that almost film-score quality I mentioned which can be found on older songs like Under One Condition and Headed for a Heartbreak, but a little more updated. 4- In the Heart of the Young (1990)- Almost hurt to put this one here because it's got some of my favorites like Rainbow in the Rose, In the Day We'll Never See and Easy Come, Easy Go. Probably weaker overrall, though. Some fun rockers, a couple of predictable ballads and weird stuff like Baptized by Fire mixed in. It all kinda works, though. I feel like even though there are some standard tunes on here, this is where Winger got a little more experimental, because the best tunes are the unconventional ones. 3- IV (2006)- This record is one of a kind. It's got some of Winger's trickier compositions and a general theme, which might make it one of their proggiest albums, and there's also a heavier, more menacing side to it. Four-Leaf Clover and Short Flight to Mexico are some of my favorites in Winger's catalogue. This could also be one of Reb's strongest guitar record. His phrasing is insane here. 2- Winger (1988)- A perfect 80s hard rock record in my opinion. I think that it being their most formulaic record is the only thing keeping it from being my favorite. I mean formulaic from the songwriting aspect, because Reb's novelty, over the top yet melodic guitar style puts it in a class of its own. I keep thinking this shouldn't be one of their best but it just holds up really well for me. All of these guys were well-rounded musicians at the time, so the fact that a debut would have this amount of quality might be surprising to people in general but kinda makes sense. I mean, Winger was basically a supergroup of mega-talents that were sort of flying (pun intended) under the radar for years. 1- Karma (2009)- It was a tough pick, but whenever I'm tossing random songs into a Winger playlist, the sheer amount coming from this album makes a huge statement. It's heavy, riffy, melodic and modern sounding- which is one of the high points. Winger has a knack for making modern rock records that sound heavy and virtuosic but aren't ripping off the music of its time. Reb's guitar playing is very consistent over the years, but there are some stand-out moments here. Big World Away, Always Within Me, Pull Me Under, Supernova... Of Course- nothing beats Witness in my opinion. The guitar outro gives me chills, definitely a top 5 song for me!
Thomas Engel I’m glad I’m not the only one. To me every song is brilliant with the exception of Blue Suede Shoes. I don’t get that track, but the rest is just so phenomenal, gotta be my number 1. Saw them on the Winger IV tour. Insane!
I'm a HUGE HUGE Winger fan (I even have an In The Heart of the Young tattoo)! It's great to see that Pete & co dig Winger and their complete discography. Here's my ranking. 1. IV 2. Pull 3. In The Heart of the Young 4. Karma 5. S/T 6. Better Days Comin'
winger pull and 4 are my two fav's Pete, love Winger, saw them at least 4 times in the early days and saw reb beach at the house of guitars around 89 !!!!!
I was dismissive of this band until I saw The Making of Pull. You really saw how talented the band is. Now I have everything by them. Agree with Rich’s list. Better Days is a really great album.
6. IV 5. Better Days Coming 4. Karma 3. In the Heart of the Young 2. self-titled 1. Pull Saw Winger live at the beginning of last year, they were indeed tight. Reb was one of the best to come from that late 80's glam explosion.
Never heard of winger being from uk. Quietly impressed was expecting kinda hair rock. Some great heavy songs. Stone cold killer, and tin soldier are killer. Still got much more to listen too.
I'm so glad you guys covered this dynamic and talented band! These guys should have been huge!! 1. Pull - Fave Track - Junkyard Dog 2. Winger - Fave Track - Hangin' On 3. Karma - Fave Track - Come A Little Closer 4. Better Days Comin' - Fave Track - Rat Race 5. In The Heart Of The Young - Fave Track - Can't Get Enuff 6. Four - Fave Track - Short Flight To Mexico All of these albums are rated between classic (1-3) & very good (4-6). A band should never be judged by the fact that they did a few ballads (very good ones to boot) or that they got radio/MTV regular rotation (since that is what all bands strive for!) which pays the bucks!! Thanks guys, keep rockin'!!
Winger is my all time favorite band, and my order is 1. Pull, 2. IV, 3. Winger, 4. Better Days Comin', 5. In the Heart of the Young, 6. Karma. I love them all though.
If you like to drive - and drive fast - there is no better album than Karma to which you should tach out your high performance engine. Otherwise, I’m going with Pete’s ranking. Tough challenge, guys, but admirable job. Winger rules! ❤️
I am and I have always been a huge massive fan of Winger. I was barely 10 years old when their self titled debut album came out back in the late 80's and I loved them ever since. I just got into Highschool when Beavis and Butthead came out on MTV, and I remember all the kids picking on Winger because of that show. I also remember the Metallica video for Nothing Else Matters of Lars Ulrich throwing darts at Kip Winger. Winger did not deserve the hatred they got all those years at all. As much as I love their first two albums, I actually love most of their albums that came out after way more. I love all of Kip Winger's solo albums alot. I love everything that Reb Beach has done outside of Winger like Dokken, Alice Cooper, Whitesnake, The Mob, and the most recent band Black Swan. I have seen Winger many times and I have met Kip Winger and Reb Beach, and both of them are the most down to earth guys ever and very humble. My ranking for their albums has been the same for at least two to three years. Karma is easily my favorite album of theirs. It is a MASTERPIECE in my eyes. I can't wait for their next album. 6. Winger 4 5. In The Heart Of The Young 4. Winger self titled debut album 3. Pull 2. Better Days Comin 1. Karma
I never knew they had any albums beyond 'Pull'. Those first 3 albums were great! I loved 'In the heart of the young' when it came out. It was a great time. 'Pull' was a great album, but it came out too late unfortunately. That Philly show at Harrahs I was there in 2018. It also had Firehouse.
I decided to watch this video again because there's a Winger box set coming out on November 20th 😮called Chapter One: The Atlantic Years. It's being released by BMG. So, I guess it's similar to those Ratt, Dokken, Skid Row, and Motley Crue box sets. BTW, Rich, thanks for mentioning Unplugged. Watching it on RU-vid
Great vid guys. Have been a fan since the first album.. Was fortunate to see them live in Knoxville along with Bulletboys opening for Cinderella.. I totally agree with Pull being #1. Totally underrated album that was flat out ignored because of the timing of the release. Looking forward to a new album next year.
Never thought you would rank Winger. I have always said this is one of the most underrated bands ever, due to them being incredible musicians, all of them. Pull is still to this day, one of my favorite albums to hear. The first two albums, have great riffs, but the sound was manufactured by the record company to sit well with the end of the 80s sound, but enjoyable all the same. IV is the one I liked the least.
Winger and Europe might be tied for the most under-appreciated bands of all time. Not a bad album to their name. Here's my ranking: 1. In The Heart Of The Young 2. Winger 3. Pull 4. Karma 5. Better Days Comin' 6. IV
Winger is an awesome band, I liked them since Madeleine. Like you I wasn't a fan of 17 but it was acceptable pop. Better Days Coming is probably my favorite of the newer ones. It's got a nice balance of tracks imo.
I feel Winger is often;wrongly- labeled as "hair metal"....yeah- their early catalog was more mainstream friendly but had content! Look @ the line-up....Kip,a great composer & charismatic/Reb Beach,a rock guitar mainstay/Rod Morganstein,Drummer extrodinaire! My favorite album - PULL. The least cohesive lV. I do enjoy some songs from their debut. Really liked IN THE HEART OF THE YOUNG & BETTER DAYS COMIN'.
@@gwts1171 All has it's place & time....sometimes U want the gloom & doom of early Sabbath;sometimes U wanna vent over bitches & other women😄. All good!
There are plenty of "hair metal" bands that can really play. I don't know that talent keeps them out of the genre. Extreme, Mr Big, etc. Winger is kind of the hair metal version of Toto. A group of studio musicians and/or journeymen with serious talent that play some poppy songs in their mix.
@@kitoyobeni1 There's no music genre called 'Hair metal'. Its a dumb 90s expression to ridicule Hard Rock Bands of the 80s, just like they were using the 'Dinosaur Music' term to ridicule 70s classic rock bands.
@@LuchaLibertaria I hate the term too, but its universally used to describe 80s hard rock. There's no avoiding it, like it or not. Just like grunge isn't a genre, the bands included are too disparate in style. Media creations, but universsl.
Here's my ten cent (incl. favourite songs): 1. In The Heart Of The Young (Easy Come Easy Go, Rainbow In The Rose, Under One Condition) 2. Karma (Come A Little Closer, Always Within Me) 3. Pull (Down Incognito, Spell I'm Under) 4. Better Days Comin' (Rat Race) 5. Winger (Headed For A Heartbreak) 6. IV (---) Saw the band o their reunion tour for the IV-Album in germany. And we had the honour to open up a show for Kip Solo in Switzerland. He then gave us the name for our forthcoming band. We asked him how he still looks that young. He simply answered: "Every morning I wake up, I drink some Virgin Blood.", hahaha! Cheers from germany
1. In The Heart Of The Young 2. Pull 3. Winger 4. Better Days Comin' 5. IV 6. Karma I agree, these are all very good albums Also, for bonus points here is my ranking of Kip's solo catalog 1. This Conversation Seems Like A Dream 2. From The Moon To The Sun 3. Songs From The Ocean Floor Finally, The Mob, which is a one-time Reb Beach side project, is KILLER.
1 Pull (Blind Revolution Mad) 2 In the Heart of the Young (Rainbow in the Rose) 3 Better Days Comin' (Tin Soldier) 4 Karma (Deal with the Devil) 5 IV (M16) 6 Sahara (Without the Night)
I remember you telling me a few years ago you had no interest in sunset strip heavy metal or ranking them. I'm glad to see that you changed your mind. IV is last on my list. Nothing wrong with the song 17 or cherry pie. Both amazing songs
I haven't listened long enough to the 3 latter albums (but like some of what I've heard). So I will rank the first 3. Really really close on these 3, which one to listen to depends on what mood I'm in. 3) the debut - love the production value on this record and it's a pretty strong album. But two weak tracks - Purple Haze and Hangin On - put it at #3. 2) Pull - love the crunch on this record. Great songwriting. The foursome of Blind Revolution Mad, In My Veins, The Lucky One, Who's the One is really good. 1) In the Heart of the Young - The singles are probably the weakest tracks on the record (except Miles Away, which is a sentimental favorite of mine) and even those are alright. It's the really strong album cuts I love, not a weak one.
Saw these guys on their tour for the second album in Essex Junction, VT. My favorite album is Pull followed by the debut. Favorite songs are Down Incognito, Battle Stations, Who's The One, Madeleine, 17, Junkyard Dog, Easy Come Easy Go and Can't Get Enough.
Totally agree with Rich's thoughts on the debut. Swap out "Seventeen" and the "Purple Haze" cover and the album is even better. That B-side "Higher and Higher" should have been on there instead and one of those left out demos. Record label monkey business wanting hits with a cover and a dumb radio type song. "Battle Stations" from the Bill & Ted Bogus Journey soundtrack has always been a favorite of mine too and could have gone on there or the second album instead of one of the weaker tracks. I saw the "Seventeen" video first and didn't think much of it either and thought it was kinda dumb, but saw them open for Ozzy on his No Rest For The Wicked tour and Winger was great. I bought the debut after that and have liked them since. Pull is an unappreciated classic for sure too. And can't help but appreciate Reb as a fellow "Beach" LOL
Yes! 'Pull' is a five-star album! 'The Lucky One' is my fave off it. Apparently, about Kip and Rachel Hunter, when she ran off with Rod Stewart whilst Winger were away on tour.
If you like Broadway Kip WInger's New Get Jack album is really good. My Ranking: #6 - Better Days Coming #5 - Winger #4 - IV #3 - In the heart of the young #2 - Karma #1 - Pull
1. Winger IV 2. Pull 3. Karma 4. Better Days Comin' 5. Winger 6. In the Heart of the Young This was tough to do, but all Winger is great. I think Kip and Reb really improved as song writers over the years. Kip studied music theory and did 3 solo albums and composed a classic orchestra album a few years back. Winger IV is my favorite because it combines the musical IQ and talent of Kip, Reb, Rod, and Roth and takes it to 11.
Kinda suprising choice to choose Winger for ranking but great whatsoever. Though I’m not probably the only one who wonders why you haven’t rank W.A.S.P. albums already. Great band and whether you like Blackie Lawless or not, he is one of the best rock singers of all time. Hands down.
Unfortunately Beavis and Butthead did them no favours - never understood why B&B didnt pick on worse bands of the time ?- and there were quite a few that were nowhere near as good as Winger (IMO)- step forward firehouse, kix, britney fox, bullet boys, poison- and didnt Warrant have to use the great Mike Slamer on Cherry Pie? - I mean any band with Reb Beach and Rod Morgenstein is going to be at least good if not great. Pull is excellent and I quite like the first two as well.
1. Pull 2. In the Heart of the Young 3. Karma 4. Winger 5. IV 6. Better Days Comin' Enjoy all the albums though, but Pull and In the Heart of the Young have a special place in my heart.
I love Winger! Great,killer,majorly misunderstood band! Here’s my ranking. 1.Winger 2.In The Heart of The Young 3.Better Days Comin 4.Pull 5.Karma 6.IV
