Degrom's FIP speaks for itself. He heard the phrase "pitch for contact" and thought "that's a cop out". Dude's an absolute beast, and wish he played up here for Toronto.
i’m still confused on what the premise is…i’m guessing they meant best of the 21st century? also how is cliff floyd going to emphasize wins and then put degrom at #2 lol
He didn't really think that one through obviously but the premise is clearly just being filthy and for more than just 2-3 years. It's also difficult to do a list like that when you're not splitting it into two decades. Comes down to individual opinion at that point. deGrom is undisputed in 2010-2020. The argument that guys like Johan, Pedro etc. should be included in a 2000s list is pretty strong. For that reason should have split the decades.
@@therealjip Should have an asterisk next to that stat, given that it the 2020 season. Also helped that they got to play against a team with 1/10 their budget.
@@Ariana321 why does it matter we played a team 1/10 the dodgers' budget? A win is a win. Plus why should 2020 have an asterik? if anything it's the Astros in 2017. Anyways, Kershaw is top 5 regardless. He is a world series champ and you can't take that away from him.
@@tribalchief791 yeah I forgot about him, Zack elfin kinda gives me oswalt vibes especially if he can keep that era down. Been waiting on him and Vince to get their eras down
Wins meant a lot when pitchers went deep into games. Denny McLain won 31 in 1968 and it meant a lot. He had 37 decisions. How many pitchers even start that many games today?
@@dl2k671 Proving what? Demonstrate conclusively that McLain was a replacement level talent in 1968 and just stumbled into 31 wins pitching poorly late into games. Show me where a pitcher has stumbled into 55 wins in a two year period as an average or below-average pitcher. My point was that wins meant more when starters were going through the order four times than now when they go through it two or three.
@@nathanbarnes9373 he definitely is. One of the last breeds of old school pitchers. When he retired he was the active leader in shutouts and complete games. If roy had the team kershaw did he would have close to 250 wins. Roy played on literally the worst team of the early 21st century and still always had a positive win record. One of the most dominant pitchers of his era. Everyone hated squaring up to Roy at the plate.
@@Gdfsandoz I was talking about greinke and his peak being definitely top 6 but I agree with you on roy too if both weren't on such bad teams for most of their careers their numbers like era and wins would look similar to kershaws imo
@@w8ssy Being a winner? Jacob a pitcher is responsible for his own run support? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The doc had 12/6 hook , fastball command, could frame you up on the box, loved when he started throwing The Rivera cutter after that all star game, now he could jam u up, or get more ground balls.
"If he has two of his pitches working for him, its gonna be tough. If he has all three working, we have no shot." I dont remember which opposing manager said this about facing Kershaw but I think its accurate and shows how much respect everyone in the game has for him
Kershaw, Holliday, Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke, Sale...Martinez is a close one but all those active guys are going to add more stats and will look better post 2000.
@@declanhickey1533 nah lmao you cant qualify it like that. Its either the 2000’s or the 2010’s. Cant combine the two they arent the same eras. The top 5-6 in the 00’s is very different from the 10’s list
@@ethan3949 I hope you are just trolling with that statement. Otherwise it's a dumbass statement. The reason he only had 169 wins is because he pitched behind bottom 3 offenses every single year and even a historically bad offense in 2012 I believe. If he went 9 innings and gave up no runs their was a pretty good chance he wasn't getting a win. You heard that right. Those teams STRUGGLED to even get 1 run many times.
The freak was nasty with that spliter curve ball combo, watch a lot of his starts in his prime. I always watch the best pitching matchups while the Cubs suck
Even as a diehard Mariners fan in the 90s who got to watch Big Unit every start, Pedro was way ahead of him and other pitchers by miles. He had 4 A+ pitches that he could locate. He put up ridiculously great numbers in a hitters park and in an AL with juiced up stars everywhere. Best pitcher ive ever seen. Randy was absolutely filthy but his knock was at times he had control issues. His control issues are why I also put Maddux ahead of him in the 90s era. In the 2000's era I put Randy Johnson ahead of Pedro because he got better and shined in the postseason as Pedro got older and struggled especially in the postseason against the Yankees.
1.Pedro Martinez 2.Roy Holladay 3. Johan Santana 4.Randy Johnson 5.Roger Clemens 6.Curt Schilling 7. Tim Lincecum 8. Cliff Lee 9. Josh Beckett 10. Felix Hernandez I watched baseball religiously and honestly Johan, Roy and Pedro were the holy trinity in that era. And to see Johan not get any love truly infuriates me.
Waino won 3 rings went to the world series 5 times and set the record with yadi for most wins with a single catcher I believe. Statistically hes a sneaky candidate
There are plenty of great pitchers in the 2000 era that have had great careers, Pedro Martinez, Andy Pettitte, Roy Oswalt, Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, Johan Santana, etc. Its kind of difficult comparing to players still playing at the moment, probably should be some separation there.
Huge verlander fan, electric stuff , power fastball, power slide piece, and 3 finger change and that change was filthy, but his uncle Charlie deemed him as lord Charles
I believe that Randy Johnson was the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time. He would dominate any era of baseball. He barely missed being the second man the strike out 5,000 in his career. If just one of his early seasons with Montreal have been a little bit better, he would have had it. Randy Johnson and Roy holiday were the last complete game pitchers in major league history. Randy Johnson pulled off the unheard of seasons with 300 or more strikeouts and eras around 2:00.
Tim Lincecum. He dominated for 4 years then flamed out. But he was sure fun to watch and root for. He will always be one of my top favorite players, just a tad under Will Clark.
Top 10 in order Pedro, Kershaw, Johnson, Hernandez, Verlander, Scherzer, Degrom, Grienke, Halloday Arguably Pedro and Johnson really are lower since this is just supposed to be their 2000's work, I still think they belong in the list though. (Especially Pedro)
@Danny Chains As I said it's debatable because of the encompassing time period.. That being said Pedro had arguably the best peak for a pitcher, since at least WW2, if not of all time, and the majority of that peak was in the 2000s.
Here is a list with actual numbers. 1. Clayton Kershaw (2.45 ERA, 2597 Strikeouts, 157 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) 2. Max Scherzer (3.19 ERA, 2869 Strikeouts, 132 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) 3. Justin Verlander (3.33 ERA, 3013 Strikeouts, 129 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 8x) 4. Randy Johnson (3.34 ERA, 2182 Strikeouts, 137 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x) 5. Jacob Degrom (2.54 ERA, 1433 Strikeouts, 154 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 3x) 6. Roy Halladay (3.38 ERA, 2117 Strikeouts, 131 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) Just for context here is the rest of my list: 7. Johan Santana (3.20 ERA, 1988 Strikeouts, 136 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 5x) 8. Zach Grienke (3.38 ERA, 2742 Strikeouts, 124 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x) 9. Felix Hernandez (3.42 ERA, 2524 Strikeouts, 117 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x)
You can argue that Mark Buehrle should have been in the top 5, and you didn't even give him honorable mention? Look at his numbers from 2000 and on, dude is seriously underrated.
@@tgrt1348 Ok got it. But yes a lot of people forget about him. 5x all-star, 2 no hitters (one of which was perfect game) and a world series win. His numbers are equal to or better than the top six list in the video. I know there were others overlooked also such as Greinke.
How does Cliff Floyd NOT rank Doc? I think Plesiac's list is better. I would have ranked them Halladay/ Kershaw/ Scherzer/ Verlander/ Linculm and Hernandez. DOC was dominant for ten years.
I have no problem with any of the pitchers on this list. I have a problem with a "2000s" list (which appears to be tracking 2005ish-now) not taking into account post-season performance. How do you put Lincecum on a list like this and not have Bumgarner? That's all I'm saying.
If they didn’t have Randy Johnson it’s make more sense, but since he’s in, where the heck is Pedro?! Both pitches until 2009. Both had their last really good season in 2005. If you’re talking more 2005 and beyond, they should’ve mentions johan Santana for sure. Also cliff lee, zack greinke, David price, Chris Sale, gerrit cole, even kluber for a 5 year stretch.
Just want to give honorable mention to Adam wainwright who won 19 and 20 games in 2009 and 2010 and 2012 to 2013 and also going 17-7 in 2022 at like age 40!!!!
If you go by peak Lincecum had an amazing peak but if you go by the whole of the 2000's he doesn't belong anywhere on this list. here's my ranking for the top pitchers of the century so far, not by peak but by overall production. 1. Clayton Kershaw 2. Justin Verlander 3. Max Scherzer 4. CC Sabathia 5. Roy Halladay 6. Randy Johnson 7. Johan Santana 8. Pedro Martinez 9. Felix Hernandez 10. Zach Greinke 11. Mark Buehrle 12. Jacob DeGrom 13. Chris Sale 14. David Price 15. Cole Hamels 16. Roy Oswalt 17. Maddison Bumgarner 18. Bartolo Colon 19. Adam Wainwright 20. Tim Hudson 21. Cliff Lee 22. Andy Pettit 23. Mike Mussina 24. John Lester 25. Gerritt Cole 26. Curt Schilling 27. Roger Clemens 28. Chris Carpenter 29. Jake Peavy 30. John Lackey All these players had better careers then Tim Lincecum during the 00's. Tim is absolutely one of my favorites growing up, I have his jersey which is more then I can say for all but 3 other players on this list but he didn't do it long enough to be up there with these guys. (let me know if I missed anybody or if you have any problems with my rankings)
Degrom is hands down best pitcher right now. But he has not been there for that long. That’s why he’s not really in this list because all of these guys have paved a way for the pitchers of today
I understand why they mean. By 2000s and up. But let's not forget roger clemens put some serious numbers 2000-2005 even led the league in era twice. But no argument on number 1.
If Roy Halladay isn't number 1 these guys need to rethink everything they do. cause the guy dominated the AL east with against those stacked Yankee and Red Sox teams. even after he got traded to the Phillies he dominated the NL threw a no no in his first ever playoff appearance and World Series champion edit: Kershaw is not a 2000s pitcher 😂😂😂 and no diss to Kersh cause he's a stud but I'm taking Doc any day no matter the condition over Kersh
Give me a 3 yest stretch or even a single season of Doc's career that was better then Kershaws... your a fucking moron if you take him higher... many people think Kershaw is a top 5 if not top 3 pitcher ever due to his numbers
Buddy, you’re entire comment just reeks of meaningless conjecture and personal feelings, there is literally zero statistical justification for preferring Doc over Kershaw no matter what. Kershaw blows him out of the water in ERA (not close), Kershaw strikes out wayyyyy more batters which means u gotta worry less abt potential defense mishaps costing outs, he gives up much less hits than doc ever did, and in 2013-2016, particularly 2014, Kershaw May have been the best pitcher ever. I’m not a dodgers fan but just someone who can look at objective data and say yep, this dudes the best. If you don’t like the eye test of those basic stats, Kershaw kills Doc in ERA+ which accounts for the average pitcher at the time and ballparks so itd account for your stuff about the AL East, this is just a cringe take man, Regarding the 2000s stuff, you’re comment that Kershaw isn’t a 2000s is pretty stupid considering the majority of both lists in the video consisted of players who’s careers have been in the 2010s, obviously they actually meant 21st century
2000s and 2010s? How is Randy Johnson and Roy Halladay(RIP) mentioned and not Pedro? From 2000 to 2003 he was by far the best and pitched one of the best seasons of all time.(the other was him in 99)
Yeah Im not sure how Grienke didn't make either list. Lincecum was the most dominant pitcher in a short span Ive ever seen, but he's not a HOFer. Johnson is one of the best ever, but this is post 2000. King Felix has almost no shot at the HOF and CC is a fringe HOF guy...all Grienke needs is another solid year or two more ok years and he's a HOF lock...
OMG!! In this top they both ignored Johan Santana JAJAJAJAJA 2 Cy young (not to mention that 2 were stolen), 1 triple crown and the best pitcher of his time.
Peak effectiveness via Three True Outcomes Dominance, Starters: Kershaw Pedro Randy Scherzer DeGrom Verlander Bieber Koufax Sale Lincecum Cole Bauer Syndergaard Arrieta Ryan Glasnow Snell J.R. Richard Sam McDowell Clemens
@@nathanbarnes9373 Yeah because Koufax and Ryan and Richard and McDowell all pitched then even if they were dead. I mean read the first line. You want to add Tom Griffin and Bob Veale, I’m all in.
Degrom still has to shine some more years to have a place in Cooperstown IMO. Kershaw???? he can retire now if he wants to, he's got a place in Cooperstown for sure.
So Bumgarner helps SF win 3 World Series Championships and now he's forgotten? Is R Westbrook better than K Leonard or K Durant because he averaged a triple double a few times during the regular season? Baseball analytics has to evolve and take into account the importance of playoff games.
Exactly! To not factor in playing to win or go home, you basically are saying you don’t care about competing when it really matters. To your point about Madbum, Lincecum deserves to be ranked even higher with his post-season numbers.
