I grew my hair back after I quit memory overclocking as a hobby. Went from a Norwood 3 to Norwood 1. My blood pressure is down to manageable levels too.
Can't believe I've been throwing my money down the drain on Propecia and Minoxidil when quitting overclocking would have been the ultimate hair loss cure all along!
Are there even eight 2 dim z790 boards because I don't think this type of overclock makes sense on 4 dim board. Z690 unify could work also but still from 690 lineup
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I know that extremely well when I built my wife's pc tforce 7200 wouldn't even post on z790 hero let alone pass stress tests
@@ChrispyNut I see people all over Twitter/Reddit/other forums claiming they are running DDR5-8400+ stable, some even claim DDR5-9000+ stable. Would suspect they are likely lying or they aren't stress testing the RAM hard enough or long enough.
@@GhostMotley Considering most people don't even realize memory in general can have silent memory errors and even attempt to correct it many times a day... I'm gonna guess most people don't understand what perfect system stability looks like and how to test it
It's a therapy session. I feel him. I remember when I tried to overclock DDR4 on X99 when it came out. Lost my sanity for months. When I upgraded from that system to the Z390, I didn't even want to overclock the memory. I just set the XMP and forget it...
Man, I've been trying for 4 days to get DDR5 7200 working on my 13900k on a MSI Z690a. I've been experiencing the exact same insanity as you where after dialing in sweet spot voltages, VST will increase and increase in stable duration until all the sudden it hits a brick wall. Then I change 0.05V and it fails instantly. Im starting to believe that DDR5 on 13th Gen has numerous local minima of voltages which sort of work. Which is hell for optimization. In other words 1.35 cpuVDD2 and 1.45 cpu VDDQ work well, but then nearby voltages don't work at all. But then 1.41cpu VDD2 and 1.53VDDQ also work pretty well, but 1.42 or 1.4 throws errors in seconds.
Have you tried increasing Vpp voltage? I was wondering if that has an impact on stability. I hit a wall with 4x16gb corsair 5600 vengeance on a msi z690 torpedo ekx with 13700k at 5600. Finally managed to get to 5866 by upping Vpp on ram and passed testmem5
@@darkon81c @darkon81c Yeah man, trust me I tried everything. I basically scoured Buildzoid's entire z690 z790 videos and tried everything I saw he ever touched, and then touched stuff that he didn't touch. Vccin, Vpp, PLL voltages. Raised cpu vcore, reduced ring clock, tried different LLC settings. Later I even got crazy and started messing with DRAM voltage switching frequencies and like I mentioned, I found a couple random sweet spots which could pass 2 or 3 iterations of VST with switching frequency raised. About the only thing I didn't try was changing cpu mounting pressure or cooler mounting pressure, but I'm just done with the headache of testing and validating whether or not it actually does anything or if I just randomly get lucky. Like BZ said, it would randomly be semi stable(pass VST for a few iterations, and do so again when I try again without restarting), then after a few restarts or the next day I would load the EXACT SAME settings and they would just not work.
Update: On 7000MHz, just had it pass 100 iterations of VST, and 400% hci memtest. Then restarted and it crashed instantly when I tried it the next morning.
Great video's love the deep dive, one of the few channels that actually have street cred with components. I can tell your pissed when the "kermit" voice rears its head - its all good. Thanks for the great content!
Buildzoid, what's your thoughts 13gen with ddr4? I'm running a 13700kf with 3200 Cl14 Samsung b-die and it's actually and using your videos has helped heaps to make the system faster 👍🦅
What I've found is that you can find meta-stable VCCSA/IMC VDD2 settings that will randomly break and that a truly stable configuration will be completely different. E.g (1.2 VCCSA/1.5VDD2 metastable, but 1.0 VCCSA/1.4VDD2 stable @7200 dual-rank)
Thank you. That video pushed me into the right direction. Tried 3 days to get my 7800 mhz a-dies to work. Same experience with random success, fails etc wirhout changing anything. Then tried your adviced and went down to 6600mhz but with cl30-38-38-28. Reduced latency massively compared to my old 6.6/c32 corsair kit, raised bandwith by 10% and it is reproduceable rockstable. 14700kf/z790-e strix/TG Delta 7800 2x16
Love your content. Friend and myself both have almost identical setups and we maxed out at 7800 with the tightest timings we could manage on a z790 maximus hero. 8000 was impossible to stabilize. Same experience. Personally I was never able to get anything above 7400 stable until I purchased a 13900ks. I suppose the memory controller on the ks is indirectly binned because of the seeming correlation between the p core SP score and the strength of the memory controller, but who really knows. I also had to purchase custom heat sinks for the ram to keep it cool enough to remain stable with high trefi timing.
thank you for this post. im running a i7 13700k (with hero z790) and stable at @7400, but @7600 it falls of a cliff. my ram is simply too fancy for my cpu chip. Z5 trident, its rated at 7800 at 1.45v 36... i guess there is maybe some tiny room left on the timings. but the frequency seems borked at these speeds. cant run any faster than this. Seems like what you say is happening. I read another update from a person that tested allot 13900k chips. They found 1/15 runs 7800 or 7800+. So 1 in 15!!! I guess ks chips are nicer. Lol. Ill be fine at 7400 for now. Just happy its stable.
@@Ks-zz9lh yeah absolutely. You'll gain more from tightening the timings than increasing the frequency but 7800 is possible with a very very select handful of motherboards. The ONLY board I know of that consistently hits 8000+ is the z790 apex. I'd also HIGHLY recommend you do NOT run an I9 wide open on stress tests like linpak. I degraded my own 13900k screwing around and I found out. Didn't take months, or weeks or even days. It took 5 hours running aida64 extreme at 290w and from that point forward, I had to use 1.35v on the vcore to stabilize the CPU @ 5.6ghz where as before it was stable at 1.28v. Almost NOBODY is going to tell you this, but truly, watch the the wattage at extended periods. Strongly recommend you keep it under 300w
@@Unobserved07 holy moly that is a horror story of its own.. I stay away from p95, linpack, etc.. those ultra heavy things I'd never see in real life usage.. but that quick deterioration is crazy considering the voltage you mentioned to start isn't even that high. Does gaming with a 13900 ever get that high wattage? If you overclock and are at like 1.3v on an overclock, and play games for like 8 hours... that gonna degrade? By restraining it, would that mean keeping your overclock settings but just limiting its power limit settings to like 253w?
@@Unobserved07so are you saying simply running 300+ W for extended periods by itself degrades the CPU? Even if the temps are kept in control? Or is it just because 300W usually means insane heat?
@bulldzoid, i know this is very dumb but that's why we are here. So how good or bad would be true ECC memory be to overclock? My rational is that very good ECC memory should beat non ECC if all is equal (what will not be) be higher overclockable because of the extra die and ECC feature, so it can easily correct single bit flips and even double bit flips with extra latency, also ECC memory makes it easy for the os to count errors without needing to stress test and long term, so did you try overclocking ECC ram and how well did it work?
This is exactly what i've found. It's is basically impossible to say that a 13Th gen platform is stable. it's random and got me crazy for months... i've tested 7 13900k 3 13900ks 3 PSU 4 MB and.... 9 ddr5 kit.
A 10900k with CL14 memory is much snappier than any DDR5 kit. You can not only see it but feel it. lol. I went from 45ns with a 10900k to 64 ns with this DDR5 Kit with the 13700KF. My benchmarks went down instead of up with DDR4 CL14 memory 3400 (interconnect at full speed stable) where as the DDR5 with the 13700KF I am stuck at half the interconnect speed causing much higher latency.
@@benjy117 it's always the same thing. a new tech in the early stage "aka for early adopters" is overpriced and not good at all at least for 2/3 gen. Ddr5 is a scam. CPU memory controller can't handle it. A waste of money.
@@benjy117Tech Yes City seems to confirm this in his latest videos. He says he's noticing weird lag in Windows and his video editor with 13900k that wasn't there with 10900k.
Hey Mate! Thanks so much for this video! I've been pulling my hair out with my Z790 Aorus Master and i9-13900k. I've been running Corsair 6200 C36 kit 2x16GB for some time. XMP was working fine and I had it OC-ed to stable 6600 34-39-39-38 @1.35V. It's been running like this for half a year. Now it suddenly stopped working, shortly after installing newest firmware for the mobo (to fix vulnerability). The kit still works at JEDEC spec, but the XMP profile or anything fails mem training. I've been trying to downgrade uefi, but it didn't help. Kit doesn't work outside JEDEC spec. I am now trying G.Skill 7800 36-46-46-125 @ 1.45V. I suspected it might not work and I was correct. The XMP runs Windows only, even memtest fails. I am now trying to tune it at 7200 but I still struggle to get it working stable. Your video has explained all my issues with system working stable and then after reboot failing same tests it has passed. It is so goddamn inconsistent. It runs for hours, all tests done. Then after power cycle it crashes first minute of memtest! Thanks for your constant work!
How would DDR5 with ddr4 ish frequencies but tightly tuned timings run? Would it scale like that? for example on ryzen 7000, instead of tuning 6000cl32 whatever, how about 3600cl12?(14?) is that doable? especially when flck runs 1:1.
Apparently the Final Fantasy XIV (specifically with VR mod in mind) is a potentially nice memory benchmark (it seems to scale with cpu and ram speed very well). Just throwing it out there, I haven't tested yet if it's just latency or bandwidth matters too. Thing with the vr mod is dropping fps below double the refresh rate of the headset causes severe stutters so even a small difference can act like a pass/fail test there.
Hey Buildzoid. Can you test Latencymon on one of your z790 systems? I am finding I cannot run it without a system clock watchdog blue screen or just total system freeze.. on multiple mobos AND sticks of memory at stock stettings.
I've had similar issues with my 13900ks with mounting pressure. I put on a contact frame and oh man..... i had to remount 5-6 times with different levels of torque on the frame and cooler to get decent timings and the stability can change day by day. absolute nightmare and i can't even tell if the IMC bin on my CPU is trash, my MB is trash or my ram is trash because i'm getting random errors no matter what I try
I’m curious as to what speed that matters at? I’m not an ocerclocker I just want to know for reference and buying decisions. You say right timings but do you mean at any speed or 7200 plus?
@@nathanwhite617 7200 is very very difficult to again in my experience with a 4 dimm motherboard. If you're not buying a board specifically meant for ram OCing(more than $250), 7200 will take you days probably. That being said, 7000 could be easy or hard depending on silicon lottery luck. I don't know this for sure(this is speculation on my part having used 1 cpu, 2 ram kits, and 2 boards), but based on my experience I feel 6800 should be attainable for most systems as long as you get M die.
YES HOW THE HELL DO WE FIGURE THIS OUT? My main dev machine kept having random crashes of all types of software and I looked into it - spend all this time testing RAM and I wasn't even trying to overclock it Just run it at 3600. I ran 128 GB fine at 4400 but when the degradation finally reached a critical point I had to wipe everything. Now I can't even reinstall anything until I figure out why I'm getting errors on a fresh installed windows (from a clean windowsUSB made another computer) I moved out away from my kids so I could build this and now I'm f****** stuck in the water. And I don't have the money to just replace the motherboard CPU and RAM and then sort it out later
Hi, I'm currently moving from FX8350 to AM5 socket (it's about time), slowly buying parts and the biggest dilemma I've got is which motherboard should I get. I want it to be future proof with pcie 5.0 and have ability to overclock in the furure without spending fortune and problem I've got is with power stages. How big of a difference will I have in couple of years with 12+2 vs 16+2. Im thinking about Asus Rog Strix B650E E vs F.
It doest matter if you have 12+2 or 16+2 phase. I am running an undervolted 7950X with 12+2(MSI b650 Mag Mortar) and vrm temps are fine. I get it you want to overclock but you dont need overclock these nowadays. It need undervolt because if you dont it will throttling at 95 degree c and you get least perf. bios still need to mature, 7000 series still a beta test...dont expect 6000MHz memory stable with the latest beta bios... If you want good price/perf get an AM4 platform with 5800X3D and call it a day. I would not buy AM5 for Pcie 5.0 and 7000 is expensive and still need to mature.
What about creating some kind of device which will go and brute force with every possible or limited amount of tests and then output you information which configuration will work stable - yeah, I know it would take ages to test, but you could test multiple configurations at the same time or find best one with your PC.
People have talked about this forever. I recall some crude attempts but it's really just not practical. It would need to be tuned to work with specific bios, able detect boot failures then manually reset or even clear cmos. Then it would need to interpret the stress test output while simultaneously able to reset Windows if it locks up. That's assuming there's minimal logic and it's just adjusting one arbitrary value at a time which is only so helpful anyway. So yeah, feel free to tackle that if you want.
Well, I've been saying pushing limits is waste of time since ages, because you see marginal gains if at all and it's ludicrously hard to stabilize it. I never get greedy, do to a point where it's fast to do vs where I get most of the performance gains over stock. As result, never felt like wasting time nor felt like leaving meaningful performance gains on the table, because if gains are like 1% - that's literally test to test variance - a margin of error worth gains. Sure, for competitive overclocking the perspective is obviously different, but alse stability is not really relevant further than completing a benchmark and recording the scores.
I feel so vindicated, I'm on DDR4 but I've been experiencing the exact same thing pushing 2xDR 4133 Gear 1 on my 13700K. Stability tests seem to be completely random: VST will pass for an hour and TM5 will fail in 4 minutes on the same settings TM5 will pass 32 cycles of Absolut and VST will BSOD in 4 seconds on the same settings TM5 will pass 32 cycles of Absolut and HCI will get 1 error at 1500% No combinations of voltages, RTTs, etc. achieve 100% stability like I'm used to I thought I was just doing something wrong, but I'm so glad I'm not alone. I'm ready to just daily a 99% stable system instead of 100%. Stability just seems too random to dream of 100%!
Boot - to - boot stability is something that needs to be confirmed with ddr5, and extreme cases confirming it even with cmos reset to apply the same profile. Signal integrity changes from boot to boot/cold boot, and all of those little things on an electrical level change. I experienced the same thing trying to stabilize simply XMP. Pass Tm5, Vst, Vt3, 2.5b, over and over. Shut down and boot the next day? Error. The closest ive been so far is by actually reducing the voltages below xmp, and that yielded a series of boot, pass, shut down, wait hours, boot, pass. 3 times over.
I had a similar issue with my old z690 and 12900k... changed out my board haven't had this issue since... one day it would be fine next time i did tweaking id get errors on the same settings... went with the unify x from msi and all my random instabilities went away now i can leave test mem 5... and prime 95 small ffts on for long peroids... before it would bsod on most stress tests or throw up errors.. honestly i think its a motherboard issue i could throw insane voltages at it and still couldn't get the ram fully stable... or it wouldn't throw up errors for a week then they would return... i was pulling my hair out just like you are haha... its worth you trying the apex z790 or unify z790... (if you are already one one ignore me) the unify x boards from msi are great for getting ram stable on intel.
I feel you my man. I coudn't make your timings (HWU video and your "Easily improve your DDR5 XMP's performance", both) run on my 6200 Patriot set. And at the same time it is rock stable on 7000 with stock 7000 Patriot timings. Now I'm thinking about droping it to 6000 and trying again...
His timings are extremely aggressive. Just leave everything default except for tREFI (don’t increase past ~15,000). TRDRDsg = min floor 8 TWRWRsg = min floor 16 Leave the rest default. There’s no tangible difference in performance.
@@bronsondixon4747 Lowered it to 6800 and tried to tune a lil. Basically moved all timings halfway from stock to buildzoids. tREFI 32000 Stable. Will work from here.
Ok now that I have watched the video, and I really want DDR5 for some reason, can you make a video for recommended 6800 timings? I am not a hardcore guy, just want some timings to plug into my future Intel system.
Hi Buildzoid and community! Sorry for an off topic question, but because this videos is about strange behavior of Intel mc it reminded me about the other strange thing with AMD Zen 4. I've been able to oc and stabilize my hynix m die 5600 36-38-38-38-80-118 to 6200 32-37-37-37-28-40 with tight secondary and tertiari timings (tighter or same as in your hynix guide), but I have a huge difference in read/copy and write speed in Aida64 now. 95 Gb/s write and 64 Gb/s read/copy to be presice. My CPU is 7600X, Mb is Asus Rog Strix B650E-E. I've read almost all forums and guides, but without success. Several people said I should try tuning my Proc ODT or Rtt settings or MEM VDD(Q) (currently it's set to 1.25), but it didn't help (or I'm just really bad). Do you have any tips or ideas? Thank you in advance!
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Wow that was quick! Thanks a lot! So everything is fine? Is there any benchmark I can run to verify my overclocking is meaningful? Because Aida didn't show any difference in read speed between 6000 with auto timings and 6200 with tuned ones.
@@ruslan_riazantsev y-cruncher is a good indicator on terms of compute memory performance and frame time stability in games tends to see considerable improvement from tighter memory timings, so running game benchmarks is also a good way to check. For games, you probably won't see a big difference in average FPS, but 1% lows should be a little better.
Zen3 APUs can shoot beyond 2500 stable that just needs dumb levels of VSoC. Zen1 can almost touch 2000 but it has to be very certain RAM, board (not every cheap bucket fits) and lucky silicon
I have the Z690 Unify-X and a 12900K with some somewhat tuned 6400Mhz... I was considering getting the 13900K to push the memory further, but I wasn't sure if I needed a Z790 mobo. After this video tho, it seems like chasing the dragon. Do you need a Z790 to approach 7200?
I'm running 7600c32 on the unify-x with a-die. 8000 boots and can sometimes pass some things, but beyond 7600 it runs into the same instability that Buildzoid is experiencing.
good question. I'm in a similar position: Z690 Carbon w/i9-12900 , intending to upgrade to 13900K but don't know if the mobo will handle higher RAM speeds. At least there'd be the extra performance from 8 more E-cores...
Yeah, DDR5 and 13th gen are cursed. 13900k with Z790 Apex here, currently trying to get 7000 stable, because everything above 7200 causes issues 💀 And that with G.Skill 7600 sticks. So close to selling my Apex and going back to DDR4. And my MC SP of 70 probably doesn't help here either, but still...
Yeah think a lot of it is just silicon lottery of the IMC. I bought a second 13900KS and after my first wasn't stable at 6800Mhz DR 2x32GB in my Z790 Apex. My new KS is able to do 7200Mhz but it's unstable randomly like in this video :
Considering the data rate of ddr5 its very possible the motherboard manufacturers are doing an abysmal job on the board layout. Do motherboards usually spec highest ddr rate? Or provide data on their own certification of those paths?
I totally feel your pain. Got exactly the same issue with DR 2x32GB at 7200C30 on apex z790. Some reboots no VST or MT5 issues other times it just errors instantly. I think the training on the edge is super inconsistent when it comes to ODT but on the apex there's no way to see what the values being set are :(
Does it run okay at like 7000C34? I’ve been considering changing up motherboards to a 2 DIMM. I’m running Z790 Strix E with 2x32GB at 6600C32 everything totally stable. My goal is 7200C34 on an Apex but now you’ve got me doubting that.
@@bronsondixon4747 I'm sure you'd be in with a chance at getting 7200C34 but not sure it's worth an upgrade. I think it's just luck whether you have an IMC that can do the high speeds. No amount of tweaking can get you that much of a bump in extra Mhz other than switching out for another CPU (which I've done once already as 6800 wasn't even possible).
@@djangoofyork yeah, I’m probably not going to change it out. Was considering doing an all out build with the 13900KS + Apex but I’ll just wait until Raptor Lake refresh.
is everyone locking down iol and rtl? mine will change to unstable 1 in 5 boots if i dont lock it down. im at the limit of my ddr4 tho so different memory
I can attest DDR5 stability is very random on Intel 13th Gen at XMP. I tried 4 different kits ranging from 6000 to 7200 and even tried some manual tweaks and downclocks across 4 different Asus Z790 mobos and all kits not totally stable as random WHEA or BSOD in OCCT Large Data Set Variable Test. Never happens when on auto which gimps RAM to 4800 in Gear 2. DDR4 at XMOP and tight timings is fully stable. Even DDR4 4000 at Gear 1 is fully stable across last CPU and 4300 CL16 almost or maybe even fully stable with 1.33 VCCSA passing all tests so far. DDR5 stability is a mess on Intel 13th Gen.
Sounds like intel has cut out internal error correction stuff to get higher max speed out of the controller, while AMD has internal error correction that end up capping max speed? (like amd does on their infinifabric also) And then intel has ended up with some design issue that sometimes creates random errors, that then just get passed on to the cpu.
My last experience trying to get high RAM speeds going ended with a corrupted BIOS unable to even post anymore. To my luck it was dual BIOS and i was able to flash it back but at that point i knew i dont want any more of that...
@@pcoverthink Some Gigabyte DDR3 boards just had a tendency to corrupt BIOS. Which is probably why at the time gigabyte had dual bios on pretty much every board. I haven't heard of it or seen it on any other board.
In general usage there is no issue but When i play some games like doom eternal pc suddenly freeze and buzzing sound appear .or alt tabbing when i am in game .cant control anything and ı have to do hard reset. Then i have started testing on prime 95 blend test pc freeze again.seperately tested each one passed except memory controller freeze again if it is because of this what should i do should i change my mobo or cpu i dont even know can you help me ? My system Msi pro z690a wifi mobo i5 12600k Asus rtx 3080 850w ttake psu Samsung pro ssd By the way thermals For cpu 61 max Gpu 66
I have Intel 13700K, Asus ROG Strix z790-e, DDR5 Kingston Fury Renegate 6400 CL32. I have no overclock experience. I spent much time to overclock the memory reading guides. Run the same problem: one day tests are passed OK, next day errors come. Tired and returned to the XMP profile. Stability is much more important than additional percents of perfomance. Overall system perfomance is great anyway.
My 8,000 speed GSkill DDR5 memory kit is working on my ASUS Apex Z790 Mobo, pared with the 13900K. Didn’t have to do anything but have the latest Bios and apply XMP profile and that’s it. I do have a Fan mounted over the top of the 2 dim sticks running at 1,000RPM. I have a Gen 5 NVME also that can get quite toasty too so I mounted another fan blowing on that even though it has a double sided heatsink. I think I’m going to eventually get me a Chiller and start water blocking the CPU and GPU on any future PC builds. It’s the way to go unless these chip makers start delivering cooler running CPUs.
I feel your pains, I have a z790 Strix with a I9 13th Gen & 4 DDR5 TForce 6200 chips. It will run all 4 with no XMP at 4800 no issues. But if I try XMP1 wont even post, XMP 2 will post and run for awhile and randomly 10 min or 10 hours later will become unstable lol. I'd be happy if I could just get the 6200 but haven't had time to adjust with it. Why add 4 slots if the manufactory isn't going to make them usable... "oh but one day 5 years from now it might work"
44:28 got stable 7400 on z690 master with 12600k, very good board. It has magic ODT setup 60/80/160/160/80 While Unify-X + 13600k 7600 max stable with one kit of memory, but with others 7466
We recently designed an AMD 7940HS system and run it at 45w, 54w, and 65watts and plugged in the 48GB DDR4-5600 DIMMs to get 96GB of memory. The memory runs at lower than 70c max temp and works great. We then designed an Intel 13th Gen i9-13900H system running at 45w, 55w, and 64w (speed doesn't matter regarding the problem) and plugged in those same 48GB DDR5-3600 DIMMs into it and they run at over 100c, even if we slow the CPU wattage to 45w. In fact, it was over 120c and we did a BIOS update that lowered it closer to 100c. Plugging 32GB DDR5-5600 DIMMs into the Intel motherboard lowers the temps to unver 70c. So for some reason, the BIOS is programming some register combination weirdly due to the timings is reads out of the 48GB DIMMs and just cooks the DIMMs. Thank you for this video as we are going to use Mem TweakIt to read the register settings with the 32GB DIMMs installed and program the registers identically on the 48GB DIMMs and see if the temps come down
I had the same problems, it was due to the temperatures - adies simply close at a certain temperature and do what they want , I have lowered my temperatures below 40 degrees and all the problems have disappeared. - i use karhu (10.000%) & ycruncher vst @8000mhz and its stable with z790 apex
the z790 apex , and the evga 790 kingpin can both do this - are only limited by heat, the ram kit is rather less the problem - try to lower the temperature. good luck and have fun :) i had no problems with the heat on my mdie kit but adies are bitchy.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I think it would be genuinely interesting if you just set up a little small water loop just for memory on your bench. I think it would be worthwhile for the amount of time and energy you spend doing this lately. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. Just a cheap 4dimm block, some spreaders, a 120mm rad and a pump/res (and obligatory tubing/fittings). Just a thought. You will still run into trouble of course with the god forsaken ddr5 memory controller, but it is much more manageable until the limits are really pushed.
You’re quite correct. 8000 was totally broken on my 690 Dark as well. The 790 Apex will get you there though. It’s inexplicably good. I don’t know what ASUS did to engineer it but it’s basically sorcery.
@@princekittipon6510No shot. And part of it is poor BIOS support. My Hero has BIOS 0008 and 0032. It’s no Apex, but these two revisions make it a respectable offering.
@@OnyxReXtNIt’s not the main factor. 4-DIMM is fine if you know what you’re doing. It’s not a majorly different experience when you’re using a competent sample. Some people get absolutely godawful cursed PCBs and I feel for them. The Hero sample I got is an absolute monster tbh. It makes the 690 Tachyon I tested look foolish. Compared to my old 690 Dark it’s sort of a toss up.
@@OnyxReXtN i have g skill 6400 32-39 A die. And i dont see any difference between 8000and 6400. Why are you guys overclocking again? Im not being sarcastic. Just curious
I’m running 8200 on a 13900 KS .Z790 tachyon board.Run memtest for hours y-cruncher .All pass no problems.I also had a 13900K cpu same board and memory sticks was absolutely terrible experience same problem’s he has in this video .13900K biscuits score was 88.13900KS biscuit score 98+.Night and day difference.
I totally feel this pain, using a contact frame instead of Intel ILM, I can't do freaking XMP6000 without increasing a couple voltages... Contact frame is the Thermalright on, which can't be overtightened (easily) and a waterblock isn't on insane tight. This 13700K should be able to be stable at XMP6000mhz no futzing around needed.
I have the z790 Godlike with a 13900K and im running 7400 34,44,44,28 along with a few other tweaked timings from your 7200 video. I cant seem to get 7600 xmp staple as of yet , but I havnt tried tweaking voltages. I use a Gskill 7600 mem kit but its a random stable thing that would run fine for hours some days and other 10 or 15 min. Also the game Returnal gets a 14fps avg boost @4k going from tuned 6000 to tuned 7000. It doubled going from 6400 to 7000 as 6400 got a 7fps boost over 6000. Grated when you going from 170 fps avg to 184 avg you dont see it unless you run the benchmark lol.
On the LGA1700 socket being really finnicky, I thought I was going insane when I first built my ADL system. Unify X, 12700k, 5600MTs Samsung ICs, and an EK waterblock. I messed around with memory and got something stable at 6200 but CPU thermals were just unacceptable. 90c cinebench at stock. I went out and got a torque wrench and tightened the water block to exactly the specified torque (off the top of my head I think it was 0.6Nm) and suddenly it doesn't boot. JEDEC settings? Didn't boot. I wound up having to loosen the water block and finally it worked, but strangely enough once it got cold outside it stopped booting again, but if I tried a few times (and let the CPU warm up from a few failed attempts) it would run rock solid after that. Later I installed a BIOS update and suddenly my CPU (stock everything except LLC) was using like 80mV less and my thermals were finally normal. Currently I have an issue where I cant set turbo frequency by core usage. I can set an all core frequency and I can set a per core max, but I cant do 2 at 52 and 8 at 51 or anything like that. Might be a new BIOS to fix it but I just don't feel like it anymore.
I don't understand one thing. Why don't people install the latest bios more often, especially when it comes to memory stability? I'm on a more dated platform on Z490. I have a 10850K and some samsung B-die ram. The system would refuse to boot at anything but XMP and even then some blue screens were in order. After flashing the latest bios, not only was it rock solid stable, I could tighten many timings dropping the latency by about 15ns total. Again, while being rock solid stable.
@@FOGoticus When I was doing the overclocking I made sure I always had the latest BIOS, but now that I have my daily settings dialed in it's kind of a hassle to migrate my settings to the next BIOS version, especially considering that it probably doesn't make anything faster. Sure I could update my bios and then spend 10 minutes setting all the v/f points and memory timings, but even if I can get it to turbo a single core to 52x, that's a
It's like an unstable FCLK ratio on Ryzen 1xxx-2xxx I remember gettings random seconds of stutters in games / training instabilities which lead to errors. Complete waste of time, it's just easier to lower the clocks
I don’t know if that can help ! Been trying to stabilize 6000mhz (4dims) coming from 5600mhz kingston (sk hynix) and for some reason once i f* up the voltage and it crashes, coming back to THE EXACT SAME settings that used to work no longer work UNLESS i reset the bios :))))) lol I’m using a 13700k paired to a Z690 aorus elite ax
I kept crashing at 7600MHz until I bought and installed Thermal Right contact frame, no issues anymore for 2 months. Intel's locking mechanism for the cpu is trash.
13900K with ASUS Strix Z790-E here ... I could not boot with G.Skill 7800MHz, only 7600MHz stable but with way to loose timings. The Kingston Fury Renegade 6400MHz is way faster with tuned timings (CL28 & more). There are times when I put the PC to sleep in WIndows and I find it completely shut down ... and times when it throws BSODs although it worked perfectly for more than 5 days.
this is my same issue when i was looking at ddr5 pricing for my new giga chad build. its just not justified the cost if there is no guarantee these speeds aren't going to cause weird issues or simply not work
Only MB I have been able to get 8000 stable is Z790 Apex and Z790 Tachyon. Z690 (Not 790) Tachyon did 8000, but tRCD and tRP had to be 55 or it simply would not pass y-cruncher. If your using a 4-slot MB...good luck! Probably never going to happen unless A) A lot of CPU SA/VDD2/TX voltage or B) the next CPU comes out with a better IMC. The sweet spot for my CPU is SA 1.25-1.3 - TX/VDD2 1.4V. This is good up to 8400. Might be just the limit of my IMC with daily safe voltages. Seems for the Z790 Apex, contact frame or stock LM makes no difference for max mem freq for me. I top out at the same.
The Asus Z790 APEX is amazing. Just got this board and set it up last night. Got my Gskill 7800 xmp kit stable at standard xmp settings. Haven’t had time to try to push it to 8000mhz. I’ll probably just leave it at 7800. I have it paired with a 13900ks. My SP score floats between 108-115 depending on the mood it’s in on boot up. p core sp score of 118.
@@hadleys.4869 you can do 8000. Set xmp 7800, change to 8000 leave all auto. On my z790 tachyon vdd2 is 1.47 and your mc might be 1.45 enough. Change dram voltage 1.52 and 1.5. Enable high band, low latency, low trip. Go to timing and trefi 65535 and right below 255. Change timing to 38-48-48-48. Make sure you do with clear comos and train mameory by disable fast boot. Couple restarts and shut down than go back to auto. Test and play. This is stable simple 8000 with 54 ns latency. It’s daily if you sre not gonna water. I am on water now so I am 8200
@@facegamefps6725 Yeah....Getting advice on YT is like getting advice at a bar. Might has well take a hammer to the computer. @Hadley S. go to a real forum for advice.
@@theodanielwollff why you care…?I tune my own and I can help people if I want to..matter of fact I will post video so z790 tachyon owners can do it easily. I will buy you hammer and you can destroy your own
Well if you just don't want to put in the the work to make it stable just say so -Some random redditor I see people saying 8000 is possible, but who knows what they consider stable. Maybe they are seeing OC records and not realizing they are on Ln2 or something.
I got told by a random on Chinese forum saying that the random instability is caused by IMC overheating. So CPU doesn't have temp sensor on IMC, and you won't know if it's over heating. HCI/yC VST will stress IMC pretty hard and overheats IMC -> instability. I too experience the randomness on 13700k + z690 Pro A + dual rank B-Die above 4000, but I don't want to delid the damn thing and get a direct die block just to test out if this is the case. I can settle on 5.5Ghz + 4000c14... with all that effort and money, it would probably end up with something like 5.6/5.7Ghz + 4266c15/c16, I cbf... Buildzoid maybe it's worth for you taking a look into this, you have much more hardware resource than me and have more enthusiast on it. I hope you can see my comment.
I think my asus prime x370 pro might be worse. Sometime i found settings that passed 400% hci memtest, but when i stopped the test my pc instantly crashed. I just gave up on going 100% stable ram, as i can see those memory tests make unrealistic conditions and making them stable doesn't mean its stable in my normal use. I have seen too how windows 10 just doesn't like unstable memory, it is way more likely to crash due to unstable memory, even running the same game and getting same fps may crash very soon on windows 10, but run fine for even long time on windows 7.
I think what you are dealing with is the ECC it self, the system may be producing hundreds to thousands of errors but as you know there is no way to you know in the way the ECC is implemented, it corrects them but some may pass or originate in a way that it can not correct them as it's a bit more limited than the traditional ECC modules, maybe 1% pass of them pass at any random time? This would require days of testing to reach a good measure. I read a year or two ago that the real reason for the ECC exist in DDR5 consumer modules it that the frequencies were so high, that it were naturally producing a lot more errors than on DDR4 and below. Pushing it to 8000 Mhz may push it even extreme that's goes beyond what the ECC can do for you. In such way that errors may be happening all the time at the background and at any random time some just goes through.
@@Mirage_Unknown Sorry for the long period to this answer, i forgot it. As far as i know, no, there is no way to disable it as it works as a complete and independent chip in the DDR5 memory that's targeted to the consumer. Servers may have with their full ECC support from the modules but they usually works at way lower speeds.
madness is not when you do that same thing over and over and expect different results, madness is when you do the same thing over and over and do get different results! thanks intel!
I've been looking at a 13900ks and Apex just so I can OC it since I want to use this system for a long time, but seeing this and the HU video on scaling I'm really questioning it :/
AMD has won me over this round. Sure, you can try your luck ordering multiple 13900K/KS to tip silicon and IMC lottery in your favor, put it on custom water to control the heat, disable e-cores to run 6.0GHz+ all-core, shell out even more cash for top tier DDR5, and then spend days or weeks dialing everything in to get that 5-15% victory over a 7950X3D (but still lose by 20% in some games where the V-cache rips). Or.... you can buy a 7950X3D, a $70 air cooler, grab whatever kit of semi-decent EXPO 6000MHz DDR5 is currently on sale, and haphazardly slap it together and end up within 5-15% of an expertly tuned 13th gen system. Don't get me wrong, I've loved OC'ing for the 20+ years I've been doing it, but the absolute hassle of min-maxing 13th gen versus what AM5 just does out of the box makes 13th gen seem very silly and masochistic to me.
I assume the z690 dark can hold better than a z790 hero… though it would be cool to see, yes yes… I know that the apex is better supposedly, but like you said the apex is not practical
When you benchmark or max out all 24 cores to 100%, how much power is going through the cpu? If it exceeds 125Watts it will degrade the cpu internal memory controller. It causes random ram I/O crashes, and it will also crash windows. Windows will crash randomly with a bug check, (drop to text mode and re-boots). The turbo mode is useless, as it says 253Watts for just 10milliseconds in datasheet, you may as well disable this feature. Ive seen others on you-tube posting the i913900k is too hot, The truth is, its hot because it is drawing too much power, and if its draws more than 125watts continuously it will degrade and destroy the cpu. Don't bother with an expensive cooling solution, as its not needed, reduce the power instead.
The socket mounting shit is a nightmare. Its bad enough that you have to think about and see how tight the cpu heatsink and all is for even temps, now you have thermalright or grizzly socket replacement thingies to make it flat, but those need specific torque and stuff.. now memory controller is affected by pressure.. christ
