RANTING about the worst? locomotive, and testing the double-observation trick... | Railroader Ep. 6 

I will never for the life of me understand why so many people are so staunchly, vehemently opposed to the idea of improving the railroad sim genre to the level of quality expected from flight and racing sims. Train games have been stagnant in player expectations for almost 20 years and as a result we are missing out on their full potential. It may cause some discomfort and ruffle some feathers, but we can only fix this rut that train games are in by avoiding complacency, evaluating current material and finding the ways in which it can be made better, and 3D asset quality is one of those fronts where a lot of improvement can be made.

So far as I'm aware, the point of having the double observation car setup is to get a single bonus while being able to run around the train and have the engine on the head end in both directions

I used to be shuttle driver for CSX (we were third party on a contract). I had to open and close every door. they were not aloud to touch it due to a previously reported injury. Even more comical was we were not aloud to use reverse while we had a crew on board. Someone backed into a curb and the engineer got months of worker's comp for a back injury! We had to hold the rear hatch of our minivans because someone got hit by a rear hatch(gate).

You mentioned an “engineering mindset,” and I think that’s the key here. The modeler clearly wasn’t using one. I bet it took him longer to make up the fictional pipe arrangement than it would have to just follow a drawing or a pair of reference photos. I know I work faster from good original sources than I do making things up, and I suspect that’s partly my very engineering-style mindset. And for anyone questioning why these details matter: IF FLIGHT SIM PLAYERS LOVE FULL-REALISM DCS ADD-ONS, WHY CAN’T RAILFANS HAVE THAT TOO?

Thing regarding the piping on the 4-6-2: there really hasn’t been anyone other than smokebox and maybe one other person who’s taken the time to sit down and actually plan out how these systems work on engines. I never really had that mindset with trains in games because no one ever does it right so why bother. I believe from what I’ve seen that can be another thing COS does to further educate people who want to know how these things function *and* operate in the real world.

Railroader takes place in the alternate universe where Nikola Tesla figured out wireless electrical transmission lmao

In the last tab in the preference window there is a slider for vehicle sway. You can reduce it to make the locos look normal when moving. Unless you like the mega sway.

Hyce remember, as in the HO world, so should the modelling world. 3 foot rule applies. When you look to close, you see the short cuts, missteps, etc. that the modeler made. Don't look too close.

So here's a video idea that I'd like to see: Trace out some of the accessory steam pipes, or air pipes, or electrical conduit on a locomotive or two at the museum, and show us how they're supposed to go, and what parts do what. I'd find it much more useful to see what a correct arrangement looks like rather than just several minutes of "this doesn't make sense". (What does a cross-compound air compressor actually look like, and why is it "cross-compound" and how does it work? You also mentioned "radiator piping", but what is it and what does it do? And so forth.) Also it would be interesting to have a comparison of some of the systems on CB&Q 5629 and on the small narrow-gauge engines.

Inget it Hyce. I'm a sailer and whenever games have sailing in it I get nitpicky too but it comes from a place of love about the subject.

I'm getting the LGL (laser-guided Lime) for the jokes, 3 so far are primed and ready for the Liming of Hyce. edit: when Hyce sounded displeased about the say I died of laughter almost immediately

The AI engineer (Al Inman as Kerbo calls him) does actually have a nice whistle quill when he wants to. And no “spicy hooks.” Now I can see why the piping on the pacific is maddening. Especially with IRL experience. (But there’s still a lot to be said for the many artistic hours put in.)

I can remember my favorite quote I ever heard was Will looking at the plumbing on the bachmann F scale offerings and saying "I don't think bachmann could plumb an outhouse.......". Same kind of stuff

Not really sure if you read these but. I really love the railroader series that you are doing. I watch it on my school account while I'm in school during my study hall on Thursday because I have a hour and a half to do nothing. And I always find myself chuckling/laughing at your story from the shops. Keep doing you Hyce!

Since you're doing scientific passenger things, I know passengers care a lot about the equipment condition of the train. You could see how the revenue changes with cars and locomotive at 100%, 90%, etc

You’re welcome for the Aspen Gold! I use it on my passenger cars too so I’m glad you like it

It’s kinda funny how Hyce is nit picking the plumbing on the model all while he’s damaging his rolling stock left and right 😂

I have been playing this game, alot, and im gonna say, this game is fun, and while most people find passenger boring, I personally find passenger to be the most lucrative and fun thing to run, especially in multiplayer. Due to just shenanigans and having a need for speed and power, I have gone 65 west bound through whittier and no spicy noises. as for pay, not alot west bound, but east bound, especially to sylva? I have gotten 1000 bucks at sylva from.... 400 something passengers? anywho, im loving the railroader content, keep up the awesome work

For the tiers -- when you pick one, you lock yourself there for 3 days (as far as I can tell), so when you unlocked Bryson, you picked T1 (instead of T2 or T3, as would've *potentially* been available, depending on your overall rating). You've serviced the industries 2 days now (well at 10:00 in anyway), so you should see an option for Tier2 tomorrow (to start servicing at T2 the day after). Granted, derailing the equipment probably isn't helping you much :) Oh captive jobs (50:00 ish) -- you get paid at midnight or thereabouts (just before you pay for your engineers / shop crews)

Hyce: "We're going to test the double obs car in a scientific way." Also Hyce: *tests it in a very cumbersome and convoluted way to avoid doing as much math as possible* Yep, he's an engineer.

Hey guys im not certain if Hyce loves Railroader and the people behind it or if hes an evil man that hates all train games and their models. I think Hyce needs to be more clear in future videos lololol. Im glad he's enjoying the game and giving credit and criticism where it's earned or needed. Let's hope the game gets even better as time progresses. Edit: The condition of the cars you own absolutely affects how u h you make. I noticed thst on both passenger and log trains with damaged versus undamaged cars.

I agree with your rant RE the piping and certainly feel for the 3D modellers. As an engineer/artist who likes trains, I've always wanted to design and draw my own choo-choos but it's so hard to find accurate instruction and references for how all the smaller details should look such that they could believably work (thus I don't draw many choo-choos, I don't want them to look wrong! 😢). So thanks for that little bit of tuition!

"Single tier"...well I guess you've limed me enough that I can lime you back! 😜 As far as the engine leaning so bad, I hear the Berk does it too. Just consider it to be an ES&DT-worthy drunken stumble down the line.

I enjoy how on the LS&I 2-8-0 the FWH is plumbed into the main res, because that’s definitely how that works.

You actually get paid very well for logs and pulpwood at the start of the next day

9:20 To be able to upgrade a contact tier, you have to have made 3 deliveries(those 100%s that are there) to the industry to give you the option. The rating depends on stuff I'm not sure about, could be damage caused, timeliness, and/or amount of cars, not sure about that.

Hey Hyce, I totally get your keen eye for details, but let's not sweat the small stuff when it comes to the Pacific. Sure, it's cool to dive into the specifics, but not everyone in the community might be as gung-ho about the nitty-gritty particulars. The Pacific is a gem in its own right, and sometimes, getting too bogged down in the minutiae can distract from the overall beauty and history it brings to the table. Let's keep things light and enjoy the collective love we all share for these incredible machines without going overboard on the seriousness of every last detail. After all, the joy of being a train enthusiast is in the shared enthusiasm and appreciation for these magnificent locomotives!

Logs and pulpwood pay at midnight; you can see them in the notification history (~) or in the financial ledger. I've actually noticed that even if you deliver 33 logs, sometimes the sawmill only pays you for 31 in a day, or the Sylva industries won't pay for the full 50 tons of pulpwood per car. Not entirely sure what that's about, but the notifs at midnight tell you how much material they're paying for. Loving the series so far; guests appearances would be a really fun way to grow the railroad. Looking forward to more shenanigans either way!

I have a term for all the piping you discussed, I call it "bullshit piping" and I'm guilty of having done this plenty a time in my early days of modelling before I knew what goes where! Sometimes if I build something _completely_ fantasy, I add a bit of BS pipe here and there for effect.😄

As a boiler maker, the complaint you have about pipes (22:00) is interesting, because all the power (steam) applications I've dealt with have had mandrel bent pipes that deliberately make multiple corners so thermal expansion, valve closing shocks ect all can be absorbed without stressing the joints (and so there aren't long enough straight runs to form steam hammer), rather than separate fittings on each bend. So whats modeled looked acceptable (if not exactly what you'd do IRL). What your saying is you'd expect older locomotives to use straight pipes fitted to the least number of cast joints to avoid cost/leaks? Headlights wise (1:06:30) railroads complain about steam train headlights basically because they where the older designs when they had diesel types to compare with, and to make matters worse lots of the previous flagships where in subideal repair, while the more recently built wartime (and interwar depression) steam trains where stripped down of "luxury" features to be cheaper, which often means bolt on features like lights, gauges and trims where removed or replaced by cheaper alternatives. A steam train headlight is a LOT more than a cars high beams, so people reading the difference to newer trains and thinking "steam train lights bad" are making the wrong comparisons in their heads.. but you would have seen the difference between modern mainline power when you where running the repair shop overnight and the railroad museum. Would be interested to know if the museums lights are as historic or if there is modern parts/processes/ideologies that might make a noticeable difference though as I've never dealt with that side.

Since I started watching your videos I've learned that there is so much more to steam than I ever thought there was and I can't wait learn more.

I’ve actually been to where the game is actually set. It’s now operated by a scenic railroad called the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad. The towns in the game are Bryson City, North Carolina, Nantahala, North Carolina, and Dillsboro, North Carolina. The GSMR now runs through that area, although it was originally the Southern Railway’s Murphy branch. Norfolk Southern sold the line to the GSMR sometime in the 1980s, and the GSMR has run the line ever since. They even have two steam locomotives; US Army s160 1702, and Southern Railway Ks-1 722. 1702 is currently operational, while 722 is currently being restored to operational capacity.

I think you need company and saftey rep for the higher tiers of contracts, also the log contract for the whittier sawmill pays a grand a day, and that's always nice

I am in a session with a buddy and we had our safety rating hit under 5%, i just dont remember how low, we might have hit 3%

Things I have noticed about passenger spawning: 1. Passengers spawn at intervals that are a little over five minutes apart, so annoyingly not quite twelve times per hour. I haven't yet been able to pin down a value that makes sense as a binary value. 2. Waiting passenger numbers will trim with the first spawn time after the hour. The "Wait 1 hour" button is NOT your friend here, as numbers will trim. Use the console's /wait command to use finer increments like 0.3 to allow boarding to happen before any despawning. 3. Passenger spawn amounts and maximum passengers waiting will fluctuate according to time of day. More in the morning and evening times, fewer in the middle of the day, and mostly dead in the middle of the night. As expected. On my present save I'm running a two passenger car train (max 120) and I have gotten $151 for 59 fares, so clearly the distance for the fare does matter. You might try loading at Sylva after 2PM with each car only taking passengers for a specific destination and not accepting more pax along the way to establish a baseline.

I've been running 5 locos on my Railroader game for a while now, and I know what you mean about "not enough me". Sometimes I feel like I'm juggling chainsaws! Oh, and btw I expanded out to Alarka Junction before buying the track to Sylva. I now have dedicated switchers at the major points (Dillsboro, East Whittier, Bryson) that handle cars in their immediate area. The East Whittier switcher also handles my log runs for the sawmill, for which I have two sets of 10 skeleton flats, plus it runs a string of pulpwood racks up there as needed. Still have only one through freight running each day; contemplating adding a second. And most days I have my passenger train make two full runs (Sylva-Alarka Junction and back). For the current day I'm thinking of doing three.

You had me running to check lubrication level 😂 love your videos as always Hyce be safe on the high iron

The amount of time to rivet count models before putting them in game would require a staff like the folks @ a certain warships game i used to play. I think ya may be a bit harsh on that front. Some folks, like myself, are learning how railroaders do what they do with movements of the freight. And how if ya miss a step, ya could add an hour to a job. 😮 This game is constantly reminding me to reset switches, set brakes, and fastest isnt always bestest. I appreciate your critiques of Railroader Prof, Hyce, i may be to old to be a real life railroader, but learning how the thing is done to the stuff so we can have the everyday essentials i like a lot.😊

Love your comments Hyce, I appreciate you being clear in your critique and how this is regardless a fun railroad management game! And no, no, no bad self talk :P

In fairness to the passenger loading - I'd be pretty pissed if I was on a train, sitting in a station, and they went "Nah, we're not going yet, we're gonna wait here for another hour to see if more folks show up" 😄

Started watching your channel a while back as youtube was on autoplay, came across one of your IRL videos, think it was one you guys were firing up for the first time or something like that. Ended up watching a few of your game streams, and now you have me convinced to get this game. It'll have to wait for a while till my birds stop dumping full bags of food on the floor, but hey, one day. I have zero knowledge about steam, so it'll get interesting for sure.

Hi Mark, I so enjoy watching you play Railroader and it is a great game for sure! But I also like hearing your constructive critiques of the engines. As you discuss the spurious piping and all that we are better able to analyze how these things are constructed and their function. Every part has a place and a reason for being. Because of you, I’ve learned so much and based on your chats I do homework and learn even more. The reason I watch your channel is to learn about steam choo choos and have fun along the way. So Professor your analytics are well said and most welcome. We can learn and brown a few choo choos while gaming along the way, what could be better! 😂 As always many thanks for all this and cheers to you Professor extraordinaire!

I think the exhaust of the feedwater hot water pump and the turbo booster pump would typically be plumbed into the feedwater heat HEX, and I guess you could include the air pumps, in that, but it's not prototypical of the Worthington units anyway. This is Elesco I think... they used the cylindrical HEX where Worthingtons had the coffin or the box top ones. I think the modeler got the pumps upside down or mirrored or flipped or something, then forgot to reconnect the plumbing in the right place. I get ya on the detail... I was asking about the FW heater on the Ding Dong Ditch engine you have... (I actually crawled up the side of one of the old Freedom Train Northerns that's parked outside in Baltimore this past summer to figure out what was going on up there, and my God does it vary engine to engine!)

I'm excited for the hairbrained science, that was my comment two videos ago about kicking the passenger cars with the double ended obs'. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and, as always, the quality entertainment!

35:50 casually kicking coaches presumably with passengers. This guy is gold 😂.

One of the worries with steam preservation is finding people who can work on them or know how to keep them going. There are generations of families working at Cass, and a lot of that knowledge has been passed down but some is unfortunately lost along the way. It is so important that whatever steam knowledge someone can provide, whether it be handed down through families, taught through working at preservation, or simply by Hyce conveying his knowledge to us RU-vid viewers, that we appreciate, encourage, and learn from those teachers. The future of steam is bright. The expansion and growth of steam preservation is so exciting, but with a lack of knowledgeable and passionate people to keep that light glowing, it can also be precarious.

You’re definitely right about this game being easy to play in the background. My gaming laptop doubles as my spare school laptop and I always find myself playing this game in the background during Kahoot games (and I still get in the top five every time)

two theories: 1: These seem like Assets bought from a 3D store, nothing wrong with that tbf, and Im obsessed with the game, but it would explain why the models are...ya know, not up to the simulator standard. maybe they will change if the dev team can get some of their own modelers on board. 2: Placeholder until they can get more modelers specifically for this job and refine it.

There's a setting in the menu you can turn down to reduce how much locomotives lean and sway. I forget what it's called but it is there i remember tinkering with it because i noticed the pacific wobbles a lot.

That poor modeler never thought somebody would actually trace the pipes 😅

you should use the smaller locos for the switching. maby try to get a glorified switcher for every location

Way behind, but regarding your rant about how the pipes make no sense: My job has some pressure vessels (oil/water separators) we take gas from and compress from about 35-40 psi up to about 130. The suction of that compressor has a scrubber vessel to catch any liquids that may be with the gas. That scrubber, by engineering design, has a drain that is tied back to the separator inlets with no pumps or anything, just reliant on pressure to move it. I don't know if you caught the problem yet, but basically, it's trying to use pressure to move liquids back to the same or, realistically, more pressure. Never gonna work. So we just have a container on the ground, piped to it, and empty it with a truck when it gets full.

Fun fact: the Berkshire likes to lean over like crazy as well.

There is a very valid reason to have the manual controls not be synced with the AI panel unless you click "Select" - So you can run two engines simultaneously. One runs on AI, and the other in your manual panel. Then, if you need to take over manual on the AI panel, clicking select switches so you have instant access to the engine controls.

if you want another good "where do these pipes go?" check out the pipes around the feed water heater and main res on the C-55, IIRC the main res pipe goes to the turret in the cab

Western north carolina. Technically where my part of the family is from.

I know its not too important but that 4-6-2 #5 i absolutely love the way it looks it brings me back to my childhood i grew up on canadian pacific #2317 and canadian national #3254 even tho #3254 is a 2-8-2 the locomotives still look very similar to each other. I just love the way they look/sound. Idk how to say it i rode on them and reading 425 and 2102 there amazing locomotives but nothing compared to those other two locomotives. If you ever want hyce i can probably get you cab rides in 2102 or 425 in time. Sorry for the rant but that locomotive takes me back to a wonderful childhood

I’m not sure if there are any narrow gauge duplexes, but it would be so cool to see one in game

Hyce... you gotta see the Berk with being drunk... it's funny and painful...

Hedley Lamar does say "voodoo"

I think one of the key issues around modeling a lot of this stuff is the lack of reference photos from quite a few of these units. While there are some that are based on preserved engines others are going off of crude diagrams. Part of me wants them to fix the models now and the other part of me wants them to add new equipment now and come back and fix the issues with the older stuff just before it is suppose to fully release.

I believe I read on the Railroader reddit, the P-43 isn't modeled after any specific locomotive, it is it's own design. I am sure they will most likely update all of the models eventually, as there are errors on just about every locomotive. I still think it's the best looking Locomotive in the game. The lean can be adjusted in the settings, I did find it leans quite a bit, I turned it almost off and it looks great when running

@41:03 I've seen a wiring conduit go through the coal pile on a locomotive irl

I'd enjoy playing on the ES&DT. I'm currently grinding with my own company the Chicanery & Southern.

Simple answer on the pacific, Bachmann

IDK I feel confident enough wiring a light through the coal pile. Coal is a bunch of carbon, after all, and there's this one Hungarian railroad safety film (but the kind with a narrative through-line baked in :P) about what happens when your shovel or pick has a bunch of coal dust on the wooden handle. I think I linked it in the Discord a trillion moons ago, but I just bumped it again in #youtube-discussion that I'm thinking about it again. Ground side of the circuit? uhhhhhhhhhhhh last wheelset? sketchy chain? idk this isn't what my EE degree is for

I cant wait til hyce reciews the berk, makes the pacific piping look like the sistine chapel

Starting to help out in the shops at Midwest Old Threshers. Only being a half hour drive it'd be stupid to not start.

You know what i totally agree with your "nitpicky-ness" lol, you know why? because you are now showing off that even though you're educating everyone who doesn't know much about the plumbing on steam locomotives, you're showing the detail the devs are willing to go on these locomotives, even though some of the pipes and the appliances are wrong, to have a train in that much detail is amazing, and this is why these videos are great (even though your a ding dong at times as you said) hehe, oh hey forgot to mention, when you move the reverser, watch the valve gear, it actually moves as you move the reverser to hook it up or to switch directions

Lol the Mr crabs I like money meanwhile the passenger train is yellow like SpongeBob lol 😂

ES&DT Train Crew time! for Science. use both Obs' cars and 1 Coach filled to capacity. this way you know the train is full

with an observation car on both ends you should put your locomotive in the middle and see if it doubles your bonus

There's a river right there. No need for no water

the train is now Durango & Silverton yellow. Lol

You really ought to expand your spine car fleet and get your tier up at the sawmill, at tier 4 I am bringing in something like $4,500-5,000 a day just from keeping the log pond stocked.

I tried it with a (Obs)(coach)(GP9)(coach)(Obs) arrangement and I couldn't tell. Mind you I only stopped at a few stations so not a huge sample size.

I think it would be alot of fun to play on the ES&DT

The amt of ppl gifted subs this past MonTueZuma is insane lol. The list grows 😂

Have no fear da T-12 boi wants to do the thing on the C&TS

Me any my friends did some work to find the price of passenger tickets in railroader. Nor matter what cost it was around $4.50 per ticket. When I put 4.50 in an inflation calculator from 1950 to present day, it ended up being around $63! I don’t know how much tickets cost back then, but I would think anywhere from $.50 to $2.25!

would love to play on the ES&DT! I'm overqualified (I've derailed 30 trains so far :P)

oh /rerail still works , you have to have the consist/car selected though

You should buy some signals, that'll give you a bunch of cars to take to Bryson

11:22 The Pacific was dancing like 346 up a hill

Another great railroader video, as you said i was definitely playing while listening to this. Keep up on the great effort you put into these videos ❤

Again, super late, and unsure if you can save/load in this way: Load a passenger train with people for one station, save it, and take the train. Unload while coupled, check money, load the exact same save, and try again uncoupled.

I'm wondering if they put in a game mechanic that if passengers have already boarded the train and you skip time does that effect the bonus with the observation car? That is one thing I was thinking about. The other possibility could be the condition of the cars be a factor in the bonus for the observation car? Need more science! Sounds like a great idea for more streams of Railroader!

Ill play on the ES&DT, looks like fun!

Pretty sure you can only change the contract tier when the previous one is about to end. So you have to wait for the contract to hit around 24h left on it and then you can choose another tier.

I don't have passengers AI (stop at the stations automatically as I see), don't understand why. Previous is set (I load new versions). May be I use Steam Italy? I don't find menù? The channel is wow, tnxs 🚂

Put the engine in the middle of the passenger train

I still very wanting for a replacement of TRAINZ. Only thing we have close based on modern gaming engines would be Railroads Online. This game is reasonable and not priced too high that most would enjoy it for what it is and not what it isn't. Think you touched on this at one point, but rather see this game be focused on model railroading and custom scenery/track design. Not sure we needed or wanted yet another 'game' vs. a true simulation/world builder. For that, I'd pay 60-100.00 USD. Hope your title will include a true open world and scenery tools/track tools.

So... Higher tiers I think you need to maintain a healthy performance rating by fulfilling passenger service, freight service and I believe safety rating 😅

Anyone else heard of the area west and somewhat south of Asheville NC? I'd swear one of the towns on here is vaguely familiar from one of my childhood vacations. Appalachia has some downright beautiful scenery!

I found a picture of the pioneer in a Book I own called Smithsonian Train the Definitive Visual History

When you mentioned that the dynamo needs conduit to power things, are locomotives like cars where the ground is run through the "body"?

Maybe if you drag a derailed car, the safety rating will drop faster? i.e. Die trying to deliver.

14:39 walking and jogging on ballast sucks

i imagine the hiring process of the ES&DT consists of walking into the office thunking your whisky flask down on the desk , and if its worn in enough, youre in.

hyce idk if anyone else noticed but i think hollifield heating oil got terminated by accident