Rare Little Known Facts about the 440 Six Pack / Six Barrel Engines! Mopar Rare Facts 

I’ve had both. I like the 6bbl just incase you get a little two rowdy. It’s way cheaper. People expect less from the 440 and it’s way easier to win more money. Make the race long enough for the hemi to get to its sweet spot or it won’t go as planned. Either one will school gsx 455 Buick don’t listen to the hype I’ve seen it done. Lol

Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

The 'CFM flow' of the carbs was rated by Holley the manufacturer of the carburetors. 2bbl's were rated at 3" of Hg and 4bbl's at 1.5" of Hg. 2bbl rating to 4bbl rating would be (for example) 1350 x .7071 = 954.585 cfm. The 1969 1/2 A12 cars had a standard 440 Magnum valvetrain as evidenced by the single bolt nylon coated cam drive. The cam, lifters and springs, were standard HP parts. They went to the 3 bolt double roller Hemi cam drive in 1970 in part because of the 310 lb Hemi valve springs. The Magnum springs were 256 lb. As far as those intakes, there were 2 manufactured by Edelbrock. The CH6B which was the Edelbrock made manifold used in 1969 production and for the "Hustle Stuff/DC' parts program and had 'CHRY 3412046' cast into it. The later Chrysler cast iron manifold, also initially offered via 'Hustle Stuff' (1970), was PN 2946275. The DP6B Low Deck manifold was only used through 'Hustle Stuff/DC' and was PN P3571051. As far as aluminum vs cast iron usage, had nothing to do with weather. (The aluminum intakes came with heat riser passages just like the iron ones). It was production and economics. It was faster and cheaper for Chrysler to produce the manifold in-house for higher production volume than to risk delays outsourcing. Initially when they rolled out the iron manifolds for the 1970 MY, being a new part, there were some problems with casting porosity and oil usage. Those '6bbl' rods are different than the Max Wedge rods and have a way higher 'forging' number. The Max Wedge rods, PN 2406886, had a bigger beam section at the small end, vs the '6bbl' rod 2951906 which had a wider beam all the way to the big end. There was a 'P Part' version of this rod with better metallurgy which had a forging number P4120516. It looked like the 6bbl rod but made of lighter higher strength steel (4140 or 4340) vs the 'std' 1053 of the stockers.

@@vincemajestyk9497 The Six Pack carbs were the same size bore and boosters as the 427 Corvette carbs. Buying the carbs from Holley does get the two barrel flow ratings stated, but the GM sources list the carbs as smaller, due to using 4 barrel level flow rating. I've never seen the Corvette carbs sold directly by Holley and I mean since the 1960's. The 1969 A12 engines did have the low taper lifters, which was the whole point of the limited number of them made. It was to test the wear of the low taper lifters with Street Hemi valve springs, before using them in the 1970 Street Hemi. I know the exhaust crossover is in the Six Pack intake, but there were complaints in cold weather with the aluminum intakes. It was later found the the early Six Pack carbs had a defect or design flaw. Originally it was thought the aluminum intake was the issue. The Six Pack connecting rods are not Max Wedge rods, which were heavier than Six Pack rods. The 1963 Chrysler 300J had a solid lifter 413, with improved intake ports, 1.74" exhaust valves, jam nuts on the adjustable rocker arms, though different from Max Wedge rockers and standard weight connecting rods, rated at 390 HP. The 1964 300K standard 413 was a 360 HP hydraulic lifter engine, but had an optional 390 HP 413, that was the same as the 1963 300J engine, except it had heavier connecting rods, which became the Six Pack rods for 1970. The 440 Magnum valve springs were designed to limit RPM to protect the cast pistons. The 1964 300K 390 HP engine was a limited production option in the beginning of the 1964 model year, which had the connecting rods that would later become the Six Pack rods. The rocker arms and connecting rods were different from the Max Wedge parts. The 1963 300H engine had solid lifters, but had rocker adjusters like the Slant 6, without jam nuts. It's interesting that the later beefed up rockers and connecting rods did differ from the Max Wedge parts. The 426 Street Wedge came out in 1964, but the 300K stuck with the 413 for 1964. The 440 came out in 1966, but the leftover 426 Street Wedge engines became the Dodge and Plymouth police car big engine for early 1966. The "P" part numbers were Mopar Performance parts that did not have any warranty. There was a "P" part number version of the standard weight connecting rod that was made of 4340 steel and a Hemi weight version too, with larger bolts. There was a better intake gasket for the aluminum Six Pack intake, with paper on both sides. The original Six Pack rocker arms were hand picked from standard 440 stamped rockers to meet a minimum required thickness for Six Pack use. TRW sold replacement push rods for the Six Pack 440, but I don't think I've seen a Mopar part number for different Six pack puah rods. Aluminum intakes have problems just due to expanding differently than cast iron. It was thought that outboard carbs didn't get enough heat under them, from the exhaust crossover. The low desk Six pack intake was designed by Chrysler and made by Edelbrock. Chrysler had designed a 383 Six Pack engine for 1971, but it wasn't certified in time for production. I have a photo of a factory prototype. Then there was goin to be a high compression 400 version for 72, but when the high compression was canceled, the Six Pack 400 was scratched from production. That intake was used on factory prototype 383 engines. The photo I have shows an air cleaner assembly that looks similar to the pop up hood scoop type, but shiny, as maybe chromed, but the photo is black and white. The height of the cleaner may be slightly higher too. I bought Stage IV heads in the late 70's. They were made in house by Chrysler, but the later Stage V heads were contracted out. The Hemi weight RB rods came out in the 1970's and I bought the 4340 rods in the 1980's. The 4340 rods were standard weight, not Six Pack weight.

The aluminum intakes were made by Edelbrock....

@@vernonslone8627 In the early 1970's, the Edelbrock intakes sold by Mopar Performance / Direct Connection actually had the Mopar "P" part number cast in them from Edelbrock. I've had several of those.

Thank you 👍🏻

Basically, if the 440 car hooked and the Hemi spun off the line it was going to be very difficult to catch up with the 440-6.

I have a 71 Charger factory 440 six pack 4 speed 4.10 car and a 71 Charger factory Hemi Automatic 3.23. They are both great runners. I haven't taken them to the track, but from seat of the pants, when running them hard, the Hemi is clearly faster. The hemi engine makes much more power, especially up top. The six pack engine makes great midrange power. Both are great, but the hemi is making probably 100 more horsepower. Remember they rated the hemi at 425 hp at 5000 rpm. That was accurate but misleading because peak horsepower was at 6000+ rpm and was closer to 500.

@@johntierno546 It's much simpler than that. Eight barrels beats six. Chrysler had plenty of experience with dual quad 413s but chose the lesser option instead. "Six packs" were common for the highway cruisers of the late 50s and early 60s, when drivers needed the extra power to get around slow trucks on the two lane highways like US 30 and 40. Once the interstate system came to be the trucks had their own lanes and the six packs and dual quad setups were relegated to the hot rodders and racers.

The fact is IF a hemi car and a 6-pack car were exactly the same with the same driver the 6-pack car would win every-time in a quarter mile. Had 2 brothers older than me, both owned Hemi cars and a 6-pack car, I personally owned a 69 Suber Bee 6-pack car and a 67 GTX Hemi car (the GTX had a 70 Hemi engine as the original engine blew-up before I owned the car. Anyway, between my brother's cars and friends who also owned both it is a fact that a 6-pack car will "barely", barley outrun a Hemi car, however, IF one were to run 1350 ish ft instead of 1320 ft a Hemi would drive around a 6-pack car.

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The early Six Pack rockers were standard stamped rockers that were hand picked from regular service rockers, for meeting a minimum required thickness in the pushrod cups. They were sold under another part number after being selected for Six Pack engines. Randomly, standard rockers could be just as thick, but just hadn't been measured for minimum Six Pack thickness. The early 68 340 rockers were thicker than 318 rockers and with their larger diameter spring retainers, the rockers would often contact the retainers. The service bulletin stated the fix was for the dealers to hand grind retainer clearance in the underside of all 16 rockers in the 68 340 engines, that had that problem.

Thanks for sharing , awesome 👍🏻

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Thank you 👍🏻 I appreciate it!

Yes, the 383 with 335 HP had the same lift and duration.

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Yep, I have original magazine road test articles with conflicting info on the 1969 engine and camshaft.

By the way, I'm a huge fan of the 1970 Road Runner/GTX body style. Do you have any current videos of your car, Assuming it''s yours?

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Nice. 👍🏻

You sold the wrong girl!

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Just bought one last week; drove it from Detroit to Orlando. Rear main seal leaked a quarter of a quart every tank full.

A Sport Fury?

Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

How could that happen? They cam isn’t connected to the carbs. You’d still get the outer two to open. My Lunati cam didn’t bother mine.

@@stevek8829 the cam affects the vacuum that the engine makes and the two other carburetors are activated by vacuum. They are not operated by linkage from the factory. You can buy a progressive linkage from the aftermarket and use it to open the other 2. He just made a poor choice for a cam

@@pughoneycutt1986 I’m somewhat familiar. I owned, blueprinted and ran it back when they were new. I never heard of a cam choice preventing the end two from opening. There will still be manifold vacuum. That’s why the comment seems fake. There is so much BS in the comments, it’s fun.

@@stevek8829 that is what confuses people vacuum keeps them closed lack of vacuum is what opens them that is why holley sells different spring packages to go in vacuum bodies on the 2 end carbs the springs are what opens up the carbs vacuum is what close them. If the guy had bought springs matched to the cam to operate the end carbs he would have been alright.

Thank you!

Thank you 👍🏻

Awesome. You may enjoy this video I published about the 1970 Sport Fury GT: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9lQgbfD2T7g.html

That’s awesome. What kind of car are you putting it in?

@@ultimatemusclecar I'm luckily enough to have a real 1970 440 Six pack R/T challenger. I'm pulling the numbers matching drive train to preserve it, and installing the 512 straoker!

Just Dynoed made 612 HP @5200 RPM and 655 FT LBS at 4600 RPM.

There is some out there, just search for Mopar graveyards or salvage yards.

@@ultimatemusclecar true, true

Thank you 👍🏻 I appreciate it!

Not very INSANELY informative. How about the hp and torque comparison between the 4bbl and 6bbl 440.

Awesome 👍🏻

For got...had the 440ci engine

Are you sure it wasn't a Carter Thermoquad?

Thank you! I don't have the Chilton manual but I would think that they printed the wrong compression ratio for that engine.

@ultimatemusclecar sorry, your wrong.

Thanks for sharing the story about your ‘Cuda, it sounds like it was an amazing car! Good catch on the Pentastar etc reversed. It’s because the original picture was reversed so it could be faced the other way.

Nice. 👍🏻 Are you using the Edelbrock intake manifold?

@@ultimatemusclecar yes, it's not an original factory production intake but made in the early 80s a 2nd generation I call it and it's N.O.S. and both outboard carbs are N.O.S. too and the center is getting replated .

Sounds awesome!

You are correct! Many, many, Chrysler 4bbl car 440's are what we call the 6-pac block with the steel crank and the six-pack rods. We called them TNT 440's

Yes. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

Which I repaced with ductile iron at first blueprint.

Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻 A lot of those big C bodies had 3.23 gears, 2.73s. They were good for high MPH on the highway like that.

Thanks for sharing.

There are two types of bronze wall valve guide inserts. One type of bronze wears quickly, while the other type holds up well. The old Perfect Circle positive seal valve stem seals didn't allow any oil to pass to lubricate the guides. The newer Perfect Circle seals have a small oil groove to allow a small amount of oil to pass and lubricate the valve guides.

I put high a pressure standard 440 oil pump in mine, as a high volume pump had noticeable drag on the engine with the bigger oil pump gears. Possibly over oiling cylinders also with 90 psi

@@lenmaryan7943 that is at cold start. And with 50 weight oil. It goes to 60 lbs. hot. So I might go to 30 weight. The first oil pump a I used went over 100 lbs.

@@lenmaryan7943 The high pressure and the high volume oil pumps have the same oil pressure spring, but the high volume pump ends up putting out more pressure. So much so, it can be hard to maintain rear main seal sealing.

@@randylear8264 Regular hydraulic lifters can have problems at high RPM with oils heavier than 30 weight. Rhoads lifters used to recommend 50 weight oil with their old high bleed lifters though. That was 50 years ago. The old Mopar Performance lifters used to be low travel plunger lifters and adjustable rockers were recommended, but the later ones are regular, full travel plunger lifters to work with non-adjustable rockers too. I drag raced 440's and later circle track 440's in a class that required hydraulic lifters. I thought drag racing was hard on parts, but circle track pushes everything to the limits. A synthetic 10W30 should protect your hydraulic lifter 440. The 10W30 Valvoline Racing Oil is very good.

@@BrandonLeeBrown thank you for the information on the cam,lifters and oil pump. I used the 484 cam and lifters out of my motor home 440 that had 10000 miles on it. I did not trust the cans and lifters we get today. This is a 19 70 hp 440 with a steel crank. Input the lifters in the same configuration they were in the old 1976 440. That 440 always ran 70-80 psi with no problems. That engine was put together in 1988.

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You should have gotten the kit to make it adjustable, too much pressure and it will blow the oil filter apart...don't ask how I know this lol. You should only have 60-80 psi...

Thanks for sharing.

I've seen a few of those. The heavy valve springs allowed a lot of RPM.

Back over 50 years ago, I installed Automotive Research Electronics Rev Guard to prevent over rev from missed shifts. The Hurst “mystery shifter” is one of the first things to replace with the Hurst Competition Plus. I learned to blueprint them in a race shop. Mine had Forged True crank, rods and pistons and a Sox & Martin straight cut gears and non-synchronized trans. Raced D stock when the record was 11.97. Best ET, driving to the track, was 12.17. Close enough to make the dedicated track cars break time quite often. In those days you raced in using last class record as handicap. Dialing in your own time made it too boring.

@@BrandonLeeBrownyou blueprint 440 springs to 130 lbs.

@@stevek8829 The 426 Street Hemi calls a valve spring height of 1.83", while the same springs in a 440-6 barrel call for an installed height of 1.86". It doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. Isky has good quality replacement single springs for both 340's and 440's. The 1963 300J 413 engine had double springs, that were the same outside diameter as the non-high performance big block springs and called for special valve seals to fit inside the inner springs.

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Even scarier are the 1969 brakes! 😃

Lol. I know what that feels like. Standard 4 wheel drums can be scary.

Do you mean 440 ci?

@@stevek8829 440 HP = 440 ci High Performance

Thanks for sharing. I had the mechanical outboard carbs on my 'Cuda.

Plus the Ford ones were all 500 cfm .

Ford's tricarbs are also smaller holleys 350 cfm. Inboard carbs different than outboard also.

@@peggyseefeldt2638 The Mopar replacement carbs were the same large size as the original Mopar Six Pack carbs. The float bowls were changed because the metering bodies in the outboard carbs made them longer, which was an issue with the rear carb fitting behind the center carb.

Not necessarily, the Tbird of 61 and 62 used Vacuum

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You bought it new? Sometimes there is an overlap of parts from different years. Like some ‘70 cars came with the Edelbrock manifold.

Bought with 450 miles on it, date on the block coincided with the production info, close enough, was a 69 block.

Awesome 👍🏻

@@ultimatemusclecar The 69 A12 automatic cars came with standard 440 HP transmissions. In 1970 there was a special Six Pack 727, but they had parts shortages. At the factory, they sometimes substituted a 440 HP transmission and sometimes they used a 426 Street Hemi 727. Late in the 1970 model year there was a factory bulletin that stated that only Hemi automatics were to substituted for Six Pack Automatica, if the Six Pack transmissions weren't available for assembly. That held through the 1971 model year, but most all 71 Six Pack automatics I've seen have had the special Six Pack 727.

Thank you 👍🏻.

10.5:1 compression for 1969 and 1970. Willem Weertman (Chief Engineer - Engine Engineering) states in his book (Chrysler Engines 1922-1998) " In 1969 when a setup with triple two-barrel carburetors was developed for the 440-cu-in. RB engine. Using a host of performance parts from the A134 engine, including the long duration 268-284-46 camshaft but with an even higher 10.5:1 compression ratio and named....."

Which car did you get?

Thank you 👍🏻. I appreciate your comment. I love a 70 GTX. I almost bought one for my first car but the guy changed his mind and didn’t sell it. Yes IM sure the engine in that car wasn’t a typical assembly line job. It was probably “blueprinted” maybe massaged. I rebuilt a “six barrel” I changed the outboard carbs to mechanical, not vacuum, cam, headers, stock heads. It was a 4-speed with 4.10s. Street tires and open headers I had it running 12.60s feathering it off the line.

Another true MOPAR guy! My Brother came home from the Army in 1968 and I was a senior in high school. He bought a slightly used 67 GTX. Bone stock 440 with column shift automatic. I rode shotgun with him and we had a blast as he never got beat in drag race. Went to ATCO dragway where he won the trophy in his class, turning a respectable 14.01 @ 105 mph. I took my 70 six barrel GTX to the drags and I was disappointed as the engine was built to 500 cubes and 530 HP. Four speed with 4.10 gears and only turned 13.4 @107. I had drag radials but could not hook up and would just spin upon launch. I should have but slicks on it. Love MOPARS.

In 1969 Chrysler had Dick Landy build some Mopar car engines and ran them at the drag strip. They were the basis for a lot of the recommended performance parts. Mopar updated the parts lists over the years. The 69's had the gears, air grabbers / ram chargers, Hurst shifters and high compression pistons. He did some 1970 build stuff for them too, mostly with the hydraulic lifter Street Hemi. At some point he switched to being sponsored by Crane Cams and designed some Mopar racing cams for them. Mopar went on to develop newer performance packages with newer parts.

stock 440-6 was only 325 NET horsepower, 50 less than a new 5.7 at 375 net......will take a lot more to get that car in the 12's

Thanks for sharing!

As one who raced both in NHRA stock class I don’t remember the factory ever rating speed. The hemi opens up as the wedge is shutting down. A stock 1968 hemi Road Runner with dual quad could do 170. I know because I did it. I’ve never gone so fast since. My current Vette is rated for 175, but I’m not trying it-I’m mid seventies now. Damn I’d love to get slammed in the seat by my Six Pak.

Thanks for sharing. What year Vette do you have?

@@ultimatemusclecar 2015

Nice 👍🏻

As they used to say "passes everything but the gas station."

My 70 Coronet R/T 440 was a thirsty one. Every time I went somewhere, I put in $5. Pretty soon I would end up with a full tank😎

Thanks for sharing!

Rule of thumb...if you can't tune a six barrel properly then don't open the hood as all you will do is screw things up! Easiest set up there is to tune lol. You only need to "read the directios" to know how to do it

@@Randy7th That's not the point---the point was that you had to do it often. It wasn't a "once a year" thing

It does have its advantages 👍🏻

Thanks for sharing 👍🏻. I know in the early’70s some people swapped factory Six Barrel intakes on to their 440 or 340 cars but you never know.

Back in the day a buddy of mine had a 69 Charger with a 340 six pack. It was a pretty crazy car. 🙂

Even better 👍🏻

Thank you 👍🏻

The 66 Street Hemi had a 3 month, no mileage warranty. The 67 Street Hemi had a 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty. All other Mopars had a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty, including the 68 and newer Street Hemi. The 69 440 Darts and Barracudas did not though. The rod bolts are strong enough, as long as they are only torqued once. The Six Pack forged pistons are about the same weight as the high compression cast pistons. 440 pistons are very heavy. The Six Pack connecting rods are copied from the optional 1964 300K 390 horsepower 413 engine. This was a rare early 64 optional engine that used the 1963 300J cylinder heads. The 1963 390 HP 413 300J engine used standard weight connecting rods, so the early 64 versions are rare. The standard 64 300K engine was the 360 HP 413 engine, with the then new 516 casting heads.

Especially in a street car or mild build, the standard rods are better to 6,000 no problem.

@@BrandonLeeBrown I have a factory 'Warranty Policy and Procedure' manual covering 1969-1971. In 1970 the powertrain was 5/50 and the vehicle (pass cars and 100-300 trucks) was 12mo/12k mi. In 1971 it was 12mo/12k miles for the powertrain and the vehicle. I think in 1970 for the US govt (GSA) vehicles it was 5/50 for everything.

@@vincemajestyk9497 The Mopars had some of the best warranties at the time. The early Hemi's had their own, shorter warranties and the 69 440 Darts and Barracudas were "sold" for competition" without warranty, but they were street legal.

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Nice 👍🏻

In 1969 they are the same as any 440 except inspected for optimum quality. In 1970 and 1971 they are different than the standard 440 but the same as the High Performance 440.

In the video? Thanks for sharing!

The numbers were not fake. It's a function of where the numbers are measured. Brake aka flywheel horsepower is measured at the flywheel, like on an engine stand. Wheel hp is measured at the wheels, on a dyno.

@@ForwardPlans SAE NET horsepower is not measured at wheels fool it is measured at flywheel just like gross is measured at flywheel----you are so dumb you done even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is......426 hemi was 350 horsepower not 425 440 was 325 not 390....

@@ForwardPlans numbers were fake---sae net has NOTHING to do with rear wheel power dunce....you dont even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is....LOL>..

How did they measure those numbers, where did the gross and net numbers come from?

@@ForwardPlans GROSS Horsepower is at the crank with all stuff removed, belts, air cleaner, exhaust just a bare engine on the dyno......NET horsepower is placing the muffler, air cleaner, and belts back on which takes 18-20% off the gross number. ALL new cars have to do NET, GROSS was banned in new cars sales back in 1972. So 1970 car with 440-6 drops from 390 hp to 325 hp........426 Hemi drops from 425 hp at 5,000 rpm to 350 net. These lower numbers were printed in all the MOPAR parts catalogs starting in 1972. All the other cars that claimed 375 are actually 305 hp net....while 2023 5.7 Dodge V-8 puts out more at 385 HP NET. NONE of the horsepower numbers claimed in muscle cars made until 1972 are real which is why the old system was done away with, it was cheating buyers. The idea that car companies under rated HP numbers to fool insurance companies is a fairy tale....never happened.