Now I’ve seen this I’m excited to try and use some of my longer kamoot routes indoors. Think it’ll be very beneficial to see where I can push on more without burning out. Thanks!
Thanks Shane, didn’t know the Bolt did this! I’m doing the Lanzarote Ironman in May and going out to recce the bike course in January, so might invest in a Bolt so when I get back I can re-ride the course as much as I want on my KICKR, 👍🏽
I'd forgotten that smart trainers had this feature. Thank you for the excellent video, Shane. Lots of useful information on it; I'll try it out soon on my Magnus.
Shane, love the Video. I have used this feature in the past. I have the Wahoo Element and the TACX NEO, however on my rides I never feel any gradient changes. I can't remember if I used a real life ride or if I created a course I usually ride in Ride with GPS, but in any case my Element unit would show gradient changes on the display however I never felt them on the NEO. The entire ride felt like riding on a flat road. I would like to see a video experimenting with the TACX NEO. Thanks, love all the information I get from your channel.
Hi, did you ever manage to do a route on your trainer with gradient changes? I have a Tacx Flow Smart and looking to do my own routes but with the gradient changes happening. Thanks
I don't believe I have tried again, I've been riding Zwift. I haven't tried since the most recent update to the NEO so maybe it's been updated since then, but previously I have never been able to get the gradient changes to work.
If using Zwift, unpair the controllable trainer. You will feel the gradients recorded in your 'real life' route. However they won't match the terrain you are seeing on Zwift. Works really well.
Hi, have you tried to contact Wahoo support about this issue? I have Flux 2 trainer and my impression is that the Simulate Route feature doesn’t work well. I’ve contacted support and they told me no one else reported such issue so it’s a low priority for them :(
Just (Mar, 2022) I tried this feature with my new Bolt v2 and a Saris H3. Unfortunately the Bolt v2 doesn't moderate the H3's resistance despite the route including elevation changes. The Bolt v2 "route mode", really looks good with a local Komoot course. Unfortunately without gradient resistance changes the feature is useless. I've had no problems with the Saris H3 (since Oct, 2020) but if I had to do it all over again I would have paid the premium for the mainstream Kickr v5. This is not the first time I've tripped across some limitation or other (e.g. no Climb/Rizer option). When it is all said and done the complaint needs to be chalked up to a "First World" problem. P.S. your advise on how to quite a trainer with grease worked better than I could have imaged. Thanks so much! At least I've been granted VirtuPro beta access, which I absolutely love every bit as much as Zwift. Together these two apps make the long Canadian winter less of a pain. Without a doubt I'll subscribe to VirtuPro when it finally gets out of beta. Right now it is stable for all single rider features, which fits my needs. I've not tried the multi-Real player mode which was enabled a few months ago. To me all single player features have passed the beta label for a while now. The in game physics engine, specifically drafting, puts Zwift to shame. Drafting is similar to RGT, which I once subscribed to, but overall I prefer VirtuPro's feature set.
Surely the smoothing of the course profile is also a function of the head unit's ability to track changes in gradient and elevation. My observation is that gradient changes on my head unit always lag the actual gradient that you're riding. There'd be some sort of moving average built into the head units to filter out noise in the readings. Add the additional smoothing of Strava and Komoot and you're only riding an approximation of the course.
Great video - can you do one when it is downloaded from Bsst Bike split, as I think it then works in ERG mode? Would be interesting to see the difference then. Great videos, keep them coming.
Another great video...there's a hill climb TT I'd like to replicate on my KICKR...but I don't use Wahoo head units. Can this be done with a Garmin Edge(I run an Edge 510 currently)? Or is this a Wahoo specific feature? #Zwiftmas! #RideOn
Have you tried the Elite myETraining app? It has the ability to record video along with a ride and then you can run it back on your smart trainer. Tried it last night. Was cool.
I understand this video is 2-3 years old so my comments today might be made on stale information. I am not sure how you actually got your wahoo to get accurate elevation data because my elemnt is the biggest liar. Ive done everything from trying to keep the little port holes where the sensors are located clean and to make sure the wahoo is outside a bit to acclimate to the temperature before starting my ride but nothing works. Any sort of temp variation, like going through a shaded area then going into a sunny area, makes the elevation wonky and untrustworthy. However, what I really want to mention is how cool it would be to take this to the next level and pair it up with a gopro video taken during the ride. Not only could I feel the elevation change just like it would on a certain route but I could see the video of the course I am riding. The playback could speed up and slow down to match my pace on the indoor trainer. How can I do that?
Greetings! Thanks for all you do for us novice bikers out here. I too look fwd to seeing a Garmin version, if it can be done. I have a Garmin 820 and Neo 2 ... would love to reride some routes I have.... any help would be appreciated. Thanks again, Larry
Hi man, grate video. Can you please let me know if you simulate the route what information can you display on screen via apps. I am curious if you can see an overall route with a mark of progress around your ride. Thanks
Hi Shane. Great video! I control my Kickr SNAP with a Stages power meter on my bike when in ERG mode on Zwift and TrainerRoad. Is this route simulation feature still possible when using an on-bike power meter, my Kickr SNAP, and a Wahoo Bolt? I'm wondering how the Kickr SNAP will know how much resistance to apply if my Stages is the power meter.
Great video Shane! Question... What if you would record video on a GoPro? Could you possibly sync this with your recreated indoor ride??? How would speed be affected...???
Great demo as usual. I guess the question I would have is how do you get the most accurate elevation data? Is the Bolt's altimeter remarkably different than the Garmin 520? If not, are there any alternative instruments available or can you use the Forerunner 935 for recording elevation? Finally, if you can record the route perfectly, will that be desirable since my understanding is that the initial issues with the Kickr Climb is that the gradient changes happened too digitally and did not provide for an authentic experience. Cheers Shane!
Altimeters in any GPS I've had always provide interesting results... some close... some not. I suspect the smoothing of the routes in the Wahoo app (or from the head unit itself) is due to the reason you point out, it'd be jagged and very unrealistic if using the raw data.
Wonder how RideWithGPS would have stacked up... But mainly, I'm here with a cautionary tale. Be careful using cloud computed routes on a smart trainer! I've only tried it once on my wife's kickr, using a route I've ridden many times. Didn't check the elevation profile carefully. There was an error in the map data. As a very real grade was ramping up, I hopped out of the saddle and started to push hard (for me) ~700ish watts... This is where the route data transmitted a virtual wall to the kickr--over 100% grade. The kickr basically locked up, and I nearly fell off the bike. If things had gone slightly worse, I could have damaged my bike, or injured myself. From now on-- I'll either go over the profile with carefully, or only use data from previous actual rides. It does seem like the kickr firmware should filter such possibility out, though!
Another great Video Mr Miller ..... Do alp duez, do alp duez !!! few questions if i may ... when connecting the kickr ( as thats what i have ) to a head unit from a ride already done does it change the power to the power you did on that ride for example say i did a hill and tried to sit on 280 watts does the kickr simulate the power i did on that ride ?? And if it doesnt do that and works on gps and goes by gradient shouldnt IRL as you put it and strava be the same ? especially if u pull the file from a ride u have down loaded to strava. And thirdly excellent your doing a video for Garmin users !!! look forward to viewing it, would it be possible to make a video on how to create a course on strava and then do on the kickr for us not so tech savy people. cheers Steve
This puts the trainer into SIM mode, not ERG... so it gives you the gradient and you can choose to ride as hard or as easy as you like. In theory the gradient should be what is recorded, in practice is isn't, it smooths things out a LOT. I suspect this is due to the raw data being VERY jagged due to how altimeters work (or more accurately, don't) ;) I've got an interesting idea for the route creation for round 3 - Stay tuned for that :)
Great vid Shane, very interesting. Off topic question - should you clear the routes on a Bolt from time to time to assist with performance? This is what I used to do with my 510 but can't find anywhere to clear the data in either the head unit nor the android app. Thanks as always.
I'm not sure how having routes on the Bolt would impact performance. As for that happening on Garmin units.... they do start playing up when there's not a lot of free space to save things.
Shane, good video. Can you ride the Garmin route on the SNAP 17? Reason being, both my wife and I use the same trainer and she'd like to know how to do this.
Great explanation and very relevant for those training for the Nationals (not me ;) ). Is there a way to have the video of your ride match your effort and speed? Eg. Virtual Ride?
Great vid shane as always, im training for the marmotte and to give myslef some targets i want to recreate some of the climbs indoors as specific sessions. I dont though want to smash myself though so i would like to ideally ride them to start with at 75% and then build. Is there anyway of backing off the gradients by a margin ? Thanks again for the vids
Shane Miller schoolboy by me not getting the point of switching our of erg so thanks, but obviously raises the question that I might have run out of easier gears, I run a compact with a 32...but its worth a shot...great vids keep em coming
Shane, I totally dig this concept, I know this is an old video and I'd be considered pretty late to the party, however, if i'm following along completely, you could use this to practice pace setting for TT routes? What are your thoughts? I know there's nothing better than getting out to the actual route and riding it, but if i get the route built and import it to my ROAM, I should in essence be able to practice the route and my pacing-in general that is? I know i'd need to take other things into consideration like, weather, wind speed and directions and traffic. Am i too far off?
Braking down TT courses into intervals is a better use of time, in my opinion and experience. But it’ll be worth testing out what works for you. It’s all time spent training after all. Check out FulGaz and see if your course is on there. That takes course replication to the next level.
I just set up a Kickr Core with a Kickr Climb and I do have a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt computer. Stilll waiting for the KOM Cycling rocker plate that should be here next week. I have been wondering how I could use them to help me prepare for the Honolulu Century Ride coming up in September with its 14 climbs. I already have the route from RideWithGPS saved in the Elemnt Bolt, guess I will try it out on the trainer and see how it simulates those climbs that are trying to kill me.
Hi Shane, Thanks for awesome videos, after watching this video i decide to by an early Birthday gift for my self and purchased the Elemnt Bolt, I added my Snap and downloaded your route from Komoot, but no luck with resistance change on trainer or turn by turn nav. and my other question is once the workout is complete does it upload the actual map of the route we rode to Strava? Appreciate if you an help me with this
That's one for Wahoo Support re: the resistance changing. The upload to Strava has no 'fake' GPS data points such as Zwift so you won't get the map/overlay on a real location from a virtual ride.
Does the resistance ramp up to match the road gradient? If so that's pretty cool. Good idea riding with the saddle bag indoors, you never know when you may get a flat ;-)
Yes.... and I ride outside too. I'd be the fool walking home with a puncture if I forgot to put the saddle bag back on after taking it off for an indoor session.
Route planning and re-rinding indoors two different things. However, the ride we did today was one from Garmin Connect suggestions. It did a great job. Worthy of a video in itself when I get the time.
Great vid, I’m looking to buy a smart trainer in 2018. Do you have any sense / heard any rumors if the Tacx Neo will be changed to be compatible with the Wahoo Climb? Or if Tacx will make a device of their own similar to the Climb? Thanks.
Hi. First of all, great work. I was wondering if it is possible to do the same without a smart trainer, I mean with a regular trainer, a power meter and the bolt to simulate an uploaded route with a virtual distance and speed?
Not really.... this is about the trainer control, which a regular trainer doesn't have. What you're after is a workout with intervals of power/cadence to follow along on a non controllable trainer.
Isn't most of the difference going to be that the IRL gradients were recorded by the Elemnt's barometer but the Strava and Komoot files are using the less accurate GPS altitude (but since both Strava and Komoot use OpenStreetMaps I would've thought they'd be the same?) So the follow ups would be: 1) Is there any difference in the accuracy of the barometers in head units? Would a better barometer bring back some of the finer details? 2) What happens if you generate a route from a different map source (e.g. Google Maps)? RWGPS has lots of map options.
A possible alternative to riding a route slowly - if it's your favourite route then you've probably ridden it lots of times, right? Is there a tool to combine and average the altitude data from multiple rides?
Great video Shane. Did you ever try to record your Zwift ride on a Wahoo Bolt in passive mode? I always get different numbers on my Bolt than on Zwift (same wattage, but different speed and mileage). I think it doesn't recognize the inclines, which makes it sensless for me to record the data via Bolt. Is there a workaround or hack you can recommend?
You'll get different speed and milage as the BOLT is measuring flywheel speed. This explains what's going on: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gT--ftOFbfc.html
Hi Shane. What trainer do you recommend for zwift workouts and the occasional race. Not bothered about cost just want the best trainer available. Thanks 😀👍
Hi Shane, thanks for great videos and reviews. Could you please tell your opinion on CERTIFIED RECONDITIONED - 2014 EDITION KICKR POWER TRAINER? Would you recommend this? Or is it better to buy brand new Direto?
i am trying to simulate a ride i done, but my bolt when i go through the pages does not show the "select route to simulate" id this function only available if you have a kickr, also the elemnt compain app i have says workout where yours says ride on the menu buttons at the bottom. thanks
I know this video is older, but any experience with the Kickr Climb and using the recreate route? I would imagine it would since it’s all the same ecosystem.
Shane Miller i think i will... I am not the typical rider, 110 kg 300 ftp... So it would mean a significant difference for me. Ill let you know what i find out
Shouldn't the head unit submit the "real slope" to the trainer? In other words... the rider's weight should not affect the slope that the trainer simulates! Or I am not getting it right :)
Moshe S. Cohen there is no "real slope". The amount of effort required to climb a hill at a certain speed will change significantly based on a number of factors, the biggest of which is rider weight.
Great video Looking at all the replies tho, the software/hardware choices to maximize your indoor cycling training are legion and bewildering. Not saying you need to do it all but someone really needs to do a comprehensive guide. A Wirecutter just for indoor cycling. 😀
Hi Shane, I've been watching your channel for almost a year now & made me decide to jump the gun (buy a Kickr & Elemnt). Now being a newbie on this thing, i just got a question on creating route. How can i create a route (file) that i can upload to the Elemnt so the Kickr can mimick the route created? Thanks in advance.
The gradient issue I’d put down to the ELEMNT bolt not reading gradients correctly. That’s been my only real problem with the Bolt compared to the Garmin 500 and 510 units I had been using. I’ve contacted wahoo several times about why the Bolt does not provide instant and accurate gradient changes and although they have made some firmware changes to address this, it is still pretty poor compared to how fast a Garmin gives this information.
Shane Miller - GPLama I sent a small comparison video at the time in 2017 to wahoo of the 510 and Bolt together on the bars. It clearly show the Bolt updating about every 5 seconds opposed to the 510 almost instant gradient changes. The Bolt also reads eg: 4.7, then 5.7 then 6.7 so it appears it just isnt accurate anyway. Wahooo support put it down to how they measured barometric pressure I think and they knew about the problem. It’s something I find important as training with an accurate gradient meter reading alongside heart rate reading on climbs is really useful.
Great vid, as always, Thanks! I guess the Bolt is sending gradient information to the trainer based on where you are in course (distance?) and its own recording of the course (to figure out the gradient at a given distance)... If this is the way it works, then the Bolt needs to know the speed, or the wheel size and the RPM... how do you get them? Especially with a no-back-wheel trainer? Looking forward for the same but with the Garmin 520... I'll definitely use it! (Winter time in Boston, US)
Can you do this with a starred segment off strava? For example I have Alpe d'Huez as a starred segment. Would I be able to load that in like you do with a route?
Thanks! I'm looking to do something same-same, but different. I'm looking to simulate some courses which I've never ridden before (to help decide on which races to do and such), and I don't have a Wahoo head unit - just the KICKR and a FR935. I also would REALLY like a visual simulation to go with it since I've never ridden it before. I'm new to indoor training so it's hard to chase numbers without actually seeing the hill sometimes. Is BKool good/the way to go then? Have you tried it in the last year or so?
Ant Picks Can that do non-pre-made courses though? I have a few fairly obscure triathlon courses I want to simulate. Also Shane will the Garmin version of KMoot apply to a FR935 too, or just the "proper" Garmin head-units?
Fulgaz only has preriden courses with video and data. You can not create rides on the website. You can submit your own ride and data, and they will upload it to the site.
I would expect Ride with GPS to be better than Komoot. Could the linear feel of routes be down to number of waypoints maybe? Would more waypoints add a bit more depth? How did it compare to actually riding outdoors? I did this last year and the same route took me an additional 20 minutes indoors compared the the loop outdoors on a 1 hour ride. I have not tried again due to thinking it was way off.
G'day Shane, just wondering how you can project the ride from the Wahoo Element Bolt to a computer screen? Did you connect your iPhone to a computer screen, I see you riding the route but can't see the actual route on a screen, that is what I need to know, can you please assist me with this query, thanks, Simonk.
There's no way I know of to do this. The best option for riding 'real world' courses is to use something like FulGaz which replicates courses with real footage and smart trainer control.
@Shane Miller - GPlama, have you had issues between non-wahoo smart trainers and the bolt, with the bolt not registering any speed from the trainer? I've updated the wheel circumference based on a formula I found on an elite forum, but the bolt still loses speed data.
Shane - I got this function working. Created a route on ridewithgps and tried to ride it with the 'route' setting on Bolt Element. All works perfectly but any gradient much over 14% was pretty much unrideable even in lowest gear. Do you know if there is a way of 'adjusting' the resistance on-the-fly or perhaps before starting the route please? I'm going to try and create the same route on Komoot and see if there is any difference. Thanks.
Sounds like it's working exactly like it should. :) Anything over 14% isn't fun at all. There's no adjustment I know of... and it's not something I can see them implementing any time soon. Maybe ping Wahoo Support.
Always amazing videos Shane. I tried yesterday to reproduce one of my rides. I have a Tacx Genius and a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt, created the route on Komoot but the simulated route at 0% was actually with 0 resistance at all causing my legs to spin out even in the hardest gear. Am i missing some settings? Thanks!
Question: I just got the Kickr. Do I need the Bolt to control the trainer to re-ride a previous route, or can I just use an app to control the trainer?
