These labels are like a quick summary of the machine's capability. I looked at my own welder for the first time - and now it all makes sense. Thanks, Greg, for educating us - one small step every day. Cheers.
Thanks Greg. I finally got the answer to why my old 120vac Lincoln Weldpak (90 amps) mig machine although rated for a twenty amp circuit would blow it if you were welding at maximum settings. Asked Lincoln and never got a good answer but I upped the circuit from the panel to a thirty amp 120 vac and the Weldpak was happy but I never knew why. Appreciate your filling in my vacuum in the head!
No problem 😀. Welders work on a duty cycle and most seem to be way “under rated” for actual power consumption. It gets real bad when running on a generator, since generators only have a fixed output. It’s very common for people to get too small of a generator for a welder not realizing how much most welders overload a 20amp circuit lol.
I enjoy making the videos to help people out 😀. What you and many others will find out is once you understand a few things well, tons of other things will make sense. Thats why it’s worth it to me to take time and answer peoples questions, we can all learn from the answers 😀
Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I took it that f1/f2 represented your overcurrent protection (ie fuse 1 and 2 feed the transformer). The 15kv was open circuit voltage for the high frequency start. And Nation electrical code states that any single cord and plug appliance can not exceed 80% of it's circuit, so how it got listed like that?? Now welders have exceptions on wire size according to duty cycle. Like you can put a 50 amp breaker and receptacle with 10 gauge wire (10 is worth 30 amps) if your welder nameplate meets criteria. This is because the welder will shut off on thermal overload before the wire overheats. Just a small favor the NEC did for us. Thank you for the great videos
Great thoughts. If there is a fuse it’s inaccessible for overcurrent protection. No opinion was given in the book on that either. You could be right. The 15kv makes total sense being the HF start, I never thought of that and obviously it operates at very high frequency. Without a doubt I always found it confusing as to how the NEC says one thing and tons of electrical devices go completely against that. Obviously like you said there are tons exceptions for welders because they have duty cycles. The cheap Amazon specials are especially bad (not likely meeting any legit specs) where they have 14ga wire and pulling 40 amps from the wall lol. To a certain extent it makes sense that many welders simply can’t regulate their power draw from the wall beyond a certain point because you are basically playing with a controlled short circuit. With Mig running too high of wire feed will easily cause input power draw to skyrocket over the machines rating. The only way to prevent that would be to have limits on wire feed rates or a internal breaker that would trip. I think the assumption is that the wiring and breaker that’s powering the welder will be protected for failure and some idiot running wrong settings would only risk damaging their welder and not the wiring. Still kind of surprising in my previous testing the firepower welder pulled 40amps off a 20 amp circuit when welding with settings the factory has charted for 120 volts. Put that on a poor extension cord and you have a meltdown lol.
Without having the manual available, f1/f2 depict that the frequency is changed in the IGBT stage and then fed to the (small) transformer before the final stages.
I still have it and have never hooked it to gas. Always welded outside with it. I believe that was the first mig Lincoln made for the home market. Sold it through Costco in the very early nineties, which was where and when I bought mine. Didn't need it for heavy material as I had had stick since the seventies. It has burned tons of wire and never any trouble but I have several much bigger machines that get used now. Funny though, I bought a new 180 Weldpak four years ago and it was seriously misleading with the 180 logo. When you read the fine print it's top amperage was around 150 as I recall. Seems they are stretching even the open voltage ratings. I was so disgusted I threw a cover over it and shoved it under the bench, where it has remained. Bought a new Hobart 210 Handler to replace it. That and a Northern Tool mig gun 190amp set up for Aluminum are my main migs.
Most MiG machines will exceed their amperage ratings, however in many cases it’s somewhat useless. It’s very common for companies to market say a 200 amp MiG machine. Well 200amp output at 18volts is 3600 watts of output. Often times the same welder might not output 200 amps at 21v (4200 watts) but instead 170amps at 21v (3600 watts). Basically you lose amperage as the voltage increases to the level you need it at to weld with. Really depends on the welder but many also have very short duty cycles at max output. That’s why from a functional state stick is far more useful to weld thick steel.
Duty cycle % is out of 10 minutes, so 100% duty cycle means u can run 10 minutes till you shout rest the machine. Air compressor use continuous use as 100% but not welders this is why there is no reference to % on data plate because it is implied it's 10 minutes
It looks like you Dynasty has a UsUo=80V. Maybe that's the reason that it can run 6010 rods so well. Very interesting video. Ohms Law now even makes more sense when it comes to welders. Thanks
so if a welder says it can output 110 amps on 120v with the I1max=48A it means that the breaker on the panel better be at least 50A ? so in other words, should the I1max number be equal or less than the breaker rating?
So the interesting thing is all breakers have a curve of current vs time for tripping. In simple terms breakers have both a instantaneous trip for big direct shorts that trips immediately, and then they have a thermal trip that causes it to trip over time. The higher the load the less time it takes to trip the thermal overload. Welders being intermittent use can pull 30+ amps through a 20 amp breaker and not trip it because you’re not welding for long. If you had say a electric baseboard heater that pulled 30+ amps it would constantly trip a 20 amp breaker because when you turn it on it stays on (100% duty cycle). My particular firepower welder pulled 40 amps and didn’t trip the 120 breaker, but had I done a bunch of welding it would have likely tripped it eventually. A 30 amp breaker would be far better with proper gauge wire, you would probably never trip that. Keep in mind the welding machine is not designed to weld for long at higher settings on 120 volts and may hit thermal overload before the breaker trips. If the max current on a welders plate is stated at 48amps, you probably should have a 50amp breaker and proper wire/outlet. It probably wouldn’t trip a 30 amp breaker and outlet (much like the firepower didn’t trip a 20 amp at 40 amps actual pull). With that said I rather size the wire/breaker/outlet for over what the machine needs than under it. Newer welders don’t like voltage drop and pushing a lot of current through smaller wire could cause enough of a voltage drop to be a potential issue. In the video where I tested the current draw of the firepower welder the 120 volt outlet saw 8% voltage drop at high current, the same settings saw a 0% drop on the 240 volt circuit. Proper wire size makes a difference. The biggest issue with welders comes more so when running them on a generator than a house outlet. In a house you basically have endless amounts of power to play with. Generators are far more variable, have significantly less power available, and often produce poor quality power. If you try to run a welder on too small of a generator you could damage both the generator and the welder. Running a welder on too small of a breaker will not damage the breaker but may damage the welder over time. Oversizing a breaker and wire will just end up wasting money, but to me running a 50amp breaker, #6 wire, and a 50amp outlet give me the piece of mind that I am set for most any single phase welder I want to run. It’s overkill for my dynasty 210 but I have run far bigger welders so it’s not oversized based on my use.
Hopefully Jason from above will reply. But according to my Research l1max is In -Rush current describe by Greg and the Circuit Breaker should be sized according to l1eff, not l1max! If you continue to trip your 30amp breaker you could substitute to a 50Amp breaker, using 30a wire, as long as you are using your branch circuit for a dedicated welder outlet per my interpretation. I bought an inexpensive Flux Core Mig Welder with l1max=42A l1eff=32.5A, Nmae Plate rating was advertised Much Lower :(
@@miketubeu your thoughts are correct. On a normal household wiring (dedicated circuit) sizing it based on eff should work based on how breakers trip and how much power is actually available. Machines duty cycle could also play a role, if it can weld 60% at max output it would likely trip the breaker on thermal based on that use over one that shuts down itself after 2 minutes. On a generator you have to size it over the max rating because you don’t have a borderline unlimited pool of electrical power to work with. Generators have finite energy available and you definitely don’t want to exceed that or spend a lot of time maxed out because of long term negative effects. Older transformer welders don’t care about poor power and voltage drop, a welder like my dynasty wouldn’t like that one bit lol.
