Reading Without an Imagination 

Same for me. As she said Her dress was yellow I was seeing a Disney like princess twirling in her yellow dress. But having a really vivid imagination seems to be also an outlier, since my whole family gets bored on long drives while I am just watching my own movie. I once asked them why they do not just shut up and dream. And they all turned to me and asked what???

I’ve always wished for that but although I’m at the lower end of imagination I do get variations of faint images flashing through my mind. So many possibilities of how things could look like based on descriptions at least 😂

When I write, I'm just documenting the imagery I see in my mind. As a biochemist, I could 'see' molecules in my mind and watch them interact. I honestly can't imagine not being able to imagine.

@@mitakeet it’s so funky, I literally mostly just see something like tv static but the tv is dark and the static is occasionally colourful

@@jo3_the_artbot791 I use a similar analogy when I describe the 'meaning making machine' that our minds are. Stare at a TV with static on it and let your mind wander and what's likely to happen is you'll start to 'see' things in the static that just happen to match up with whatever wanders through your mind when your brain gets tired of trying to process the noise. I wonder now if that analogy is useful at all to people who lack the ability to visualize/imagine. It'll be an interesting experiment to attempt to imagine what it is to not be able to imagine...

Oh god yeah, although as a visual artist with aphantasia it’s definitely an uphill battle compared to those with higher phantasia lol. There are workarounds though like knowing how things are constructed or being able to see patterns where no patterns exist! (Which is how I come up with designs)

I only seem to be able to do it with assistance, or when I don’t try. As soon as I try to picture something, it grows dimmer. If I see it and have time to absorb it, it stays longer. But it’s never too vivid. I wonder if some of us get more excited about film adaptations because we’re hoping that we’ll finally be able to see what we read about. That’s why I was sad that LotR left out or changed favorite scenes. I really wanted to watch Merry and Pippin try to convince an orc that they had the Ring by talking like Gollum…

@@BeeWhistler Same here. This aphantasia thing is a kind of revelation for me. Now I understand why I had so much more fun reading books after having seen the movie !! Specifically, the UK series War & Peace was what I saw when reading the book afterwards. Same thing with Harry Potter.

same -_- if my brain decides to randomly be like "do you remember that time you ate that rotten thing and felt sick? yeah, here is that flavour and texture again, enjoy 🤗" and I feel sick as if it was actually happening.

Same. Blessing and a curse.

I understand that too

Yes

I can't imagine how someone can have an imagination without seeing them in their head, that's wild. Your brain sounds like a much cooler place than mine because I can't relate at all

Me too! Someone said it’s like the computer works perfectly, but the screen is black, it’s like I can see without actually seeing

This is how I am too! I also dream vividly and it's not nightmares. I just can't see anything in my head when I'm awake. I wish I could. Though strangely enough I can hear things? Like if I catch an earworm, I'm actually hearing the song. Also, if I have watched a movie or show with the same characters as the book, those voices come through when I'm reading. As a side, a vivid imagination isn't always a good thing: I know my husband can see things vividly with his imagination and it actually impairs his ability to read - he gets distracted and makes it harder for him to get to the next parts in books.

@@bluetears2 That is an amazing description.

Oh yeah, I definitely have an imagination, but I can not see anything like others have said. Love the description of the blank computer.

your imagination sounds phenomenal

Do you write?

it evidently exists on a spectrum and I can’t speak for everyone. I can’t do any of the things you listed you can do, and I also have the same inabilities you do, but I wouldn’t describe myself as having aphantasia. I describe myself as having no imagination.

@@CinziaDuBois do you have an inner monologue?

@@CinziaDuBois It's interesting that you describe yourself as having no imagination. I've watched (and enjoyed) a few of your RU-vid videos and in those you seem to show what I would regard as imagination (maybe not a visual imagination, but still an imagination). The activity of constructing a historical narrative, whether it is as part of a RU-vid video, an essay or a PhD thesis, is - in my opinion - an act of imagination. Deciding what elements - facts from the archives, quotes from books or newspapers, etc - to include, and in what order, and how to interpret them and determine their significance, are acts of the imagination (thus history is a craft, a blend of art and science, rather than a purely mechanical exercise). I suspect you do have a much stronger imagination than you think, albeit your imagination might be of a different - e.g. textual rather than visual - form to what many other people have.

Same! I definitely don't see anything in my head, but I have a full on running commentary and a lot of concept thinking. Being biligual probably adds to that because i think in concepts anyway, not in words.

@@CinziaDuBoisI love your glasses ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

I see only the roughest impression/outline & have also maladaptive daydreamed, so: enjoy your gift of visualization without regret!

I have aphantasia and maladaptive daydream 😂

@@thereaddrawclub4706 I'm curious: how does that work? Like are you experiencing the daydreams in other senses rather than visually? Or like concepts and ideas?

@@kannonniemi for me it’s mostly like notes or general stage directions, or extremely rough sketches… that being said, I don’t think I have complete aphantasia, just a deeply limited ability to picture several things at once. I can imagine voices, though, so I can do pretty good audio dramas in my head

​@iloveprivacy8167 The idea of imaginative detail levels and quality varying on a spectrum or on multiple spectrums had not occurred to me before reading comments on this video. It is intriguing and explains some disagreements I've had with friends related to this topic.

totally agree with you here, i’m a visual artist with aphantasia and i would be insulted if anyone said i have no imagination 😭

This. I have aphantasia, but also a very creative imagination. I think people are getting stuck in the root of the word being related to images, but it now has expanded to mean something more than just that.

Agree, like any "disability"(through not really but like the brain adapts well as do people i mean in pretty grave thing even) there are other ways to express that and the brain pretty sure is creative and imaginative just different. Brain be good adaptingat doing through other means.

i usually hear it referred to as having no minds eye

I mean it sounds like you're all very awesome because I can't relate at all to anything you said. I have no imagination in any form or any creativity, so I could only speak from my experience.

Yeah, I’m also in the vague idea group. It’s like I’m seeing them through a very dirty window sometimes, but usually more like reverse blinking… like if I try very hard I’ll get a single flash of the shape which slowly dims and I can’t distinguish details.

Yes! This is how my mind works too! Sometimes I wish the narration would shut up, but I learned to tell myself stories to get me to sleep. LOL

Yes! it is so peculiar that we never discuss this until someone on the internet started describing in details their's. When I was a kid I noticed that not everybody formed thoughts the same way I did in the sense of how they connected concepts to one another so I have been asking people how they think but most people felt as if I was queestioning their sanity or intelligence and became very defensive so I stopped asking. this turnut of events that we are publicly talking about it and understanding each others better is so interesting to me!

Nah, I don't think they're linked, I think she's just experiencing something different even if there's a surface similarity of not being able visually imagine things. Well I also think it is also called aphantasia if you acquire it from a physical trauma (I was born with it as far as I know), but I also think that this usually includes memories? Now that I think of it I'm not sure if she was talking about a physical or mental trauma, it sounded mental.

I did specify in the video there's a distinction between people with Aphantasia and someone with trauma loss an I made it a point to emphasise that I had no imagination due to trauma, not Aphantasia as I believe they're different. Never once in this video did I say I had Aphantasia, but other people in the comments have said "I have Aphantsasia too" which has created a narrative that what I have is Aphantasia. I don't believe I have it

@@CinziaDuBois I appreciate the clarification. I am also terribly prone to self-doubt, and the smallest things can trigger that. I apologize for misconstruing what you said, and if I caused confusion for anyone viewing this.

I was maybe 50 years old when I found out "I am Aphantasia". In retrospect I think it is a superpower (when you are aware of it). It allows a different kind of thinking and understanding. There are clear benefits. Don't be sad, embrace your talent!

@@korsakow which benefits do you experience?

@@blubbblubb6239 This is a great question and I don't have a definite answer - still thinking about it - from my perspective I would say the main benefit for me is that you don't tend to get so much distracted by the stories (the image worlds) that your mind produces when trying to make sense of the world that presents itself in front of your eyes. This might be a "superpower" in our age of media, where so many people seem to get highly confused with the (emotional) stories that they tell themselves, or that their fantasy tells them.

as a aphantasic I do find that I'm not scared at all of what I call unconcieveables. I've no fear of hell for example, although I enjoy looking at artist conceptions of it.. I love sci fi fantasy and horror but it would definitely been harder for me if we didn't have so many good artists to put their images to page to be seen.

@@blubbblubb6239 I think only in words, so I've wondered if that is what contributes to my ability to be extremely analytical. I can watch whatever horror movie I want and unless it's REALLY bad (like so, so, so bad -- only 1 movie has met that criteria in years), I won't have nightmares or flashes of the imagery I've seen on screen.

Yeah. I wouldn’t say lack of mental imagery or other imaginary sensations was the same as lack of imagination either. The lady was able to write her presentation and ruminations on the topic after all.

that’s interesting to hear. evidently you have an imagination. I do not so I could only speak from my experience.

@@CinziaDuBois Point is, aphantasia doesn’t prevent one from creative endeavors. As is evidenced by your creating engaging content, even if it’s nonfiction.

I never said it Aphantasia prevented someone from being creative, and I also never said I had Aphantasia. I was very careful never to say that because I don’t have Aphantasia. I have no imagination due to trauma, and I made it a point to distinguish the two. I think it’s incredible you can do what you do, I have no form of imagination (I don’t imagine conversations or hear characters either, I can’t conceptualise ideas without seeing them physically, etc.) I was just speaking from my understanding because that’s all I know and when reading it sounded the same. clearly I’m wrong and I’m the odd one out

I can't picture anything, even my mom's face. I can describe things I've seen, but I can't see them. The only thing I can visually see is a specific PTSD moment, but that clarity is lessening with time.

@@Oona_Mae Thank you for sharing. This is so mind-blowing to me. How would you describe a face you've seen yesterday to someone else today? Would you have put together the similes and adjectives and descriptors while you're looking at the face, and while describing them the next day, remember the words used to describe the facial features?

i know the layout and what's in my bedroom but i wouldn't be able to imagine myself there, the idea itself sounds strange to me i cant imagine a smell or hear somebodies voice, if a song is in my head i'm singing it and doing the music, badly like a mix of humming and beatbox i only dream a few times a year and i'm pretty sure its just pitch black feeding myself descriptors of what is happening but i never really thought about it much may be of interest a while ago i did some memory tests, i scored bottom 15% in general and top 15% in word related memory

I can imagine it, and I can imagine fictional things, but there's no visual. It depends a bit on the thing, but it's intellectual not sensory. I said elsewhere, if I'm imagining a movement I may trace the trajectory with my eyes, but I can't actually see it it's just a spatial thing, I know where it would go if I could see it. Some of it, maybe a lot of it, is verbal, like thinking "he had blond hair," but some of it's not even really that and that bit is really hard to describe it's like the concept of a thing, maybe the closest I can explain is an abstract concept. Even though it itself isn't abstract my imagination or memory of it is, like a feeling. It may actually take an effort for me to put something like this into words, since the initial imagination wasn't verbal, but it wasn't even visual so I can't observe it and describe it from the visual. Personally I have no sensory imagination or memories, but I think some people with aphantasia will have others like smell or sound. I can get a song stuck in my head but the music isn't really there, just lyrics and rhythm. Well now that I try maybe there's sound to some extent. I can recite a scale in my head. It's a bit difficult though. I rarely remember my dreams. I *feel* like the ones I do remember were visual and I believe I've heard that it doesn't necessarily affect dreams, but I don't remember them visually so who knows. I hallucinated sound vividly once, so I think hallucination might be separate again. Recognition is different than memory is different than visualization. You could have various combinations. Some people who can't visualize can recognize faces, this in particular has been researched, and facial recognition takes place in a different part of the brain and is done on the level of face as a whole unit, not related to individual features like someone would pay attention to when describing a face, although lack of ability to recognize faces may be more common in people with aphantasia, because brains are complicated. I can't recognize them (or my ability is very limited; some people describe much more extreme experiences than mine) and I can't visualize them, but I can remember them. Well I don't think the memory is very good either I'll just remember particularly distinctive features and rarely remember even something like eye color, and I don't think I pay that much attention because I might not have noticed even distinctive features in the first place. But like there have been times when I don't recognize people that I see every day if they change up something that I was using as a marker, so it's not just that I don't pay attention. I suspect even someone who couldn't remember much about a face might be able to recognize it fine since it's something that's done automatically on the whole face level. What she's describing that's related to trauma actually sounds very different to me.

@@lexihopes This is SUPER helpful in helping me understand how certain functions like recall and how sensory memory works differently for you. Thank you so much for sharing!

My dreams are just as vivid as reality and always have been even back when I couldn’t visualise at all, but that’s not true for everyone. Now that I can visualise while awake (sometimes vivid, not usually though) it’s of no use to my art. Occasionally I imagine a whole new artwork in my mind but if I do I can never take it out. Music is the same for me, I think I’ve always been able to imagine sound even though it’s not always how I think. I rarely listen to music because I can play any song I know in my mind but half the time I’m making up my own background as I go instead. Usually music is just background noise in my brain but sometimes I do actually think in music, like I think through concepts/ideas/feelings with music. But I can’t take it out of my mind! I can easily improvise a whole new piece of classical music in my imagination, the sound of every single part of the orchestra is playing together in my mind while I’m doing and thinking of other things but I can’t actually play more than a few bars of a melody I’ve imagined. There’s a disconnect. So both art and improvising music are entirely present activities for me, I interact with them in the moment. I take out my art supplies and think of ideas and look at the colours and draw shapes, all of the creativity and planning has to happen in reality rather than in my imagination! So I can’t just reimagine something until it’s how I want it and then paint it. I have to do the thinking as I go, while I interact with whatever medium I’m using

I still make up stories and my own little world. It’s just not visual. It’s thoughts and ideas.

I think I don’t have an involuntary inner monologue because I need some sort of physical movement, like I at least have to be thinking about the act of moving my tongue and throat to speak even if I’m not actually doing it. It’s not that I’m actually incapable of thinking verbally without that, but it feels kinda bad and flimsy to try to use for everyday life narration. It takes too much concentration to maintain. It’s hard for me to imagine an inner monologue that doesn’t require my initiative, because there’s at least some active participation in the act of speech, even if it’s under my breath or just a thought about a physical movement. I don’t think I’d like it either, also because I think it sounds a lot like anxiety.

Yeah, it’s super frustrating in art classes watching other people seemingly work from memory. I have to look at the model almost as much as the paper, sometimes more. The image just won’t stay in detail. I think that’s why sculpting came more naturally. Feeling shapes is intinctive.

@@BeeWhistler I totally feel that, it works similarly for me when figure drawing I’ve been heavily leaning on shapes and their relation to each other in an almost hierarchical structure. The main shape the body makes, then breaking down the torso and limbs and head into smaller shapes and then shadow and light shapes! It’s ridiculously tough but there’s always a way! I’ve also always loved sculpting, definitely more intuitive somehow?

@@AvaAdore-wx5gg that doesn’t sound too far off! I definitely feel that at least. I just wish I could visualize like some of these peeps! Would be pretty neat to imagine a mind palace like some of my friends. I did hear somewhere that it could also have to do with how your brain interpret and stores information, I apparently fall under the mind map section while others might fall under more visual or more word based mental organization. I definitely need to read up more on this lol

Yes!!! Its not like i see nothing, its kinda like i get a vauge jist of a woman thats in a field and does a b c instead of like a woman with brown hair blue eyes and a dashing red dress came running through the field to seek her LoVER

I think it might be actually less energy intensive to not use the brain as a render-engine to draw all kinds of "imaginations". Not spending energy on visualizing gives you extra energy to spend on other kinds of brain activity. I am one of these people and when I look at people with very vivid imagination I don't think that they look relaxed. Quite the opposite. But of course, I don't know. I only "imagine" this other way of thinking, that I can not "imagine" as a image, but as the beautiful logic of words.

This is a good description to explain some of how I feel like my mind works, too. Reading being immersive, feeling more than seeing things. I don't know how one goes from not being able to visualize to being able to visualize to some degree but good on you for that.

@@goma3088 Honestly I’m not sure!! I guess being a kid helped, more brain plasticity. I remember trying really hard to look at something and then picture it in my mind. At first I couldn’t see anything, then eventually I could see an individual colour and over the course of years I kind of worked my way up from there. But that doesn’t explain why it was possible! I don’t know if people can drastically alter how their mind fundamentally works, for example I know people who routinely use images to remember numbers and other concepts which is something I can never do even though I can (unreliably) visualise now. I’m shocked I managed it at all

@@goma3088 Also feeling more than seeing is a really good summary!!!

I dont think its lack of imagination, and you definitly used you suriosity and creativity there to understand and want to know more. Maybe it juszt changed and not nessesary in a bad way, just different?! If i know a thing from the neurodiversity stiff differnt isnt bad and can even be pretty beneficisal.

Something I do that you might find makes it less disruptive is to just keep reading! I know that sounds like I’m saying okay but what if you magically erased a lifelong priority, but that’s not what I mean. If I keep reading and not understanding something is affecting my ability to continue then it’s absolutely worth looking a word up or reading the wikipedia page on some historical thing I don’t understand. But it’s worth waiting to see if what’s written next gives me enough context to understand what was said before! Maybe thinking in this way will minimise interruptions a bit? Another thing that might help is setting your intention before you start! If you decide to read for fun then analysing is only good insofar as it makes the reading experience more enjoyable for you. But if you want to analyse a book then your habits would be very useful! You can also quickly note something down if you do want to keep reading, sometimes I look things up after I’ve finished a book and it allows me to go back and appreciate it in a new light. Depending on time constraints and your tolerance for repetition you can always read things again! You could even plan to read through once to get the big picture and a second time to analyse in detail, or maybe once to analyse and a second time for fun. And sometimes you really can’t understand a book better until you give yourself a few years anyway! I tried to read pride and prejudice as a young teen and I thought it was so boring 😂 But now that I’m older I love it! It used to be a needlessly long, boring book about silly, archaic social norms and people making a big fuss over marrying men who were usually dreadful. Now I really appreciate the main themes and seeing how people with different mindsets and circumstances interact with each other and with their social context. And the difficulties of making big decisions that affect the rest of your life with a limited amount of info and of figuring out how to live with any poor choices are much more relatable to me now!

that's awesome!

I have aphantasia and I subvocalize, but my instinct is there's probably a correlation one way or another. I'd be very interested too.

I relate to this so much haha, I'm also a horrific storyteller. I wish I could write fiction so badly!

that’s interesting to hear. I have never gotten lost in a world at all, so that sounds cool.