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ATC communications are available to anyone with a receiver tuned to the right frequency. They are all simple radio transmissions, and are monitored and recorded, and are not secret in any way.
Later that evening, when the pilot was all tucked up in bed he was woken from his slumber with his phone ringing. Reaching over he turned on the light, stretched and yawned and picked up his phone. 'Hello?' 'Hi, when you have time, the souls on board please.'
Those pilots weren't that calm. ATC was. The pilots were getting quite.....excited. You want calm, look up the Thompson bird strike out of Manchester airport. *That's* calm & professional.
It's the professionalism that keeps me coming back for more. Even the ones who aren't icy cool are impressively composed in a crisis. I'm off to look up that Thompson one now :)
I can't talk for pilots but I'am with the ambulance service and when ever I got my uniform on, I'm more distant to stress and unfortune, not totally numb but still somewhat distant. I don't know how other professions deal with such thinks, but I guess if your training deals with stessfull situations early on, your training will kicks in more or less. Often enough you just really get what happend after the whole think is over...atleast that the case with me.
I’m an airline pilot, I have been in 3 airlines DHL, Copa Ailines and now in one airline in the Middle East, I can say that been laid down in a bed, listening RU-vid videos and commenting the videos is very easy, the pilot in a serios emergency has huge work load, at first they have to fly the airplane, deal with ATC, take care of another traffics, terrain obstacles and perform immediate actions for abnormal and emergency checklist etc.. for me ATC didn’t ask again for souls on board because he new the high work load in the cockpit. Very good job from pilots and controllers, the airplane is safe on ground and passengers drinking coffee in the terminal.
If the F/O doesn't have the souls on board first up from the top of his head then its unlikely they will get time to look that up once a mayday been declared.
True Story: If you start screaming in a library, everyone just looks at you like you're crazy, but if you start screaming on a plane, everyone joins in!
I keep coming back to these ATC vids due to my constant amazement to the point of addiction at how they manage all these flights coming in as a multitasking genie especially when they have to shift them around to accommodate an emergency.
my favourite part is when the canada flight just goes meh not 100% sure the tire won’t come off and the atc just goes. Good to know in the most sarcastic voice ever
oh my god i was on this flight! there was a huge explosion on the right side (i was sitting on the left) and everyone started screaming there was a fire, and then the co pilot ran out to check the engine
James Collier actually it was surprisingly calm. At first people freaked out but everyone calmed down pretty quickly, it turned to silence and then to small talk between passengers before landing
I have watched so many of these videos and it is simply astonishing how cool and calm these pilots are. I have only heard of one pilot actually freak out and i think he was an amateur pilot.
@@jimmoir7821 100% true! FYI, Israeli Air Force pilot is the only one in the world that landed a plane who lost its whole wing here's a link for those interested (listen to how calmly and accurately he relays the story) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-M359poNjvVA.html
Lots of experience. If you are good at handling your plane, the ATC exchange is easy but it is still nice to have a co-pilot....Lots of work to do in these commercial jets. Decades ago, there were 3 guys in the cockpit as 2 flew the plane and the third was handling the radios and actual navigation. They cut that extra guy out !
"Yes, sir, would like to return to Toronto, please" you can actually hear the ever so slight note of 'oh s*it' in his voice. It's subtle, but it's there. Totally unsurprising in that situation, but all in all, still one hell of a controlled reaction on his part.
I have so much respect for the folk who do this for a living. The fellows effing engine was on fire and his level of calm was palpable through the radio!
Huh. Years ago there was a Boeing flying quite low over my town, banking pretty good. (Weird to see over my small town.) Turns out it was this flight. Strange how you can come across things like this. Glad they landed safely.
@@Harry-uo2cr jet fuel doesn't have lead in it. 100LL Aviation Gasoline does, but that's for old piston engine planes. Jets run on highly refined kerosene. When they dump from altitude like this it generally evaporates before it hits the ground, although I have a hard time imagining anything evaporating in Canada during winter.
KayKay0314 because sometimes the amount on board, at ticket counter; doesn’t always match the souls on board final count.. (that’s why it’s only used to verify the pilots count).. people get off; people get on last minute. Yes this is a priority and there is a reason it’s asked immediately after the mayday has been established.. if this had ended badly; you would want an accurate count of people that were on board of the flight. Not only for loved ones, but to figure out why the plane went down.. not all passengers get on planes for good reasons. They did a great job handling the emergency other than this.
Where in the fuck do you fly to and from that people "get off, people get on last minute". The reason they ask for souls on board has nothing to do with "loved ones". It has to do with making sure ATC is talking to the plane/pilot they think they are and that the aircrew has its shit together and has the paperwork to prove it and that a correctly flight plan was filed and followed. When ATC asks for "souls on board" and the response is "we'll get back to you" and they never do, that's the first "F" on their report card and if there is a crash and casualties the "cause" is going to involve "pilot error". That manifest should be in the pilot's hand when he makes the call and he should report souls on board IMMEDIATELY after declaring an emergency. Its a EMERGENCY because LIVES ARE AT RISK. Not be cause that poor airplane is broken and might crash and the pilot damn sure better know how many lives are in his hands EXACTLY and shouldn't even have to look at a fucking manifest. Did he do a walk-around? Was he on the flight deck as passengers boarded and were they counted immediately after HE gave the order to shut the doors after verifying all the CHECKED IN PASSENGERS WERE ACCOUNTED FOR? If you're going to pull shit out of your ass playing pilot/airplane/airline apologist don't act like just because somebody asked a question they don't know the answer and you're fooling somebody. If you're in any way, shape or form in the airline industry I think you might want to make that stupid response that clearly means your an idiot or a public relations stooge disappear before it comes back to haunt you. You really think somebody that STATES that the pilot didn't report souls on board isn't smart enough to know there's something wrong there and didn't need or believe your "explanation" if they know what souls on board is? Pretty sure they've been on airplanes before and know damned good and well you don't just hop on or off an airplane and go unnoticed and unaccounted for.
DEEREMEYER1 people get on and off last minute when the plane is accidentally overbooked and they have too many passengers for the flight and they have to offer up seats for cash, or emergencies with passengers that require them to de-board and not take the flight, or crew deadheading, or passengers that don’t show up. I obviously mean unexpected last minute changes in the status of the current pilot manifest that would correlate with the PRE-PLANED number of people planned for each flight. Reporting souls on board is ABSOLUTELY for ATC to confirm the souls on board, in case the plane crashes during a mayday. (& no it’s not the only way pilot error is determined, if they don’t report souls on board during a crash; that’s ridiculous. Electrical failure/fire/ rapid depressurization, terror act (all could leave them physically unable due to their planes functioning systems; or even physically incapacitated ... & unable to report souls on board). Yes it could be they were distracted and possibly tunnel visioned at the time of the emergency/ but there is a reason it takes like two years to investigate accidents; and the main indication for pilot error comes from the data/voice recorders and examining the physical data they find from whatever is left of the current condition of the plane. As for a mayday without reporting souls during a safe landing; yes that’s unacceptable; pilot should be able to clearly prioritize each issue as to not get tunnel visioned on the problem. Although I would just prefer a safe landing over focusing on transmitting; and then later send for retraining . And as far as WHY ATC asks souls on board; it is in fact if there is a crash they can confirm in the rescue/recovery phase(bodies) for families like I said there have been several crashes like the Brazilian crash 4 people were not on it as initially thought. As well as using the pilots manifest to determine if there was any suspicious activity/terrorism or unidentified souls; like on an air India that had like 10 fake passports, an Malaysia flight with unidentifiable passport/manifest match’s. Learn to comprehend before talking shit.
@@B-System 90% of El Al pilots are veteran IAF pilots with thousands of sorties under their belt, most join El Al once their military career is over - so its easy for them to stay calm compared to their tactical rich past
Amazing professionalism all around. I know these folks train for this stuff but it’s a different world when it’s real life. The ability to work the problem, fly the plane, communicate with ATC and keep your cool is awe inspiring.
It wasn’t made clear on the video whether there was a positive outcome to this incident....I really hope so. I can’t believe how calm and professional both the Crew of the El Al flight and the Air Traff Controller were being. I know it’s their job and they go through masses of training, but being faced with a Real World mid-air crises obviously feels completely different. Wow 😮. I have so much respect for these people 💜
They landed safely. The pilot was going to continue to taxi off the runway but ATC said it wasnt nessecarry, so it seems they had plenty of power and the confidence to move at least a little further to clear the runway.
I don't know why people hate ATCs so much. Without them, the skies would be like a war zone. There was a scary recording of an ATC in Las Vegas who was for some unknown reason, left completely alone and collapsed because she had a stroke. The pilots could be heard trying to call for help and some were even seriously considering landing without permission because um, what choice did they have when they were low on fuel and probably couldn't make it to the next airport...
It’s training. You react to the situation. Fly that dam airplane first. Keep it flying and go through emergency procedures. Then everything else second. When all is said and done the brave men and women of the sky land safely, that’s where it becomes reality.👍👍Good job pilots and atc
This was the only time I've picked up panic during an in airline flight emergency. The pilot on the radio did cool down and started taking it step be step, dumping fuel etc. the MTOW is 420,000 to 425,000 lbs, MLW is 320,000 lbs, they may need to dump up to 100,000 lbs of fuel taking what min 15-20 minutes min, a long time to keep the runway open. He said they were carrying 51,000 tons or 102,000 lbs of fuel or 15,260 gallons
That's 53 METRIC TONNES, or 53, 000 kilos. Similar weight to American though, as 1 metric tonne = 1.1 Murican tone. The fire was extinguished, so the pilot was thinking more of properly landing at max with dumping, rather than direct to runway asap.
The fuel (mostly) vapourizes when released. It gets suspended in the atmosphere and while it does eventually come to ground, it can also be carried by the winds and settle elsewhere. If you wanted to "dust" the ground with fuel you'd have to be flying very VERY low.
The side conversation with ACA877 on this one shows a strong need for better coordination of resources during an emergency. Telling that pilot "no, we can't spare even one car to check your tire" put the pilot in the place of having to decide between making a landing that will leave debris on the runway, or taking a hold that will eat into his fuel reserves and possibly force him to divert, risking backlash from his employer, or declare an emergency of his own should his fuel state run too low. I'm glad to see at the end that someone realized it was stupid not to at least have a sweeper car check behind him, but come on...
So I don't know much about flying but really what can be done from the ground if the tire is low?I guess what I'm saying is what would be done differently from a "normal" landing if the tire is low?
@@maverick7969 The concern for the Air Canada flight would be the tire exploding when they landed. The debris from the tire could cause damage to the landing gear or cut hydraulic lines to the brakes which could cause all the brakes to not function. Leaking hydraulic fluid on hot brakes could cause a fire. These are some things that could happen so it would be prudent to have emergency vehicles present. Also it is a CYA (cover your ash). If something happens and you didn't request emergency equipment some lawyer will try to get rich off you.
In aviation, you go by priority. This info was not priority as for now. Plane is flying, fire seem out , since he drop fuel, so , as ATC, as the pilot, both they go by priority. Atc did his job asking, pilot did his job flying.This question should not be asked to a crew in a emergency situation anyway. Not the time at all.It get them to do something they dont have time for, and could be found out so easily by other ways.
The other was not an emergency at that point, just a low tire. While potentially dangerous, he wasn't declared, and was only concerned. High alert aircraft with a reported visual fire vs a "possible" issue..... the alert has to take priority. I've worked emergency services a long time..... sometimes you gotta prioritize
What i don't really understand is, why is it so hard for the pilots to find out how many souls they have on board? I have seen this in several videos know that atc often needs to ask 2-3 times till they finally get an answer. Doesnt a pilot know what he has on board?
They will have been notified about the passengers on board just before the departure when they are handed the loadsheet by the ground crew but that's it. They really don't need to know the souls on board whilst they are operating. They would have either pulled out their loadsheet again to check or would have checked with the cabin crew.
They don't know how many souls on board because they overbooked and had to drag screaming people off the plane. Cant figure out how many they booted off.
sge1Andy I believe the emergency checklists for when an aircraft loses an engine trumps confirming the passenger count. They need to stabilize the plane especially if they hear an explosion and go into rapid descent. Copilot checking the engine to confirm fire is extinguished and see if there is wing damage is part of the process. Calculating aircraft weight to safely land and how much fuel to dump. Remember you only have 1 reverse thruster with the engine blown. You don't want to land a overweight aircraft only to burst the tires or run off the runway. Once aircraft is stabilized get the soul count. I was on board an aircraft a several years back when an engine blown and it was a similar process after listening to atc and the account above.
Interesting that they only mention the engine fire once. Never asked if it was extinguished. Never stated that it was. I assume that fuel dump ports are far enough away from the engines that there's no risk of an engine fire igniting the fuel. True?
I am not a pilot but have spent a lot of time in military aircraft as a US Army combat medic, so sorry for the silly question. Is it safer to dump fuel while the engine is on fire, or is landing with a lighter load of fuel the better option (generally speaking, since this aircraft chose to dump fuel)?
It is almost certain at that point the fire was contained with the fire suppressant bottles in the engine. If the engine is secured, the heavy weight of the plane would be the greater concern as it would increase the required landing distance and the brakes can overheat. Had the engine fire been uncontrollable, it would be more critical to land the plane even if it were overweight.
On every single flight with May Day or Pan Pan that I’ve listened to, when TWR requests “Souls on Board”, cockpit ALWAYS says, standby. I can only assume they must locate manifest from crew. Of course, cockpit has fuel and hazmat on board. But, I do not understand why number of Pax & Crew isn’t readily available in cockpit - right next to their Flight number. Any pilots out there that can explain? Thx!
Ever been in the cockpit of a multi engine turbine/jet? Honestly it's unnecessary info until they're asking for it, not something they're going to keep at hand. Only reason the ATC wants to know it is to make sure all the bodies are accounted for as quickly as possible if you fall out of the sky.... the pilots objective is to prevent that.
I'm no pilot, I was the one who asked this question. Rescue team on the ground need to know that in order to get medical support . But, I think this mandatory question in the phraseology book of transport canada should be removed, since it is conterproductive. Atc or APM or FSS couldeasily get this info throught company dispatcher.
@@ydro11 incorrect, the manifest is not evidence of how many are actually there. the rescue teams will put themselves in danger to find everyone, so it is best they know, including jumpseaters, stowaways, no-shows etc, discrepancies inevitably happen.
That would be a psychopath and likely, there is at least one in every plane......maybe more. We still give them the benefit of the doubt and pretend they have a soul. The spirit world will handle that after they leave their organic bodies behind, to rot.
BULLOCK ...what does that matter? Have you ever stood at the narrows in Orillia and watched the hundreds and hundreds of boats that go through there per day? I think they put WAY more shit into the water then a bit of fuel from an aircraft.
How exactly is that 'disinformation'? If the folks who post this stuff can't get the audio, they can't post. Unless you believe they sit around recording this stuff themselves with you in the basement ? Curious.
Nice video, feel good that everything fine. btw, are you going to make the vid about the crash in Peru? Keep up the good work, love your channel!! thx for the effort :D
9815L was a small aircraft with one soul on board that had flew into bad weather and went into a spin. They are completely different situations which id like to see how you'd handle both
Why do they let the the low pressure tyre plane which might mess up the runway land ahead of the El Al which declared mayday with engine on fire? Not safer to put the other in hold in case they're unable to complete the dump?
Vaporizes, disperses into the atmosphere and falls to the ground in light concentrations. That's why he wasn't allowed to dump in the hold. Gotta spread it out.
Also because the plane was much further away from the receiver (whoever is recording that) than the tower. He was getting a very weak signal. They do have a range, you know. The tower read good, the guy hearing and recording this, didn't.
Most dissipate and very little would reach the ground when releasing from such height. ATC's are trained to direct traffic over unpopulated areas or large bodies of water to have as little impact as possible. Studies have shown the effect of the evaporated fuel vapours in the atmosphere is negligible assuming the fuel is highly volatile and both pilot and air traffic controllers have ensured that fuel dumping does not happen unless a specific altitude has been reached.
@@ydro11 I'm not sure you are quite understanding what 'volatile' means in these circumstances. Jet fuel dumped at high altitude evaporates into an aerosol, aided by the low air pressure - the molecules will be floating around in the atmosphere, yes, but very little, if any of it, will reach the ground. Low altitude is a different matter. I forget the details (I'm an engineer, dammit, not a pilot :D) but one of the sorts of aviation fuel is less volatile so that would change things too.
@@dallassukerkin6878 sorry, you are wrong. In assuming what i do or dont understand, is first of all, wrong. Jet fuel dumping has to be done in coordination with ATS ( either ATC or FSS). That part is simple to me to understand, i was FSS. Fuel dumped in altitude will become aerosol. Indeed. But still is heavier than air. This aerosol will become the core of water droplet.(it absolutely need a particle of dust or something in air to agglomerate water. When enough water accumulate around dust (ORr in this case fuel particule) to be too heavy to remain in suspension in atmosphere, it will eventually fall down on earth. So you are right that fuel will become aerosol ,and that no fuel will eventually fall on the ground right underneat the dumping action, but with time, all of it will fall on the ground, carried down by water. (Liquid gaz or frozen)
I can tell why it took this track for fuel dumping. It's over large hills mainly almost mountains and there's two lakes and there's not a lot of people as well this flew straight over my house and I was wondering why a plane was low heading north usually if they’re low they’ll be landing at a nearby general aviation airport or heading west to YYZ or south west to YTZ
VASAviation does such a great job with these videos that I hate to mention it, but.... This is not the first video I have watched where the transcript (subtitles) does not always match the words spoken in the audio. A small thing usually, but not in aviation, which is why clearances are always read back to the tower.
I understand that dumping fuel reduces stress on the gear, reduces stopping distance and approach speed, but are those factors more important even when there is a fire on board? Wouldn't the priority be to get the aircraft on the ground ASAP?
And landing above max landing weight can damage the aircraft further or even cause the gear to collapse. Also the plane would have been full with fuel since Vancouver to Israel is a long flight.
Combination of both I believe. The plane has to meet a minimum weight for landing but in this case I think it’s more so to decrease fire risk when landing. Same scenario happened in CA - plane flew in circles until it was able to dump most of its fuel
Pilot mentioned maintaining fuel in tons. Isn't this required in pounds? If that got passed on incorrectly, wouldn't be the first metric vs imperial screw up.
Majestic Twelve -- fuel should be dumped above a certain altitude so it vaporizes in the air before hitting the ground. It does hit the ground, but it’s very diluted as it mixes with the air. After time the UV, heat and air will breakdown the jet fuel. I read this off the internet. I don’t know if it’s true, but it sounds good
![[REAL ATC] El Al B763 ENGINE FIRE + FUEL DUMPING @Toronto](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
