REAL KENJUTSU SPARRING! - Reacting to  

I bet he is, I have a huge respect for him.

​@@FedericoMalaguttiit is hard not to. He has such a kind, joyful and humble approach to his fighting it would seem.

thats so cool! I wanna be a student, I watch all the videos and practice as much kata as i can repeat, but i cant afford the classes unfortunately, if you have some tips and tricks, or any Seki-sensei quotes you can drop for me that aren't on the channel id love to hear it!

@@twinjunomusic Shogo just released two at home training videos, a 4 minute workout and 7 minute workout, with the basics. I would start there! I'm sure we all look forward to training with you soon!

True

imo, tippy tappy cuts are perfectly fine to parts of the body that require fine movement. Getting a cut on the hand is *very* debilitating, as it can severely restrict dexterity. A good, deep cut is important to parts of the body that would otherwise not debilitate them. Imagine a paper cut on your arm vs the web of your finger, one sucks, and one REALLY sucks (terrible analogy but you probably get the point.)

Exactly, and we see people like Meyer showing very shallow cuts like duplieren all the time. @@Artameful

@@Artameful i always think of it as just cut your opponent and try not to get cut, even if it's a small cut I don't think anybody would want to get cut.

​​@@ArtamefulI once had an accident in metalwork class at school and cut the back of my finger. It was quite shallow, but I went into shock: I quickly got tunnel vision and felt dizzy and had to sit down. A cut really doesn't have to be deep to be debilitating.

In bjj we call that flow rolling. If you get tapped they just let go and keep rolling without resetting.

@@samlevi4744 not surprising, since most of bjj comes from Japan

Thank you!

Huh. Didn't expect to see you here. Glad to see you are still going strong, and still keeping Node going.

Thank you!!!

Thank you!!

Someone else linked another Seki Sensei fight, against another Sensei above, really interesting!

I would add that, especially at the end, Seki-sensei was attacking in order to teach Shogo what he is doing wrong.

He has different videos fighting non students, He always fights like this. Calm.

Some large swings with one hand like Seki-sensei did against Shogo's leg would be pretty comparable to may two-handed cuts I believe. Especially holding it further down with the left hand.

@@atom8248Absolutely! That momentum with a sharp edge on is devastating. The recovery tempo after committing to such a swing is the real issue

@@davidthor4405 It's high risk high reward. Although you do it from further away so the risk is somewhat smaller

@@atom8248 So true. I have a guy in my club who throws those pretty often. I’ve been working on finding a good counter

I bet you’ll find someone! For sure!!

Yeah, I did it a number of times. We also have a tournament in rome similar to it.

They used to during the late Edo period through the Meiji restoration, but it was not the combat simulation which we think it should be today. Shinkage ryu and its descendant styles use the fukuro shinai in their kata so they may train forms at higher intensity. The headmaster of Jikishinkage ryu grew frustrated with the "dead" kata of his students so he developed a mask and gloves and instructed his students to strike eachother in the style of his ryuha until he was satisfied thus uchikomi keiko or striking practice was born. This striking practice was later gamified in the Nakanishi-ha itto ryu giving us gekiken. The rules, students and techniques of the Hokushin itto ryu came to dominate the gekiken phenomenon to the extent that the styles of other ryuha were lost to history. This sport was finally renamed to kendo at the turn of the 20th century. This sparring of Seki sensei is a modern creation to suppliment his traditional instruction. Check out (Chiba-ha) Hokushin itto ryu and Tennen Rishin ryu for more kenjutsu sparring, or Haga-ha kendo for what kendo was like.

One of the big differences I've noted is the crossguard vs tsuba. The tsuba gives better lateral protection so they use the flat more for defense, the crossguard gives great defense sagitally so the you often defend with the strong edge and set up techniques to catch with it. Also, the katana is more like a bastard sword, considerably shorter than the longsword.

They just shared one with me. Gorgeous, I wasn’t aware of the other channel unluckily! But now I have a lot of stuff to watch it seems lol

Here he is doing kendo ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SQ4a-sijENA.htmlsi=-FdK799ZD3mOzyjT Seme is better still

Hmmm i heard the term before but about a different kind of "swordfight"....yaoi....so if that is called Seme the opponent on receiving end is considered Uke? 😂

​@@galadballcrusher8182What you are refering to is Seme and what OP is talking about is sēme. But also, yes, Seme and Uke are words used in Martial Arts too, mostly during demos, Judokas for example consider being a good uke very crucial. (albeit Tori is more common than Seme)

Thank you!!!

Oh of course, anyway, I talked about my experience, not theirs.

@@FedericoMalagutti Yeah. Just a small correction, because his line was indeed dubious as in what he meant.

Oh thank you for this! I will maybe react to it in the future!

I just watched this video. Is freaking amazing, being everyone there at a higher level of competence. Looking forward to break it down. If you find anything similar hard to access for me (namely only Japanese titles etc.) I would encourage you to send me the link. Thank you very much.

@@FedericoMalagutti You are very welcomed! I’m glad that you find those sparring amazing! I’m more than happy to share more when I encounter more. And again, thank you for your breakdown and look forward to your more comments on those sparring

Oh, I would definitely enjoy to have a chance to train and spar with them, using their methods. The problem is the entirety of the planet being between us mostly, besides other aspects XD

@@FedericoMalagutti there's a training camp coming up in May! lol

I know them, yep yep

Tozando

@@Druid_Ignacy Admittedly, I have to agree with you. Being vulnerable to head hits changes everything. But to break a spear in favor of this way of sparring, they hit the head with cuts, mainly from above. So while with some limits you have everything, but of course, more control is needed. Considering anyway that this way of sparring is historically accurate, in a sense that it was used during the 16th century and after, and that it’s use brought the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu to become the favorite school of the shogunate in the 17th century, I love the fact they are keeping it as it was.

That is sutemi, but for some reason we call it zanshin. Traditionally sutemi means that you hold nothing back for after the attack whereas zanshin means you hold about 20% back for the followup attack. This is confusion which we allow beginners (0-2dan) to have as we learn ki-ken-tai icchi. This confusion is something which you will rarely see in competitive kendo. Zanshin can never mean to show an opponent, even a defeated opponent, your back.

These are not finesse weapons. The body is the limiting factor for attack speed in most approaches to kenjutsu that I am aware of.

A lot of old kendo photos exhibit a thrust to the face mask. This target area was quickly discontinued because it caused too many neck injuries.

I actually answered to it a couple months ago, heheh.

@@FedericoMalagutti Omg I skimmed through your channel to check but I must have missed it.. Ima have to look better :D Id love to see that one too :) Thx, is awesome to get an actual western style fighters comments and perspectives.

I don't know! I honestly think it is quite safe to land that action with proper distance management, rather than building up some complex technique to get, say, the head, which has many components (everyone of it which can go wrong). An about the "power" of the strike, the thingers are on the handle, it is like snapping a 1.5 kilos kitchen knife with far more leverage against 4 little sausages on top of a wooden plan. Anyway, as any blow can be landed in a good or bad way, and it can have success or fail. But in an unarmored fight (which both the above training and hema training tend to replicate) is quite good.

@@FedericoMalagutti Skallagrim tried it with a hand-analogue and while it didn't sever the entire hand he managed to badly damage it with a very light false edge cut. It's not a perfect test but I feel like the guy above was probably hit with a blunt sword in the hand and not a sharp. Even if it doesn't incapacitate the opponent any hit you can do without receiving one yourself is good enough and it would probably have a negative effect on my handling of the weapon if my finger was half cut-through. I don't understand the assessment of the technique as "not safe enough", it's an action so safe that you almost receive mockery in the hema community for doing it.

They used to during the late Edo period through the Meiji restoration, but it was not the combat simulation which we think it should be today. Shinkage ryu and its descendant styles use the fukuro shinai in their kata so they may train forms at higher intensity. The headmaster of Jikishinkage ryu grew frustrated with the "dead" kata of his students so he developed a mask and gloves and instructed his students to strike eachother in the style of his ryuha until he was satisfied thus uchikomi keiko or striking practice was born. This striking practice was later gamified in the Nakanishi-ha itto ryu giving us gekiken. The rules, students and techniques of the Hokushin itto ryu came to dominate the gekiken phenomenon to the extent that the styles of other ryuha were lost to history. This sport was finally renamed to kendo at the turn of the 20th century. This sparring of Seki sensei is a modern creation to suppliment his traditional instruction. Check out (Chiba-ha) Hokushin itto ryu and Tennen Rishin ryu for more traditional kenjutsu sparring, or Haga-ha kendo for what kendo was like.

In the Edo period, they used corpses to test and train the right cutting techniques. The existing techniques are already set in stone.

In what sense?

​@@Ianmar1 Hi Ianmar, There is a balance between not insulting people and yet, at the same time, I feel like I need to give you an honest reply which will come across as insulting to some people. So below, I will respectfully give more detail. If they are willing to express their views publically on RU-vid, then I hope they are willing for me to share my opinion on their video publically. Despite the fact that Seki Sensei has some obvious skill and coordination, the information shared in the videos is not only incomplete but also 180° from reality. In other words, not only are the videos not expressing accurate technique, but also giving bad information and misleading those who would watch it. People are being mis-informed aka, bad information. I have respect for people who train hard and consistently (It isn't their fault if what they are doing isn't logical/good technique). Shugo has trained for 9 years, and is legitimately trying to create videos the best way he knows how. I just think that he has strayed from the path of reality. I don't think he is purposely mis-informing people. He is just confused. Again, despite the fact that Seki Sensei has some obvious skill and talent. That doesn't mean that the information and explanations he is showing in the video are accurate. I went down the rabbit hole of their videos watching over five hours of their content. My past knowledge: based on other sword schools I've visited, martial-artists I've talked to, and years of experience leads me to disagree with very fundamental aspects of what is claimed as being "true" or correct with respects to kenjutsu and related arts (battojutsu, iaijutsu...etc) It is because of these discrepancies that leads me to believe that their art, as it currently is in 2024 isn't 100% legit. Meaning, a lot of information has been lost, or has been transmitted with error. One example: Let me direct you to this video where they talk about chiburi being "useless" even though it is well documented historically and with any number of schools. See their video below. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6Y6wl5b4vwo.html -------------------------- Observation: Perspective Across his videos, he is sparring against people who have little skill. You can tell that his opponents are moving poorly. For example: An advanced musician would make a beginner look bad. However, judge that advanced musician against an absolute professional and you would have a different perspective. ------------------- If you have an open mind about it. Let me give my opinion on just a short part of the video so you can see how I view the information. I'm not trying to go against or for the video, just showing you my thought process. Start video @3:50 Shugo, "Even if you are good at sparring with fugoshinai, it doesn't prove that you are good at fighting with a katana." My thoughts: I agree 100% with the statement above. There is some cross-over with regards to using a sword and shinai such as timing, range etc. Shugo, "Even if you are good at sparring with fugoshinai, it doesn't prove that you are good at fighting with a katana."... he goes on to say, "This is because of three main reasons. 1. It's not curved 2. The tsuka is round (Since the "blade" of the Shinai is also round, this also doesn't matter so much) 3. It's a lot lighter " The three reasons above are true, but I wouldn't consider those the "three main reasons". 1. Not curved - I agree, having a curved blade changes a lot about how it functions...but that doesn't matter if the blade-end doesn't have an edge at all. Katana have different sori [the specific curve each katana]. 2. The tsuka is round - Way more critical is the fact that there is no edge. Cutting with a sword is done by keeping the blade's edge on plane. If there is no plane then it is the same as swinging a bo (wooden staff). The round tsuka is secondary to that fact. Since it is round, you don't know where the blade (or mune) would be facing. You also can't take the exact same sword grip on a circular tsuka. The grip is so critical to cutting correctly (go rin no sho for reference). 3. It's a lot lighter. - Yes, that is true, it isn't steel. But just as important as weight is the weight distribution. The shinai has a homoginous weight from the kashira to the kisaki. A steel katana (full nakago or not) will have a lot more weight at kissaki's end. This changes a lot of things. In short, the three above are minor issues compared to... What they are doing is not really combat sparring. It is a game of tag. They are using the shinai like a stick and not like a sword. They are flicking with their hands and not actually doing technique that would actually cut through someone in combat. They are not moving and swinging the shinai as if it was a katana. They are using it as a stick with "flicking" movements. "Short sword mincing." Most [not all] of their techniques would not actually cut through someone. They wouldn't use that technique when trying to cut tatame (especially with a bamboo core). So, if they wouldn't work in combat, why are they using it when sparring? You see this a lot with sparring in modern martial-arts tournaments. Much of it is a and not representing combat. Really, there are other reasons why, but the above is 99% of it. If you aren't actually using a shinai as a sword then you aren't training in kenjutsu. Some other things, There is no edge, no mune. The blade end and the tsuka are both round so they can't evne hold the weapon correctly. If your grip is wrong, then that messes up everything. What they are doing is more like people sparring with "light sabers". So my major issue isn't that they are holding a shinai actually, it is that they aren't using it like a katana. Why do I think they aren't legit? Because of the culmination of all that I saw on their youtube channels.

@@aren8798all this video shows is his familiarity with the tools he has at hand.

I don’t think so. Most of the sparring carried out back in the days, by the same people we received our hundreds years old swordfighting knowledge was carried out in this way.

I suppose that's a good point, maybe I should say it's not really sparring by "modern definition" I personally don't see the point in not taking advantage of modern technology. That's akin to saying "we don't spar in this style because it's too dangerous or other such BS that was very common in martial arts in the past decades.@@FedericoMalagutti

I would argue that sparring in minimal gear has its advantages​ compared to using modern protective gear. For example, you are able to do techniques more realistically because you aren't restricted by bulky elbow pads or gorgets. Another is that you have much better visibility compared to a claustrophobic helmet that covers your peripheral vision. Even if no one solution is perfect, it's always good to take advantage of all the tools at your disposal instead of making the issue so black and white.

You can light spar without protective gear or least minimal gear. It's also a great way to restrain yourself and focus on doing the techniques properly, which some are difficult to do with a lot of gear on. I have difficulty doing a zwerchhau with lobster gloves for example

Yepp sparring light is great, but if I cant even poke you in the face without doing you grievous bodily harm we're not really "sparring" we're doing something else. @@badrequest5596

Ahahahahahah! First of all, I own this channel since seven years and I publish videos weekly. From your comment I understand you don’t know me or my channel as this is MY FIRST REACTION EVER on top of hundreds of videos. And second, I wrote an E-mail to Shogo and Seki-Sensei asking if they would be ok if I react to their videos, they answered yes, and they even encouraged me to do it more in the future. This is far more than what the average RU-vidr does btw. Thanks for your comment.

Wtf kind of comment is this ? I dont know where youre from but in the western world there is a thing known as fair use. Its not like he went to the bathroom while the video played without any interactions like some popular streamers enjoy doing these days.

I talk as much as I want

You talk big while knowing sh*t about any art. Anybody who has an iota of knowledge about swordfighting from both hema or kenjutsu can tell immediately how proficient and experienced is Seki sensei.

@@TomQuixoteDeLaGanja grazie!