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@@masterandshadow3944 The tachi is an earlier predecessor to the uchigatana which is often longer, more curved and designed with mounted combat in mind. This longer katana he pointed out was an "ōdachi," but there are also nōdachi... the names can be confusing but as I understand the main difference is how they were used. A "nōdachi" is an extra large sword a person might use but ONLY on the battlefield, because it is too big and cumbersome for them to wear as a sidearm in everyday life. An "ōdachi" on the other hand is a larger sword intended for a larger person that is going to be wearing it as his sidearm in everyday life. Shogo is using the term "katana" to refer to Japanese swords in general, while Sellswords Arts is using the term to refer to the "uchigatana," which is how the term "katana" is mostly used in the West.
Please make a reaction video with Seki-sensei about Hema techniques and similarities and differences compared to asamai shinryu. I'm keen that would be great with a lot of views.
Hey, didn't expect to get a reaction video made about me 😂 I appreciate you interjecting your knowledge on Japanese swordsmanship. There's a couple of points I think that might have gotten misinterpreted due to the length of the shorts. I try and get as much information as I can in in 60 seconds, but unfortunately I can only really scratch the surface. If you'd like to discuss any of the ideas in the videos you reviewed, I'd be happy to elaborate😊
I explained to one if my Marine friends that swords were sidearms, similar to a pistol in modern warfare. If it's out and in use, things are not going well.
European knights didn't use bows or guns much. Lance, sword, & dagger were the iconic knightly weapons, plus pollaxe, mace, & various other bludgeons. Some knights did use pistols, if you want to go that late.
Actually, it sounds like they're both in agreement except for subtle terminology and lack of experience with the others weapon. It could be interesting to do a live video together.
@@edschelchang6123 dude called someone transphobic for being gender nonconforming and then made fun of them for talking about conversion therapy on their page
I especially love it when Shogo-sensei starts talking about the varying applications of the katana in combat, samurai combat and weapons, and samurai armor. I watch Sellsword Arts, what can I say? This is a nice occasional treat.
I think it is nice that Shogo is so objective and not biased against the longsword or protective of the katana. Sellsword videos are pretty based on logic and any empty arguments against them would’ve been a bit lame. I personally am somewhat trained in the katana and I love it, but I wouldn’t put it against the long sword unless I am ready to trash my sword in one fight. Again, great video and thanks!
Sellsword's videos are based more on movie choreography though, which is heavily stylized to say the least. RU-vid channels like History Hit and Tod's Workshop are FAR better.
@@jsullivan2112 my channel is a 50/50 mix of real historical martial arts and choreography inspired by those martial arts. We actually do a lot of content about how those weapons actually work 😁
@@markostupar740 you can make the same Claim about any Japanese swordsmanship is well. Yes people pasted it down, but things change throughout the years. And there is no one correct way to use any of the techniques from German longsword. The reason we have many different interpretations, is because different people use the differently. We had examples of multiple different Masters using the same overall technique under different names with slight variations. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach, and there's endless nuanced when it comes to sword fighting. We have amazing scholars working hard on the original source material for many of these movies, combined with a continuous living knowledge of fencing. No one is actually using swords to kill each other anymore, we don't know exactly how these things would have been used back in the day. But both traditional Japanese martial arts, and historical European martial arts are widely considered it to be accurate representations and reconstructions of these practices.
@@SellswordArts Firstly, I really appreciate how both you and Shogo interact here. As other people have said, it's a real pleasure to see people behave in a human and respectful way, rather than a lot of the internet-bringing-the-worst-out-of-people crap that so often happens. If I may, I'd put a small caveat to the comment around making the same claim about Japanese swordsmanship. Things do change, yes. However, the difference is a *focus on preservation* and a *depth of biomechanical understanding* due to actual in-person teaching, handing down generations to generation. As someone who's experienced this lineage of direct teaching, it's truly quite different to be taught through feeling as opposed to through intellectual analysis of visual material (be that pictures or writing). The biomechanical depth is just... off the scale different. It is something that revival and recreation, in my view, just cannot achieve. To be clear, that doesn't mean that all koryu (and I'm specifically excluding things like kendo, iaido, and other gendai, here) are advanced at this, nor does this mean that HEMA is inferior. All I'm saying is that indeed the claim that Japanese swordsmanship is a dead martial art is not as true for koryu (choosing my words, here) as it is for HEMA. They're both anachronistic and 'dead' in the sense of 'not quite useful anymore', but one is naturally alive (although maybe on life support) while the other is more like Frankenstein's creature (I mean this in an entirely non-judgemental way! Just trying to paint the picture and stay in the metaphor.).
One of the best educators on RU-vid about Japan and Japanese culture. I haven't even watched the video yet. Still on the ad. Edit: Whoa. I watch Sellsword Arts. I never would've thought I'd see Shogo react to his videos.
Sword seller doesn't even know what a mangosh (European accessory blade ment to be underhanded) is. And underhand is a deflect block no hooking stupidity as he demonstrated.
The long sword was designed to use EVERY part as an offensive weapon. For instance, during a "lock-up" of blades, depending on where you are in relation to your opponent, you might hit them in the face with the large pointed hilt or the large weighted pommel. I've seen many old long swords made with sharpened spike-like hilts for stabbing and spiked pommels to cause greater damage in face strikes. Europeans got VERY good at hurting each other and made a LOT of very interesting innovations in that field.
Because of constant unending wars, they all were forced to evolve to keep up with each other. That's probably one of the reason of their domination in the world
@@yarikyaryiNo guns and for multiplication is the reason for this. During the Middle Ages Europe was certainly incapable of “dominating” the rest of the world.
I'm pretty sure the "katana", he is wielding is a type of federschwert. Its basically a type of super-durable iaito, or an unsharpened live blade. Some HEMA companies make these for japanese weapons because there a lot of us like me that do like cross pollination to maximize our swordsmanship. The companies that manufacture these just aren't as familiar with a katana's construction, and you end up missing pieces like the sageo, saya, ito, ect. They're just western style practice blades with a general ken shape.
I think the confusion results because some commenters without experience in European or Japanese swordsmanship see reverse grip being used as the default method of using a knife or sword by badass characters in movies or anime, and assume the same applies to reality. But from I've seen of the Kobudo and iai techniques you've shared, reverse grip with the katana is mostly for some iai or defensive techniques when you're ambushed or fighting at extremely close-quarters. Once you have any amount of distance from the opponent, it looks like katana martial arts also switch to the standard grip as much as possible. You can't really use two hands with reverse grip and you want two hands for the maximum amount of control and force I would assume. Similarly, there would be a few situations with European short bladed weapons (daggers & knives) where you might use a reverse grip--if you're ambushed or in close quarters, just like the katana, but maybe also if you're an armoured fighter who's gotten an armoured opponent on the ground and you're on top of them trying to finish them off with the rondel dagger: reverse or "icepick" grip might be best in that situation. Thanks for the great reaction, Shogo!
if you're interested about learning more about european swordsmanship and historical martial arts i recommend Björn Rüther's channel ! He's a german guy focusing on the german tradition of swordsmanship, which is also the one with the most records of as far as I know for pre-16th century martial arts, and he shows a wide range of weapons and techniques
I love RU-vid you get all this knowledge from experts. Then every now and again you get someone who have lived their art all their lives and are truly knowledgeable like Grandmaster Seki. Thank you Shogo. Take care. Stay safe 🙏 John and Kate
It’s funny how the sellsword guy recently said that if you aren’t practicing the martial art then you shouldn’t talk about it. I. His case he was saying peoples opinions were invalid because they didn’t practice HEMA as much as he did yet he talks about Japanese swords and stuff…
As a club that teaches Kenjutsu and HEMA, we love both of your channels. I really want to put together a "Katana vs Longsword" video very soon and would love for either of you to react to it! We did a Nodachi vs Longsword sparring video already but I would love to do something in depth. Thanks for the honest react Shogo and Sellsword!
This is absolutely wonderful because you can see that different techniques adapted to their own history but at heart they all have to be used by humans so the affinities are really a lot. It would be truly wonderful to have you and the sword guy to have some collaborations where you both analyse a specific situation and how both arts chose to deal with it depending on their historical facts! I would love it to pieces!!!!
I’ve always wanted to see your view on western swordsmanship, specifically involving Longswords and sabers, and this is a dream crossover for the sword community. Keep up the great work
Thank you for the video. Interesting to see the kind of swords compared a little. I look forward to talking to you and Seki Sensei in his next lesson. I hope, it's not a problem that I missed the previous lessons.
Having done both Iaido and Longsword, I can say that the fighting methods are quite similar. There are definitely similar considerations between both fighting methods when fighting against armour but the difference between the two is the form that armour comes in. An example is that we have helmets that are open, caged, or fully closed within European warfare. Comparatively, there is usually the face open on a samurai's helmet and the construction itself is made of separate pieces. This is, of course, only one piece of the armour puzzle as we also have other differences such as full harnesses of armour, as well as a multi-layer system of Plate, Maille, and Gambeson generally used in the European sphere in various fashions. Japanese armour also has a weakness that European armour does not in the form of the knot at the back which may, or may not, be covered but is the single point that could cause the "suit" to come apart.
This was really cool! Its so fun when two channels I like "run into each other" Thanks for the insight (open minded and respectful as always) I'm definitely going to look at your new sword channel
I think a collaborative effort between this channel & sellsword would be brilliant! Sort a compare & contrast notes thing/cultural exchange would be absolutely brilliant!
It is fun too hear about the differences & similarities between Eastern & Western weapons & martial arts. I'm glad both have community's keeping this knowledge alive.
Thank you for your comments on Sellsword's videos. I just recently discovered that channel and wondered how accurate his comments were regarding fighting with katana compared to longsword. Thank you and keep up the great videos.❤
a big misconception people have with swords is their durability, there is a lot of discourse about what breaks first. To put it simply, a katana has as much of a chance to break as any other sword. Every sword is really easy to break, that's why swordsmithing is a profession, a well-made sword of any origin can withstand blows like nothing happened to it, regardless of what steel/region it is from. The longsword and shortsword was notorious for breaking in battle, same with the saber, the gladius, and the Katana. History shows that the argument of sword vs sword only depends on two things: the forging of the sword, and the skill of its wielder.
What I love about watching this is to see two great content creators with different styles respecting the other person. It is my favorite part of things like debate and, sadly, something I don't see a lot of today. That said, I would love to see you two sparring, learning from each other's styles, and trying each other's blades to come back with insights.
....and forget about trying to use a Katana against chainmail....the links woven together disipate the kinetic energy from slashing attacks. each link transfers the cutting and slicing force more and more as the individual links start to band together, creating overlapping layers further absorbing and disipating the cutting or slicing force more and more until there is no more kinetic energy from the attack... ...it absolutely fascinating
I would love to see a longform conversation between @Let's Ask Shogo and @Sellsword Arts!! I have a ton of respect for both of you, and I bet we all have a lot to learn from one another.
A sparring session between HEMA and iado (both armored and un armored) would be amazing. Samurai vs knight is a fantasy for most historical weapons fans. The first advantage for samurai (possibly the only) is archery, as the European knights saw archery as a peasant weapon, but the fullness of western armor may negate that advantage. Most people would probably be more interested in single combat on foot, using comparable weapons. The ultimate test would probably be the long sword vs katana. Stylistically the long sword seems to have the advantage of range and versatility, but the katana techniques that are used against long weapons (spear,naganita)might be enough. Rapier would also be interesting, as it is fast and very stabby. Thank you Shogo, as always, your curiosity and respect are greatly appreciated and very contagious! Be safe
Rapier against a standard katana in an unarmored duel at distance sounds a bit unfair to the katana wielder. A longer katana would make things more interesting, as would having to draw & fight immediately at close range. I suspect the standard katana would have the advantage in certain scenarios with drawing included.
Iaïdo is not about fighting at all, it is more a meditation pratice, with a weapon and how to hold it. It is not like kobudo style, iaïjutsu or kenjutsu.
The katana he is holding is a blunt trainer sparring sword. That's why it looks so different. Most swords in his videos are sparring swords and unsharpened.
Imagine someone who has almost as little knowledge with katanas as you do with long swords that’s sell sword he’s great at what he does and constantly corrects and tries to educate himself tho very noble
Foot work is different. Especially between schools. Striking is different especially between schools, even more so from kendo to sword cutting. Both were used against armored opponents when alternatives weren't available, which often means the blades get damaged or broken. Blades get damaged against blades as well, even if not ideal in a peaceful time in combat you can only do so much to prevent edge damage. A curved blade can still thrust and damage armor, techniques for this for Katana often aim at gaps which might have chainmail at most and the thrust is sufficient to break through. The concern for the attacker is whether or not you get your weapon stuck. Its not as efficient as another weapon type dedicated for thrusting, but it isn’t so inferior as to be pointless when you're in a situation where the sword is what you have.
From what I was given to understand, a short piercing weapon like a long dagger was utilized during some periods at least for fighting against armor specifically to be used in close combat attacking the opening areas of the armor (armpit, behind knee, groin, neck etc...)
Very entertaining. Thx for this video. .. As far as I could see it, the Katana and the swords he was using in his examples seem to be so called "theatre weapons". They are usually blunt and only made to look like the real deal from afar, but very much likely are not as refined as the originals.
This was a wonderful video my friend! As someone who practices Hema, I have a ton of respect for Japanese swordsmanship. I hope that one day people will recognize the differences, strengths, and weaknesses of the Katana and Longsword, and that people will realize that one is not inherently better than the other.
I find it interesting how in fighting against armor, in Japan you get the response “pull a gun,” while in Europe you get the response “hit them with a hammer/cross guard.”
As a fan of both your channels was really happy to see you react to Sellsword videos in a constructive way. Hope to soo a collaboration some time even just to see you both discuss your preferred styles of swordmanship
I have been told that the tenouchi for both kendo and iaido are mechanically identical, the difference being that in iaido the tenouchi persists for the duration of the cut, whereas in kendo there is no cut so the shinai is allowed to bounce. This is different of course in the kendo kata. Also no one seems to level the criticisms of unrealistic straight light weight training simulators towards shinkage-ryu which uses the fukuro shinai in their kata, or niten ichi-ryu which uses spatula thin bokuto.
I train Yagyu shingan ryu and most of the stuff we learn is meant to deal with armored opponents. I am still beginner so haven't done much katana training yet but I am sure same goes for the katana techniques we learn.
I make metal on metal sparing Katana, my customers appreciate that I put time and thought into traditional fittings and a blade that looks correct in every detail. That being said, people have to pay me a lot of money for this highly personalized item and the Sellswords Arts is using a very practical durable and likely affordable item which can take blade on blade contact for decades before replacement, I would recommend this option to beginners and people on a budget, it is cooler long term to enjoy blade time with your friends than feeling sad that the really expensive perfect replica is scuffed up or taken an edge compression on the first pass. I warrantee my blades for only 3 year of specifically stated use at the time of purchase and the fittings for the same, I expect that a finely crafted item crashed into another item again and again can only take so much before it looks damaged significantly.
8:41 I'm just gonna say how impressed by this cut I am. That mat had another 10 seconds to figure out it was actually cut and fall down, if not for the following cuts. And the 3rd cut in mid air was cut while the mat was spinning and timed perfectly to hit it perpendicular. The amount of mats getting cut just to reach that level of edge alignment must be staggering.
I suspect he's refering to the fact that longswords usually have large, weighted pommels, which pull the center of gravity closer towards the handle. From a physics perspective, one could argue that the closer the center of gravity is to the handle, the more nimble the sword will be BUT this comes at a cost of cutting power and vice versa. The more heft to the blade, the more powerfully it'll chop and cut, but also it will make the sword more difficult to control.
To all the Japanese speakers in the audience, I got a questions (and sorry, I don't have the Kanji for it), what does something like "Saishin Tyekikyoyo" mean? It's a phrase or word said sometimes by the character Hayato in the game Shadow Tactics when you select him. It's been rattling in my brain for a long time.
Thank you very much for the interesting content, I really love these longer form videos! It would be really interesting to see you test his hypothesis, by going through some kata with a European long sword, and hearing your thoughts…
the differences between different arts, like kendo and iaido, are extensive. they are completely different, and as musashi said "become acquainted with all arts." this is why i'm trying to study as many japanese sword styles as possible, got 3 down right now but i am no expert so i'm still training!
Not just arts, but even schools (not sure if you meant that). I learned iaido for a bit but was told that the focus isn't all encompassing. We were a mid-range school where the school focused around 30 wazas. While other schools could have as little as 11, or as many as 90. Ours specifically was more focused in techniques to be used in formal occasions (inside a house with a guest). So while we did learn with katana, we also practiced with tanto and wakizashi. And a lot of kneeling. None of our techniques were battlefield techniques.
One point i would like to make about the thrusting capabilities of Katana and long sword depending on which type of long sword a katana absolutely murders the long sword in thrusts. It should go down to what style of combat you prefer to determine what blade/sword to go with.
Interesting video as always, although I feel I must point out that valid kendo strikes should not bounce back. "Cutting" in kendo is expressed with tenouchi (briefly tightening the grip at the moment of impact), which stops the shinai from bouncing back up too much. Doing suburi repeatedly like in the video does have a back and forth motion to it, but there should always be a small persistency at the end of the swing in part due to tenouchi. That being said, i totally agree it isn't a slicing motion and using kendo techniques with a real katana would likely end up damaging it more than anything
in a fight between a samurai and a medieval knight. Would win the most skilled opponent, making the whole argument pointless. However, something that came out of the whole debacle, is more people sharing their knowledge in both subjects. That is something that makes me happy.
So, I'm actually a fan of both your content and sellsword martial arts content. Seeing this makes me think you guys doing a collaboration would actually help foster a better understanding of both European and Japanese sword based martial arts. Just an idea 👀
One thing the standard katana & traditional Japanese martial arts seem to excel at is fighting from the draw. Those reverse-grip drawing techniques highlight this. A standard katana, while short compared with most longswords, could be drawn effectively at ranges where a typical longsword (or rapier) would be useless. Such a katana offers many advantages for practical everyday carry over longer sidearms. I'm much more familiar with European martial arts, though I have some basic knowledge of Japanese military history & martial arts. I don't know of many European fencing manuals that pay much attention to drawing the sword & using it immediately. Girard Thibault did, but he favored a rapier with a blade that was a touch tricky to draw even though it was shorter than the outrageously long rapiers certain other systems used.
Spellforce is saying if you know how you cut with one sword, then the other sword doesn't change because push and pull and following through with the hips is generic for any sword you pick up; just the balance point and the alignment of the blade moves slightly.
The tsuba is a ring, so it covers the hand from everywhere, but the crossguard is basically a line and it doesn't protect that much. Also the tsuba is actually a small enough disk that allows you reverse-grip the tsuka, if the diameter of the disk handguard tsuba was longer than it would be uncomfortable to grip it reversed. So, it's big enough to protect your hands when gripped normally, but in the same time small enough to allow reverse grip. This is why it works in eastern martial arts and not in the western. It all depends on the handguard shape.
Keep in mind that when he speaks about swords being ineffective against armor, he likely refers to directly hitting the armor, rather than looking for openings in the design.
You and sellswordarts should do a collaboration and talk about the differences between the style of weapons you know as well as teaching each other some thing about the respective style.
Worth noting, having used both weapons extensively, I'd actually prefer a Katana for thrusting, and that includes against armor. The chisel shape of the kisaki along with the additional hardness and rigidity of a Katana over a Longsword makes them significantly better suited for piercing armor, all the way up the plate, which a Longsword cannot pierce either. Of course against plate you use the crossguard of the Longsword.
Sellsword arts has a playlist called the great reverse grip experiment. That is were the controversy is coming from, from his channel, in case you want to check it.
It's interesting to see people who practice different martial arts react to techniques or weapons from other martial arts , in this case l appreciate the corrections that Shogo did , even though l'm more interested in the Long Sword's fighting style , and the same would go vice versa . Furthermore also this was a nice video .
Holding the long sword by the blade to use the cross guard was a special move to pierce into the enemy's heart from above the shoulder between the clavicle. It had a Latin name but I forgot that far into it. 😅
The react I am definitely hoping to get. Perhaps a collab if possible in the future. It seems like both Kenjutsu and HEMA are very logical to fight their corresponding opponents. Nobody is holding onto useless techniques as both were developed and evolved from decades or even centuries, of warring periods. Now that Katana/Long Sword debate is pretty much over. I would love to see some content on European and Japanese polearms uses and potential differences.
The longsword will not cut through plate armor. It is not meant to. It is meant either to bludgeon the adversary or thrust between the armor plates. It will thrust through chainmail though. Armour plate was not used in the early middle ages, chainmail was more common. The longsword does not have such a refined cutting edge as the katana as that would make it fragile. The primary weapon of the medieval knight is the lance for the charge. In the melee he will use the mace or the warhammer. The sword is a last resort. The sword is more of a status symbol or for duelling, just like the katana.
(12:54) Well what's your suggestion is more getting around armor then to actually deal with it head on. Which is also something that Western did they with the plate armor. They tried to go for the joints or any overlap that they could slide into for example.🤔
Reverse grip is only used in very rare occasions like an enclosed space or sometimes when wielding two blades. If your fighting multiple opponents & your doing a “winding mountain path” as described in the book of five rings the defensive blade can be wielded in reverse grip if fighting in close quarters or with a companion to tighten up the “kill zone” and keep the blade moving.
