I love your channel! I went to the Met three weeks ago to see "Turandot" and hear Tetelman in "La Rondine." He sounded fine in the house. Although Mr. Gelb came before the curtain to advise that he was suffering from allergies and asked for the audience's patience and understanding. Just as you write, he does seem to force the high notes. This was more noticeable on recordings than in house. The guy has the right sound for a tenor. I just love him! He and Angel Blue sounded divine in the duets. 60 year old Alagna stopped the show with 'Nessun dorma' and his lyric voice rang out throughout the vast house. It is a well preserved and well protected voice! I was worried he would be inaudible.
Very interesting! This reminds me of Bryn Terfel, some youtube channel said he has a small voice, but when I heard him singing wagner live, every note was clearly audible. Not the prettiest or the most consistent timber, sometime he liked to sing straight, sometimes too open for my liking, but overall very robust.
An erudite and well-reasoned antidote to the toxicity of certain other opera channels. You make a highly reasonable critique of what took place in the theatre. I first saw Grigolo a few years ago as Romeo and was truly stunned by the projection of his voice. Perhaps he's not so artistically disciplined, but the guy can sing.
I watched both Toscas in DOP. Grigolo at that night got booed after E lucevan le stelle and the guy who booed him was sitting right front of me....After the La vita He shouted with the Wrong accent " Ritorna a concervatorio" And booed!
Hi AfroPoli I attended the Tosca performance on Friday March 10th and was very much impressed with Tetelman. His "vittoria" b-flat was incredibly loud, and I loved that he didn't have any wobble or too broad vibrato, I agree about his voice being medium-sized voice, though. Do you think he could (maybe not now) make a good Radames, Don Carlo or Turiddu?. I love your videos, as a 20 y/o opera fan, it's great to have such an excellent channel to learn about how opera is supposed to sound. Best regards, Jonas
Hi there! Thank you for your kind words. Tetelman and Radames? I doubt it. Radames is incredibly hard. Turiddu maybe. But I think that more lyrical repertoire suites him better. Des Grieux (Massenet), Rodolfo, Edgardo maybe. You know, they offered Radames and Andrea Chenier to Gianni Raimondi, he turned both roles down, saying: I can sing them, but they aren't right for my voice and timbre. He was smart.
My hope is that Martin Muehle will do Radames, Turiddu in Berlin. I saw him as Chenier last year and am going to see him in Manon Lescaut in May and couldn't be more hyped.
Thank you for your astute and wise comments on today's singers. You are right on the money. Tetelman is a light lyric tenor, but because he is tall and handsome, he is being pushed into roles that don't suit him at all. He has fallen into a spread, smile technique that makes his sound small and thin except for the highest notes. Muehle, on the other hand, sings with a deep, full throated sound that roars out into the theater. He too is handsome, but at 54, the boys who control the opera world don't find him sexy. He certainly is sexy, vocally and visually...in my opinion. Why is it so important for a male singer to look like a GQ model? Was Luciano or Bergonzi a matinee idol? Not at all. But they could sing! Those were different days. They wouldn't stand a chance today. And Grigolo??? He is just belting in a thin unsupported yell. @@AfroPoli
Thank you for this kind of videos. Amazing. Just amazing. Calm, intellectual, noble and concrete. It's some great pleasure to listen to such a review. Your words about Grigolo shocked me. Didn't expect that he can sing because his tapes are generally awful. Hernandez is terrific. It's one of my old dreams to hear her alive but the latest events like the pandemic and the war at Ukraine don't let to simply travel around the world from Russia. Non c'e niente da fare, questa e la vita, vero? NB! Your speaking voice is so nice and warm like a soft toy from the childhood. I still hope to listen to new recordings of your singing. I remember videos you uploaded years ago. Heaven.
Thank you for another excellent video. I'm surprised to learn that Grigolo actually has a well projected voice that can fill an auditorium. That alone may not make him the ideal Cavadarossi, but nevertheless commands some respect.
I caught this production of Tosca two days ago at the Deutsche Oper Berlin, and it was the third overall time I caught it. I wanted to see and hear Saioa Hernandez as Tosca because she was supposed to sing on that day aside from the third. However, I was shocked to know that she was replaced by another soprano, Natalya Romaniw, who did a fine job as Tosca but it is not a voice I would associate with that role, as she was more known for her interpretations of Rusalka, Tatyana, Iolanta, and Alice Ford. Nevertheless, Ms. Romaniw did a serviceable job as Tosca, and I pray that she remains cognizant of her choice of roles. Jonathan Tetelman, on the other hand, I loved him but with some reservations. He tackled the high notes as bravely as possible and he had a good technique, but I do agree with you, AfroPoli, that his voice is a decent lyric tenor. He would never be caught dead singing Radames or Calaf. Instead, he should be singing Rodolfo, Edgardo, Werther, Des Grieux from Massenet's Manon, Ruggero Lastouc from Puccini's La Rondine, Nadir from Bizet's Les Pecheurs de Perles, and Pelleas from Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande. I too hope that he stays consistent with his growth as a singer and makes wise choices with his repertoire.
The public's sickly and anti-artistic obsession with high notes has made singers less and less conscientious about their medium voices. Either you can't hear anything as soon as the orchestra plays more than mezzoforte, or it is forced and sounds bad (there are always exceptions with singers that can adapt the technique for their own voice, of course.). And the medium is almost the whole of an opera, come on...! You can't hear anything in the Aria except the final high notes, how can that satisfy anyone?? The heart of the opera is not the high notes. High notes is the garniture. Having only high notes is not art, it's acrobacy, and artifice. AND singers really really need to learn to say NO to a repertoire that is NOT for them. Be humble about your abilities and limitations and respect the composers and the audience. Because they hear that you don't belong there.
Every single role regardless if it's for a soubrette or a Verdi Baritone all have their meatiest singing in the middle voice -- the basic foundation for singing. This middle voice is how one establishes the foundation of the voice known as "voce di petto" or simply known as Chest voice. It is a huge problem when you have sopranos who sing Lucia (repertoire that Malibran and Giuditta Pasta performed) and the only part of the stave that you can hear from them are C5 and up! It not only depletes the purpose of said individual being able to sing this hard repertoire but falsely makes the statement that just anyone and everyone whether they be developed or not can sing said repertoire. Regardless of the fact that it's bel canto, it was appointed upon all students of this school of teaching to have the low notes, chest tones, the passages and of course the high notes. This has all but gone today, sadly, and it shows in the lack of training and overall preparation of the singers. Who's advising them to sing repertoire that would expose their weaknesses instead of highlight their strengths? Why take another role from a much more deserving younger star-in-the-making? These questions need to be asked but unfortunately, they won't be.
Indeed, think about it, high notes naturally project pretty easily so you don't need to make them as loud as possible, middle voice is where the training should be focus on.
I wrote out a long message disagreeing, but you're right. Modern singers are inaudible outside of their high notes, and forgiving that is unartistic. That said, high notes are extremely important to me, and most modern singers reveal all of their flaws in these notes.
Please don't stop making these kinds of videos they're fascinating. Out of curiosity, how does Klaus Florian Vogt compare volume-wise with the tenors you mentioned as being loudest?
Listen to him and make your own judgement. For me he is a perfect fit for the early music field, nicely for Buxtehude, Bach among others. For the real opera world WAGNER????... NO WAY !!! IT IS A TOTAL INSULT AND DISGRACE.
My son took his B A in Music Theatre Studies at Bayreuth and, like all faculty-members, was constantly present at rehearsals and performances in the Festspielhaus. All Music Theater Scientists called Klaus-Florian Vogt only “Klausi-Mausi” - and that’s about everything to be said of his voice….
Singers today who are hyped to the extreme are mic'd. This guy certainly is. He sings almost everything in falsetto. No way that his voice is appropriate for Wagner, much less anything else. @@Olgaalwina
I saw Hernandez as Tosca at the Deutsche Oper in January 2020, there was such a difference between her and the other singers, she was great. There was no fluttering in her voice back then, the high notes were very good, but not rock solid, like her beautiful chest voice. Definitely a very audible difference in the transition from chest to head and some middle notes were murky. Also as you point out, great stage presence. I've had some lessons with her and she's also extremely nice as a person! To my astonishment, I have learned that Gigolo's name is pronounced Grigòlo.
Hi! I saw Hernandez in Tosca twice last September in Paris. There's alot to say but she saved the night both times. Terfel was screaming, inaudible and very vulgar. Thankfully, the second night, Markov managed to make a decent Scarpia. Calleja was an awful Cavaradossi but I'm not sure he's able to sing anything well. All that to say, even if the rest of the cast sucks, you can be sure the performance will be good if Saioa Hernandez is in it. Tosca is a very good opera to get a feel of what singers are capable of, it needs good singing and good acting and she can do both equally well. No singer is perfect anyway. Keep up the great work, cancel culture will cancel everything but mediocrity.
As always, a highly informative video. I have never been a fan of Grigolo, though, but I suppose that is a matter of personal preference. To me, he sounds extensively wobbly and unstable. Conversely, I find Tetelman's timbre and vibrato relatively beautiful.
@@nedkeene Interesting to hear that. Perhaps I had the mischance to listen to some bad recordings of his. I am glad you enjoyed the performance, a good Werther can be something to die for. I then shall give Grigolo more listens.
Thank you so much for this videos. I heard Grigolo at the Met singing Romeo and Cavaradossi (5 or 6 years ago)… I was shocked and amazed by how loud he was. Way louder than everybody else in both productions. Became a fan. I commented about it on another RU-vid channel and was told that he is usually put a mic 🎤. Does anybody know anything about it?
Coincidentally enough, I've heard all of these singers (except for Tetelman) for the first time live in within the last three months. All of them at el Liceu in Barcelona. I heard both Grigolo and Radvanovsky in Tosca and then Hernández (The H is silent, btw) and Grigolo in Trovatore. It was Grigolo's role debut as well. I won't comment on the productions because it would take me all day. I was just as surprised as you were with Grigolo. From recordings I expected a small and constricted voice, only to be faced with reality: one of the largest and better projected voices I've heard live. I was in denial throughtout the first act of Tosca. I couldn't believe my ears. But the voice was there. It is quite penetrating and carries tremendously well even at el Liceu, which is a big theater and has terrible acoustics, too. Radvanovsky was just as you said. Large voice from around the middle F until the top C, but it's not a beautiful timbre nor is she a good linguist. The italian always sounds terrible and the middle and low voice are muddy and nasal. The high notes are probably the reason as to why she's still having a very succesful career. Going back to Grigolo, conceding the fact that the voice is large and well projected is more or less where the good things end. The style, the phrasing and the color of the voice are completly wrong. He has a constat "crying" in his voice that can be interestingly used from time to time in specific passages, but it's there perennially. It becomes annoying after 5 minutes. And it is completly true what you said about the going back and forth with the dynamics every other phrase. It's strange and tasteless. He reminds me of Meli. RU-vid experts keep saying that the voice is not large enough to be singing Verdi. That's not true at all. He produces a big sound, but it's not a beautiful sound. It has a lot of tension and some nasality. It's unpleasant but it can be heard with ease. As for Hernández, I remember telling you about her a couple of years ago in one of your Perle Bianche videos. She is good. She is very very good, specially compared to what we have around in the market. The timbre is not especially beautiful, but the voice is large enough for the repertoire that she does. She is in command of the instrument except perhaps for the very highest notes, which to me still sound constricted and somewhat uncontrolled. The attack is strange... I can't quite put my finger around it. I will have to see her live a bit more to really understand what it is that doesn't fully convince me. I have some friends in whose taste I trust that have heard Tetelman live. They said the same thing as you. Inexplicably, the voice grows several times larger in the high notes, but it does so in spite of his vocal health and relaxation. It's painful to watch him go over a G, but interestingly enough, the voice doesn't sound as pushed as you would imagine from seeing him. It's a strange case and I'm very eager to listen to him live. Insomma, I agree with most of your points and have finally decided to never judge a singer from recordings again. I have recently joined a young artists program at el Teatro Real in Madrid and from the audition videos that are published on their youtube channel I thought that my new colleagues would be much worse than what they sound like in person (I hope the same goes for me). From recordings you can get an idea about the phrasing, the style and some similar things, but cannot truly judge the real nature of the human operatic voice.
I agree he’s not Corelli. But silly labels don’t define his voice. It’s unfair to handicap your views on a voice by silly comparisons. No one will ever be Corelli. Who, of course, was subject to a lot of criticism throughout his career. Nothing changes. Except in retrospect.
Very interesting commentary. Here in the US, if you say anything negative about Sondra Radvanovsky, it means you must be a bad person. She has strengths: the voice cuts through an orchestra very easily (quite thrilling at points in the Verdi Requiem) and she has a technique that allows her to swell and diminuendo throughout her range, even at the very top. However, I've never liked the actual sound of her voice and I'm not sure if it means she's past her prime, or if it's always been like that. To me, she sounds like I'm listening to an LP with fuzz on the needle.
A great basso Peter Martinčič just did Rigoleto with Galli in France and he could not express how great Galli is...An incredible talent. He again conducted from memory...in his words: He knows every word of the opera and every cord.
I watched him as Calaf July 11th 2023 in Madrid in a performance where he claimed to be indisposed, but not so much as to withdraw, and if what I heard wasn't his most, he must be mindblowing when in full health. It's been his debut in the opera house and I'd say the audience was quite satisfied with his work.
@@alejandrotm yes he is amazing. He sounds like the old school singers from the past. I was on stage with him and on stage his voice sounds "slim", people complain about it because they are not used for that raw sound. But from further away its absolutely a huge voice! Amazing! People nowadays think, the voice must sound "thick" when they stand next to a singer. Thats why we only have those woofy falsetto, weak singers nowadays. Horrible!!!
@@elly3479 that seems to be the physical principle behind the voice projection towards the audience, that you barely hear yourself and those close to you hear it less than those afar. I was seated the farthest up and above from the stage and his voice travelled all the way up, same as Saioa Hernández in this production, large voices filling the theatre. Grigolo seems to have some career already. I saw him in a 2010 production of Rigoletto, the Duke being more fitted to his voice than Cavaradossi. Muehle by the way could be a great Cavaradossi 😎
Grigolo's voice is lacking in a beautiful color and core. It sounds pushed and stressed to the limit. Likewise, Tetelman. Today's singers all seem to sing in a wide, spread technique. On Broadway, it is called belting. Bright, in the throat and without any thrust or power. The middle and lower notes don't project at all. Also....the so called "elephant in the room" that no one dares admit....the use of body microphones is ubiquitous these days. Watching the interview that you made with Muehle, I was happy to hear what he had to say about his technique. Also, he is a very smart man. He is NOT going to give away his technique in some interview. He demonstrates it thrillingly in his performances....so anyone wondering how he sings the way he does need only to watch him. Technique is not mysterious....it is simple and powerful...WHEN the singer doesn't smile and spread his mouth. Muehle never smiles when he sings. His jaw is dropped long and his mouth is in a big square shape. Singers....learn by watching.
I must say that I'm surprised by the verdict, but I am constantly reminded that most people are nowhere near as sensitive to wobbles as I am. Tetelman sounded 10x better than Grigolo in the excerpts you posted. You mention Tetelman's strain...what is more indicative of strain than Grigolo's giant wobble? I guess if you hated wobbles as much as me, you wouldn't be giving us these interesting videos, because you would just avoid the opera house, lol. Mach weiter, bitte!
Haha, thank you. I hate wobbles, but I’ve kind of gotten used to them. As you say, otherwise you could just stop attending performances altogether. Tetelman somehow records well. In the house, the sound is small until he reaches the upper register which he opens with a lot of force. It’s really off-putting. I don’t think he’s going to last long.
@@AfroPoli Sorry for the excessively long upcoming comment. I have seen tenors live who do the same thing...and there's a LiVigni video out there where he says Lauri-Volpi recommended doing just that: saving your voice in the middle and exploding on top. I agree that it comes off as unmusical. As for the general loudness, I guess it just goes to show what so many people have noticed, from Crescenti to Garcia to us, from singing themselves and going to opera houses: bright voices are louder than dark voices, but dark voices often sound more impressive on record. Of course, people don't like to say "louder," so they invent "singer's physics" whereby how well a voice is heard is somehow not the exact same phenomenon as how loud it is, and whereby some sounds can defy all science by somehow getting louder when they are farther away, but anyway... "If after every explosion the glottis closes completely, each impinges sharply on the tympanic membrane, and the sound heard is bright or ringing. But if the glottis is imperfectly closed, and a slight escape of air unites the explosions, the impressions upon the tympanum are blunted, the sound being then veiled. The waste of air can be verified by placing a lighted match before the mouth. The brighter sound does not stir the flame, the veiled one will." From Manuel Garcia Jr., Hints on Singing (This book, in its original English version, claims to be translated from French; however, I have never once seen a French version of this work. Does one exist? Did he even write this? At any rate, he talks about veiled sounds in his other works quite a bit as well) But all that said, I actually almost never have trouble gauging vocal size from recordings. There are of course limitations, and it gets much harder after the early 1960s, when the tech gets really good and everything is blown up and reverbed, but I am rarely surprised when I read contemporary reviews, because I've taught myself what to listen for. 1. How low-lying is the voice? Ceteris paribus, a lower, heavier voice will be louder in the same range as a high-lying voice. 2. How much chest is used? Chest = speaking quality (buzz, clarity, etc.). The more speech quality I hear in higher notes, the more I can tell the voice is dramatic. More lyrical voices tend to sound (at least a little) more like pale falsetto in their upper reaches, losing some core firmness. 3. How dark is it? If two singers use a lot of chest and have heavy voices, but one is darker (without sounding veiled!), the darker one is typically a bigger, louder voice. 4. How does the voice behave? How easily does it jump from note to note: does it flow like water, or is it a bit declamatory, like a herald giving a speech to a crowd? Choppier legato is an indicator of greater vocal weight, which means loud. 5. Are there any live recordings? If so, compare to other singers, orchestra, etc. Do all the other factors remain the same in the live recording? Then I add all these factors together and make a judgment call. It's not perfect, but it's almost always close enough. Sometimes I get a bit surprised. I used to think that Tibbett must have been louder than Ruffo because of his much lower voice, but when I listen closely, I hear the amount of chest Ruffo brings through his middle and top, and I realize why he was considered louder. Battistini had a much louder voice than Renaud, and that can be confusing at first because of Renaud's timbre, but when you hear how it pales at the top, you get it. Listening to bellowers like Noté and Ruffo, you hear that very bright, very chesty sound from top to bottom. Sometimes it is monochromatic, but it's an aural cue for volume. Btw, I think you said once that Kraus sounded louder live than Giacomini. That just doesn't seem possible, or else Kraus would be singing dramatic rep. Maybe Giacomini was drowned out by the heavier orchestration, or maybe Kraus was only louder on his highest notes (which would still surprise me)?
Tetelman the new Kaufmann o yeah baby!! and vittorio the new Joseph oveja, please let the golden age of the opera rest in holy peace, opera today is a peace of SH((( great content Afropoli appreciate it, you are amazing, greetings from Bulgaria.
The segment about Birgit Nilsson falling out with John Culshaw due to the Gotterdammerung recording is incorrect. She did have issues with the sound of her voice on the recording until someone checked her playback machine and discovered that the equaliser settings had been changed thereby completely diminishing the sound of her vocals. Once the equaliser settings had been corrected her voice resonated with all the power we hear on the discs. If anything, recordings simply didn’t recreate the sheer power of her voice as live recordings did. This anecdote was told in (I believe), the Ring Resounding book. I don’t have it to hand to check but have definitely read it.
Thank you very much for your insightful comments. I’m in London and attend ROH very often. I would love to hear your opinion of the singers we have here. I saw Anna Pirozzi as Turandot, Friday past and she was great! Conducted by Pappano…
In an attempt to update my watching preferences, I've recently substituted Grigolo and Tetelman both for Domingo as my Cavaradossi of choice. Grigolo's performance of e lucevan le stelle pierces my heart (acting chops), and Tetelman has physical grace that is extremely charismatic.
I am generally a fan of Tetelman, but I agree with some of your concerns with his voice. I'm hoping he gets better with age, as many great tenors did. I think his switch from baritone was a smart choice, but perhaps he just needs more time.
I do love your critics of operas and singers since you do possess great knowledge about the art of singing and the machinations of the Opera world and those in power in it.
Thank you for the review! I heard Radvanovsky (as Amelia in Un ballo in maschera), Grigolo (as Hoffmann), and Hernández (in Tosca) in La Scala and Hernández in Deutsche Oper (in Tosca). I can only confirm your impressions. Grigolo has a huge voice, as Martin Mühle (whom I heard in Deutsche Oper as Chenier). But he often reduces it to a soft, bearly hearable pianissimo. Radvanovsky has a huge, but most of the time unpleasant voice. Hernández is my favourite soprano, with her well developed and courageously used chest voice. Interestingly, she is coached by her husband who doesn't sing in the very top theatres.
Grigolo and Kraus have bright forward placement which gives them carrying power. Kraus could be heard for miles. Giacomini had a large, beefy voice, and squillo, and it carried fine but didnt penetrate in the same way . Very interesting.
Radvanovsky was never and it will never be a dramatic soprano,,,, she is a wonderful full lyric with easy projection ,,, she also has an intelligent knowledge of her instrument which makes her save the voice in the right moments and do so with full expression, which allows her to give it all in some of the most dramatic moments,,, a smart singer working well, whose nature is that of a full lyric….
I am surprised at your reasonable take on Grigolo. Being on RU-vid has made me think that he's nothing more than a screamer but I am shocked that he's somewhat audible. The timbre really is what sets him down
Having seen the strange gap between recording and live performance does make one more wary of criticising singers online, I think. Stefan Vinke's voice seemingly does not record well, but I heard him live as von Stolzing in Meistersinger, and he was wonderful.
Nice video, more people should know about this. Regarding of projecting the voice: it's simply the matter of the development and balance of the larynx and breathing muscles/aircompression. Even if a singer has a more lyric voice should sound balanced and both Grigolo and Tetelman sounds very poor but in a different way... no real chiaroscuro because of the lack of squillo.
Something tells me those figures holding their thumbs un culure these days are not ashamed or afraid of censorship, as long as it's their thumb pressing on others, not the other way around... It fits what one can see of what's being done to culture... seizable intersecitons of ideological bubbles...
Watched Daphne and Jenufa at the Staatsoper and Das Wunder der Heliane and Elektra at Deutsche Oper recently, I agree with your comment regarding the superiority of Deutsche Oper. At the Staatsoper the acoustics seem to emphasize the orchestra instead of the singers, the orchestra sounded magnificent and gigantic but I could barely hear the singers(especially when they are deep into the stage, for some reason when they're close to the edge of the stage they can be heard!). I find the acoustics at the Deutsche Oper to be a bit dry, but the balance between the singers and orchestra is always quite good. I do not understand how Staatsoper, an opera house that is supposed to be top notch, has bad acoustics for opera. In fact I think that's why you said in your previous video that you can't hear the singers and that the orchestra is too loud, I had the same experience for Daphne and Jenufa. Luckily there is the Philharmonie for superb acoustics :)
The acoustics of all 3 Berlin opera houses - Deutsche Oper, Staatsoper and Komische Oper - are deeply problematic, imho. At the Staatsoper, if you sit in the parterre/ground floor, the orchestra can drown out the singers (as per our experience in Daphne), or, if you sit overlooking the stage on the first "floor" (erste Rang), the voices dominate but the orchestra sound is seriously compromised. The perfect solution is sitting at the back of the first "floor", where the sound is perfectly balanced and the view of the stage is good. The acoustics at Deutsche Oper, meanwhile, is unlovely - dry and cold - and again, especially the late 19th/early 20th mammoth orchestra operas can bury the voices. The best seats here acoustically are at the front of the first floor/erste Rang.
@@dphillips4877 Thanks for the tips! I'll try the seats you mentioned. I've tried watching Die Walküre Deutscheoper erste Rang, but close to the left side of the theater so the sound was just OK, everything sounded distant. I agree with you that the sound of Deutsche Oper is dry, but at least I can still hear what the orchestra is playing and what the singers are singing :) It is quite crazy that there are so many venues here and only Philharmonie is great haha. Konzerthaus is OK if you sit at the first few rows.... Kind of sad that recordings do often sound better than live performances.
I love your channel. Lots of truth to the art of singing. I saw La Rad in Medea at the Metropolitan. I hated it beyond hated. She was awful, and she got ovaciónes. I got home and put Maria on to deliver me from the overacted, pushed, Medea horror. I loved everything Tetelman sang here. Cheers.
How / from where would you record, to gauge one's voice in... well would it even make sense, a smaller church? Where I have been fortunate to be let practise since this year, it's maybe 20m wide, 10m deep (8m from the pianoforte - 2m after the walls/windows - to the other wall, and a skewed roof, average height 5.6m or so (yes I brought a laser meter but no paper + pencil, lol). They could fit some more, but it's below 80 seats in there. When noone else there, I could add maybe 20% more room by opening all doors to the bigger corridor. Can I get a good idea whether I'm projecting well enough there? With zero audience, it probably sounds very different than with 50..70 people with lots of clothing. And I'm not sure whether it makes sense to put a mic stand at head height between the front row (empty) seats, or rather just two upright piano lengths like I've been doing. "From the audience" seems right at first, but, there is none :)
You mentioned at certain point that the only singers more penetrating than Grigolo are Martin Muehle and Alfredo Kraus. About the latter, what do you mean by penetrating? Could Kraus have sung a Cavaradossi? I just want to know what you mean with your terms. Vocal acoustics are fascinating and as a singer have always struggled to understand it.
Well, interesting question. I think he could have done so easily. His voice was really loud. It carried exceptionally well and was rock solid. In Tosca, I heard Giacomini, Domingo, Pavarotti, Aragall, Shicoff. Pavarotti was OK volume wise, but his voice was a bit thin for the role. Giacomini's voice was good, but it did not have Kraus's ring. Aragall was rather small for the role. Domingo was loud when he pushed. Shicoff was good. But Kraus's voice somewhat had more substance than any of the before mentioned.
@@AfroPoli thanks for your prompt answer. Pavarotti thinner than Kraus voice wise? Did I understand well? I am a huge Kraus fan but I was just a child when he died.
@@tenorcarloscol Yes definitely. Kraus's voice had more substance than Pavarotti's. But he was smart and never sang outside his fach. I'm sure he could have sung everything Pavarotti did, but he wisely chose not so. His Werther and Edgardo were top notch. In heavier roles, I'm sure he could not have kept his high standard.
@AfroPoli, what about the unpleasant tremolo in Vittorios voice? Cause you can clearly hear it in this recording and others. Maybe a heavy usage of roles he shouldn't be taking in time, or?
I heard Tosca with Grigolo on sunday in Berlin and four days later Tosca in Ljubljana with Tetelman. I would take Grigolo over any day of the week. The problem of Tetelman is that he has never fixed his middle part of the voice ( the most important one) Middle C-G. He has caprino( ugly goat like vibrato) on those notes and badly covers over passagio and then shouts the high notes because he does not thin out the middle. Words of my respected teaher who studied with Richard Miller and was disapointed like myself by what we heard. Pavaroti always said that the center of the voice is the most important. And it is, but if you do not have it fixed you will strugle. I think Afropoli was right in review. Very right. Tetelman has great material but the way he is singing I doubt he can go on a long way. It is sad but the truth. Grigolo has a lyric tenor. But he has a large voice with great lasser beam projection plus unlike Tetelman great acting skils, a lot of passion and charistma. He is quite an artist and certennly he brings emotions out of the audience. I just wanted to confirm the same experience as student and as opera lover and tenor to words of AfroPoli. He is right. I can also add the same impresions about two sopranos. Both I heard in concert, but I had the same feeling about their singing.
@@tarejso5632 Thanks for the review. And yes, Tetelman has a big problem with his middle range. He is belting, basically. It does not carry, he has to force it. Then, he sings his (better) upper range with the same force. It’s not pretty, and it’s not going to last.
@@AfroPoli Thank you for great seat again. I just realisedthat I experienced the same Opera with the same tenors and It was funny for me going back to you review and agreeing with it so much and I had to leave another comment confirming your findings.
Tetelmam non penso sia così male come l'hai voluto presentare, può capitare la nota o l'acuto preso male. La Radvanovsky è paurosa, l'ho sentita recentemente a Napoli in Macbeth (ha fatto un do sovracuto filato... giusto per intenderci). Grigolo... è inutile parlarne.
Grigolo’s “vibrato” is unbearable. It’s always at least a semitone wide, often slightly over a semitone wide, and at times a whole tone wide! I heard a live recording of Tetelman a couple of years ago. Already back then I noticed the heavy pushing above the passages and predicted that it will ruin his voice eventually, and so far I’m right; it’s getting thicker around the passaggio and the top it’s thinning out (the Bb4 heard in this video is very falsetto-ish). I can bet money that he has no more than 7 years left before he meets the same fate that Villazon did.
Tetelmann sings with two different voices. When it goes up, he gets loud and goes all Corelli. I saw him live twice in Berlin and he annoyed me. On the one hand he can't play, on the other he demonstrates his volume, otherwise he has little to offer other than a certain vanity.
I am pretty sure Grigolo always sings with microphone. Every time I’ve heard him, his voice responded drastically differently than his colleagues’ voices to the acoustics of the hall. He was a pop singer first, so it doesn’t surprise me!
Asked myself in the moment , because listened to Mr Tetelman singing cielo e mar : how he sounds in real life .....and thanks , Afro, for one line : dictatorship of cancel culture , horrible today.....and thanks for 4:50 the tenors You mention and I will say it, too , one name : Martin Muehle , real tenor ❤and thanks for 7:20 Your description...8:10 Magda Olivero , my favourite for Tosca , even when older ❤
The first time I saw a video of Radvanovski singing Tosca I had the very same impression, her voice sounds 10 years older than she is, which is a pity, so she'd better sing roles where an aged voice does the trick
I don't care at all about Grigolo's color---if it's loud enough, it's loud enough, as far as I'm concerned. These rôles weren't written for the insane modern overdarkening anyway. Dramatic tenors of the past were very, very bright compared to today: Tamagno, Escalaïs, Affre, Scaramberg, Zenatello, Granal, Braschi, Merli, etc., even Wagnerians like Franz, de Trévi, Winkelmann, etc. From what I can tell from his bad recordings, de Marchi (first Cavaradossi) wasn't particularly dark, either. What I do care about is that AWFUL WOBBLE. That's a lovely modern innovation that I have never heard justified. Of course, Grigolo sounds nothing like any of the above-named gentlemen anyway, which is why he has to wobble to get volume.
I heard Radvsnovsky in Tosca back in 2011 at the Metropolitan opera. Her Cavaradossi was Marcelo Alvarez. Back then Radvanovsky was really good, although my impression was that her voice was good sized, but not very large. What surprised me was the small voice of Alvarez. It sounded insufficient for Cavaradossi. Although Grigolo voice carries, I agree Cavaradossi is not for him. Also, there are intrusive mannerisms in his voice, not just here but in recordings of parts that are suitable.
Natürlich ist die Deutsche Oper das bessere Opernhaus. Die mikrofonierte Staatsoper (ach ne, der Nachhall kommt ja nur von der angehobenen Decke 🤣), ist doch schon lange nicht mehr ernst zu nehmen. Leider hat sie das bessere Orchester… Ich höre Hernandez nicht als Spinto. Das ist eine volle lyrische Stimme mit guter Technik. Unsicherheit in der akuten Lage ist nur Kopfsache bei ihr, die Technik hat sie. Tetelmann singt ehrlich gesagt amateurhaft, vollkommen ungeschult. Bei Grigolo geht mir dieses weinerliche Rumgewichse tierisch auf die Eier. Zudem keine reinen Vokale ab Passaggio. Für Hernandez und auch für einen Topton von Radvanovsky würde ich zahlen, für die beiden Herren nicht.
Ich teile die Kritik an Tetelmans forcierten Spitzentönen durchaus, aber ungeschult und amateurhaft klang sein Diminuendo in E lucevan le stelle nicht.
Been to Elbphilharmonie for opera at all? Kaufmann complained years ago he couldn't be heard there. I wonder what that is about. It looks like "Regietheater" from the outside, if you know what I mean, I wonder whether the inside is better, supposedly complicated acoustic optimizations from state of the art calculations and all...
Ich habe letztens Gheorghiu und Alvarez in der Staatsoper gehört. Das Orchester hat beide total übertönt, v. a. Gheorghiu. Deshalb kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass dort Mikrofone benutzt werden.
Porque Kurzak es la mujer ahora de Alagna...y en estos tiempos que vivimos la ópera se ha vuelto como la política, gobiernan , los que nunca escogió el pueblo. Y, los que cantan son los que ponen los teatros, a su gusto...y los horrorosos directores de escena, que no entienden nada de ópera. Y, la gente se pierde de ver y escuchar una gran artista como Saioa...así vamos.
@@laprimmadonna2341 Es que quisiera escuchar una soprano spinto o dramática para ese papel, pero la mayoría de las que cantan son líricas, hasta lírico ligeras 😱.
One might think that the recordings only make your voice sound better than in reality, but it can be vice versa as well, i.e. in reality the voice sounds better than on the recording (I've heard such comments about Pavarotti's voice, although I've never heard him personally).
Interessante ricerca. La digitalizzazione ha reso possibile tante cose, ma crea problemi: mettere 'dentro' una voce in un'ambiente digitale è la cosa più difficile. La compressione si rivela un passaggio indispensabile, ma, se operata con grazia, altera poco e fa capire di più un po' tutto. In un certo senso restituisce un po' la realtà. L'equalizzazione no. Occorrerebbe utilizzare microfoni neutri e preamplificatori cristallini: esistono. Purtroppo chi commercializza vuole prodotti gradevoli e ricchi di frequenze medie e quindi equalizza. Occorrerebbe forse creare un format internazionale di registrazioni che assicuri e certifichi una procedura di registrazione. Detto questo credo che Grigolo sia un ottimo tenore, ma certamente non adatto al ruolo. Aggiungo che la voce sembra precocemente invecchiata soprattutto nei centri e nel vibrato che comunica poca solidità. Considerando che oggi i cantanti cantano forse un terzo di quello che si faceva in passato la cosa fa riflettere. Tetelman ha una bella voce più scura perché scurita dall'impostazione tecnica. Ormai cantano tutti così... anche perché le orchestre suonano forte? Stimolato da questa proposta l'ho seguito altrove e anche quando praticamente Tetelman non si canta praticamente nulla (anche in Tosca il tenore fa ben poco) fa una fatica terribile. Succede spesso anche con altri artisti. Tosca (opera terribile per il soprano) andrebbe valutata anche dalla frase, meravigliosa, del prim'atto "...egli vede ch'io piango": chi sa lo sa. Le direzioni artistiche si accaniscono tutte, indistintamente tutte sulla "lama".
How old is Jonathan Tetelman? Isn't he still quite young? Shouldn't he let his voice and vocal capabilities mature until everything is well in place and smooth for a more dramatic repertoire? Renato Bruson, abeit a baritone, refused to sing Rigoletto before the age of forty (although agencies and theatres were pressuring him heftily). Shouldn't that rule be applied to Caravadossi?
I recently saw Tetelman in Zandonai‘s ,,Francesca da Rimini“ in the Deutsche Oper, and I totally agree with you. His voice is more of a lyrical than a spinto, too small for Zandonai’s rich orchestral language. In a worse acoustic (let‘s take the Staatsoper, for example) he would probably barely be heard
I heard him in that same production. Eventually, I got annoyed by his constant shouting. Interestingly, when you listen to the stream or the DVD release, he sounds quite different. There, his registers seem balanced, and the voice is, overall, much more present than in real life.
@@AfroPoli That's interesting, but as you say, sound recordings give a false impression of reality. I guess that in the long term Tetelman is ruining his voice by singing tenor roles that are too massive… Many singers have already gone through this development, and I see this thing happening at the moment with Jonas Kaufmann, who is now starting to sing Heldentenor roles like Tristan, although he has never been a Heldentenor in his life...
I saw Mr. Bernheim only once as Edgardo in Vienna, and he might have a decent voice and technique but he was one of the dullest Edgardos I ever heard. VERY FAR from star quality.
I enjoy your commentary, but it seems to me self-contradictory when you praise the volume and projection of Grigolo's voice but then you comment that "the color of his voice didn't suit the part of Cavardossi at all" and that he should instead be singing Donizetti and Mozart roles. I realize that "color" and volume are not the same thing, but you didn't explain WHY you feel the "color" of Grigolo's voice is unsuited to Cavaradossi even though you felt he had plenty of volume, and I strongly disagree with you on that point.
People who are more familiar to opera kinda understand that instantly. The part of Cavaradossi requires darker and more heroic voice (think Corelli, del Monaco, Martinelli, etc), or a lighter voice with almost perfect technique (think Gigli and Lauri-Volpi). The role does not suit Grigolo the same way it did not suit, say, Alfredo Kraus. Big voice, but the color is too “light” (or in the case of Grigolo, ugly color due to bad technique).
Another Tosca who did remarkably well at 60 (whom you might not have heard at that point in Europe) was Dorothy Kirsten. Not a huge voice, but very well projected with an easy, blazing high C even at that age. I saw Tetelman as Alfredo in San Francisco last Fall. I was surprised how small the voice sounded in the large house and how stiff his acting was. I had the impression of a tenor who has been trained to sing for microphones and cameras, not project either voice or acting into large houses.
Listening further to your commentary, aside from the fact that I simply disagree with some of your opinions, it really seems to me that you frequently contradict yourself. Have other people reacted to your commentary in this way?
I have the only one opportunity to hear Grigolo. I didn't like his piano and passage register, hut I was surprised. That day I realized that has much better technique and wery well produced voice. Recordings are liars.
Grigolo sounds old and tired in this. The vibrato is unsteady and the overall sound is NOT Italianate at all. He is only hired for his looks....likewise Tetelman. Both of them are belting....in other words, they are singing in a high, spread vocal technique. Tenors can get away with this when they are younger....but it eventually wears out.
Surprised to hear Grigolo projects so well - the upper register sounds too wobbly and lacking a clear core to have that sort of cut-through. I far prefer Tetelman's tone throughout the mid registrar. You can hear the push as he goes for the big notes, but, as you say, they often work nonetheless. His voice surely will be shot of he doesn't find a healthier way of getting there. So, it's disappointing to hear Grigolo was better live as Tetelman's sounds the more attractive voice even from these extracts.
Grigolo a révélé son insuffisance vocale à Vérone dans l’opéra Tosca. Des gestes parasites et inutiles dans son premier air. Un manque de legato évident dans son phrasé et un narcissisme assumé lors du salut devant le public, à la fin du spectacle. Un jeu d’acteur digne d’un soap opera 😮😮😮
Grigolo's vibrato does indeed sound very obtrusive in that live recording - much more so than in his recitals; has it loosened of late? And you are right: the colour is wrong for the role. Such a pity about Tetelman pushing - but he still sounds quite good in those clips. Hernandez sounds rather hysterical and uncontrolled - weird - but she has some lower register. Neither Kaufmann nor Calleja is worth crossing the road to hear; one has a totally hoarse, throaty emission, the other a caprino bleat and no volume.
That’s simply incorrect about Calleja. I recently heard him in Melbourne. His voice filled the concert hall with ease. He even did one encore piece- a song- walking around the aisles of the auditorium and filled it from every place he stopped- including when underneath my spot. He is an elegant gifted artist with excellent echnique. He’s v hard to fault. Not a woofing hooter like Kaufman
The width of Grigolo's vibrato, especially in the upper register, is really unpleasant. he's WAY over-parted. Radvanovsky loud is NOT nice. Nor is Tetelman - compared to Corelli? That is a real joke. Hernandez: of COURSE she was the best, she generally is - Caballé didn't support crap singing.
I don't understand why compare Grigolo and Tetelman. two completely different tenors. Grigolo is not at all the voice for Tosca. Small volume, vibrato, but good for L'elixir d'amour for example! Tetelman, still very young, explodes on stage! I have seen it several times and it electrifies the theater . Progress to be made but it is consistent with its album! I don't understand this gentleman... for Saioa I agree with him.
I heared Smith one week ago as Cavaradossi in Hamburg.He was amazing.His beautyfull clear voice projects very well and has a great ringing top. In my opinion he is not a Full spinto.(like i.e Martin Mühle who‘s voice is darker) For me he is the next upcomming superstar. I would also apreciate a Reality Check by Afro Poli
@@Carmesi66 thanks for sharing. I’ve seen one performance in Hamburg about six years ago. It’s not a massive house like scala or the Met. It is clear from video’s smiths top is solid and ringing, but it isn’t clear from videos if his middle is the same. I was hoping for the best from him, so I’m glad you shared. I wonder how his voice would fair in Berlin or the Met.
![[Reality Check] Grigolo vs. Tetelman](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
