Such a professional production. I also like that you are so well spoken and get right to the point. Please keep the videos coming, they are of great value to all of us. Thank you, Robert
Good video for us newbs. Remember, we were all newbs at a time. I'm semi new to mountain biking here in Asheville, NC. We've got the most amazing trails and I plan on riding them all! University of RU-vid strikes again!
One more thing to note is that there is no perfect setting. Multiple amounts of "clicks" may feel equally good on some sections but feel terrible on the other. With experience you'll get to differentiate and categorize trails with perfect settings for them. Good amount of compression on flowy berms or slow steep descends, to support your weight. Almost no compression and faster rebound for rocky gardens. Lots of compression and slower rebounds for drops.
I always get confused again when reading "no compression" - Do you mean "no compression damping" or "the least amount of compression by dialing a lot of compression damping"?
This is the method I found somewhere on RU-vid a couple years ago, and it took the fear out of suspension adjustment for me. My bike had 4 clicks (of 19) of rebound on the lyrik ultimate when I bought it - which was too lively for me. It felt like a jackhammer. I loved the Cadillac feeling of 10 clicks until I tried to pop the front wheel over a bump, and settled on 8 clicks... But as time went by, my riding style changed and I now like it poppy and playful, and run only 3 - 4 clicks of rebound (and less pressure in the fork)
Man, I have left my suspension settings where they were when I bought the bike. I have seen Fox's recent video with Jordie and he basically said the same thing that you did here but your video was way easier to understand and your silky smooth voice made me want to actually go mess with my suspension. Great work, as always.
I’ll have to go watch that one. I was enjoying those dialed videos back in mid-2020 when they were doing the video conference ones out of lock down. There was a great bracketing sheet they shared in one of those videos that you could download. Glad this video’s got you stoked to work in your suspension. 🤘
This sounds like a pain in the ass but I was out doing this the other day before watching this video and makes a huge difference in how fast you can get down the trail when the bike is set up right. So neat when you figure out how to tune your forks on the fly and all the questions go away.
just got back into MTB and its amazing how much you forget in just a few years! thank God I found this! you go slow and steady with great info, thank you.
You hit the nail on the head! Go until it feels right! I have found out over the years with new style forks everything is only a click or two away for difference terrain. Like at snowshoe and gnarly places I add to the stiffness so I don’t bottom as much. And sometimes soften it up for trail rides or leave at my base settings.
Again, great video. This will be a go to reference for my friends that are beginners. You explain set up better than I can. I tend to confuse my pals with too much info. I'll be sure to share this video with them. Thanks
Great video man...easy to understand, and thankfully these are tips that I have adopted over time. There's really no substitute for experimenting and seeing if the settings were better/worse/the same as before. Great concept! The right setup can be the difference between flying confidently down a trail or just hanging on for dear life.
Being 51 I am new to this again after a heart attack in October. Rode so much when I was a kid but a "little" has changed in past 30 years 😅. Thanks so much for this !
one thing I will say is that you shouldn’t just do one click at a time- do 2 or 3. The majority of people, and especially the people this video is targeted at, will not be able to tell the difference of one click. Everything they say they feel with one click will be placebo, doing multiple clicks makes a noticeable difference, and once you get an area of a few clicks you can then fine tune there if you think you need it.
Fairplay. It's tough to find a line in the sand though. There's forks with only 3-4 clicks of adjustment out there, and each click is significant. The "Same" assessment hopefully allows people to avoid the placebo for fear of not feeling a change. It's ok not to notice anything, and to be honest with ourselves about that.
As a general rule, Red for Rebound, Cyan for Compression. Never chase the perfect setting. Get it good enough. Find a sag that works well for you on most terrain. Then find a Rebound (extension speed) that feels firm but not so fast that you feel like a pogo stick. Now you'll want to find a point in Compression where your fork feels a little slow to react. From there dial off the Compression a few clicks until it feels smooth. Double check your Rebound works with this setting. It ain't 100% but this will get you where you want to be. You can speed up this process by riding 4 times prior to finding the feel. 1. High Rebound and Compression. 2. Low Rebound, high Compression, 3. Low Compression high Rebound 4. low Compression and low Rebound. This won't be comfortable but by cranking the adjustment knobs all the way and feeling how everything feels you'll be able to determine a rough idea of how the settings behave. My fork is an upgraded Fox 32 GRIP 150mm. I've found that at 40mm sag (just short of 30%) it needs a fairly high Rebound and a moderate Compression to feel good on my local trails. However, at my local bike park I'll roll the Rebound 3 clicks slower and my Compression 2 clicks faster to suit that terrain. Never be afraid to try different settings, you can always keep a log of what you tried on your phone so you can remember your favourite position or what you started at .
So, HIgh Speed settings vs Low Speed settings: which would be more involved with small bump chatter? I’d like to focus on the adjustment that is most in line with characteristic I’d like to dial-in.
Small bump chatter is a low speed compression adjustment. High speed will address larger impacts such as big drops. You do need to be a bit more careful with high speed compression, and I only dial it in to the very minimum amount needed for big hits.
That should mean out from closed if they are following conventional norms. I’d start there as a launching point and then start bracketing to see what feels best to you.
Nice video except I’m a MTB newbie and unfortunately not having the sensitivity, time or patience… So I just ordered a ShockWiz and hopefully that will make it quick and idiot proof… so much more to worry about than my road bike…. 😄
Be careful playing around with Ibis' DW link and that DVO Onyx / Topaz combo. You might end up becoming a convert 😉. I started (topaz) thinking that it was too plush with no negative volume reducers, but found that it ended up still being supportive enough when I left the negative chamber full open... I ended up undersagging it at like 28% with like 3-4 positive vol reducers and that was my sweet spot after 6-8 months of riding. I run a 45mm or 50mm stem, and a works components -1* angleset on mine FWIW, I think it matches my trails and riding style.
Man, you're not wrong! I've got this bike in for review, and it's blowing my expectations out of the water for what you can get into at this price point. It's honestly sparked a whole new conversation that just might become its own topic outside of just a general review of the bike. I've got the very base level Deore build, and I'm intentionally not changing a single thing (even grips) while I spend time riding it. This bike has value in spades.
@@SemiSendy Right on, i'll be tuning in for the video. I knew I liked the DVO/Ripmo, but one of the things that really made me say "geez this thing really IS capable" was when my downhill bike (Supreme 29) was down for a pivot service and I ended up riding the Ripmo down a blasted out, rutted out, end-of-summer Windmill run and it absolutely held its own, at speed, without any asterisks... other than maybe the -1* angleset / 223mm front rotor / tire inserts asterisk.
Do you think a good test for rebound is compressing the fork and watching if the front tire leaves the ground on the return? Seems like my ideal settings for LSR is when the tire just starts to lift off the ground when I compress the fork standing still.
I noticed my suspension usually feels really good toward the end of the ride. Is this just my imagination lol? Or is it my body maybe warming up? Or do shocks need like a “warm up” period where they feel better after a bit of use? I know the movement can heat them up a bit, I wonder if that’s part of it.
I'm slow to warm up, and I can often feel like I'm getting really beat up early in the day, which gives way to feeling great as I'm getting warmed up. 彭定康 mentioned, this can not only be due to our bodies warming up, but also in part a result of the speed we build up to. This is often something world cup level riders experience at a very magnified level due to the degree of difference in their initial runs on a track versus their race speed. Of course we're not even remotely WC riders, but there can still be a perceivable change based on our change in speed. Also, our suspension can feel better as the seals become better lubricated after the bike has sat for a bit. Cold weather can also play a significant role since our forks oil changes viscosity based on it's temperature. Moving the fluid through the damper repeatedly has an effect we sometimes refer to as viscous heating, where the friction of the fluid moving through the damper imparts heat which in turn drops the viscosity of the oil and allows it to move through the damper faster.
@@SemiSendy Thanks for the info! Yeah definitely with pedaling and climbing, my body only warms up after a certain amount of riding. Thanks for the info about friction too, that's actually why I was asking about it. I wonder if there are things we can do to "warm up" the suspension before riding, like maybe in the first sections of the ride, bounce up and down on the bike or do some bunnyhops a bit lol. We are also entering into warmer weather here in SoCal so I'll keep an eye on it too as the weather gets warmer.
@@mtbjoser some people rest their bikes upside down (on the bars and lowered seat) for a bit to let the oil rest on the seals, but I personally just ride and let it move around naturally. The upside down method can also be a good way to find out if your brakes need to be bled 😬😉
Is LSR/LSC for the first half of shock/fork travel and HSR/HSC for the second half of fork/shock travel?I hear it doesn’t have anything to do with speed but rather the length of travel upon impact.
Hey Birdlips, excellent question! Damper controls (compression and rebound) operate by adjusting the amount of oil flow through a valve. The more open the valve is, the faster the oil flows through that valve. Low speed and high speed controls are actually speed sensitive valves engineered to be engaged based on flow rate. Low speed valves engage under lower force only caused by low speed scenarios. Once you blow past that capacity in a higher velocity (high speed) scenario, you are pushing past the low speed valves capacity to handle the incoming oil flow and you then begin to engage the additional high speed valve. So, it is the speed/force of movement that determines which valves are being engaged, not specifically related to or defined by the length of travel. That said, if you have the proper spring rate set for your weight, riding style and terrain, then it would be difficult to engage the final portion of your travel without the damper engaging the high speed valve. Hope that helps!
Hey guys,i need ur help to find a good tire for a 26 inch bike,i have been searching but im still on a budget and i cant rlly afford every upgrade on my bike so im going just for tires now.
Just got a zeb ultimate, going from full soft to full hard on hsc + lsc does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, like not even a slight change under any circumstances, and Im not just someone who isnt good enough to feel a difference or inexperienced with suspension. Ive set up everything from koh style desert trucks to rally cars and mx bikes (plus other mtb suspension). I guess I have to take apart a brand new $1000 fork to see why there is NO dampening. 😡
That really is tough to deal with. At that point you're really looking at getting the suspension retuned/valved for much lighter damper settings that will work for you. That definitely complicates things having to spend time and money sending things off.
@Dawson Rockshox super deluxe ultimate and a 34 performance elite. You would think with all those adjustments the rebound could be fast enough but that sadly just isn't true. Even at the fastest round setting, I could go 4 clicks faster.
Great video 👌🏻 My fox 38 factory is set to recommend pressure and rebound settings. It’s got no hsc/lsc but it still feels a bit harsh. It’s ok for jumping but not for anything janky. Would you live with it like that or do you think it would benefit from less pressure or faster rebound maybe? Thanks
I just took a token out from my Fox 36 and it made it so much more plush. Depends of course on your weight etc. whether to add or remove a spacer but it’s another option besides changing pressure, since you don’t have hsc/lsc (neither does mine)
Hey Russell, there's a few things I would try to start experimenting with. The first place that I usually start is going back to spring rate. I dove into this a bit in the previous episode, but if you're currently closer to the 20% side of their recommended range of 15%-20% I'd add pressure and see how things are around 15%. Also, I'd find a good test section as covered in the video and start working with your LSC. Having the fork "softer" (less sag/pressure) with fully open compression can lead to a harsh feeling fork really quickly. It's counterintuitive, which is why many times we end up struggling to find a sweet spot. I've heard from a number of folks that they struggle with their 38's. I can only venture a guess here but being a fork built for burly DH performance it seems like it may be even more sensitive to "softer" setups that other options in their lineup.
@@SemiSendy thanks for getting back to me, really appreciate it 👍🏻 Ok I’ll give that a bash and see how it works out. I found my previous rockshox lyrics quite a bit easier to get dialled but they didn’t have the additional compression and rebound settings. I did wonder if my rebound was a tad slow which may have caused the fork to not track as well but after speeding it up slightly I found the ride behaviour to be not as planted and controlled (a bit jerky if you know what I mean) I also wondered if dropping just a couple of psi may have worked but I will take your advice and add a couple first. Thanks again
@@mtbjoser hi. Yes I thought of that too. I actually have both hsc and lsc. Atm I’m using none of both so wide open. I very rarely use full travel unless I’m at the bike park overshooting jumps and drops 🥴 I’m fairly heavy at 15st, using the exact recommended pressure and rebound settings from rockshox, I would say I’m a fairly aggressive rider too. Like I say it feels great on flow and jumps but anything janky and it’s not working at much as it should. I might actually try removing a token like yourself and then it might allow me to start adding some compression to compensate.
I had also considered whether the 160mm travel I’ve got is maybe not enough for this type of janky terrain I’m talking about and I’m just underbiked and actually it setup is almost perfect. I don’t feel like it rides bad in anyway other than it just feeling a bit harsh though rough stuff. I don’t know. I’ll have a play and come back and let you know what I’ve found. It may help someone else if I can achieve something positive. Thanks guys
Question! I have a 2022 fuel ex 5 with the stock shock. No matter what I do, the little ring for measuring sag, ALWAYS is at the very bottom when im done a trail. Does it just work it's way down there by vibration do you think? I don't THINK I'm bottoming out daily
I use a similar method. Start out with middle setting then go 1/4 way more/less to see which direction feels better then will go back to middle and head in the way that feels better a click or so at a time. Once if feels good I go one more click to make sure it gets worst and also back one click to make sure it feels worst. Example, so out of 10 clicks start out at 5 go to 2 or 3 then go 7 or 8 which ever direction feels better, say 3, I go back to 5 and will head towards 3 one click at at a time. Once I reach the best feel, say 3, go one more click to 2 to make sure 3 was better, then go back to 4 to make sure 3 is better. Get sag setting first, then rebound with compression open all the way, if high or slow start with slow first, then do same with compression.
I’ve had this happen. I don’t even feel comfortable anymore trying to jump, I feel like a pogo stick. I really don’t know what to do. Fox 36 front. Fox x back
@@1bluensx I'm still new to suspension but i've been trying to find a sweet spot for my janky trails with jumps. So far I've been sacrificing comfort on trails for confidence on jumps. I'm a bit on the stiffer side (from the middle) when it comes to compression and a bit on the slower side when it comes to rebound and its been working so far.
Never seen your channel before and seeing as you asked for feedback, I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth. Firstly thanks for taking the time to help me out, the video production was great! I liked your delivery, it was deliberately slow and methodical making it easy to listen and think about my own situation at the same time. Lastly, I've never tried the better, worse same method. I'll give it a go next time I'm riding on my own! Thanks again. Bests 👊🏻
I feel like I need to make a video of me trying to follow this video. 😂 Good stuff man. I’m such a moron when it comes to setting up suspension and these two videos seem to give me the confidence to try it again. Great job 👍
For me the high speed compression is the tough one. Not all trails around me that are short enough to do bracketing are long enough to have bigger hits to test out the high speed compression. Does the HSC have an effect even if there’s no big hits?
Hsc can give a very harsh ride quality when over damped, so it’s kinda ab striking a balance between big hit support and control, if it’s dialed in you’ll be fine tho
Alex is right. It’s about striking that balance. Personally, I’d hold off on dialing in HSC until you have the terrain that requires it to see how much added HSC you’ll need.
can you please help me with my Zeb Select plus 180mm suspension please,,, im 68kg and riding this kind od trail in your video.. appreciate if you can help me with this... 😢
How crucial is to have two different set ups for two different scenarios. What I mean is, I can have a trail set up where I'm working with a backpack and in my backpack I have water, snacks, multi tool, tube, pump and what ever else you may need for a trail ride (meaning have extra weight). On the other spectrum, I would go to a bike park and it's just me and the bike (less weight). How crucial is the set up differences?
You speak at just the right speed. And format the information into very digestible bits. I didnt need a youtube wormhole today. but i guess were spending today with semi-sendy.
Tire pressure certainly plays a roll in overall suspension/trail feel, but it is not part of your compression and rebound controls and rather it's own subject. I am considering a tire pressure episode in a long list of potential future videos, but it's a very tricky subject matter due to a huge range of variables from ride style, terrain and conditions. Thanks for watching!
@@SemiSendy Yeah, I probably need to get into a different mind set. I just recently got back into mountain biking after 25 years. Back than the only suspension was knees, elbows and tires. Tire pressure was pretty critical.
Your suspension videos are great. Very informative. One thing I'd appreciate you commenting on if you update the videos is the issue of tire pressure and how it impacts suspension set up. Riding tubeless = less tire pressure vs running tubes. So how does the reduced tire pressure affect suspension settings. And which should I dial in first. Tire pressure or suspension settings?
While the sum of the two certainly provides the outcome feel, they are both independent of each other. The commonality in their settings really more depends on terrain and style than they relate directly to each other. Kind of a tough thing to articulate, but to sum it up, work on them as individual components.
Took me a second to figure out what you meant. The one underneath that goes up into the connection with the steerer tube? That’s part of the OneUp EDC tool kit. It actually provides a spot for the tool to secure into when it’s slid down in so that it doesn’t rattle in that lower area.
The problem with focusing on one adjustment at a time as you say in 3:30 is that lowspeed rebound/compression are affected by the highspeed rebound/compression adjustment. I know you try to make a guide as simple as possible, but to adjust an advanced fork you sometimes need slightly more advanced knowledge to actually adjust it properly. Otherwise good walk-through of some good techniques to adjust suspension effectively.
