Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: 15 Years of Leica Digital M - Part I

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For our kickoff episode of 2021, Leica experts David Farkas and Josh Lehrer will be doing a retrospective look at the last 15 years since the first Leica Digital M was introduced. They'll cover every digital M model, starting with the M8 and going all the way to the latest M10-R, talking about unique features, improvements and offering thoughts on each. If you're looking to get information on what sets apart an M9-P from an M262 or just want to know if it's worth upgrading to a newer generation of camera, this is a must-watch episode. As always, questions are welcome, both ahead of time and live.
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Опубликовано:

22 янв 2021

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Комментарии : 83

@kajohnsontx 3 года назад

Great job David and Josh. You really upped your game with the camera stats shown next to the live video close-ups of the cameras. Nice! Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

@calvinchiu3862 3 года назад

Hello David and Josh, thank you for another super informative and entertaining episode! Just wanted to say that M8 is my first leica digital camera so listening to your introduction brings back a lot of nostalgia. I learned so much just by watching all your episodes and really appreciate all you guys are doing during the pandemic. Also I am super glad to know from one of the episode that David is still using the Leica X vario, which I think is a very underrated leica camera with superb image quality. The X vario brought a lot of good memories to me over the years of usage. Sorry for the rambling, anyway, thanks again for another great episode and I look forward and definitely will check out the next one! -Calvin

@ronaldsand3000 3 года назад

Fantastic reference on all generations of digital rangefinders Thank you so much!

@FarEastSurvival 3 года назад

I really enjoyed the show. It was very informative. I recently purchased the SL2S based on your and Steve Huff's reviews. I love shooting with it. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing.

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you're enjoying the SL2-S. Quite a camera!

@cheesun124 3 года назад

The reporter Kevlar looks awesome - I normally don’t like the special editions, but this is very appealing as a usable camera

@Anonymous-iw4hx 3 года назад

same here, itchy trigger finger, just wished it was a monochrom, but thats just me

@FrankWestPR 3 года назад

Very nice line up. I own an M8.2 and a M Typ 262 (in complement of a Q2). I'll just add that the B&W Jpegs from the M8/M8.2 are very nice, for that use no filter needed ;) . Can't wait to see part 2.

@mando27ny 3 года назад

M9 Baby !!! All the way...

@Ralf_Baron Год назад

You are doing a great job! Thank you!

@irenedp4947 2 года назад

Hello both, I enjoy very much your wonderful shows, and find them always interesting and instructive. I understand Josh's position about the M9 -it may be overrated-, but to me the out of camera files are more interesting in color than those of my Q1. Ultimately one can find a formula to match everything -I have even found a way to match my GFX 100 files-, but using an M camera for scouting is a pleasure, and the 9 is not inferior.

@256k_ 7 месяцев назад

i just bought a leica M9 at a really good price in end of 2023. crazy to think a digital camera from 2009 can still be relevant many many years later but leica is a special company and everythign they do is so well done and ages spectacularly well.... very excited to get my hands on it. going to be my film leica M without film! (who's got the time or energy to develop and scan film anymore am i right?)

@meyers323 11 месяцев назад

1:23:15 M-240 talk for future shopping me to reference :)

@bersuitsalazarj 3 года назад

I must say that using the SL2-S on this episode does make a difference. The contrast and sharpness looks solid. There's more of a "3D pop" as well. Cheers and thanks for the episodes!

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

Totally agree! The SL2 offers great video quality, but the SL2-S takes that to the next level. Two things that we didn't mention specifically that impress even more: 1) We upped the ISO to 1600 on the SL2-S to allow for more DOF and a little more shutter speed. At ISO 1600, the SL2-S looks cleaner than the SL2 at ISO 800 (at least in video) 2) The close up camera is now being shot in APS-C mode so we can get a bit more reach with out 90-280 (~350mm now). Again, even in crop mode, the image is super crisp and clean.

@bersuitsalazarj 3 года назад

@@RedDotForum Do you plan on doing a video on your live set up? Specially now that you use two SL2-S bodies? I am specially interested since I do them for work (healthcare).

@michaeledwardlenzi 3 года назад

Andy Summers was the guitarist in the Police. PS: You subsequently were corrected a bunch of times. Sorry for piling on! Haha.

@DeurenCoUk 3 года назад

Great video as usual, thank you The table moves quite a bit when you put your elbows on it, worries me that the whole thing will drop on the floor!

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

Haha. No, it's not going anywhere. We use a heavy-duty motorized sit/stand desk but it can wobble a bit due to it's two-legged design. We'll try to be less aggressive with our elbows next time. :)

@ronaldmoravec2692 Год назад

My son ordered a used M8 and I just could not let him be ahead of me, so I ordered one from Tamarkin also. I have the APO lenses and I feel it is still a good camera. A 35 V4 that I owned from 1985 is my usual lens. Pic are competitive from what I get with M10 & M10R up to 11x14..

@davidkieltyka9 3 года назад

I bought a used M8.2 back in early 2014. The rear screen initially had the brown stain…but after using the camera regularly for a few months the stain faded away and has never come back. This makes me suspect it has something to do with frequency of use. Of course my particular M8.2 could also be a weirdo. ☺️

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

...as well as the shutter issues they will disappear when using the cameras regularly. They are meant to be used not for the display.

@vincentolaw 3 года назад

My Leica M8 (not M8.2) has the coffee stain. Also the M8 sensor can be remapped by Leica but it's not cheap. People with the vertical line can use the software m8raw2dng though to get rid of the lines.

@pollensteyn 2 года назад

Thanks for all the information. I guess I’m still in the clear with my black MP240!

@RedDotForum 2 года назад

The Typ 240 is still such a great camera, with incredible image quality. And the M-P version... #chefskiss

@pollensteyn 2 года назад

@@RedDotForum and to put icing on the cake, I now own an M246 as well. I bought it together with a Super Elmar 21mm, a killer combo.

@smichaelpridgen 3 года назад

I wish that we could control/map the ISO on the custom control dial - I have an M10 and I was shocked that wasn't an option when playing with my custom settings the other day...

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

The custom control dial and button on the M10 are jokes as well as the tripod mount from the M Typ 240 onwards, useless.

@agcouper 10 месяцев назад

All I can afford when it comes to Leica is to watch videos about it, lol.

@chrisloomis1489 3 года назад

Reporter and Drummer are superb.

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

They look even better in the metal!

@vadimhsu5114 3 года назад

After watching this, I have absolutely no doubt that over time, the pure intellect behind everything Leica - and please accept my over-generalization - the foibles and idiosyncrasies, especially at the outset models, will simply evoke the best and most intelligent imagery instruments possible over time...leaving plastic ‘latest and greatest’ designed-obsolescence in the trash bin of history. Not to be confused with easy or comfortable, M’s by their very nature are not, and never will be. But much like Peter Karbe encourages a true learning of exposure and deep understanding of one’s gear, analogous to the methodical learning of a fountain pen to really, really perfect hand-writing - rote knowledge of and feel for one’s equipment is vitally important. And yeah, accepting the IR problems, the CCD replacements, the coffee stains, come with these lovely evolutions of a deeper excellence at a level I am intellectually and mechanically absolutely fine with!

@bagustikus 2 года назад

Hi there, such an informative video! One thing i wanna ask you guys. Have you ever met M240 with straight line vertical / horizontal line on the results? Because i found 2 M240s have the same issue. The first one with vertical straigt line, and the second one with horizontal. But in the second one, the issue is come and go. This is very frustrating me..

@RedDotForum 2 года назад

A solid color line can be the result of a hot pixel. We'd suggest reaching out to Leica Customer Care. By providing a DNG file, they can usually generate a custom pixel map to resolve the issue without having to send the camera in for service.

@bagustikus 2 года назад

@@RedDotForum thank you, i will try it then

@Junior-mw1zn 3 года назад

I love my M10p with the 50 summilux👌🏾

@chrisloomis1489 3 года назад

Is the M10P good with Summicron 90 F2 APO / ASPH ? I use the VC glass and ZEISS too. um along with L39 lenses ( CANON ).

@Junior-mw1zn 3 года назад

@@chrisloomis1489 I only have the 50 summilux.

@luizfelipepaimdaluzbrunolo1893 3 года назад

I have a first batch perfect M8

@heresiarh 3 года назад

Do talk about the colour science across all M digital cameras.

@tamilhoward9708 3 года назад

yes, please!

@Nigel-nar53 3 года назад

Deffo Pt2 👍

@tomwestbrook 3 года назад

I still have and use my M8, though I’m very angry I had to pay to replace the crap shutter Leica put in the thing after only 13,000 actuations (out of warranty, of course). Who was begging for 1/8000 sec shutter speed in an M in 2006?? I’m seriously reluctant to buy any more digital M’s for that reason. The shutter is the real elephant in the room ( not mentioned). Never had any issues with my M6 which still performs flawlessly like day one. And, I never used the IR filters. I really never did indoor shots, or not in color. I did a test with black fleece and you definitely see it there.

@ericjang3618 3 года назад

I use m8.2 but you should get the ir filter….. really not for the black but for the green color please give it a go. Night and day difference

@macbookdieter 3 года назад

There is an easier way to get the shutter count on an M9. Download M9info, then just drag and drop the latest image into the program.

@ron5935 3 года назад

My M8 has discrete shutter mode. Have latest firmware.

@calvinchann1996 2 года назад

Should Leica not have a record of the M9 bodies that they have changed the sensor on?

@carlgarrard9710 3 года назад

M8 is the first and still the best!

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

It is, M9 comes second, then the rest of the pack.

@maheshg212 3 года назад

Is the rangefinder mechanism in the Reporter stronger so it does not get misaligned with knocks?

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

It is the same as the standard M10-P, which is already fairly rugged.

@costascosta273 3 года назад

Hi guys. Sorry to sound pedantic but frame lines on M240 onwards are 2 metres like the m8.2 not 1 metre. 2 metres is much better IMO. Fps on m240 is 3fps not 5fps

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

Yes, we corrected the rangefinder frame line calibration information later on in this episode. Sorry for the confusion. And, good catch on the FPS as well. The later M10 improved on the M240's 3fps frame rate up to 5fps. We jumped the gun just a bit early here.

@costascosta273 3 года назад

@@RedDotForum Just saw the whole epsiode. Sorry I also jumped the gun it seems! Looking forward to part 2. Thanks guys.

@sunung1188 2 года назад

Hi guys thank you for this. Do you have an online store as well?

@RedDotForum 2 года назад

We do indeed: leicastoremiami.com

@Wutbeer0 3 года назад

I just know that diameter for M240 red dot is slightly bigger than another model Where I can find a red dot replacement for M240?

@jordan.7 2 года назад

The video starts @ 4:55

@ivankshz33 3 года назад

At my local store, M10 is SGD8,080 and M240P is SGD5,999 both is new. Which is a better deal?

@allena3430 3 года назад

M10! Got the M10 and never looked back. Battery life may not be as strong but i was able to shoot 400 pictures with just 1 battery before swapping with occasional live view and playback. Iso outperforms although if you wont shoot at night often m240p is good enough. But futureproofing at least for the next few years with m10 is the way to go. 2nd hand m10 are like SGD 6200 and m10P below SGD8000. Go with m10P if you do not mind 10/10 condition used m10P

@sml_photo 3 года назад

Two questions-- Will the M10M brass over time? And, is the M10M more waterproof or resistant than the M-P (240)? Thanks! Great stuff!

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

All Ms are waterproof, there‘s not much on them that can fail.

@Stealther 2 года назад

@@Funktrainer that is a false statement

@Funktrainer 2 года назад

@@Stealther No, I tried it. Just use common sense. Do you see any part on a M camera body (besides of that stupid microphone on the 240) where water could cause serious damage?

@Stealther 2 года назад

@@Funktrainer people will assume when you state that that Leica M’s are rated waterproof. Not just your own experience. How much is too much water what angle is sufficient to allow water to enter? Maybe it still works but contacts are corroding? You can always get away with it to some degree, just be willing to pay the bill if you pushed it too far.

@Funktrainer 2 года назад

@@Stealther The only contacts on a M that might corrode are the hot shoe contacts that’s why it is a bad idea to put on a hot shoe cover so that one might forget to clean them after the rain.

@gurugamer8632 3 года назад

Sony A7r iv or Leica M10r ?

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

1. silver chrome M8 original 2. silver chrome M9-P 3. silver chrome M Monochrome original

@tofulosophy 3 года назад

I'm new to the Leica world. What exactly gets recalibrated on the cameras? Is this something that needs to be done often?

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

The rangefinder on a Leica M is an optical/mechanical system. When properly calibrated, the rangefinder focusing patch in the viewfinder matches the actual focus being dialed in on the lens. On newer cameras, this isn't something that needs to be done very often or at all. Even most older cameras are also in proper calibration. Leica has been making M rangefinders since 1954, so they're pretty good at it. :)

@tofulosophy 3 года назад

@@RedDotForum Thanks for that info! I come from DSLRs and I am scarred by autofocus micro adjustments needed to ensure sharp focus. Such a painful process. I'm hoping something like that is not necessary for Leica. When an adjustment does have to be made, is it primarily done to the camera, the lens, or both?

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

As far as Leica’s AF camera systems (SL, S, CL), no micro AF adjustments are needed. This is other manufacturers’ way of turning out products with lower quality control and putting the onus on the users to optimize performance. Every single Leica AF lens is like every other (no good copy vs. as copy) and they all focus accurately on any Leica AF body.

@timothylua5885 3 года назад

are the m8s m8.2s still serviceable? until when?

@Funktrainer 3 года назад

All the Ms are serviceable unless you need certain parts like circuit boards, sensors, screens, etc....

@nevanonprofit 3 года назад

Mmmmmm Reporter!!!!

@RedDotForum 3 года назад

Yeah. This is a great looking camera!

@GregDeMichillie 3 года назад

Josh really needs to stop pushing so hard to move on. You’ve got fans who love the details!

@cheesun124 3 года назад

They are skipping lots of stuff on the 240 - Didn’t touch on features like the level lines that was removed on the M10.

@mawavoy 3 года назад

Josh, I agree; however, I know you want to cover things you can not get to without moving on.Also, I bet you have to arrange for all the camera inventory on the table. Some have to be borrowed from private owners. Thanks Josh!