Hear what the writer and cast thought about the 90s American Pilot Full American Pilot - • Red Dwarf US Pilot (1992) & 2nd Pilot - • Red Dwarf 2nd US PILOT... craig berko Remembers Red Dwarf USA (2010) • Red Dwarf USA - Craig ...
I didn't really appreciate how good Danny John Jules was as The Cat and what a difficult character that is to play until I saw someone else try to do it. That's really true of all the actors. Each wears their role like a glove.
Exactly. If you listen very carefully to what Doug says at the start of this docuemntary, he says that he and rob had to tailor the characters to fit the actors so the characters have certain characteristic traits that Craig, Chris, Danny, Robert, etc. all have.
ludocrat oh wow. Picking apart my poor typing eh. Nice. Well let’s dismiss American Jewish comedians and comedies then (or Jewish humour itself, heavily permeated into US comedy) or the fact the US invented modern standup and had the first comedy clubs, or Steven Wright, or Richard Pryor, or George Carlin, or Tom Hanks, or The Simpsons, or Seinfeld, or Frasier, or This is Spinal Tap, or Ghostbusters... Christ I could go on and on. Honestly, what have you been smoking? Or do you just love Only Fools and Horses n ‘Towers THAT much. 😂😂 😂.
ludocrat The Simpsons pretty much kicks the shit out of anything the UK has produced, even if it overstayed it’s welcome. And comedy films? Well there’s always Four Weddings or Bridget Jones 😂😂. The thing you’ve obviously failed to grasp if that the US has is size and wealth- so naturally you’ll get some stellar work and utter trash. Pointing at the shit (sex n city) or stuff you personally didn’t care for (Fresh Prince) is to deliberately dismiss anything truely awesome that came from that side of the pond. Hey, you can always wank yourself silly to Fawlty Towers I guess. Watching a man beat a car with a stick was always my granddad’s favourite bit.
As a young lad of just 18, straight out of School (year 12) travelling to England. I ended up in Guildford, working at a Wimpy. I saw Red Dwarf's pilot and like everybody I worked with, we went NUTS. OWWW OOH EEE says the cat. Smeghead says Lister. A year later came back to Australia and introduced it to all my friends. I introduced it to my wife in 2000. She's a devotee to her shiny Kochanski Core. I'm still a Complete Smegger. The American version was/is so smegging awful, I want it erased from my memory too. Love the cast, love the writers and crew. I listen to the audio books 1 to 2 times a year as I drive 100+ k. Every night for approx 4 hours. They are part of my psyche.
It wasnt exactly that. They didnt trust the American Audience If you go back to the early pitches for reddward they got turned down because There wasnt a window, Jow would they pull back from a sofa...
@TheSmithersy yeah its not that they dont trust the writers they dont trust ths viewers to understand the humor or something they treat Americans like they are stupid. (Atleast they did for a long time.) Smarter more socially aware streaming service showsbare doing well. More Importantly audiences are getting shows from other countries before they can make a Bastardization of them.
There's a very strange attitude here in the States where too many people think that no matter how good something is, we can do it better. And as far as American audiences not getting foreign shows/movies, unfortunately, that one seems to be true. I know a lot of folks who love US remakes like The Office or Ghosts or Being Human, but can't stand the originals. Or they won't watch a foreign film like Ju-On or Ringu, but we remake it and suddenly it's a hit. I grew up watching British television, so I get the humor, and sadly, most of the remakes we've done have just sucked.
American comedy is often about a gang of broadly similar people who fundamentally love each other despite verbal sparring. British comedy is about a gang of disparate people who pity each other or insult each other, even physically attack each other, are stuck together through conscription / employment and love's optional, occasional.
American producers are all about money. They don't know how much heart and sole goes into every red dwarf episode, from the cast, the crew and the producers. Thats why i will always love english comedy.
Ego. Money is what they claim to want but they make all the decisions which please their own egos. In this case, not listening to the show's creators and pushing their own script, despite how inferior it was and disliked by everyone around them. Their own ego sabotaged the show's success.
Jef The Mef That's the problem with the monetary system. Most art in any form will only be picked up if the majority of a countries population i.e idiots will buy into it.
Red Dwarf started of as British, and it should always be British. There's really is no need to ever try and change it to accommodate and American audience. The American audience clearly loves the show, with the awesome cast it already has. Long Live Red Dwarf!
Many of the cultural references don't make it. The US is very insular. There is a class barrier in the US, but it can be crossed very easily once you have money - not as ingrained as the English class system. Quark would be the US Red Dwarf.
I agree, some things should stay British for good and Red dwarf, James Bond and Dr who for example. Americans have got a different sense of humour to us brits I think
We never make a "Britsh " version of an american show, so why does America think they need an !American" version? Its english and people get the jokes....
@@MaximusJohal "We never make a British version of an American show" - Apart from Hustle, Spooks, Luther, Coupling, Desmonds, and believe it or not Rainbow (which was inspired by Sesame Street)... which all have obvious American influence. The title Spooks is even American. No one calls them that over here.
This is such an interesting story, particularly with how Craig put it, they were all upset but couldn't hold a grudge against each other for that reason. It's really similar to how the real Red Dwarf crew will mock and complain about each other but will always band together when the time comes. It's a shame Red Dwarf wasn't able to be adapted as an american show but hey they've gone on to do 7 seasons and a movie on UK television since. Craig Charles hinted last year that they're still not done as well!
It would never have worked because Red Dwarf was part of the uniquely British existential attitude towards science fiction such as The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, not the ‘peuw peuw’ mise en scene of 80s American sci fi.
Right idea, wrong reason....as with all British series/movies which they attempt to make over, whether sci-fi or not, it is the depth of character that the Americans fail over. The comedy of Red Dwarf is based on easy, simply seeming jokes, which in fact are hilarious because of the knowledge and familiarity we have with the people involved. And the characters are people because they've been developed that way.... warts and all....
It's not only science fiction but other types of comedy too. In USA: Someone who is not me got hit in the balls or fell down so I laugh. In UK: People and life in general are absurd and miserable so there's nothing else to do than laugh about it.
@@JuanPerez-cs1gxI don't remember who I heard say it, but I recall a British comedian relating the difference between US and UK mentalities. In the US, most Yanks tend to see themselves as a heroic character, whereas most Brits usually are more comfortable being the downtrodden loser. I don't know if that's true about my brethren across the pond, but it's true about most Yanks. Personally, I relate more with the British mentality, which is why I love so much British humor. Well, humour.
A long time since I watched it, but I recall only one original joke that made me laugh. After they're out of Stasis they find Kryten's head in a cupboard and ask him what he's been doing for 3 million years. He responds "Well I've been reading that 'stop' sign".
I'm really not sure how it happened, but I had really appreciated UK television series from an early age, especially Red Dwarf and Doctor Who. It always makes me a little sad when my friends have never even seen (or even heard of) all the absolute gems that have came out of the UK.
Errm, did you watch the video? He said as much. Given it was a Red Dwarf convention, did he really expect a different answer? Kind of a self selecting group there.
Wait a minute did someone say they tried to remake Fawlty Towers for the US market. I thought Steve Martin playing Inspector Clouseau was misjudged enough but no.
I've been a Red Dwarf fan since i was very young, about 11. i had no idea there was an American pilot until today. I'm 35. anyway, gonna check it out now.
Hollywood TV is totally counter to 'art for art's sake'. It's all: lets have faux-clever one-liners and canned laughter so it plays in Peoria and next year we can move to Malibu.
The two good things after S6 for me were the new kitchen in Starbug, and the new Kochanski. I adore Chloe Annette's portrayal just as much as Claire Grogan's (met Chloe once).
Amazing to think 14 writers were employed to work on the Red Dwarf pilot, which in running time for NBC would amount to 22 to 23 minutes of content. In the original version, only Rob and Doug wrote the episodes, for a run time of 29 minutes of content per episode. Says everything doesn't it?
@@pressureworks 14 writers brought in to create a 22 minute sitcom. Whereas in Britain, only Rob and Doug wrote the episodes for the first six seasons.
This week is Chris Barrie's birthday, Sunday March 28th... same day as my oldest daughters birthday! Chris is a delight and a treasure love all the boys from the Dwarf!
Why would they? British TV work is very different process. In the states, a sitcom runs to over 26 episodes, meaning 26 weeks of work on one sitcom. Yes they could earn a large salary, but it can become soul destroying when you are churning out a huge amount of episodes per season. British sitcom seasons tend to run to 6, 7 or 8 episodes at most.
@@johnking5174 It's like what happened with Paul Whitehouse, Johnny depp was a fan of his comedy which is how he ended up on the fast show, then Johnny introduced Paul to his director friends who cast him in a few movies etc, thing is Paul prefers the British system where he is allowed to write and act and be the showrunner for his own projects rather than being told what to do by suits, so he gave up. Same with Hugh Laurie who described House as torture towards the end.
Pure Craig, he and Hattie were the only ones not invited over. At that stage with so much involvement of the Brit crew, NBC should have just pumped money into upping the budget on the BBC series.
Orville struggled with tone initially, the profane family guy humour of the 1st series was gradually phased out as Seth McFarlane decided he wanted to tell more morality stories like the Stsr Trek: The Next Generation. Given those too shows share a lot of writers and producers that's why the Orville is more the spiritual successor to 90s era Star Trek than current era shows like Discovery. A slightly paler facsimile but still... OK.
How on earth could red dwarf cross over to the USA . It’s totally British & most of the gags are so nuanced. Also they have created a comedy universe over decades!
I honestly think they didn't make it American enough, look at Steptoe or The Office, the amount of changes they make basically create a different show.
Exactly what Doug said, they didn’t tailor the scripts to the actors so it failed. I’m glad it failed but hey, perhaps they could try again now in the 2020’s.
the brits aren't full of themselves, don't take themselves too seriously, and have a great time and a laugh. It shines through. The americans, it's all about money first, not art. What they don't get, great art makes money to follow. 14 writers can't have a vision of what it is they would like to make.
I just find it weird that the longer this went on, the more they kept trying to add members of the British cast to this American remake. So you just basically end up with the British show, but made in Hollywood. Esp if they'd accepted Doug and Rob's scripts. Can you imagine if it had taken off, and Red Dwarf was more well known as an American 90's sitcom, rather than the Brit show it started as?
9:47 So am I Craig, so am I. Not just because Red Dwarf UK would not have continued after Series V, but also because of what I commented on Part 1. If Red Dwarf USA had become a hit, Jane Leeves would never have done Frasier and I would never have become a Frasier fan (which would have been a pity because I love the Niles & Daphne relationship).
...The original creators of RED DWARF and their efforts to make this something special despite all the BS does show through even so. It's not what it could have been but it's got some damn funny bits. I'll take these two pilots as alternate universe occurrences which parallel the original.
John Cleese said about British comedy that he and the Python guys went to Michael Mills head of BBC comedy and did an awful pitch of what would be Monty Python. Michael told them go away and make 13 shows, and they did. That was it. Totally different world to American comedy shows.
That's how it used to be. But Brit TV hasn't been that free for decades. On Faulty Towers, Head Of Light Entertainment Bill Cotton didn't find anything funny in the scripts, but he trusted Cleese's abilities and let him make it. Likewise, Only Fools And Horses got lukewarm ratings for the first two series. These days it'd be axed after the first, but the BBC believed that shows sometimes needed a few series to grow audiences.
The BBC is socialism, it's funded by British license payers to provide entertainment to the people. Apart from PBS, American Networks are set up to sell to advertisers and to make the most capital as possible which leaves the huge flaw that in general most new shows will not make it past pilot or first series as they won't generate enough revenue quickly enough and even worse than that is the fact that the most popular shows are normally the ones aimed at the lowest common denominator so the average intelligence of the populace lowers so selling a Sci fi comedy in the states will always be an uphill battle. Or I could put it this way, when America were showing the live feed of Apollo missions in the 60's people rang up to complain that it was boring and to play re-runs of I love Lucy instead, something tells me if Britain had been first to the moon the live feed of the astronauts would never have been cut to make way for crude comedy
The americans should have done a series, Called it White Dwarf in the same universe but 3 million light years in the opposite direction with unique characters clashing in dinamically diferant bubt the same ways. make it their own.
Would have been worth it just to see Terry Farrell in her red catsuit. Kind of ironic, really. She played a cat with nine lives and would later play a character that was a host to a symbiote that had experienced many lives. I quite liked that different version of Cat, though. The casting of Lister was a huge misstep. Right there, it showed that the execs didn't really have an understanding of the show or its characters. Lister is a likeable, down to earth, slob. Someone every man aspires to be. You couldn't see the American one using his teeth to cut his own toenails. But this kind of BS has always been an issue in Hollywood when they're trying to adapt British comedy material. Terry Pratchett said in an interview years ago that preliminary work had begun on turning Mort into a movie. Except that they wanted to change everything, including the character of Death. The execs involved didn't think that audiences were ready to see Death as a humorous character ... then a few months later, Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey lands. Like he said, Hollywood execs are idiots.
How strange that there was the little problem of where Red Dwarf US pilot was taped = NBC wanted it in their Burbank Studios, Rob and Doug chose Universal Studios. Now in 2022, NBC and Universal are all one company!
The irony is that Craig Charles was cast as Lister so that The Cat wouldn't come off as a stereotype and Battle's "Cat" was recast as a part for Terry Farrell for the same reason!
mostly, but the off-the-wall line about giving the cat beer 🐈 🍺 🤯 almost made up for it. The Kryten's eyeballs in the coffee punch line was also terrific, even if the setup of him short-circuiting went on too long. the Terry Farrel Cat was okay, but I'm glad the UK version stayed. VI is very strong
@@ShamrockParticle I laughed at that line when Leeves' computer says "Actually that one felt good". The female casting in the American version is much more interesting, ironic given that the British one was much more male orientated (especially back when Norman Lovett was the computer(
Just watched [art 1 and this (part 2). Where's part 3? Can't find it anywhere, not even in your playlist, @Ace Rimmer ?! Surprised nobody else has asked too.
They want "likeable" people as leads, and in their minds, only tall good looking people can be "likeable", small ugly people are automatically annoying and pedantic - that's why Rimmer was average looking and smaller.
Craig Charles has a mischievous twinkle in his eyes when he smiles/smirks. That is what makes him the best Lister. Nothing against the American actor, but he just doesn’t have the spark.
*Dumps your tea into the harbor while looking you in the eye* Well to be honest you're basically right.The Brits have a way of doing a dry, non-pretentious style of humor that we Americans can only rarely get right. Which is why we never should have tried to Americanize Red Dwarf in the first place. Or Doctor Who, for that matter.
This shows the problem with Hollywood /American TV. They rehash and remake everything, but have no clue what made the original great. I am American and love British TV Red Dwarf is one if my favorites, the US pilot was crap, missed everything that made the original the classic.
"Whaddya mean some Brit tried to change the script!! It's brilliant as it is! I don't care if they originally wrote Red Dwarf they don't know what's funny!!"
That and the tradition of this always happening on US remakes (with the exception of The Office and Shameless). I think what happened with the failed US remake of Coupling was probably more of an influence (a more recent remake, of a romantic sitcom, with the British husband and wife creators of the show going to Hollywood and hitting the culture clash and American TV dumbing down).
British comedy and American comedy are worlds apart. You can't have an American Red Dwarf, just like an American Are You Being Served, Mr. Bean, One Foot in the Grave, Dad's Army, 'Allo 'Allo and several others just would not work as an American series.
The main reason fantastic British comedies dont work in America is that it all has to be rewritten so it is a)more viewer friendly and b)so a"moral"can be learnt at the end of every episode they produce,British comedy doesnt work like that,Red Dwarf,The Inbetweeners,Shameless,Fawlty Towers,Men Behaving Badly...these shows always ended with the characters basically learning nothing by sacrificing a moral for a big laugh, when the shows are rewritten they lose 90% of the humour that made them hits
It's from an episode in series 7, but i'm not wholly sure what its relevance was in that context though. Unless the person who edited this was alluding to some class difference between LHO and JFK.
Doug is talking about the class system in America. JFK was upper class member of American society who became President, who was gunned down by Lee Harvey Oswald a working class guy. I think that is why they used it.
The same thing happened with The Young Ones, where Nigel Planer was the only one who was brought over for the US pilot remake. He too saw how shit and missing the point the American creatives were, and was genuinely happy when the show wasn't picked up as he'd signed a 6 series deal. The comedy show Mash And Peas perfectly parodied US remakes of Brit shows with their idea of an US Only Fools And Horses: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zLA7Kx4srUs.html
I would love to Work on a RedDwarf Reboot. Umm not a Remake MORE like Battle Star Galactica Where it is the Same Mythos in a similar setting but Characters are completely re invented Like The concept of an American version but without the BAD tropes of American TV Keep the uniqueness of it being a distinctively British Comedy style just Updating it.
They changed the format from the UK version to the US version for no reason and they train wrecked it; what I would like to know is how popular is the UK version in the US and does it have a strong fan base like the UK??? I still hold out hope for a big budget movie version of the stoiry with new actors and cameos from the original cast, assuming the UK writers are fully involved.
I have never seen the second American pilot ever or any clips of it. surely if it were really leaked and not just talk youtube would be full of it? at this point I think the second one doesn't exist in the wild
As the great novelist and old Twilight Zone writer Charles Beaumont said 'Attaining success in Hollywood is like climbing a gigantic mountain of cow flop, in order to pluck one perfect rose from the summit. And you find when you’ve made that hideous climb … you’ve lost the sense of smell'. Only a tiny percentage of shows made in America end up half way endurably decent because the dumbest people have the power.
They were copying and pasting basically and they ran out of the magic toner that made the original great. If I had my way, I'd go on my own tangent with RD. Something relate-able. Nobody ever does a story about how geeks would react if they had their own ship and faced the dangers like their sci-fi shows would. Sure, people would say "Why call it Red Dwarf, if it's original?" but I would tell them to watch the original pilot.
American sitcom creation is totally different to British sitcoms. The whole sitcom world in the US seems to be so different to the British way. Loads of writers, so many men in suits watching what you are doing, interference from many people. Compare this to a typical sitcom in Britain with just maybe 1 or 2 writers and that is it.
The Pythons guys ran up against this. Their friend Marty Feldman got his own show, that was co-produced by the British ATV, and an American network. It was shot at studios in the UK. The Pythons were invited by Feldman to write for it. They turned up at the studios, and found there was a Writers Room, packed with Americans. The deal was you had to turn up every weekday and spend 8hrs coming up with gags. The Pythons gave up on this, as the British way was a couple of writers working on stuff at home, or in a pub, and there was no clock watching by the TV company. You just did it in your own time, and then handed it in. The American way for them was too creativity killing because it was like any normal office job, with no room for the mind to roam, just a production line, of what have you got, what have you got.
Well in the end we still god Red Dwarf USA. Just not called Red Dwarf. Futurama Fry : Lister Leela : Kachanski Bender : kriton Zoidberg : Rimmer Amy : Cat Professor : Holly
It also doesn't really exist anymore outside of the upper class families. It's not like in the middle ages where if you were born a peasant, then that's what you'd always be. Today, it's entirely possible for a working class person to become middle class. Today's concepts of class and social mobility are pretty analogous between the UK and the USA.
It seems like people have always stratified themselves. Even when a group of people form a gang, you have the leader, his lieutenants and the foot soldiers. The problem is that people tend to abuse their positions of authority and that creates resentment. This is what brings about revolution. Maybe it's less about having a classless society, and more about one where there's always a mutual respect. Because even if you're at the top of a social system, you still need those under you to carry out the orders, and they're less apt to do that when they feel constantly fucked over.
@@brianm2881 It does exist, very much so. Much more in England than in Scotland. You can still be rich in the UK like Alan Sugar and not be posh. Now the whole issue has been muddied by the fact that inner cities are more diverse, so it's conflated with that issue.
Going by what was planned, they would of had almost the entire English cast (had they been available) minus Craig.... bit weird... something of an issue between the writers and Craig in England at the time?
@@DanielRed2 Well RD disappeared for 3 years between Series 6 and 7 anyway, when we were used to one series a year. But yeah, Craig's C's regional accent was def the reason he wouldn't have been cast. At this point on American TV, they might also have had an issue with a Black lead as the hero, and with Kochanski being White (even in the 90's some Southern Broadcasters wouldn't run a mixed race relationship). Rimmer's RP accent, and Kryten and Cat sounding American would have kept them in, but I guess the hero had to sound American.
Well they wouldn't have had a problem with an Englishman as Lister, (the "bad" guy), since they like to hate on them, but everyone else would have to be very photogenic to be a lead, and of course the females attractive. They would have looked to an up and coming actor for that. I doubt it's the writers fault the US producers tried to poach the UK actors. I've no doubt Charles would have been in like Flynn had they offered.
@@Cheepchipsable I'm sure Craig Charles or the writers have made suggestions that Charles was too plain looking to be the lead, which is ridiculous as even now he has a lot of admirers. He's definitely a good looking guy, and his charm and personality add to that, but by American Sitcom standards they wanted someone like Craig Bierko. Bierko (who actually comes across as a really nice guy in interviews), was also up to play Joey in Friends, so I think that says everything.
The funniest part of this was when he said "let's see the white people, the black people and the yellow people" my jaw dropped for a second,( couldn't believe it) before I was crying with laughter 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭🤪
@@jim191185 Apart from the Beatles maybe, they would be completely confused by it. It does make a case for Lister being a Bostonian or New Yawker - somewhere with an odd American accent. (Not a Texan - too obvious.)
The irony and sad truth is that it is actually White actors that are being replaced by dark groidlings. I would love to see White actors complain about being radically rewritten without a mass media indignant bloodfart, but then that wouldn't be the Agenda now would it? I am sourly disappointed that CC had to go below the belt and pull the "pity me" wog-line, after all he isn't 100% black but a mischling. Kind of rich though how they always take the dark side, it has more victim perks because trying to elicit sympathy by being White doesn't really fly among the "hate Wht1ey" programmed commie bots.
I think it took until something like The Office for an American Network to finally learn how to adapt a UK comedy properly. Also, what happened to Red Dwarf is an awful lot like what is covered in the joint US-British comedy collaboration Episodes. In fact it almost sounded like the same script !
