Thanks for watching! Want to know what Jane Austen's time at boarding school was actually like? Then definitely watch this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JWTXbLgIK9c.html
For a while now I have been seeing that light circle reflected in your pupils, wondering whether it is especially for lighting self made video clips at home, that specifically is not blinding or otherwise irritating to your eyes, and now I know. Please do not hurt your eyes on behalf of your wonderful online work! I like learning from you. You tend to make me think more thoroughly about what I have always loved to read. Also I often see, usually romantically inclined, girls/women remark that they would have loved to have lived during this Regency period and married their own Mr Darcy or Captain Wentworth or other romantic love interest. I always said that I would only love that if there was indoor plumbing, running hot and cold water, antibiotics, our standards of hygiene, suffrage for all, and proper education. So you have probably already concluded that those latter conditions make the first wish completely impossible. 😁😉 Thank you so much for all your efforts and take care❣️
Definitely a governess. My mother could have taught me piano or how to be a fabulous cook (and actually by just watching her I managed to learn that) but nothing else.
Governess absolutely sounds like the best option. I mean, she is educated herself and you know she had a decent education. Your daughter is *home* not being bullied, mistreated and starved at s boarding school AND you can witness the education yourself! So if you decide it isn't good enough you can find a new governess. I mean when your daughter comes home for breaks or whatever from a boarding school you can find out if she's been taught cheap dancing and bad French, but at that point some damage has been done.
I’ve just had an image of someone’s daughter coming home from boarding school, eager to show her parents the dancing she has learned while away. Her parents excitedly agree to watch, only to see the daughter start to twerk and do the floss. 😂
The concept of it being negative to get too much education as a woman hasn't completely gone away. Ever since I graduated high school in the late '00s at the top of my class with amazing test scores, my father has told me that it'd be nearly impossible for me to find a man to love me if he thinks he may be smarter than me. He says similar things about my well-educated female friends. I mean, I didn't listen and now have a PhD in a male dominated field funded by scholarships and grants I earned, but the concept is still alive and well. For the record, many guys are put off by it, but letting my career path slip early on does a great job of weeding those men out. In the end, it is a win-win for me.
The right person will show up and love exactly the way you are. I've been best-friends with the same guy since I was 15, and he always told me I was the absolute smartest, cleverest person he knew. We're 32 now and engaged, after spending 17 years just being best-friends. During those years I didn't have a serious boyfriend and couldn't find a guy I admired enough to have a relationship with Life can throw you curve balls, but it all comes together at some point.
@jmcmontanheiro I am married now to a wonderful man. We were just friends for about 8 years before getting together since we lived on different continents, and it did sort of all come together in the end.
If I lived in the regency era I would have liked my mother to homeschool me. She was incredibly intelligent and well read. When I was in Junior High and High School she would read my textbooks just for fun. She was also the one who introduced me to great literature such as Jane Austen and Charlotte Bronte. My mother was also one of the kindest, most patient people I have ever known.
@@r.i.t.i.k.a Thank you for your sympathy. My mom passed away six years ago at the age of 95 so I feel blessed to have had her as long as I did. I am sure your mom would want you to be happy and live a full life if she was no longer around. I pray you have your wonderful mom for a long long time.
Your mother was a product of modern schools. What y’all never seem to understand, the past was a place utterly alien to modern Americans. Had your mother been born in 1795 she’d be as deeply ignorant as all the other women of the era. A modern education wasn’t an option, they didn’t even know most if what we learn in elementary school now.
Even today, anybody with any real intelligence is self taught. Schooling, or other formal education, can give you a grounding; but real learning comes from what you teach yourself.
@@Hfil66 It’s always been that way. With the three Rs, a curious person can learn anything he wants to know. On the other hand, without intelligence and discipline, no amount of assigned reading of classic literature can educate a person.
I think the Bennets would classify as unschoolers today. Each girl seems to be as educated as she can be on her own in the areas that interest her. Lizzy and Mary both play piano, Kitty and Lydia are more interested in fashion. Lizzy and Mary also seemed to be be well read, although in different areas. Jane seemed like she was just pretty and not encouraged to develop any skills.
A huge amount of children died in these boarding schools from hunger, sickness or punishment. I looked it up while reading Jane Eyre. It was that book that alerted people to make reforms. Two of the Bronte sisters died at their boarding school for church minister's children.
I can’t see an Earl sending his daughter off to school and the girl dying of a cold. While I agree deaths did happen, I think, as all things in life, that the rich definitely had an advantage and the schools they had the privilege of sending their daughters to would have done their best to ensure no such scandal befell them or that two of them weren’t sharing the same bed.
There were a lot of cheaper boarding schools that unwanted children were sent to ie Jane Eyre’s school, and others in Charles Dickens books. I would have thought more caring parents would find something a lot better.
Watching all these videos makes me understand so much more why my great-grandmother was absolutely insistent that I learn proper manners, languages (German and Latin) and how to make table settings for 12 people for a 7-course meal. She was super blue color and low class but she kept saying that as the only girl in my generation I was the chance for the family to marry up. My mother's mother took things from a slightly different angle and made sure that I knew how to use a sewing machine properly and she gave me lots of books on how to manage a household or farm. My grandmother taught me gardening and candle making. She encouraged my interest in botany, herbal remedies, geology and Hydraulic Engineering for fountains and Gardens. We kept mulberry trees, pecan trees and roses. With a seasonal vegetable garden in the yard. She taught me baking and cake decorating. My mother's mother was much more interested in making sure that I could take care of myself as long as I had some land to do it on. Her great focus in life was paying off my childhood home so that I would never be without property. I think the books on household management were more aspirational, in case I landed a rich husband she would not want me to be unprepared for that situation. Despite graduating from high school in 2006 we still had home economics. At which I could show off my prodigious skill for making French crepes. I'd had one summer of formal cooking classes at this point. But being from Texas I also knew horseback riding, barrel racing and animal husbandry. I've always lamented the fact that my mother's hatred of finishing school meant I never got the chance to go. I would have like to be away from my little brother for a few years. Learning with girls my own age, maybe I could have actually finished learning the harp and alto saxophone as I attempted to do in high school.
Another very important thing young ladies must learn is the order of precendence. In Pride and Prejudice, When Lydia and Wickham return to her home and are about to walk into the dining room with the family, Lydia says, "Ah! Jane, I take your place now, and you must go lower, because I am a married woman." Proper precedence was important to know for every social occasion, even when just home with your family. Eldest went first, married women had a higher status than single ones, and with company, the people with the highest social standing or class went first in entering rooms, and where they were seated at a table, as well as other circumstances and occasions. These rules could be very complicated and all hostesses needed to know the proper order under all circumstances so as to not offend anyone or commit a terrible social faux pas.
So no matter which daughter got married, she'll enter first, but what happens when the others do? Will it count on their husband's status? And if it is the same, would it be the girl who got married first? All of this seems exhausting. 😅
@@junemarie4763 I think married daughters go first, based on their husband's status. Mrs. Darcy will outrank Mrs. Wickham, because even though the Wickhams were married first, Darcy has the higher social status.
@YASMIN KHAN True, but her parents are largely to blame. Her mother indulged her ridiculously and her father just wanted to be left alone so he'd let her get away with anything as long as he didn't have to exert himself.
Jane Austen herself was an extremely accomplished needlewoman. There are some examples of her work at the Jane Austen house museum in Chawton, Hampshire.
@@billburr5881 I believe this is a hypothetical question. If I had the choice and the means with which to pay, I would choose a governess over a boarding school. Not that I would have actually had that choice back in the day, rather if my family were under the right circumstances what would I choose. The question isn't meant to be literal. She's simply asking what our preference would be.
@@a.violet5905 As you (and I ) say you would not have had the choice but then neither would you have had to pay the price of that choice. Your family (ie the male members of your family) would have had to pick up that cost. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
My mother didn't have the chance of a good school education but she was and still is passionate about learning. She cultivated a love for reading, specially the Bible, and about medicine and law. She learned to sew, embroider, paint, gardening, all by herself. I would have her be my teacher, hands down.
Actually, the quality of education for girls varied a lot. Some parents cared little about useful skills by concentrating on accomplishments like dancing, drawing, painting with watercolors, playing the piano or the harp. Consequently, some married women had so little knowledge in basic arithmetic, that they couldn't comprehend the household budget and were either overspending or being embezzled by a clever house-keeper or cook.
My great grandmother was the only child, coddled by the family and raised mainly by her mother who by my mom's account was a governess to the children of a Tsar. A highly intelligent family raised a highly intelligent daughter who was very gifted in languages and music and even worked as a headmistress for a while. However... she was so bad at housework that it was a huge factor in her divorce. She didn't know how to do literally anything when she got married.
My mother did homeschool me, in the 90s and 00s, just with a highschool diploma. She did an amazing job, and I went on to achieve a career and advanced degrees. Thanks mom, for knowing what was best for me ❤️ So in the regency era, I would have wanted my mom to homeschool me 🙂
Fear of your daughter being exposed to "bad dancing and cheap french"... Throw in the element of it being University and one realizes not much has changed in over 200 years. 😅
One of the things I noted you didn't touch on in a young woman's education was the practical aspects of running a large household. A middle-or-upper class Regency-Era heiress would have been expected to ride herd over a sizeable household and its staff. Once married, she would have been expected to administer the staff, to keep track of household expenses and finances, and in general keep on top of all the domestic functions of the home. Such would have formed a large part of her education.
I think i would like a governess. Feels like i would get a pretty good education and still be able to be home with my family. Hopefully they would pick a good one.
Interesting topic! Where did these "Masters" come from? Were they poor Gentlemen or middle class? Did they need an university education or some type of certificate?
I think, some of these masters, especially if they were teaching languages, history or mathematics, might have been graduates from Oxford or Cambridge, who were waiting for a real job opportunity. They worked as tutors for boys, preparing them for Eton or Harrow and sometimes teaching girls.
From what I recall, it was the second or third sons of Gentry, the same sort who would move into the clergy, or upper middle class of the same position. While you might see them occasionally from the middle class, that was rare because they were always concerned with manners and proper behavior and they presumed that the middle class would not understand the rules and manners of the Gentry.
I grew up with Enid Blytons ‘St. Claires’ books and only JUSt realised that St. Claires itself probably started out as one of those regency era boarding schools and just…stayed around and formalised. A lot of the regency era traditions seem to still have been around when Blyton was writing the books (like the focus on french, the way the girls lived in their dorms, younger girls taking on page duty for older girls, the school play etc.).
It wasn't just that school. It's a generic picture of pretty much every British boarding school in Blyton's time, not just those that had been around a long time. Even when I went to school in the 80s we were expected to learn French, dancing, art, and put on a play every year. The practice of older girls mentoring the younger actually comes from convents. A new postulant has an older nun to be her "angel." Her angel shows her where everything is and how to fit in. The practice bled over from convents to convent schools and to secular schools.
Enid Blyton may have written entertaining books, but she was a woman of shocking morals. I went to boarding school: it was tough! My mother, grandmother and great-grandma all went to boarding school. It was even tougher for them! Our school was half day in French, half in English. We had letterwriting, how to make sure tables were laid for different types of meals, table manners, social dancing, movement. And my daughter, who just finished day school, at her school learned French, Mandarin, as well as all the other academics, dance, deportment. However, when a girl needed more academic attention, one engaged a tutor. When I decided to do it myself, (as I am qualified) school gave me a great piece of advice: "Your job is to be her mother, her main support, emotional, social, etc. As a tutor, to raise her grades, you might/will have to be harsh, and she will need her mother's kindness." And that was good advice. But she's finished with school now and on her way to Uni, it's all history now!
Many of the boarding schools around when Blyton wrote her books had been founded in the latter half of the 19th century. Boarding schools, especially amongst the aristocracy, did not become remotely popular until the 1930s. There was an explosion in the number of these schools in the 1920s through the 1950s. The school Mallory Towers was based on a very famous British boarding school, Benenden. This school was actually only founded in the 1920s, but is still around today and is generally considered one of the best girls schools. Blyton herself attended a school called St Christophers, which was a day school (and does not exist in any recognisable form today.)
On a personal note I found this very interesting. My Grandmother despite been born in 1921 received a “Regency Education” . She grew up on a very very remote station in remote NSW Australia, she and her sister were educated at home by a governess until been sent to boarding school for their final 3/2 years of school. Not only to “fill in” any holes in their reading writing and arithmetic. But for the opportunity to practise socialising which was very important having spent their entire childhoods (aside from summer holidays) with only their siblings for companionship. There was also a huge emphasis on deportment, speech, how to manage a household with staff and how to be a “good hostess”, more so than academia.
I’d enjoy a video of all the accomplishment variations. We see a variety mentioned in Austen, including: paper filigree/quilling, screen painting, flower gardening/arranging, etc. I didn’t see much about learning to run a household in your video, which would have been a focus of a lot of women in higher society. The expectation was that they had to know all about food as well. Not in the preparation area but in a general overall knowledge of animals, their health benefits, and recipes. Mrs. Beeton’s Book of Household Management is fascinating to peek into that world. There are copious references to the Greeks and Romans, who men and women alike studied. For example, she gives a deep history of fish and emphasizes that she has proven through her history that it is in fact a civilized food. As a hostess, knowing what fish were in season and how your cook should prepare them was important.
That’s a great point! Household management was essential. So, I plan on covering the skills they needed to do that in a separate video. 😃 And yes, Mrs Beeton’s Book is fascinating. I think tracing back everything to Greece, Rome or ancient times was a trend among non fiction writers in the 1800s. So many books I read start every chapter with, “From the days of the Romans, people thought [this] about [this].” I think it was their way of laying the foundation of their claims about anything. 😄
@@EllieDashwood A lot of the references in Mrs. Beeton’s are written with the assumption that readers knew of famous Greek orators (Athenaeus) and Roman chefs (Apicius).
@Jonathan Parks Yes and No. The idea is that you can’t properly manage something like a kitchen unless you understand things like the importance of utensil cleanliness, the basics of quality food, the price and season for different things. how much time it takes to make enough soup for a ball, etc. A restaurant owner often doesn’t cook but oversees all parts of a restaurant to keep it in order. If your chef or kitchen weren’t good, servers out of season fish or didn’t put lemon on said fish, it was typically the hostesses fault for not hiring and managing staff better. Household management among those without servants was less about what herbs were best paired with fish and more about economical choices. Upper class women were trained and quizzed on their household knowledge. Middle and lower class women were more likely to learn it without being educated formally. Street smarts rather than book smarts.
One documentary I’ve seen suggested that one of the catalysts in the tragedy of Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire, is that when she married at 17 she wasn’t well enough prepared to take on her duties at Chatsworth. I’m forty and would find that excessively daunting, even if I’d been drilled in everything involved for over a decade.
Going to school and getting education is so commonplace in modern day, it's really interesting hearing the history of how it came to be! Makes me wonder what the world would be like if we'd continued on the path of more individual schooling, with masters/tutors looking after single or smaller groups of students, vs the single teacher trying to maintain the attention of a 30+ kid classroom.
We would certainly be a lot better off than we are now but thankfully The Tide is changing and public schools are hemorrhaging as more and more people see what they really are.
Poor people would have very limited if any access to those masters though. It just kind of evens out. Now most people get the same shitty amount of teacher's attention, but at least everyone gets some.
I wrote a term paper on Oscar Wildes Lady Windermere's Fan, focussing on the differences in education, and I am unsure whether they already believed this in the Regency Era, but in the Victorian Period it was actually believed that educating your daughters too much would make them infertile because all of the blood designed for her womb (the centre of women back then) would be going to the brain instead. Seems that the men needed a bit more regulated education on anatomy, as well!
An anecdote from the era! After Napoleonic Wars, many French soldiers stayed in Russia, whether they were deserters, got lost etc and eventually many of them became home tutors for not-so-wealthy nobles. An anecdote itself: when asked about French modal verbs, a tutor said "You don't have to learn them, since fashion (la mode ) in France changes so fast". Btw my ancestors were peasants(aka enslaved), so my only chance for education was to be cute enough to be kept as a personal maid for a Lady of the house or her daughter.
Also there was no mention of religious education throughout the video, while it was an integral part in Russian Empire (mainly because Church wanted to have a representative in every teaching establishment). Also I think the overall strictness of boarding schools was downplayed here. I know a bit about old English boarding schools for boys, and they were harsh (even for noble children). Borderline torture-harsh. I doubt girls had it that much better
I governess would be the best, provided she was not overly strict. Charlotte Bronte's early works were inspired by her experiences as a teacher at the boarding school in Belgium. Fascinating to read what it was like at the time.
I wrote a research paper on girls’ and women’s education for my master’s degree for the middle and upper class. My alma mater, founded in the Victorian era, was one of the first girls-only schools focusing on academics and university prep.
I think this system ran til the 1940s in Germany. My mom went to boarding school and was very lonely. She didn't want me to go. She was very self conscious about how poor her education was by modern standard. I guess they still do have finishing schools for women in Switzerland. Now more women the men get college degrees. We have come a long way. Our college education is our dowry.
Very true. Don't forget that a lot of girls were pulled out of school about age 11 or 12 to "help out at home" with the younger children. Eldest girls especially. My great grandmother was pulled out of school for just that reason, even though she had won several prizes at school and was the first girl of the first class. She often said longingly how much she would have liked to continue her education, and like your mother, was very self conscious of her lack of one. She was very proud that all three of her granddaughters gained university degrees.
Homeschooled. Mostly because that’s what I did in this modern era too. My mom was very well educated and we did a lot of learning from reading. It actually works pretty well; I think that’s why Jane Austen was a fan.
One of the issues with bringing in masters to the home was them becoming too "familiar" with the daughters, the help, etc. This is what happened with Catherine Howard, Henry's fifth wife. As for which type of education I would have preferred, I believe I would have preferred having a governess. Mothers would have the running of the house, dealing with pregnancy and infants, on top of attempting to educating one or more children. And boarding schools just seemed criminally sad.
I'd choose to be taught by my mom. She actually tried to homeschool me, but she wasn't aware that there were any other methods aside from just using textbooks ("school at home"). It just wasn't a good fit for either of us. If she had been aware of other methods (one of the many literature-based curricula would have been excellent) or even had feedback other than "oh I admire you for homeschooling your kids!" then maybe she'd have been successful. So... if we lived in the regency era, I'm assuming she'd be aware of the option of hiring masters, and would have done so.
I was actually homeschooled for several years so I think I would like to be homeschooled by my mother. Though I suspect I would soon become one of the "too masculine" learned women (currently getting a second Masters in physics)😅
Those sorts of boarding schools for young ladies were still around well into the 1900s. An elderly retired doctor I met told me that she had to ask her parents to hire tutors for math, biology and chemistry so that she would be able to go to medical school. Her mother's choice of boarding school for her was very deficient in those areas. Her handwriting was lovely, though.
im writing a story set in the regency era rn and your channel is a blessing!! youtube just recommended it to and after just watching this video, i can already say that i absolutely love it!! its not only helpful but its just so fun to learn about these aspects of the past, great job!!
It’s super interesting to think about the level of education in the period. When you were talking about too much education being considered masculine, it really reminded me of Anne Lister. She was very well educated, knew it, and essentially ran her family estates; she was quite viciously mocked for it. Obviously she was born slightly earlier than the Regency in the 1790s, but I imagine a lot of the attitudes socially and in education were very similar.
Firstly, my natural thirst for knowledge would make me "too educated" and "Masculine". I was also a Tomboy as a child (well I still am a bit like that as an adult). I think, based on my family status, I may have been homeschooled with "Masters" coming over to teach me other things. The dancing master most often because most of my family has two left feet haha. But I also think that my dad would have also tried to educate me as well as my mom which would have been strange in Regency Times. As a child my dad was always helping me with my homework and speaking freely of things related to Engineering and Construction. My dad was actually a genius when it came to those subjects. My mom would also help me with homework as well and taught me how to organize tasks so they weren't overwhelming.
If it were for my daughters it would be a governess. I would much prefer to have my family stay together. Your video does make me think a little bit about how Harriet in “Emma“ was educated at Mrs. Goddard‘s school. Her school seems reasonably well managed. Harriet seemed to have some accomplishments and what she was lacking was probably because she wasn’t the brightest of students. I actually think this would make a great movie or miniseries to explore, the life of Harriet after the story of “Emma“. After marrying Mr. Martin there would be so many good storylines to delve into. But that’s getting off topic.
I like to think about Mr. Martin being clever enough to buy a farm one day and Harriet being a happy farmer's wife with lots of happy children who have Auntie Emma already making wonderful matches for them.
I'd probably choose homeschooling with my mother. She would teach me all the household basics and we'd probably hire masters for the fields she lacked in. But governess sounds so very tempting!!
Hmm. As a homeschool mom, my children are reading SO many things I never have! They are reading all of Shakespeare, Plutarch's lives, pilgrims progress, and so so many classic authors! They are also independent in most of their subjects at 11 and 13 years old. I supervise their education, but I do not read all the things, myself. If you can read well, and are encouraged, you can get an amazing education.
My mom actually taught me how to read and write before I went to school. Knowing her, I would have a governess and later masters to refine my accomplishments.
I was homeschooled as a child and was primarily self-sufficient in the sense that I had a lesson plan and checklist each day which I followed on my own. I don’t feel that I’m lacking in my education at all and took the same standardized tests as everyone else. I was not the best at math and my mom hired a tutor for me when I got older and she couldn’t help me anymore. I feel that schools, or in this case a boarding school, can be overcrowded and a child might not get the learning opportunities they would with one-on-one or smaller groups. Depending on the situation I think that either being taught by a parent or governess at home is probably best, just depending on the child and the parent’s education level and ability to teach.
Fun fact - depending on where you live, parents have a great deal of freedom in determining what their child’s homeschool education looks like. Can’t find a curriculum you like? Make up your own! Your kid likes focusing on certain fields of study? Try child-led learning or unschooling! I was so proud when my daughter burst out with an unsolicited “Make haste!” after she’d sat through her eighteenth(ish) round of hearing (though not actively listening to) the BBC radio dramas of Austen’s work in the car. Unfortunately I haven’t gotten her on board with practicing certain accomplishments, but I’m certainly trying to improve her mind through extensive reading. (She’s eight. I have a bit more time.)
Once upon a time in the U.S., parents didn't send their kids to an actual school until they were nine. The parents may have given some basic education, but it seems the primary focus was on letting the kid be a kid, and also teaching other age-appropriate skills. So the girls would learn to sew and cook, the boys would whittle and help out on the farm or hunt. Maybe they'd be taught the basics of reading and math; they probably listened to books being read to them (the same 2 or 3 books over and over, not including the Bible). I'm basing most of what I just wrote on what I remember from the Little House on the Prairie series, which is a slightly fictionalized autobiography of Laura Ingalls Wilder. I've also picked up relevant information here and there.
@@spooniesarah I'm inspired by your comment to remark that plenty of Americans, not just the one percent, had access to much more than three or four, includung the Bible, books. Even the ones that would not have them.
@@entering_through_the_mist3582 oh yes, every American now owns at least a few books, even if they don't read for leisure. We have access to many many books via our library systems, including apps we can use to borrow ebooks. If we can't afford to buy new books, we can usually buy used books.
@@arielrodriguez968 I’ve encountered as many people who’ve been ill-served through the public school system, both educationally and socially. There’s no such thing as a one-size-fits-all (or even most) system. Some who were homeschooled might have done better in a standard classroom environment, but plenty who have suffered in public or private schools might have done better being homeschooled. I personally suffered mental and emotional abuse from students and teachers in public and private schools - was it better to be “eaten alive” in elementary and middle school than to be sheltered a bit longer? I’m not so sure.
@@arielrodriguez968 And as soon as “regulation” enters the picture, the kids who thrive on unique instruction are right back to soul-crushing drudge-work, negating a big chunk of the benefits of learning at home.
In my opinion, going to school is important for social skills, but I like the Idea of having tutors. I actually had some tutoring thru my school years in addition to going to school, and I learned so much from them.
I live in Cheltenham Gloucestershire, one of the Regency spa towns, and my two eldest daughters go to an all-girls school. Dancing and sewing are still on the curriculum along with music, art and French, although there is a lot mor attention given to sciences, history, math and English. The girls however are almost all bound for university and meaningful carers rather than marriage when they graduate. It’s still interesting to see how these subjects are valued as a broadening aspect of their education.
that was very educational. I think I would take the governess and then also read a lot. I mean, reading is how I learned a lot of things that I neither heard of at home or at school and my parents supported this, getting me more books about any topic that I ever mentioned liking etc. And thanks for pointing out parlour student, I always wondered why Emma would show interest in someone from a boarding school as my idea of what they are like came from Jane Eyre
I was well educated at all girls(once boarding school) and my brother all boys boarding school All womans college...and I loved it. Wish I could go back in those times.. the education was excellent. Liberal arts.....proper literature, art, music. So interesting how school were developed and run long ago. Poor girls....Thank you Ellie...you are so enjoyable. I love Jane Austen etc...I'm glad I found your channel...
Growing up I definitely would have been educated by a governess, but given my own education and ideals I would educate my children myself and hire masters to round out areas I’m less familiar with. Perhaps I would hire a governess and supplement her teachings with my own and she would detest me.
Seriously? You think you would be born into the 1%? Were you born into the 1% today? The other 99% in that time had less than $1 per day (in today's money) to live on. Most of their children would die in their early years (but of course you would be in the minority that survived). Sorry but no you were much more likely to live in abject poverty and misery than be a character in one of these novels.
Which I would prefer would depend... how well educated is the mother? What governesses are available? Boarding school would be last choice unless the home environment was not good for some reason
It's like you went into my head and found out exactly what I've been wondering. My mind's been on this topic a lot these past few days, so it was very exciting to see that you'd made a video discussing it. If I had a choice, I'd definitely choose a Governess.
I always kind of assumed that Mr. Bennett took more towards Jane and Elizabeth's education in a sense because these two are so..... well rounded? I mean it's mentioned that they enjoyed reading together and I assume as close as they were when one discovered a new subject or new information on a subject they immediately shared and expanded by themselves and I imagine that Mr. Bennett would be absolutely thrilled to see his two eldest daughters act *not* like their mother. I know he's neglectful in several ways but I don't think he would deny Jane and Elizabeth education when they wished. I think they would go to him first to ensure they got exactly what they wanted to when they appealed to Mrs. Bennet, he already knew who/what to send for so Mrs. Bennet couldn't screw it up. But then again he did allow Lydia to go to Brighton despite Elizabeth warning him and called Wickham his favorite son-in-law because he was charming sooooooo....
( Writing on my child's RU-vid account ) What has always mystified me is where Jane and Elizabeth learned proper behaviour from. They certainly didn't get their 'class' from their mother.
@@SunGaz3 definitely Mr. Bennet and their higher relations like the Gardner's. Because Lizzie and Jane were probably the most traveled of the Bennet sister's, I think they would have more opportunities to educate themselves on things like class and tact.
Reading is still the number one predictor of academic success so "only reading" really isn't something to be looked down upon--students who have the drive to just "only read" will usually fair better than those who have great teachers but don't spend much time reading at all. Reading is a very cognitively intense activity and is much better at developing self-learning skills than just having a "good teacher" regurgitate information. Education, as a whole worked on the process of a dissemination model up until probably the 1970s and 1980s...before then it was mostly about watch and repeat until you "master" a topic.
There is a fascinating 18th century play by German writer J. M. R. Lenz called The Tutor (Der Hofmeister) from 1778. It's a crazy satire about private education, telling of a tutor who is humiliated by his masters, then he impregnates their daughter and runs away with her, finally ending up much worse than before. It's not a realistic play but completely over the top, yet it still addresses some of the problems with education of the time.
To answer your question - our mother would have seen to the bulk of our education at home, and then “taken [us] to town every spring for the benefit of masters.” Honestly that’s what she would have liked to have done in real life, but she was concerned that the legality of homeschooling might suffer a reverse in our state. Instead, we changed schools frequently in pursuit of a tolerable education. I’ve been wondering - have you read “What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew?” Fascinating resource. It has failed me on one count, however: I would love clarificiation on what it meant to have musical “taste.” Harriet saw that Jane Fairfax had execution, but did not know that she had any taste. Does it pertain more to the pieces one has selected to learn, or more to how one chooses to play them? I’d love to know more.
My mum is one of te smartest woman I know, she tended to supplement my school curriculum in history and literature when I was a child, so definetly homeschooled by her!
Great video, Ellie! In the Renaissance minor nobility would often place their children with higher ranked families to be raised and educated with their children. Did that practice still exist in the Regency era?
I don't know about aristocratic families, but for the gentry there was definitely a lot of fostering of Poor Relations (eg Fanny Price and Jane Fairfax earned their keep by being companions to the household daughters, and got their education thrown in.)
@@MissCaraMint I don't think it was a full bed and board arrangement like with Fanny and Jane - Wickham's father the steward would have been living in his own house on the estate, probably. But it's also implied that Wickham spent a lot of time in Pemberley the great house and had his school fees paid as well, so not quite fosterage/earning your keep as companion, but not entirely independent, either.
In Northanger Abbey, Mrs Thorpe introduces herself to Mrs Allen and is allowed to do so on account of her being Mrs Allen’s “old school fellow”, does this mean that they attended a boarding school together?
Also Edward Ferrars was sent to another house to learn with other children under the same tutor. But I have not heard of girls doing that, unless you count Fanny.
Can we bring this back but as a homeschooling option? I would love to bring in masters for certain subjects that I lack in but homeschool the rest. Or group governesses for home skills or trades.
When I was a kid, I read too many stories about girls in boarding schools where even though they weren’t perfect that sounded better than living at my house. Education was not really a thing where I lived. I wanted to go to boarding school and get away so bad. I also figured that. Maybe I would learn some social graces that I was unable to learn in my home. Looking back the only boarding schools I ever saw discussed in real life were the kind you sent problem children too, and I wasn’t one of those what I’m grateful for. I think I had an idea of a girls version of you know a prep school. I wanted to be prepped for college and nobody ever prepped me. I lived in an area where it wasn’t a big deal for people who didn’t go and the people who did go, just took it for granted and yeah, that was my feeling. So I probably would’ve died in the flu, epidemic or something. I think being raised by an absent minded Professor father who had three boys and just let me join in his lessons would’ve probably been an excellent way to be educated.
That question-and-answer format is called Recitation and is still used by a handful of educators today. It is an excellent way to memorize a huge body of knowledge.
Although most schools called it were for the poor (and would probably equivalent to modern nursery, pre or primary/ elementary schools) I think the type of school you're describing as 'boarding schools' would actually be called Dame schools, seeing as at least one ds (in the North East of England) in the late 17th century only charged 4 shillings (old* British money) a year per pupil no wonder parents/ guardians would pay extra to make a girl a parlour boarder. *= Pre decimalisation in the early 1970's, roughly about £17.45. Thus before paying any teachers/ masters the principal of a Dame school would possibly have made around £10 (£875) a year
@@billburr5881 whilst Universal free education for children between the ages of 5 and 10 didn't come into law until 1850 in the UK (or at least England, possibly Wales as well), in certain parts of England at least Dame schools for the poorest in society had been running for around 100 years. Indeed the last remaining dame schools didn't close until the mid 1960's or so, however many of those that had existed pre 1850 were generally in very rural villages/small towns their records have been lost due to accidentally (or possibly purposeful) destruction
Anne Elliot knows Italian, French, music, drawing, household management. She was an educated woman. Jane Fairfax was pitied because she had to take employment as a governess.
I made this choice myself and went off to boarding school - and that was only 56 years ago. Staying at home under Mother's regime was not an option (although public schools would have limited the control, I suppose). But in my day, each student had her own bed. 😊
It definitely could have! It calls their school one of the “first private seminaries” in London, which are exactly the type to leave a girl with far too many airs. 😂
Perhaps they were - most of the bullies I’ve encountered learned how to bully by being bullied themselves. (In fact, I’ve come to realize that some of my behavior toward my college friends stemmed from how I was treated in middle and high school.)
There were also convent schools over on the continent, which were always run by Catholic nuns. As a Catholic, I would choose none of your choices and go to a convent school in France. There, I would learn to sing, to read in Latin, French and English, to write neatly, mathematics, and Catholic doctrine. I would have been a well educated young lady and found a suitable Catholic spouse while on the continent.
I find it so charming that everyone is still so obsessed with British History. Being born and bred here we take it all for granted and forget that other countries are not as fortunate as we are to have such a long rich history.
ahem... all countries have long rich history. also this deals with events about 2 centuries ago. hardly long ago. people are here thinkiing about and learning about a snippet of english history to add nuance to their understanding of a handful of novels. is it charming. probably. can you then infer that this is 'obsession'... no. does *any* of it suggest that other countries do not have 'long rich' history... certainly not. go have a look at the amount of attention online to, say, viking life or roman life or renaissance italy, the ancient middle east, late medieval germany, native american history, ancient china or medieval japan... or a bit closer to home, the vast slab of internet devoted to life in medieval and prehistoric ireland. england's history and society has a place in all that for sure, but it is just a place, and please do remember that life and events set in the better off social ranks of regency england are just that, and can often be markedly different from life in other times and parts of england, not to mention the other parts of britain.
I think as someone on the spectrum my mother would be the best option. Mostly, because I think that other people wouldn't understand me and be able to teach me in a way that is conducive to how I interpret the world and its many subjects. Also, she's a very wise woman and can be quite strict when she needs to be. She has taught me how to read with dyslexia and how to calculate with dyscalculia and has never forced me to be someone I'm not.
if I have to compare my life and reflect it: my sisters would have been educated by our mom + had some masters (and my mom would have been an edu zealot) and, after inheriting some extra income, I would have probably gotten a governess + some masters. My mom would still be disappointed at how bad I am at math.
Thank you for this informative episode, the ladies of the Regency period seem to be much better educated than many of the students I tutor. In one sense I don't think much has changed when it comes to men not preferring intelligent and educated women. After all, the Barbie doll isn't known for her brain and how many tv shows celebrate intelligent women who have happy romantic relationships? Thanks again.
Where the hell have you been? Barbie is a surgeon, vet, marine biologist, professor, etc. On what planet is she not smart? Is it because she also is into fashion that you assume people who are into feminine things are stupid and that things such as color theory and sewing is vapid? Would you consider someone who animates to be equally vapid, since they use similar skill sets? I think you might be internally misogynistic.
@Princess Nylani fun fact, they have been designing more body types. There’s a whole line of them, and they actually are arguably better molds and have more articulation. Barbie even has a para Olympics skier, which is hella cool.
This too was so interesting! I love how well you manage to connect the topics of different videos, giving us a chance to dig deeper bits and pieces simply by looking another video :D
I would say I want to live in the regency era but if I’m correct slavery was abolished in England (and I believe the commonwealth too) in 1807 and the regency era was from 1811 to 1820. That wouldn’t leave a lot of time for tolerance to grow, so I’m just gonna marvel at the historical facts without wishing I’d lived in the regency era😅
A short story about women being "over-educated": While at uni, there was a very pretty and very intelligent fellow student. In fact, she was so smart that I felt rather intimidated by her. This definitely had something to do with there nothing ever happening anything between us. That might be seen as my shortcoming, but apparently it is quite common that, for highly educated women, it is harder to find a partner in life.
If most men are lack of education and without any ambition to expand their knowledge, yes of course. The problem are not clever women , are the insecure men.
Defo governesses, as in more than 1, preferably 4 and all from a different country so I could learn their native languages. For instance French, Italian, German, and Spanish, besides being able to improve on English, of course. Reading writing arithmetic and history would be mandatory, as well as geography. Needlepoint and the like would be a necessity. Some understanding of bookkeeping and how the political and judicial system works. These would all be necessary for a lady of the house to manage the household properly, even in the absence of her husband. To me it would also be essential to learn how to ride well and drive a cart or coach. Physical hygiene would be a point as well because in those days ... ah well .... So a pretty well laid out and thought through amount of topics.
Governess any day, but they'd have had a problem keeping me from learning too much. I got in trouble in third grade for reading the whole history textbook in the first couple of weeks of class.
Jane and Elizabeth spent more time with Mrs Gardiner than the younger sisters. Even coming from trade, just like her sister-in-law Mrs Bennet, her behavior is much more ladylike and the girls learned from her.
A few decades later, the subjects were Mystery (ancient and modern), Seaography, Drawling, Stretching, Fainting in Coils, Classics (Laughing and Grief). Citation: Dodgson, Charles (1865).
Hmmmm... a bit of a debate- my mom is pretty brilliant, so I would bet she’d have done a pretty decent job of teaching me what I needed to know. That being said, she has also stated, repeatedly, that if she’d had to homeschool my sister and me, murder WOULD have been done. So, all things considered, I think I would have had a governess, preferably one who had blue stocking tendencies but understood how to cater to societal norms. Because you can have that masculine education if you know how and when to keep your mouth shut about it. And given both my parents’ dedication to seeing me as educated as possible, I can’t imagine it any other way, even in the Regency era.
A parlor boarder is someone who has a room with an attached parlor. Not a single room with a private parlor, but most often a shared parlor and 2 or 3 beds, so anywhere from 2-6 girls sharing a private parlor while others were in more like a barracks, a bit like the girls beds in the book Madeline, where all common rooms were shared by everyone. (The only reason I know this is because parlor boarding was still a thing in the 1890s, when my great grandmother was a tweenie at a boarding school.)
With our family, home schooling would have been best. We had quite a few musicians, inventors, and history buffs among our relatives. Dancing masters could have been imported. Plus, mom was very intellegent.
I'm going to write a diploma thesis for my high school to pride and prejudice Are you having any tips on which points people would lie most interest to? ❤️❤️ Love 💕guys
I wouldn't have minded studying botany and the constellations. I'm rubbish at recognising trees and wildflowers. I can tell Orion, the Plough, the North Star and that's it.
I'd have had a governess, definitely. I love my mom, but she would have never kept us on any type of schedule. You didn't mention boys' education. I was under the impression that, until they were old enough to attend Eton or Harrow, boys always either shared their sisters' governesses or had full-time tutors. As for my own kids, I would have had a governess for them as well, but she would have taught them very carefully. I'm frequently appalled at what they didn't learn in the public and charter school systems. I have a son who learned "all about William the Conquerer," except for the year, the name of the decisive battle, the name of the defeated king, and why William came to England in the first place.
Yes, they would share their sister's governess or have a tutor until they went to Eton or Harrow! I am planning on doing an entirely separate video on boy's education. Also, public school has such limits. 😭😂