You could feel the disdain for this game even during the rules explanation. I didn't even need to hear the final thoughts portion to know he didn't like it.
Normally when they dislike a game this much, I'm more likely to go and watch it completely through the end to see what had disturbed them this much, how's the game faulty and what's their reasoning. I haven't played this game, but I think the review was quite satisfying to demonstrate his final note.
his very barely veiled disdain for the game that came through during the overview had me laughing out loud. sometimes even your "dream job" is just work. haha
I respect this review a ton, its so rare to get honest negative opinions on board games where things just didn't work out, so often bg reviewers feel so bad about saying anything negative or pointing out flaws in a game system. I appreciate you Zee!
Problem is that he wasn't free of pre-judgement for this game and it really showed. If you don't like a certain type of game, you might not be the right person to review it. Other than that, it was HIS honest review.
@@marmank To be fair, he does tend to enjoy these games, though mostly more streamlined options. Based on a post above from The Dice Tower, even Roy disliked it, and he loves some clunky games (See: Heroes of Land, Sea, and Air!).
In fact the keyword used by the enemies are detailed on their cards (which you don't shown), That mean that you have to remember about 3 or 4 capacities that you use regularly.
One thing with Zee, is he values streamlining more than most people who enjoy these types of games (from what I've seen at least). This game is many things, but it is NOT streamlined, lol. You'd think a big KS company that worked with monolith, would have learned from Monolith's fumble with Batman GCC and provided detailed player aids. It's unfortunate as I love the core concept; the theme, unique hero decks, "Raid" style one-off scenarios that you ca mix-and-match, but it seems to just miss the mark. They should have followed in the footsteps of Hellboy from last year, and focused on streamlining the game play. I've not played HB, but it seems to really hit the mark!
Monolith still has huge support and makes lots of money. It seems there are players that fix the game. Good, bad, or ugly? I don’t know. But it seems to be the truth.
Patrick Herlihy oh sure, there appears to be a large number of buyers who just want these games for the minis. They want to own them, paint them and display them. They don’t really care if there’s a working game in the box. Its just about having it on their shelves. 😁 It seems to be a bottomless market that seems to soak up every big box mini fest that comes out. Now personally I don’t think think companies that churn out rubbish games should be given money, but it’s not my money and people can do what they like with their own. However I don’t think such people can get arsed when someone who is a games reviewer says it’s a poor game. He’s not reviewing it as a collection of figures to paint, he’s reviewing it as a game to play. 😀
@@patrickherlihy2140 To be fair, I'm one of those fans. Monolith has made some of my favorite games; Conan, Mythic Battles Pantheon, Claustrophobia 1643, and to an extent, even Batman. That said, I'll be the first to admit they can sometimes take it to far (Batman GCC), and they _really_ need to have a third party review and critique the rulebook.
Zee also liked World of Smog: Rise of Moloch. His only issue with the game is that there isn't a huge replayability. WoS a Reichbusters are kind of the same vein, the only difference is Wos is a lot quicker and is more fun. Reichbusters, just seems slow for the turn of one character.
So I watched this review when it came out, and have now watched it again after having a weekend with Reichbusters. Things I agree with: The rulebook has issues: It needed better editing, better organization, and an index. Documentation of the mission cards is lacking some detail and caused me the biggest headache. The first error I encountered was on the second page where it directs you to page 18 for a components list ... which actually is on page 21. On another page, the example card shown is the French version of the card in the English rulebook. And without an index, it took me some time to figure out how the Downed state worked. I expected all that info to be in the section on enemy attacks, but the definition of Downed itself was in the Recovery action section. Ease of play is missing: There needed to be one solid "start playing" mission with a walkthrough. Often times, RU-vid videos cover that gap, but Mythic had no such tutorial materials available at the time of launch. Things I somewhat disagree with: Game is slow and there's no replayability: It can feel slow if not everybody is actively participating on strategy, but once patrols start coming at you, the excitement picks up quite a bit. If you are not sharing information with your squad and figuring out how you can set them up for success after your turn, they will have no reason to engage between turns. That being said, this game plays out like a slow motion sequence in that you take actions and the enemy has time to react before the next person can begin. Again, in the absence of discussion between hero turns, this leaves potentially 3 other players either watching you make the situation worse by spawning more troops or clear out a room and leave them with nobody to kill. Info on hidden passages is missing: No, you just need to see the paragraph in the campaign missions book that tells you which cards to pull from the decks before you start. A concise "Before you start" section that has that in a bulleted list would make it easier to find that info (a reminder to review "before you start" before each mission wouldn't hurt, either). Keywords are overwhelming: When you start the game, you have maybe 4 or 5 keywords you're responsible for (one for character, max two for each weapon). If you're Quentin, it's only two (Stealthy and Precise). Keywords for your enemies are printed right on their cards for reference. Some character cards introduce other keywords (like Lethal). It does not take long to remember these, but it would have been nice of the designers to use some of that character card real estate for immediately relevant keywords rather than flavor text. That being said, a reference sheet for each player would be welcome. Things I didn't appreciate in this particular review: "The symbols are plentiful and, uh, are going to stay largely unexplained because again, time." You showed all of the symbols on screen. It would take two minutes to give an overview of them. And there's no time limit on videos. Instead of blaming time, just blame effort. As in you didn't want to expel the effort to explain them because you never want to see the game again. "If that's not right, uh, then, uh, y'know, check the rulebook." At this point, you should have just stopped the video and said, "I can't do this." I'm not saying you should have liked the game. Different strokes for different folks and all that. It has its warts, and I'm not inclined to back further Mythic Games productions until they can commit some effort to creating easily referenced references and, for the love of all that's holy, creating packaging that can actually hold the game after you've played it. But, having played Reichbusters with my 11yo son, I can say that we had a good time with it and are looking forward to playing a lot more while we're sheltered in place.
I agree. Although he did skew the accepted definition of "replay ability" to suit his own needs for this review. Replay ability as we all know is a games' ability to offer up an equally good or different challenge when played multiple times. He stressed his own, very subjective disdain for the game play and used it to define that as a characteristic of that metric. Does Pandemic Legacy have the same replay value of Dixit? Nope. Does the fact i dislike Dixit mean it has no replay ability because the "play" of the game, in my opinion, wasnt good? I couldn't care less either way, truly, but why have Zee review this game? Did he lose a bet?
@@stormy7722 A person's reason for enjoying anything is subjective, but Zee gave several good reasons why this is just a bad game. I also don't agree Zee skewed the definition of replayability; if it is a measurement of having equally good plays each time, then if the first one sucks why would you ever play it again, despite all the content?
People become instant fans of a game and will defend it no matter what. When Shut Up and Sit Down posted a negative review of Batman Gotham City Chronicles, the were immediately attacked by that fan base, even though they new the rulebook and game had issues. Many reviews after echoed SU and SD's review
Agreed. Additionally, and I say this as one that spent decades exclusively playing them, tabletop miniatures wargames have had extremely little rules innovation in my lifetime. The fans of such simply don't mind that most of them are rehashed versions of each other (which is okay! everyone can like what they want....I still like it from time to time). For wargaming, it's mostly about the miniatures.
@@marfin4325 Precisely because it is a measurement of how consistently repeatable an experience is and has nothing to do with how enjoyable it is. In other words, EQUAL is the metric itself, not GOOD/BAD. Despite having replayability as a talkign point, Zee absolutely failed to get across how replayable the game actually is, this desptie him allegedly spending more than a week on it.
Had this on the pile of Keep Or Dump and this review solidified the answer. Thanks for taking the hit of lost time for me. This helped a ton, three years later!
As a person who has actually played this I can give a fairly balanced perspective on this. Reichbusters has a lot of components so the first thing you will be doing is sorting things to create the best play experience possible. I'm fairly happy with my storage now but I still don't quite know the best way to store the massive number of searchable tokens in a way that I don't have to spend a few minutes flipping them all upside down and shuffling before I play. Learning keywords is not a problem as you only have a few to remember personally. I agree that they could have been streamlined as Mythic has basically found a way to make each variation on modifying dice into a separate keyword. "If you roll blanks, they can be rerolled". "Once per attack you can reroll a dice". "If you roll a blank it can be turned to a one". All different skills. But you do get to know them pretty quickly. The early game is an absolute blast. Sneaking in and trying to silence a room of around 4 soldiers is great. Play cards cards cards. It feels amazing. It is really important to move through the map quickly as the alarm sounding is bad - for two reasons. Obviously having every enemy unit on the board wake up and come after you is bad in game. But the mechanics for moving and attacking with multiple things is just painful. Move all soldiers, move zombies, move dogs, move officers, move scientists, move experiment dogs of scariness. Each group moves in order, all across the map. And then they all attack. This group on you, this group on him, this one guy by himself, this cluster works together. And that big mess would be fine if it happened occasionally. Zombicide does this. Move and bite, spawn. Very quick. But with Reichbusters you do this headache after every hero has a turn. And by this time you might be hurting and low on cards. So your turn is shoot at that group with some card help and move one. A very quick turn. Now time for 40 enemies to move and individually attack again! So when I say get to the objective quickly, it is important as that means you will have killed off a lot of bad guys who won't spawn and slow the game down after the alarm. This one problem is why the first mission was an absolute blast and my second game as a random raid mission was a slog to the death. Mission 1 has no post alarm phase. Anyway, my wife and I have agreed to play this as a campaign and we are really excited about it. It obviously hasn't put us off.
Ooh, and final note. I have watched every play through video, review and unboxing for the last year and a half. I have watched this game develop and I have a base level understanding of the rules long before my game arrived. That makes a massive difference. The rulebook is strangely organised and even I struggled to find some nuances. But because I already knew the game I found it a lot less of a struggle than some people will.
A few things. People acknowledging Zee's honest opinion. Why isn't this a comment in all of his reviews. He's a very consistent reviewer. Also, commenting that you are glad you didn't back the game. You should be glad you backed it in the beginning. If you weren't, why ever back anything? Why gamble with your money? You are backing something you believe in, not to wait for someone's review. There are rulebooks, gameplay videos, tabletop simulators, etc. Plenty of info to make a well-informed decision. I'm glad the game was made and for those that backed it, to be able to get a game they helped come to fruition. Non-backer before I get that assumption.
I think a lot of consumers will adore this game and have lots of fun - thats what its all about. I didnt back this game for the reason Zee covers here.. but i do think many folk will have so much fun with this one.
I totally respect your frustration. I can tell how much you wanted to enjoy the game and just not being able to is infuriating. Since I am waiting on it myself, I guess I have work to do to make it work for me. Thanks for the heads up.
Zee is our favorite reviewer at the dice tower. My wife and I tend to agree with his picks more than Tom or Sam. Just wanted to say thank you for the review as positive feedback sometimes gets left unsaid. We really like the step by step review at the end of the videos and personally I like that you tend to show 2player layouts for multiplayer games. Thanks for the reviews Zee. They're very appreciated.
@@thedicetower It was more about who plays (and/or likes to play) this kind of games more. From what I can tell, Zee plays other kinds of games much more, doesn't he?
@@vonwoolf9963 He plays this kind of game quite a bit. See Hate, Claustrophobia, The Others, etc. As it is, he gave it a VERY thorough look through. He took it home and studied it for weeks after our initial playthrough.
@@thedicetower Really?? If Zee AND Roy both disliked it, given that they both enjoy this type of game, I'm starting to think I dodged a bullet passing on the KS which i was following up until the PM closed.
Secret passages: These are not in the regular campaign. Page 6 of the scenario informs you to take these cards out of the room deck for regular campaign. These are only used on the raid mode. As for the other issues, I completely respect your opinion and will take caution when I set up my game to play for the first time. Thank you for the review.
Interesting that Zee's comment about how long things take compared to how long they'd take in real life is exactly the same as what i thought watching the SU&SD playthrough of Frosthaven ;)
I watched this and was not really into the game but Zee's points at the final thoughts about Kickstarter add on's for the sake of it is one I totally agree. Make the game a good game, not for Kickstarter and if for Kickstarter, then just stick to making toys if the game being the best it can be is not the objective anymore.
I expect this was not a very comfortable review for Zee to do, given it's the first from Mythic Games since Sam went to work for them. I respect him not holding back. As, I'm certain, would Sam.
Yeah, after they sacked the entire UK office, some of whom had left other jobs just 3 months before apparently. This is a company I would avoid on principle.
@@ChrisRichardsonwtfgamer Nothing against Sam. I doubt he knew the plans for the UK office when he accepted the job offer. I'm sure Sam would have little problem finding another job somewhere in the industry if Mythic do the same to him down the line.
I love watching Zee and Tom together, but sometimes I don't understand where Zee is coming from. I disagree with him frequently on these things. That being said, thank you for the excellent video and your opinion of the game.
I thoroughly read the rules and watched a play through video. Made learning and playing the game easy and great! The community has made ability reference cards for rules to skip rule book flipping. These things alone make the major negatives in this video moot points. This is no zombicide though, or a hack and slash. The point is stealth (like the old pc game commandos). It does this well, and the ability cards of heroes really add depth and strategy to the game. I like DT but think this review was a bit biased. To each their own (and Zee don't have to like the game). However, I hope this doesn't hurt future sales as the game is ace and currently my daily go to game.
I love this game. Can't stop thinking about it all day and want to run home and play it everynight. Of course I love coop tactical games so if that's not ur cup of tea then I could see it being Meh for that person.
@@jhowd78 They already got the money off the KS and don't care about bad reviews because this was never a game for retail. They pay for the hype up front, so actual honest reviews don't matter now. Suckers already got sucked in.
Well, bad reviews might have implications for future projects. Are you gonna buy games from a publisher that has had several games reviewed negatively? I won't, as you can have serious doubts about the quality.
Reichbusters is definitely indicative of 'dungeon crawl bloat' - the type of experience where gameplay slows down enormously and gets hopelessly lost in detailed rule-searching instead of speeding up the action. The more I play dungeon crawls, the looser I interpret the rules. But it's hard, it really is because part of the allure of playing board games is the intellectual pursuit of the exercise itself. We WANT to read the rules, we DESIRE to play it by the book and we CRAVE to win by beating it. So, 'playing loose and fast', as I'm training myself to do in order to get through a game in less than an hour or two, feels like watering down the experience and the value (and purpose) of the game...and so we get sucked back into re-reading the bloated (and sometimes really poorly written) rulebooks while playing the game. Let's hope Solomon Kane from Mythic is a more joyful experience...
In the Mission book before playing a campaign game, it says to remove 3 cards from the game, 2 of the cards are the Secret Passage cards as they are not used in campaign play. That would explain why you couldn't find the rules explanation and it not making sense. The rule book isn't the best i have to admit but i personally think the game is great, yes there are a lot of keywords but after playing the game a few times i imagine i becoming quite smooth.
Thanks for the review. I purchased this game as my first foray into KS (and probably my last) based on the concept and the minis. Watching some of the play-throughs out there it still appears to be fun to me, but I can see how it could be a slow crawl. Hopefully Mythic or the community can help tighten up the rules to make it a more enjoyable experience. Either way I do find the minis look pretty cool.
Dont know if he is the right reviewer for this type of game. Tom, Roy where you at? Joke on the side, decided not to back this after watching playthrough and sure enough it showed me enough back then
I dont think Dice Tower has the right reviewer for Ameritrash mini heavy games anymore. the guy doing that Sam just left the Dice Tower to join guess what, the company who produced this game: Mythic Games. Lol
I respect Zee's opinion and I understand that he may be tired of this type of game, but encourage everyone interested in Rechbusters to watch this playthrough: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pwinJAxOhQ4.html. There are no opinions in it - just a clear presentation of the rules, and it's the same mission as in the Dice Tower review. Hope it help You to judge by yourself.
Love, love, love to see an honesty and detailed review. I think it's not easy or pleasing to devote time to review deeply a game you don't like at all. Thanks for the review Zee! This review is a perfect example of why I see Dice Tower's content. TOP!
I’ll play the game for myself to see how it is. I don’t blindly trust Zee’s opinion because he has a much different taste in games. I’m still butthurt from buying Oceanos because of his review lol.
Strange Review... complaining about rules, while obviously not even caring for them 2 seconds after he himself read them aloud (see 1 hit per black die). Seems like someone was pi...ed and just wanted to be done before he even started.
I'm waiting on this one to arrive, hopefully I like it better than Zee does. After watching this review it really makes me want to watch the scathing one he recorded first, sounds like it would be good to watch. I respect your opinion but I'm hoping ours differ as this has been one of my most anticipated KS games.
Mythic has a bad reputation with me now since all the Kickstarters I backed from them received 1.5 updates later for they weren't fully developed/tested/balanced at the time they were delivered. I won't back any of their 'first release' Kickstarters anymore. Edit: I backed both Mythic Battles Pantheon and Joan of Arc from Mythic Games.
Sebastian G. Didn’t realize this was a problem with their games.... Always check out their new shiny on Kickstarter but have never bit. Glad to have passed on this after watching the video. But after this post, glad to have passed on any of their games... after it happens with one or 2 games you’d think they’d get better at play testing... god knows they have enough a following they’d easily find folk who’d test a pre-production copy for them... I’ve seen other posts saying after playing it enough times you get used to it and figure it out. if I waited 14 months for a $100 game, I am invested enough where I HAVE to play it multiple times solo or with family, and get to the point of smooth gameplay. But I’ve also found if it’s that cumbersome to learn, it’s often worse to teach, plus when asking the group what they want to play, it’s never the complicated game. Either way, it’s a $100 box that stays on the shelf - neither a toy to display nor a practical game. It DOES show however I’m either a snooty gamer or how much time I spend on KS
"all of the Kickstarters"? Only one (Joan of Arc) has been delivered sofar and that will indeed get a 1.5 update. But it's the only one sofar. Are you purposely misleading people here?
Zee Garcia is a great guy! Like him I think Seven Sins: The Others is a fantastic game, one of the best horror games out there. In this video however he gives the impression of a guy who has to do this review and just wants it to be over.
Seeing that after "testing" the game, he doesn't even know what "precise" does, which is a pretty relevant starting keyword and seeing that he does not even apply it correctly in this review 2 seconds after checking what it does in the rulebook ( 8:27 ), I really have to doubt he even tried to learn the game... Same with the whole tone of the review. You can dislike a game and still state its positive sides and negative sides in a professional and neutral tone, or you can choose one that really tries to make the game look as unenjoyable as possible. Zee did the latter. Same again with the whole "keyword galore" part. Sure, there are a lot. But really, as I understood it, you have to remember 4 or 5 maximum at a time, and they seem pretty easy and to the point. Still, Zee decided to show the whole list, acting like that is something you have to learn and know by heart before your first game. Same again with that "I think that's how this works, if not: rulebook"-mentality. If you don't know how the game works and clearly are not giving a damn learning it because it seems to be too much effort to watch a play-through, how can you expect to do a usefull review on it? Don't get me wrong, if the average player is not able to learn the game from the rulebook, it is flawed and an issue that has to be pointed out. But a reviewer should still not stop at that point, if that is even the case here and the problem was not just a lack of interest and effort, but should still try to learn the game IMO, or just not review it. Did not back and do not own the game myself, so I have no stakes in this one, but from one preview video I seem to have understood more of this game than this dude got from "testing" the game...so, only halfway through the review, but it already seems REALLY dishonest and biased.
These guys learn and review tons of games, mind you. If a game requires too much effort to be able to learn and play it, then that's a noticeable flaw, and it's definitely their job to notify us of that. There might be some gamers, mostly the backers, who would put that much effort into the game. He mentioned positive points he found out playing this game. He took some time to record a second time his review to have a clearer mind about it. About the analogy with Zombicide, if you've played it, the actions are point to point similar. Yeah, the whole gist of it is stealth, but you're doing typically the exact same things while trying to stay hidden. I love stealthy games, there are not tons of them out there. I might even enjoy this game. But I still can see his points.
Great review Zee. Allot of butthurt KS fanboys here (just like when Death May Die didn't get 4/10). For those that say Tom or Roy would've done a better review, keep in mind that Dice Tower normally gets the person who liked it most to do the review.
Zee has no problem with some of these exact same issues when it's CMON making the game. For instance, he doesn't have a problem with a "long list of traits" when it's a Zombicide game, but he finds it unacceptable here. Strange.
zombicide is a super simple streamlined game where one or two page of keywords pretty much the only difficult thing to follow so not sure you can compare
A review is an opinion. This game looks neat and playing with devs or someone who has a solid 10 times might ease the frustration. I've also been the guy sorting through 4 different rule books to come up with a sentence or 2 or just not find it. I think the idea is that Zee was not interested, curious, or excited when going on a rule hunt. A game this thick usually means you need to be excited to discover and learn. If you're not then it's a task or could compare to a job. I would try this out personally. I do see where Zee is coming from as well. Rulebook paralysis is a game killer.
Thanks for the honest review Zee. However i think it would have been better if your message to the developer was develop good games AND develop excellent miniatures, as opposed to pick a side be either a good toy maker, or a game maker. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive.
It would be helpful to hear how much he played the game. How many scenarios? What player counts? Did he not start remembering terms and be able to ditch the manuals? I mean most all of my meaty games start out that way for the 1st few games.
Zee doesnt like the game, all his points are valid, however, there are also people who will love it ... i think it will be quite polarizing but it was also made as just some hack and slash... in saying that, i dont think its a game for me either.
@@tiagoazevedosoares 1. I am not complaining, just asking. 2. I am asking because his main complaint is having to continually reference the rules, so it would be interesting to know if he had played 20 games and was STILL having to reference it or if he had just played a couple rounds. So in THIS instance I think it is a fair question.
I think it's quite obvious that the more you play a game the more comfortable you'll be with the rules. I believe these guys can't afford to play game 20 times before reviewing it. If you play it 2 or 3 times and every single play is slogged because you have to check the rulebook every 5 minutes, then there's definitely something wrong with the game. That's my point.
@@tiagoazevedosoares Going by that premise it would be obvious that Vital Lacerda games are all horrible games but many would say quite the opposite. I think the question is fair and its strange for you to be up in arms over a fair question. It would add insight so my question to you would be "Explain why insight is a bad thing?"
Finally well articulated and honest criticism. And for sure you don’t like a “car” that has Lamborghini appearance and engine of a tractor... it crumbles under engines weight. But again some people like it and that’s ok... but in classical sense it’s not polished nor elegant. I sympathize a lot with Zee’s honest clarity on the subject.
It destroys their hopes a dreams of it being a good review with a good game. Seriously, the Batman Gotham City Chromicles Fanboys went nuts when Shut up and sit down gave it a horrid rating. Many of them didn't know that they also gave Conan by The same makers, Monolith, an amazing game
I backed this and watched play through videos and understand what the game is about. I wish Zee would go into what he thinks can be streamlined to be more specific rather than just say it. But this also isn't his type of game at all so I can be confident that my impressions from play throughs will be better than the review.
It's probably hard to forgive this kind of stuff after playing Cthulhu death may die, which in a ton of ways addresses all of these problems he mentioned.
He recorded it twice. I wouldn't put more effort into 5 mins of a game I clearly did not like in the final thoughts portion. It's hard brother. He looks like he came from a place of anger. When he says "read the rules" that's never ever a good thing
@@jhowd78 sure. But still you're doing a review. If you're making big statements like cut out 30% I'd like to hear examples. For example I like Nemesis but I would cut out the crafting system, the injury system, and some of the events in the event deck because it either bogs it down or is bad design.
@@codydavis3100 he mentioned the level of upkeep you have to do. Looking things up because their are so many key words. These are things you could have shaved down design wise to make it more streamlined. I'm ok with long playtime and heavy rule books, but the game has to be fun. It was clear it was not fun for him and that's ok.
Interesting. The last time I remember such a negative review from the DT, it was on B-Sieged and Gears of war. Both of them were stellar games. So high hopes now. ;)
Die Nische ya b-sieged is so wildly popular its $50 online 🙄 - the thing is people who didnt drop $200 on the ks havent brainwashed themselves into thinking the mechanics of these games isnt junk so in the real world, nobody wants to play these crap mechanics games and people who want to spend $200 on awesome looking minis just buy awesome looking minis without a broken game they convinced themselves isnt
@@seancole22 Interesting...I played that game in several rounds (students, Non-gamers, hardcore-gamers) and all of them loved it because of its intensity and cooperation. All brainwashed? Seriously?
Die Nische The way I remember it is that B-Sieged was ok if you own everything from the KS but as a base retail version of the game it was awful. Basically they raised a number of issues with the game which apparently were “fixed” by the KS exclusives, so basically anyone buying the retail version isn’t getting a full game.
Sorry, I have it, backed the KS. Your view on B-Sieged isn't backed up by #1 many other reviewers, #2 BGG, and #3 by actual sales. Copies were left in stores, who eventually had to discount heavily to get rid of them. Can't comment on Gears of War. Just because you like something considered 'bad' doesn't invalidate your opinion of your liking of the game. There is a ton of stuff I like and is considered 'bad', be it movies, series, books, anime, board games, RPGs, computer games, etc.
Now I'm a bit worried about Solomon Kane. It's been clear the play-testing they do is largely in-house only which IMO is always a bad idea. Fingers crossed...
Same, Joanne of Arc was a miss for me and from what I hear on Reichbusters, it could be a bust for me as well...which doesn't bode well for Solomon Kane, where they fired the development team some time ago.
Thanks for the great review Zee! I wasn't sure how you would feel, as I know you vastly prefer streamlined games in the genre, but your criticisms really shine a light on some of the issues. I almost backed this game on KS, but passed on the last minute. There is so much about the game that is right up my alley; unique heroes with unique hero decks, the "Raid" mode that lets you mix an enemy faction with a scenario, etc. Also, the theme is AMAZING!! Clearly, they needed an outside source to review the rulebook, and usability (similar to monolith with Batman GCC). I can handle a large number of keywords in a game like this, if they are easy to reference (like on a players card, player aid, etc). Oh well, it seems they missed the mark. Fortunately, there are a number of games in the genre that do it better (for me at least), even if this theme is among my favorites!
not the best "excuse" but you can almost guarantee a player aid of all the terms in an easier to pass around manner will be available on BGG. Though, yes, it shouldnt be necessary. But it's already being discussed in the KS comments, so a better player aid is coming.
and just like that: boardgamegeek.com/thread/2405466/reichbusters-heroes-sheets-competence These are awesome and made to look like hero cards! And as another commenter mentioned, the enemy cards have their "talents" on them, but that wasnt shown on the review
@8:28 - each black and red die adds 1 hit to the total. @8:54 You rolled 4 dice in total, plus the star = 6 hits then, no? I would really have appreciated more of a rules explanation. This was very minimal.
@@CharlesBoyung True it's not, but better have things right when you review a game... especially when you criticize having to go back to the rulebook a lot and can't apply what you have just read
This actually makes me wonder how or why the folks at the DT actually decide what they review. Regardless, I can’t help but wonder if there’s more going on here than Zee let on in this review.
eeeks, i hope solomon kane will be good otherwise, mythic games' future don't look too good from backers getting burned. thanks for being brutally honest! before watching i thought i'd have to view it from perspective of a friend review(maybe more of jilted lover review?). well it'll be here next week and i'll probably still pop the plastic to see for myself... maybe i'll read rulebook pdf first actually
If you only go by this review, I can understand, but have you looked at other reviews and seen some gameplay videos? Please do before making a judgement :) You might come to the same conclusing as Zee, but it will be your own review.
@@marmank don't get me wrong, I'm glad i didn't back it but if other reviewers give it better praise the of course I'll give it a shot if I have a chance to play it. If anything I should have said I'm glad i didn't pay those extortionate prices on ebay.
@@marmank I saw the gameplay on Beast of War, I wasn't too thrilled with it, it seemed unfocused and boring. I was on the fence and pledged a dollar, just in case. I saw that gameplay a few more times and wasn't impressed. Zee's review backed up with what I saw and made an inference.
@@MarioMartinez-ek5ev I just played a bit and I liked it, so I am glad I pledged for it. But I can see why others might not like it. For me it was definitely not boring, even though I played only a few rounds :)
Zee, I appreciate you give your honest opinion about the game whether it is good or bad and you kept it professional even though it shows you really disliked this one.
I don't believe he's played V-Commandos. But this and V-Commandos are different beasts. In VC, you really don't want to cause a ruckus, waiting until the absolute last chance to do so, because the difficulty really ramps up when you do. From my one play of Reichbusters thus far, it's more interested in budgeting how much of a ruckus you cause. So, similar, but each has a different feel.
I'm not sure why alternative World War II is so popular. Aliens and zombies, female soldiers, and weird weapons are usually the reason I suspect. Wasn't World War Two fascinating and horrific enough? I'll pass.
Adding aliens and weird weapons is the opposite of more terrifying. Distancing it from reality makes it less horrific. Too close to reality bothers some people.
@@B0rghalRantipole : Yeah, I'm not buying that. The end of WWII was 75 years ago so "too close to home" doesn't work. Video games, movies, and some board games try to be a realistically horrific as possible. Nah, I think it's because they believe younger people won't find the material interesting without aliens or zombies and then add as many female "soldiers" as possible to be gender-neutral or intersectional or whatever crap that's fed to millennials.
@@tempestfury8324 Too close to home in this instance does not mean "my grampa was at Stalingrad", it just means it's realistic. It's the same thing with TV shows, video games etc., like exaggerated violence is less scary than realistic depictions of it, because with realistic you subconsciously think "this could happen to me" and with the comic book level stuff you don't.
is it popular? outside of Wolfenstein ( the pc/console game) it hasn't been on the tabletop side of things: Dust, Konflict, Incursion, etc. Have not been that popular as mini and boardgames
Phew! Glad I decided not to back this one. I l was almost pulled in by the awesome minis but I have so many minis heavy co-op games that I decided I didn't need another one right now.
YES! Thank you so much. I’ve had a hard time putting into words why I dislike this game so much. It had the potential to be a good game- but took us almost 6 hours total to understand all the rules, play it, have to look back at the rules, take a break, watch videos, go back to playing, get more confused and get mad. (We were able to crack out a few rounds but 🙄) - the game play was confusing and unsatisfying. The missions didn’t make any sense with the stretch goals. Just overall a game I don’t see us pulling out to play again for a long long lonnnnnng time.
@@B0rghalRantipole I think you would play Hellboy for the theme if you are a fan - not really for the game as it is pretty bare bones. So having fun with it depends on what you expect and how much you play these types of games - i found it to be pretty boring. Without having played Reichbusters is guess Hellboy is less complicated.
@@B0rghalRantipole Hellboy is more smackdown smash, with some investigation. It's loads of fun, by what this game looks like, less meandering and plodding
Seems like a board game for tabletop wargamers who want a cooperative game. He's bogged down in keywords, and I'm thinking you've never had an argument with someone about what constitutes a "daemon". His points are fair. This is a bad game for normies. They will hate it.
I know this is blasphemous but I think the gloomhaven games fall in this area of being bloated in components. Luckily it's still an amazing game but Kickstarters and their backers need to stop being hyped about useless components. I'm becoming more and more hesitant to back a (wonderfully designed) core game that comes in a nice medium sized 5lb box, but after all is said and done with the KS campaign, the game is delivered to you and it weighs around 20lbs and won't fit on your shelf
isn't gloomhaven a game in which a 20m turn is replicated in 3 seconds on a pc game like diablo? or if you want more story, an rpg like pillars of eternity? i find dungeon crawlers underwhelming for this reason alone.
@@ubiquidade don't underestimate gloomhaven, it's still a wonderful strategic game. The combat is leagues better than Pillars or Diablo. As far as story it's...meh. it's weakest point is that nothing developes outside of the combat stage. but I wouldn't put games like Pillars, or BG, or Divinity on a pedestal either. Basically they have enough plot to last 25 hours. And for whatever reason, chapter 2 (in all those games) turns into a grind or fetch fest of 20 hours, with zero plot development, probably just so the devs can say they have an 60-80 hour RPG. And games cRPGs like Pillars or Eternity plague you with constant non thrilling, zero challenge, fights scattered all over the place. Again, probably just to act as a filler. The enriching part of GH is the combat depth and gameplay mechanics. It's like you enjoy the ride more than the destination. (Diablo is barely what I would consider an RPG. It's just loot gathering and taps into people's primal subconscious of just clicking. I'll put Diablo more in the realm of Candy Crush than compare it to Pillars of Eternity or Gloomhaven)
@@crushingit5128 If it's all about combat then Diablo is actually the closest. I don't recall the game I played (perhaps Descent?) and my experience was, "I'll move here and attack!" Proceeded by everyone taking 5m to play their turn (15m) and then the monsters upkeep, another 5m, and I just thought to myself, "why am I playing this?" In any pc game this would've taken literally 2-3 seconds of gameplay. Is gloomhaven any different?
@@ubiquidade The action selection is what makes Gloomhaven unique in the genre and far from something like Diablo. You're picking 2 cards each round that determine your initiative and actions you get to take. It's tactical, so obviously you're still moving and attacking. But, the actions are so unique per class, that it doesn't feel same-y. Plus the hand management of not being able to get played cards back until you rest makes it more puzzle-y with clever play generally being rewarded. I've enjoyed many CRPGs, but I wouldn't say that combat is their strong suit. Games like Pillars are pretty bloated with mediocre combat. How many hoards of the same enemy do players really need to fight? Especially, when the tactics don't change. Tank engages enemies, toss in a few summons as meat shields, the DPS kill the enemies while a character tosses out buffs/heals. These games end up being about min/maxing via leveling and equipment. Gloomhaven kind of side-steps that by the player needing to make decisions each round. The other nice thing is that about the time when combat feels samey for a character, you're retiring them (unless you get stuck on your personal quest) and starting up a new character with a different play style.
I backed this game to the max. This is the first I've seen it on the table or anything and after listening to you I still think it looks great. I mean who can't remember a couple of keywords for their character? Come on dude :p Looks exactly like zombicide invader which is class and my group enjoyed a lot. I don't know. I feel like there maybe some underlying saltiness/sadness here from Sam bailing to Mythic? Sorry Zee. You're a top guy, meeting you in person was a delight, but I don't really see the problems that you see here and I am still excited to get this 4/10 lol game to the table. I will super bare in mind that you had a bad run of it and attempt to prepare better for the first table sitting, you do us all a great service with these videos dude.
Typically Sam would have reviewed this game... and I bet he would give a positive review... Totally respect Zee has different and valid perspectives but interesting how the choice who will review the game will make this a 4 or a 7, or even get a DT seal of approval/excellence.
Yeah, pretty glad I backed out of this one. Even before your final thoughts I was thinking this game looks pretty fiddly and bogged down in bloat. A shame as the whole sneak in, blast out structure could be quite fun. Have you played the Hellboy boardgame, Zee? I don't tend to like many games in this genre for similar reasons to you but I quite liked that one. Quite smooth playing and has some nice twists to it.
Am interested in getting Hellboy, but what you call smooth playing I found other people calling simplistic, so how much depth is there to gameplay? I wouldn't feel great buying such a huge box just to roll some dice and do what they say.
Thank you for this review. I to is so annoyed by bad rulebooks and lack of playtests and stream lining. Actually i love this review, so honest, i respect that.
Money pumped into fancy minis instead of gameplay mechanics and playtesting. I see it a lot on Kickstarters these days, unfortunately. Thanks for the review and for taking a look into this!
Having Zee do a review of a tactical war game is like asking Sam to review a drafting game with deduction as the main mechanic. Some people should stick to their guns and not make themselves look like fools. Zee hates this type of game. I guess Spacehulk also gets a 4/10 from Zee.
Thank you for an honest opinion. Good minis, nice artwork, and marketing does not make a good game. Please can publishers take note of this. You are spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on making flashy stuff for your game to look pretty. But if people can't learn how to play because your rulebook needs so much work, they are just toys.
And how is this any different than Zombicide? I guess since it has a little more meat than Zombicide, anyone with the attention span of a gnat will probably not like it.
It's strange to see Zee reviewing this type of miniatures game when his ideal game weight is a simple trick taking game. Rule book and missing of good player aids were something i really didnt like in Batman made by Monolith games so i kinda understand how much it plays down the feeling towards the game. Those are easy to fix by yourself if you have a printer, but at the same time i would say that i dont want to fix player aids when i have paid so much for the game already. It needs to be a good experience through and through.
It's not strange at all. He has repeatedly professed his love for the Weird War II subgenre and likes several miniatures-based games. He just likes those with clean and streamlined rules more. And say what you will about Mythic, their rulebooks are certainly not the best.
