Relational aggression why women hurt each other | Kris Stewart | TEDxPenticton 

Perhaps as we are trying to fix boys at an early age to respect girls, we need to start fixing girls at an early age to respect girls.

in my experience, no amount of 'kill them with kindness' can override an infinite level of insecurities

As a man who predominantly works with women, I see how hateful they are to each other. Very often they will socialize outside of work and then gossip about each other's husbands, homes, weight, finances etc. I don't understand why they pretend to like each other only to stab each other in the back.

People who need you to coddle them just so they don't become passive aggressive towards you are not people worth your time.

If these are the tactics it takes to work with women, I’m out. This is nuts. You shouldn’t have to pet your coworkers. You go to work to do your job. Period.

The best woman employer I ever had insisted on saying I worked with her, not for her. We ended up working together for over 20 years until a family situation caused the business to close. The woman was a marvel at making us all feel valued. The happiest 20 years of my life!

I resigned from a relatively prestigious career because of the female to female aggression. Now I have a very mundane job but I get to work alone and I’ve never been happier.

"She was morbidly obese, but we overlooked that." I highly doubt the enlightenment of anyone who would utter that statement.

I don't agree that I need to bring my self esteem down to someone else's level. If other women are insecure and feel horrible about themselves, why should I mirror that? To protect myself from them? It is not a healthy mindset. If my confidence scares them, that's a problem with them not me. Confident women build each other up. Insecure, self loathing women lash out and tear down. I can feel confident about myself while being kind and loving and know that if they lash out at me, it is just their insecurities. Insecurity is the killer among women. That is why they feel the need to level the playing field. I will not mirror insecurity to protect myself.

This doesn't work with bullies. They have low self-esteem and they aren't happy until they have destroyed anyone they deem "better" than they are.

Jealous insecure women. I have been at the receiving end of vicious women on numerous occasions in the workplace. Yup women can be the worst co-workers. Everything you described I, too, have experienced..

I don’t agree that I have to dim my light so others don’t feel slightly. Shine your light bright so others can feel the freedom to do the same. Let’s all be the best versions of ourselves. Women don’t need to downplay their strengths to make other women feel better. This is not how we support each other. Shine your light sisters!! We are in this together - support and encourage each other to be the best we can be!!

She mentioned at the beginning that the young lady was morbidly obese. What does that have to do with anything? Her speech begins with a shaming tactic. Is SHE engaging in relational aggression herself? YES!

Give me a male boss over a female boss any day!! I've had many of each. Most of my men bosses were calm, business like, conflict- solving and approachable. There were exceptions but that was the rule. It was the opposite with the women. Most of my female bosses were insecure, unpredictable, conflict-provoking, and unapproachable. I had only one woman boss who was great to work for. I don't know if that's unusual, but that was my experience.

"She was morbidly obese but we hired her." This talk is a woman throwing other women under the bus.

My grandpa used to always say , “Most women want all other women dead but themselves “... as a teenager I didn’t understand what he meant . As soon as I hit 30 , I heard him loud and clear. I think I was somewhat sheltered as a child and didn’t realize how cruel women could be even for simply having on a pretty dress. Even so-called friends” can’t stand tall unless you’re on your knees”.... I’m glad I’m not like that but I hate that women can’t just bask in their own success without being bitterly opposed to another woman’s....

I can sooo relate. Women on women aggression began in my family of origin with a mentally ill Mum. This power imbalance (mothers who eat their young) has adversely affected all areas of my life. Passive competition by gossip and gaslight.

If you look different from the rest they tend to judge u pretty harshly.

Some of the worst bullying I've ever experienced in my life was in the workplace from female colleagues. In fact it was so bad, it's part of my cptsd issues & I've struggled to go back to work because of those experiences

As someone who was bullied by a female co worker at a past job and did the "solutions" she recommended as it comes pretty naturally to people pleasers it did not help at all. I was overly friendly and nice to this woman and she was cold, mean, and insulting to me from the first day I got hired. I spoke with our supervisor about her lying about me, pushing me and being rude and he said "I'm too busy to deal with all that. Just be nice to her." I quit after a month. Typically if that behavior is being tolerated in the workplace then the place as a whole or at least the managers are bad as well.

Raise your hand if you personally feel victimized by Regina George.

You can be a good example but you CAN'T change people. You have to have boundaries in life. In a toxic environment you have to learn how to nurture yourself. You can help people and love yourself at the same time. If things get out of hand and it drains you then look for ways to move on.

I can only go by my personal stats. 9 male bosses - 8 were great - relaxed, look after you, the worst quality they had was maybe incompetence, but super nice people. 1 was narcissistic but we're still friends. Had 5 female bosses. 4 were despicable creatures, intensely jealous, ineffective and petty. So as a woman, do I think women sabotage each other? YES. Is this why men do better? Yes. I swore to myself I will never lower myself to their level.

Because this behaviour is non agressive its never talked about and it's very damaging. I have seen it happen to other women and it has also happened to me. I call it toxic femininity

Honestly as a woman I think one of the root causes of why women are so toxic to each other is because they’re so high strung and neurotic. They take every single possible word, action, look, whatever detail and hyper analyze and scrutinize it, and gossip about these things endlessly among themselves. Women with more relaxed and laidback personalities are much, much, much better to be around and not toxic whatsoever. You just have to learn how to differentiate these two kinds of women, and stick to the latter. With the former, you just have to try to stay as simple and polite as possible, and endure it

There's been a lot of discussion in society about toxic masculinity, and that's an important subject that needs to be talked about. But this video underscores that toxic femininity is very much a thing as well, and it also needs to be addressed.

I first learned of this about ten years ago when my girlfriend would get home from work & everyday she would be complaining about a female coworker. A lot of the time she would be upset about something that sounded like nothing to me. I thought she was paranoid; boy, was I naive. Navigating that psychological mind field sounds like a nightmare. So glad I’m a man!!!

I needed to hear this. I too worked in the health system and understood the main game was never the work or patient care but a mystifying system of power which I would never play even if I could.

I went through the same bloody experiences all along my life. But betrayed by women who were supposed to be friends. Nice talk and nice woman but it is impossible to deal with women that are jelous and want everybody in the same level. Your mother was right, jelousy is the problem and there is no way to deal with this sort of women. Just quit them, get away.

Yeah no thanks I’m not gonna fake it. Women can attack me for being confident but there’s no need to make myself insecure to COMFORT an insecure woman. Take care of yourself that’s not my job.

I had this problem in all my jobs. Even working in a management level... what also often happens is when the play the boss. Another strategy, when you complain about respectless behavior, is to spread rumors about your mental health, saying you are sensitive, to demoralize and discredit the victim voice. I remember being tired of this and deciding to be a freelancer. What happens in my main profession is that it takes an amount of effort also working just for certain period of time to know new people, gain trust and etc. I am about to quit the job that could be my dream job, where I planned to stay till retirement. The reason? Explained by the video above!

I think that's playing into it...Building other women up is a great idea...But playing all the "girl rules" doesn't necessarily make everything better.

If you are a more calm, welcoming type it gets registered as a victim by jealous women at work

What she says is SO spot on! Especially her advice at the very end. I was rather blindsided by a very toxic female supervisor at a University in a mostly female department. Prior to that role, I had been working in the corporate sector with mostly men as a Finance & Business Operations professional. I’m SO horrified and traumatized by the absolute sociopath (a passive aggressive, manipulative, conniving back-stabbing gossip) who I reported to, that I will always PAUSE before considering working for a female & in a mostly female environment EVER again!

Pick friendships that lift you up, support you in your progress, and you do the same for them.

Have had a similar experience. Women bully other women.

It’s exhausting working with women and sometimes being friends with them. This is one of the reasons I’m going into STEM - male dominated and tends to draw less of these types. With friendships, I look for women that don’t take themselves too seriously. I’ve encountered too much bad behavior from women, mostly in the form of tear downs to mask their insecurities and to attempt at making themselves look better. It’s not your or my job to put band aids on people’s egos while they happily throw rocks at you.

Great point, Kris Stewart ! I've never seen anybody , especially a woman , talking about it that boldly and straight to the point. I've experienced that at many work places at the biggest companies in the world and Canada. You can't solve a problem without mentioning what the problem is. Thank you

As a man it’s horrible to see women doing this to one another. In the past I’ve been in workplaces that have been highly female dominated and have also witnessed women bullying other women. What I don’t understand is how women can be so caring, empathetic, supportive of each other (generally speaking more so than men) and yet on the other hand the completely vile to one another.

Gender aggression is mostly due to socialization and this starts as early as age 3. Even though men are apt to inflict direct physical aggression, IMO, it's not as bad as the indirect psychological and social aggression that women are apt to inflict on others. In fact, indirect psychological and social aggression can negatively affect your physical and mental health. To be blatantly honest, female aggression can be cruel and immature. Of course men can do this to, but I'm basing this off of what I learned in my Social Psychology class and my personal experiences. Anyhow, psychological abuse can last a lifetime, depending on how severe it is and humans are social by nature. It's not easy to be rejected by your social group and acquiring new genuine friends can take awhile, especially w/ our overuse of social media.

Narcissists hate kind gentle people. I have been a victim of medical abuse so good for her for admitting her professions faults.

YES!! I quit the medical profession and I won't look back. I even loathe being a patient.

good golly miss molly. even the solution to this problem is unethical and disturbing. so you want to solve relational aggression by being more relationally-aggressive? weird. super weird.

I can relate to this woman on getting fired for little or no reason at all. I will say being nice, respectful, and kind has gotten me nowhere in the workplace. No matter how hard I work or how kind I am women will just NOT let mesucceed. They will find petty reason to fire me or harass me to the point of foolishness. This world can be a cruel UNFAIR place. I honestly could not get effective advice out of this video.

This is about women.... However, I say wow to your male partner in your past business... that he fired you...he failed to 'Communicate' with you about the employee that was complaining... That was not a partnership, unfortunately.

Well, just because someone is insecure, low self-esteem, doesnot mean I have to take myself down to their level, I have enough problem of my own. Why give compliment to someone that does not respect other's personal spaces? I couldn't agree with the idea from this video.

I don't think the level playing field works with female bullies because they are always seeking to ascend or prevent a target from achieving any success in the work place. It's the Queen Bee and Wanna bee's scenario. Without being paranoid it seems that you have to watch your back and have an exit strategy, or a way to deal with betrayal. I've worked with wonderful supervisors who deserve their positions because they care about others, the workplace, and follow whats going on and know how to deal with girl drama. Good supervisors don't ignore, or excuse what they see. However I worked for backstabbers, scheming, bitches who will never change their behavior.

Such a good speech. I've been hurt and backstabbed by so many other women for one reason or another all my life, and it's hard to trust nowadays. Very sad.

I love how you openly reference her weight for no reason and insist *she* was the one engaging in relational aggression.

As a model AND newly published author, I can attest that other women are extremely intimidated and jealous. If I were not attractive but successful, it’d be easier. Being considered more beautiful than the average woman, with a fit toned body, with skills and success....it’s been rough to say the least! As for now, I guess I’m grateful for men& strangers. To get those sales, it’s odd I had to NOT put pics of myself on my websites. It makes people more comfortable. Because, let’s face it, most avid readers in my genres are women. But in the open, I don’t hide myself and I won’t. I refuse to be less so that others feel more.

So she is basically saying the solution to this issue is to pander to these women? Don't try and improve their behaviour, don't highlight the error of their ways, don't educated them... no _you_ need to change to fit in and accommodate them?

The proposed solutions are like a bandaid for a much deeper core issue. Instead of telling women how to adapt to this messed up social dynamic, shouldn't we be talking about how to raise up little girls in a healthier social environment? Or how we need to address professional and social imbalances between men and women? I still don't quite understand how the gossip and undermining equates to leveling the playing field for women. Is it because they feel like they need to do that to be on a level playing field with men?

I find this happens most often with older women. If they have to answer to a man, they're comfortable. If they have to answer to a woman, they take anything she says as rude and pushy. If the woman they answer to tries to soften her approach, it's like blood in the water full of sharks; it makes them react worse. But younger women, especially women who played team sports growing up, they don't as often have that weird desperate need to be the only woman in the room to feel good about themselves. They also don't do that awful incompetency signal where they have a problem that need solving and when another woman steps up to help, they help they are asked for is to go find some man for the person with the problem. I deal with this often when we hire an older woman at work for our outbound clients. The phone rings interrupting my tasks and the older woman will ask me to find my male coworker to help them. I've been in my field 18 years while he's been at it for less than 5 years. Interrupting me to help with a problem is fine so long as you don't interrupt me to go fetch someone with less experience.

Women: Wants equal pay Also Women: I'm going to end this women's career!

she is amazing. she is a powerful woman, and yet confesses that she spent a year unable to finish sentences. having experienced this exact horror myself, I am so encouraged and empowered to see her impressive career!

Um it’s not just the workplace. Women are cruel to anyone who has something she doesn’t. And that ‘chip pile’: it can be torched in an instant if she feels justified in doing so.

This is so depressing- the answer to this systemic soul-destroying aggression is essentially to pander to it and debase yourself? I am a senior (female) emergency room doctor and I have to say this behaviour is absolutely rife in the hospital environment. My job is almost unbearable now, the more senior I’ve become: not because of the abuse from patients (which everyone who has been to an ER will recognise as a problem) but from the abuse from other members of staff. There is certainly a lack of respect for female doctors from male doctors and other staff. But the passive aggression from female (mostly junior to me) staff is staggering. I am not a strict/cross/angry/intimidating woman. In fact I’m probably too meek for the job I’m doing. But for patient safety, someone has to be in charge and make the decisions and that person is me. I have had to change my whole persona to do this job effectively and I now hate the person I’m becoming: shrewish and frustrated and simply disappointed. I don’t know how to break the cycle and I can’t continue in the work (that I love and am good at!) unless I become one of them. I’ve had to drop my hours to part time as my whole life was suffering from this phenomenon. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Lord I have experienced this. I have been gas lite the worst by female coworkers and bosses than I have from men (one I thought was s friend).

And women talk about men repressing them when they do it to themselves just fine. I don’t have a PHD but I know that this behavior is instilled at a young age in a girls life.

I've often had problems with women in the work place. I too was raised as the "second son" to my brother. Nurturing was neither my father's forte nor my mother's. Where I really fell down in working with women was that I refused to gossip. If someone told me a secret, it was a secret. Gossiping in a group of women somehow gives them the idea that they now own your soul. I still can't do it. It's mean and vile and making them look better than that one person they are belittling. And so, I could not be one of the "cool" women. What I did to protect myself was to keep notes. Fortunately, I always had male bosses, and because I was raised as male, I knew how to form a relationship. I also NEVER said anything bad about my workmates. To the boss, I praised them, even when he called me in to fire me. I said "I know Sarah is hard on me but that's alright...she's even harder on herself, so I'm hoping to learn something from her. This was all true. All the praises were true. These women were really good at what they did. If one of them were terribly snappish at me, I would plop myself down and say something like "what's up, Sarah? You aren't your chipper self today". I expected to be yelled at or dismissed. Well, Sarah told me her trouble was that she was going for an Mbs, and working full time was really taking it out of her (she was also organizing her wedding at the time). The first time I did this, I was surprised. However, if I had known these things you spoke of, I think I would have had an easier time of it. I still would not gossip, but I could be caring. The only trouble I always had was when the boss was a woman.

I don't talk to female co-workers outside of the office anymore. Too much past scars. From catty and snotty women, to having one try to destroy my good name by badmouthing me to everyone (even the place I went to after leaving my OG) to catching a woman and man at my current job make fun of me when I left the room.

I started my own business because I don't. Want to deal. With women any longer. Same for my personal life. I don't. Want. Them around me ever again. Always ends up. In tears.. For. Me

You have to be really careful with women. Especially the narcissist ones. You have to be careful with your words and don't work too hard because you are offending them. If they gossip or bad mouthing someone, just listen and pretend you're agreeing. Also, don't be pretty. Try to blend by wearing plain clothes so you don't stand out. You can wear make up but keep it simple. Don't be likeable and friendly too. Again, it will offend them. These are the things you have to do if you are surrounded with a bunch of girls. Or, If you have self respect, leave.

I don't know where this lady grew up but at my school the pretty blond girl always got the best dress in the dressing up box and there was no thought of a level playing field. It was those who demanded that got and the rest of us took what was left! I don't think its the case that we start out caring and unlearn it, only that children are naturally narcissistic and some people just never grow out of it. Also I do think that men can be the worst gossips and bitches in the workplace, it just gets overlooked when they do it!

I think a lot of cattiness is based on looks, youth, social power, and the status of the men they get. Women compare each other too much. Women don't know how to talk, work, socialize, etc. without sizing each other up. Men don't have this problem because men just want to find common ground and get along with one another based on the similarities they have.

I want to point out that this speaker's description of the woman in her first story was to make sure we knew that she was "morbidly obese". Why does that matter in this story? She also says that they "looked past it". Seriously? Again, what in the world does her weight have to do with this story? I find it ironic that the speaker is "complaining" that she was fired from these jobs due to gossip, berating, etc, yet she just did that exact thing on this stage. I don't feel like anyone's worth or value should be measured by how much they weigh or what dress size they wear.

I am 30 and have managed women at least 10-15 years older than me for the past 6 years. I have a very tough time to get them to get along and not be petty/mean to each other. It’s quite ridiculous. I don’t understand it as my personality is the absolute opposite of mine. Very interesting TedTalk, thank you!

The speaker is so sweet. She seems the peace maker kind of person, with extreme patience, despite being bitten more than twice.

I tried to mirror the confidence level and offer favors to women at my previous workplace. The bullying only became worst afterwards and I was called "fake" completely ostracized to the point no female who worked there would look me in the eye. The problem is with the ones in charge. If they turn a blind eye or worse participate in the bullying behavior, it wont stop.

I do not agree with the solutions. I am happy to read so many comments by others, that people watching this don't want to put on an act to be on the same level, or manipulate. I am sometimes shy and very sensitive, but I would always prefer to be told things directly than coated in manipulative fluff and bs. I would way rather be told something even a bit angrily and directly. Preferrably not angrily but I'd rather have the anger with honesty than the manipulation and not really saying what they really mean. That hurts a million times more.

So I've listened to this while cleaning my kitchen... my conclusion... this women is the problem -- in every situation she gets pushed out. Everyone can't be that wrong ;-)

I know how Kris feels. I've had two women tank my career. I'm poorer than I should have been now because I got fired twice, too. I would give anything for women to mentor each other and befriend each other, rather than stab everyone in the back.

All of my female bosses made my work in the corporate world difficult. I am a single, well-spoken, attractive and confident woman which people would suggest as reasons they may be intimidated by me and jealous. I could not fathom the idea of a superior being jealous or intimidated by me because I was never after their jobs or anything of the sort. I would often say it's the management (not true leaders) that make the work place unbearable and the job difficult but it just might be the women. I have since left corporate America and started my own company and after listening to this talk I vow to foster harmonious workplace relationships amongst all of my employees.

I find it amusing that her first story she describes the other woman as "morbidly obese" and she is the one who was constantly "replaced" at work. This should tell you she is probably not the best to take advice from. Just my two cents...

That woman got fired, not because she hired a woman and they're aggressive in a certain way, but much more strongly because she hired an alimentive. Even male alimentives use relational aggression. People should have seen the red flags of an alimentive when she was shirking work!

I hope the speaker is a lot happier and healthy! I could really feel the pain when she said she struggled for a year after losing her position in the company she co-founded. Somehow the pain and hurt is very serious when a woman hurts another woman. It comes no where close to the pain a man inflicts.

THEN WHY BLAME MEN FOR PUTTING WOMEN DOWN WHEN WOMEN THEMSELVES ARE SO DESPERATE TO PUT EACH OTHER DOWN

It can be passive aggression within us. It can be wrong picture of ourself. It can be low confidence. It can be a something complicated within us. We can’t always blame others. Sometimes we need to know yourself better and find out what kind of energy we radiate around those people.

I dont think this is a woman issue I think it's both genders. People that hurt others.

Leveling the playing field is another word for Equality. It’s a social system of manipulation and control that suppresses individual uniqueness and creates an unsafe and toxic environment, especially for those who refuse to conform.

I enjoyed the presentation, but can’t understand why she had to add in her first story about her employee “she was morbidly obese but we overlooked that.”

Does anyone else think she may have been the problem? The fact that she’s making passive aggressive statements about her “morbidly obese” employee on a live stage, is enough to see she’s the aggressor. Also, this advice is horrible, why do we have to get on other people’s confidence/self esteem level?

"she was morbidly obese" passive aggressive much?

The problem is not women , is people insecurities and men are the same way believe or not. They just don't talk about it as much.

I've tried being nice to narcissistic fellow women or some who have zero boundaries, honestly it ends in disaster. I should have just stayed away from them afterwards be it a family member or work colleague. This is the only thing that has ever worked in my life personally.

Women sabotage each other for exactly the same reason men do: envy and all the character traits that go with it.

How can you get fired without cause from a company you founded?

The conclusion makes no sense. I'm sure she was using women speak. Also, I did women speak, chip pile etc. DOES NOT WORK! Level playing for most but they play follow the leader.

I agree with everything you just said. I have been in the same situation. I am also in a heavily female work force in child care and it is sometimes an impossible struggle. I love this list

I’ve had this happen to me at 2 different companies because of women bosses trying to sabotage me and ruin my career. I definitely prefer a man as a boss.

Im a male Nursing Supervisor and i have female employees scream at me at least once a week. If i ever did the same thing id be walked out of the building. But when a female does such a thing its just understood as well im not sure what, but the meltdowns and screaming go on week in and week out. I do like how right away the speaker blamed her male boss. That was heroic and explains more why the speaker isn't a C suite leader.

My ideal job would be to work for a Golden Retriever!

I don’t know if I can trust this Ted talk completely when she only has stories of her failures ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We're just animals. Survival of the fittest.

Unfortunately, I so can relate to these kinds of situations. I was pushed out of a number of jobs due to women’s malicious gossip, backstabbing and heavy bullying. There is nothing you can do to fix their insecurities and cattiness. Very sad reality, indeed. 😢

What was her point about mentioning the woman she hired was morbidly obese? It literally had absolutely nothing to do with her talk.

People, listen to your gut instincts, intuition, inner GPS.

Problem with appealing to those of the same confidence level: when you encounter someone with a massive ego when you’re relating to the mass of others with low self confidence (as in revealing your flaws etc) the person with the ego sees themselves as even better and now has something to attack.

I am not buying her story that she was fired without cause from a company she started by a man who was an "avoider." He would rather fire her than the "morbidly obese" woman who did public relations and called him constantly to complain about her job? Ok, sure. She lasted six weeks at the junior college and was fired from the health care company. Uh, could the problem possibly be her? Maybe she just sux as an employee.

That's why I'm happy in a malse dominant profession.