Rend Collective Singer ‘Trans Post’ Sparks Reaction From Christians 

Hey P&M Fam, we understand that this is a sensitive topic in our world right now. We want to be gentle and filled with the love of God in our approach. We appreciate you doing the same. Comment below and let us know what your thoughts are on Chris’ post and how we as Christians should respond to this situation :) Partner with us on Patreon!❤️ www.patreon.com/paulandmorganshow

Jesus was loving to people but He told them to "go and sin no more." He did not accept their sin. When we do not rebuke in love as we are called to, we leave people in their sin, rather than helping them to come up higher in their faith and walk with Jesus.

“History” wasn’t kind to Jesus. Lol. He was on the wrong side of history according to the Pharisees and they had him killed so 🤦🏼‍♂️

It’s not surprising when “Christian’s” turn progressive. Been there done that. It takes bold Christian’s and the power of God to overturn that hardened heart. I hope rend collective guy comes back to the biblical Christ, the biblical message that Jesus preached.

We are called to live in the world but not be of it. Christians are called to love different than the world. Yes!! Love you guys. Im new to your channel and I'm digging it! You guys are awesome. Thank you for what you to! God bless! 🙌

As Christian we have to call the sin for what it is. Is not hateful is biblical principles. Is better being right with God! Then with men. God bless!

You can still love someone and still say no I don’t agree with what someone wants you to agree with just because they feel something about a situation, don’t mean you have to feel the same just because they want you to, it don’t mean you hate someone just because you don’t agree

Speak "truth in love" is the foundation of what a Christ follower is called to live by. Our culture however has decided that truth and love cannot be synonymous. Culture says you either speak what is false in order to be loving and accepting, or you are considered hateful and intolerant if the truth is spoken. The truth is, this individual is a man by nature, by design, by intention. I'll acknowledge that he feels like a woman, and identifies with a woman, and wishes to be a woman. But to call him a woman, at my core is the opposite of love because it is not what is true. When we deeply love a person we want them to be freed by truth, not bound by falsehood. We are entering an era where truth cannot be spoken without offense, backlash, and being cut off. The truth is, that is how God's people have always been treated throughout history. We are just now finally getting a taste of what truth in a corrupt world looks and feels like. My prayer is that truth is never separated from love and vise versa

I’ve been listening to Rend Collective for like 10 years now.

Thank you for talking about this. Biblically we are to speak the TRUTH in LOVE. Most people nowadays want to take on the love part but not the truth. It's unfortunate that so many are compromising their beliefs to cater to the world. Thank you for standing up for TRUTH. ♥️

As a Christian I am totally okay with transgender people, I mean I am gay so I am a part of the lgbt community, but I am totally not okay with trans women who have gone through full male puberty competing in women’s sports, of course it isn’t fair it’s bs

I honestly think you can disagree with trans women being in sports. I understand it. I don't think we need to do what they have specifically asked us not to do tho, which is call them men. They are perfectly fine being called trans women and we by now know what a trans woman is. We don't need to always say "a trans woman is a MAN....." we all know how all that works right?

it’s not a decision tho like we don’t chose to be trans and why should she give up competing just because she’s transitioning? people forget that you can only compete in your own weight class so what’s the issue with trans people competing?

Itchy... 👂itchy... 👂itchy.... 👂 That time is now. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time is coming ⌚when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,

Also no offense to Paul and Morgan but I really feel like we take these things so lightly now. We might say they’re wrong but will still listen to the music or still like other things these “teachers” say. Y’all. Satan is INFILTRATING THE CHURCH! We have to stop being idle and passive. It’s not enough to dislike it we have to flee from this stuff as said in 1 Timothy. God didn’t say to dislike but very kindly he said to FLEE from it. We have to start gate keeping because there is no middle ground here and the more we act like there is, evil is coming into the church more and more. The lukewarm attitude is how we end up with gay churches and transgender drag queen pastors, it’s the frog in the pot analogy happening before our eyes.

When Carl put her arm around Paul 😂😂 I haven’t laughed this hard in a while!!!

All you have to do is SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE!!!! There is only ONE truth! God created MALE & FEMALE! Case closed!

God calls us to "offer our /your body as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God...only then will you know His perfect will for your life." In other words, our bodies belong to God and we are called to use them for His glory because life is a gift from the Father. Many people do not understand God's will for their life, even in terms of gender, because they have not offered their bodies as a living sacrifice to Him. They live for what they feel and want for themselves.

Hi guys, watched the whole video and was really concerned with how much misinformation there was in your understanding of the situation, and how it seems to have coloured your understanding of the issue. First, Lia Thomas didn't "immediately" transition and start competing in women's swimming, rather there is a 2 year gap between when she started hormone treatment and when she began competing in women's swimming. Paul also mentioned that "Even with hormone treatment, Lia would still have higher testosterone levels than a (cisgender) female" - this is false. Testosterone blockers are extremely effective and in fact most trans women have lower testosterone levels than the average cisgender woman. Second, she's only come first in one event as a woman, (NCAA Division 1 national championship, with a time still 9 seconds slower than the women's world record), alongside plenty of less impressive finishes all the way down to last place. She also certainly never broke any notable records (The records she holds are only those for the specific college, and for the events she holds the college record in for both before and after transition, her records post-transition are anywhere between 15 seconds slower for the 500yd Freestyle, to over a minute slower for the 1650yd freestyle.) Lastly, you have a long discussion about respecting people's fundamental beliefs, and that you can still give people love and respect even if you disagree with them. Personally, I would view any statement of 'love and respect' while refusing to use my proper name and pronouns with extreme suspicion. Would you feel loved and respected if someone couldn't be bothered to remember your name? If they looked at you every time you entered your church and told you "I do not believe you are who you say you are" every time they spoke to you? Because that is how deliberate refusal to properly gender someone feels. To tell a trans person that YOUR biblical truth says this isn't possible, you are telling the trans person that you know THEIR biblical truth better than they know it themselves, and that is the height of arrogance.

I agree with Morgan about musicians! I don’t think music is sinful, especially worship music because we see in scripture that God is pleased with musical worship but I definitely agree that musicians have specific temptations that can be really hard. I’m a musician and personally after I got saved I had to step away from music because it fed my emotions in a really ungodly way!

The saddest thing is that these "christian artists" are fast to defend those who go against the truth and God's word but stay quiet when their brothers and sisters in the Lord are being attacked with all kinds of hateful and evil acts and words.

I would encourage you guys to watch Colin miller's response about this. To me, he explains it extremely well from a Christian perspective.

Just my opinion, but I think there’s a difference between Jesus calling out sins, and us calling out sins. The Bible does say only God can judge. Jesus is God, not us, right?

I think trans people should be respected because it’s usually due to severe gender dysphoria, and it isn’t our lives etc. Trans people will always exist and using pronouns based on how they present to you is pretty easy. The sports topic does get complicated though. I don’t know how I feel about it. I think there needs to be more studies into the specifics of what gives someone an advantage in sport biologically. I don’t know what the solution is because a trans category likely wont happen.

Jesus once help a blind man to see but the blind man was born blind but now he can see don’t that messes with God’s creation? I think Jesus teach us to love and respect each and correcting or fixing something isn’t a sin.

It’s my personal conviction that calling people things that are not true is wrong. I feel like I’m giving into a lie that’s hurting them at the end of the day. I can’t love someone by giving into and promoting a lie. So it’s really sad to see him not understand where I’m coming from and my conviction on this issue. I can’t lie. I can’t promote the illusion the person is in. That’s against my beliefs. I don’t like that I feel this conviction especially since I have an issue of wanting everyone to like me and I’m a people pleaser. But as a Christian I know I can’t always do that. Jesus didn’t accept peoples sins. Neither can I

Can you guys please please turn up the volume or sit closer to the mic or get a better microphone -- and enable the CC function so that I can read what y'all are saying? I have to strain to hear you, it may be my laptop but I don't have this problem on other channels. Love your videos and yes, Morgan tell us what you eat in a day -- never boring!

Jesus loves you and died so you can have eternal life. Repent and turn to Him because He is coming soon! He loves you!

If we really want to be fair! Trans men/women should compete with there fellow trans counterparts. Progressivism wont stop at this. People will literally start fighting for rights to marry plants or animals, if we are not careful.

I think that Rend Collective played at my home Church. I have heard the songs that Paul has sung on the radio before. I think that Casting Crowns has more theologically sound songs than most Christian groups now a days (aside from Skillet). Their newer songs, "Scars In Heaven", Anything But Easy" and "2nd Opinions" have really good messages that the Church Needs to Listen to today. Although, I think that they are touring with Hillsong which concerns me. Personally, I think that when we call a "trans female" a female, we violate 1 Corinthians 13:6 "it does Not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the Truth". I believe that going along with a lie like calling people whatever pronoun they want to be called even if they were Not created by God to be that gender is actually unloving according to God's definition of love in the Bible. However, I have worked with a female who was transitioning to a male underneath bosses that are liberal. I tried to avoid using pronouns but have found that to be nearly impossible and felt stuck between a rock and hard place.

Definitely have heard of them. We still sing Build your Kingdom in our house church

I think I agree with the principle of that guys post. If I’m trying to reach someone and teach them about Christ if what pronouns I call them, or what name I call them I going to be a snare at allowing them to hear the gospel then I’m going to use their preferred pronouns. I think it shows I respect them where they are and will help them be open to hearing what I have to say. I always heard the saying “We catch the fish, Jesus Cleans them up” if they truly repent God is going to bring them to an understanding that his design for who they are is better than what they created for themselves. Understanding that many transgender people experience a deep self hatred than manifests in trying to change their body until they feel better I think helps us have more compassion on what they are going through. If they are receptive to the gospel God will change their hearts and lead them back to his design for his creation.

Stop calling Leah Thomas a "she" please

If Jesus’ church doesn’t call out sin and error, who will?

For me it goes back to fearing God over fearing man. Standing our ground as Christ followers is more important than conforming to what the world wants of us! And of course it’s all rooted in love (the love of God) which like u all said, many won’t understand.

This topic brings up another interesting point in my mind. I have a cousin who is transitioning, they are fifteen and just started recently, so for the past at least fourteen years I have known them one way and now they want to be considered something different. But in referring to memories of them before they transition, what pronounce or name do we even use, and with this swimmer, are those records still considered theirs or is it like its a completely different person now and the male version of the person is essentially dead for all intense and purposes, and we only talk about any new records they make or is everything lumped together and counted as one

Hi guys, I really appreciate this honest dialogue about the situation. I have been following Chris Llewellyn for a while, and his input is generally really good and really well-worded and biblically sound. When I saw this thread on his stories, it definitely came across as something well-intentioned, but written in frustration, which maybe wasn't the best choice on Chris' part. However, I do have to disagree slightly with something you said, Morgan (around 30:00). You said that this "vein" of Christianity is perhaps starting to look at the world and allowing it to infiltrate their views rather than going to scripture, prayer, other christian mentors, etc. This is definitely true in some cases, but from my experience, that is not at all what I have seen. The people in this "vein", which I take to mean the progressive / deconstructing / social justice Christian, honestly do spend so much time before the throne and in the word and having discussions with other believers about hard topics. I know people who never spent more time in prayer or in the word than they do now the they are "deconstructing" a lot of what they have been taught, and seeking truth earnestly from the Lord. Because of the hurt they see and have experienced, they are wrestling with God about some things (which we all do and should be doing at various points in our life). I do agree that Chris had strong and somewhat strange reaction to this particular topic, but he is a sincere, loyal, inquisitive, and emotionally intelligent follower of Christ, who's perspective and words have touched and continue to touch people deeply in the name of Christ. So, I definitely don't think this particular comment on this situation (to which he said nothing about his views on trans people in sports or even trans people in general. He really just commented on his opinion about calling people by names / labels that they would prefer not to be called by) should lead to any sort of conclusion that he has gone off the deep end or is falling towards the ways of the world. I hope this comment came across as was intended, which was just to give a bit of my perspective and a bit of defence for Chris since I have been following him online for quite a few years, and I read what he writes. Thanks again for the conversation!

For what it’s worth, what do we really know about the theology of all the “Christian” artists out there? I am selective about what music I listen to, and I don’t purchase anyone’s music. I just love certain songs regardless of who sings them, and let the Holy Spirit 🕊️ work on people’s hearts. Also, I think the wiser thing to do is contact these people (in this case Chris) to discuss these concerns with them directly.

I appreciate you guys so much. This video is on a hard subject. As one of the people who is in the camp of “I can’t call this biological man a woman” I want to submit that it’s possible to hold that conviction AND not be “hateful” per Chris’ words. My example would be simply not using pronouns. The problem with just calling a trans person by their God given pronoun is no matter your intent it will most likely (I can’t be definitive because if Gods in the conversation anything is possible) be received as hate. Though I don’t disagree with the original meme- I can very easily see how it could be interpreted as hateful. It’s hard because we can’t and shouldn’t cave or conform to society, but I think there is a Christian approach in not even addressing it. Not giving the “thing” they’ve made their identity about the light of day. At the same time approaching them as a loved child of God.

I don't think necessarily all Christian musicians are in their feelings. If they are firmly rooted in the Word they will not be pulled astray. But I did notice a lot of "Christian bands" being pulled away from orthodox beliefs. It is important for everyone who is doing ministry to be in Scripture and singing scripture. Thankfully there are people out there doing that like Shane and Shane or Jonathan Ogden.

"She"?? Love rejoices in the truth...

Before Maverick City they were my favorite band. My family hated how much I listened to their songs. But I loved their style of music with the great unique lyrics

As someone deeply connected to those in the trans community I find it hard to agree or disagree with y'all on this topic. I really appreciated the discussion afterwards especially, getting a chance to discuss with people with all different viewpoints is such a blessing. I think as long as we come at this topic with discernment and compassion, we will be better off than coming towards it with anger, and you both did a good job of that today! Thank you, and love you both!

Good job Morgan. God does not love the sin. And a Christian that shows love, does not have to love or accept the sin in any way. There is the world's love, and there is genuine Christian love.

Staying out of the drama this time bc I just don't feel like being hated on for being one side or the other today hah, but I had to comment to say Paul low key has a really nice voice haha Ps I thought you guys approached this topic well. Very respectful to the other side

Okay but WILD because I went to school with Matt and Abby (in the Theatre and Dance department) and I knew they had a channel but I had no idea how big they had gotten until you guys mentioned them. 😂 That's super cool! I met my boyfriend of 3 years now in a class I also had with Matt, and we have plans to get engaged soon. I guess Missouri State is a good place for love!

The guy from Rend needs to get in the Word. It is not hateful to tell the truth. It is hateful to let people think they can dwell in sin and there will be no consequences. What do I care about history being kind to me? I care about God and His commands and how He feels about me. I have sinned many times in my life, even when I was a Christian. A few times people have pointed out my sins, but mostly people let me sin and did not say anything. I pulled myself out of sinful things because the Holy Spirit would convict me, and I would finally listen. But I wonder if I would have stopped sinning sooner had someone, a brother or sister in Christ held a mirror up to me, or told me I needed to stop, and reminded me about the consequences that would undoubtedly come if I continued to stay on that path. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Lia Thomas needs to be told the truth, and Lia Thomas needs Jesus and prayer. But it sounds like the guy from Rend Collective also needs to be told the truth, and that he needs prayer, and to be convicted by the Holy Spirit.

I thank you Paul and Morgan for your thoughts as I agree with you guys. I do think that Christians do borrow the world's definition of love to try and justify putting up with or accepting things that we should not all under the guise of loving you neighbors remember love rejoices on the truth. We are called to love everyone not accept what everyone does.

So Chris said this "However you feel about the implications for sports (a wider conversation for sure) Calling a trans woman a man is hateful. Unkind. Don't participate in this kind of speech. History won't be kind to you." Actually Chris, history won't do a thing because it has no power. God is The One Who controls History and He will be pleased with someone calling a gender according to His design. Not playing to the demonic delusions of men and trying to pander to evil. I'll participate in the truth rather than in lies.

I believe Chris had good intention. His response seemed so prideful and major cause for concern, as someone who the lord has trusted with much. There is no love in deception, you can love while being truthful. In an extreme sense, by rebuking Kris, he is essentially exalting the works of darkness/the flesh over light. In an attempt to sound "fair" "correct" "just" as the world would have it. As Morgan always says, who cares what the world thinks! We want to please the father. This stance of "Progressive" Christianity is basically conforming to the increasingly deprave patterns of the world and encouraging not checking ourselves in the mirror of the WORD.

So the question is that if we’re going to compare athlete’s bodies what is the difference between the advantages that Lia has and the advantages that Katie Ledecky has? They’re comparable in size/ build and Katie is a cisgender women. If we’re going to compare bodies then you have to look at everyone. Paul mentioned Michael Phelps who absolutely dominated because of his size and advantages that come with that. Lia took off 2 years to transition and get to a place where she could be within the NCAA guidelines for competing as a women. During that time she had to work harder than she’s ever worked practicing and her times still suffered. I think comparing athletes bodies is a never ending cycle. Not to mention that she didn’t go from ranking 400 in mens to number one in womens over night, she spent 2 years working. And she only ranked 1st in one event. She ranked 5th and 8th in other events she competed. She’s not unbeatable. She’s an amazing athlete.

Y'all, I just can't picture Jesus calling a man who presents as a "woman" a "she". I just don't see that happening. Jesus was never one to forfeit truth to submit to the feelings of unbelievers. Not at all. He was gentle. But he isn't a liar. I don't think Chris's post is something I would stop listening to Rend b/c of, but I'm not uber surprised by it either. I like their music, but y'all, I've been following CCM since 1999 lol and I followed E'RYBODY'S instagram (I'm no longer on IG haha.). I followed Rend for a bit (not Chris's account, the band's), and I actually unfollowed when THEY (I would assume Chris) said something unkind (but not political) that honestly just hit me and hurt me, even though it wasn't personal. I didn't talk about it or anything, but because it hurt me on a core level, I unfollowed them. Just didn't wanna anymore. :) That being said, here he is telling others how to be kind when I have never considered them particularly "kind" people. Fun? Yes. Talented? Very much so. A good time at a concert, for sure. But they've never struck me as "kind." It seems like the type of thing where you would post a black square to "show" kindness but not actually care about the young black children being killed during riots or being told by their culture that working hard in school, doing well in math, etc. is "acting white." It's shallow. Makes him feel moral, but not convincing. Pray about it, Chris! That's all I can say. 👍 Have a good day yo. :)

I think the majority of Chris post was good. We as human beings and Christian’s should be respecting others. Even if you don’t agree with someone’s beliefs or what have you, we still need to be respecting each other. There’s nothing wrong with respecting someone’s pronouns or just a person in general. It shows more hate to not respect someone than to respect them and not agree with their beliefs. I think sometimes we all forget that not everyone has the same beliefs as you, or lives the way you do. You may not understand how someone lives the way they do/ has different beliefs and they probably don’t understand you. But we can still respect and love each other. It’s very possible to love someone and not agree with them lol.

Paul and Morgan, I’ve been watching you guys since I was a junior in HS (now 22). I just wanted to say that it’s really cool to think about how God has used your unique personalities to minister to me in ways I wasn’t evening aware of over the years! You guys have just always been super eccentric and artsy and that has always spoken to my heart, even before I really came to know the Lord. Love y’all!🙌🏼

Chris Llewellyn is simply advocating for respect. He is calling for Christians to love and respect others. You literally can just call people what they're asking to be called. It doesn't hurt you to refer to someone as how they identify. It DOES hurt THEM when you disregard their request. I would love to know what other ways you propose we can show that we love them other than simply respecting their request to be called by the gender they identify with? Respecting their request to be called by their preferred pronouns or chosen name seems like the EASIEST way as a Christian to show somebody the love of Christ. Lia Thomas (that we know of) is not a Christian. You have to stop withholding respect and kindness from unbelievers until they conform to your idea of being "worthy" of respect because they fit into your convictions and beliefs. People deserve your respect and kindness regardless of their beliefs. You are not going to open her eyes or open her heart by disrespecting her..... Lastly, the "other vein" of Christians (super disrespectful btw) are not looking at the world to find our view of God's love. We are looking at how the way we conduct ourselves as Christ lovers is received by un-believers. If people are not feeling loved by the way we respond or speak to them, then we have to change our approach to ensure they are ACTUALLY feeling the love of the Lord through us.

It is not loving to call someone's delusion "choice". It is not loving to accept and support something that is untrue for the sake of feelings. The loving thing is to speak the truth to everyone. They have the right to accept or reject that truth.

Lol 😂 I’ve seen them live before and loved them. But I am so disappointed in seeing their stance.

What one generation permits, the next generation accepts, the next generation promotes.

I'll be happy to be on the wrong side of history so long as I'm on the right side of Christ. It's a good thing that the view of history towards us isn't what we live for, but rather the glory of Christ.

Would it not be he, and not she? Because he is not a “she”

There is no SHE... LIA AN ADULT HUMAN MALE or Man

I've got a novel idea for Christians... mind your own business. If it doesn't concern you, if it's not something you can help an injustice with, butt out. Personal liberty and happiness doesn't end where you're religion begins, and vice versa for that

I feel very very conflicted on this topic. My view is I support the trans community, but at the same time I don’t like denying biology. Gender and sex are two different things. I’m all for identifying how you want to be, but regardless you can’t deny or change your biological sex. I feel like it shouldn’t be something to ashamed of or embarrassed about. However, I feel some may want to change their sex because they may feel that their gender identity isn’t valid because their biological sex says otherwise. And that shouldn’t happen. You should be able to find their identity valid regardless of their sex. For example, if you are born biologically a male then yes, you are male no matter what, but if you wish to identify as a woman then fine. You will be a woman in my eyes and I will use the pronouns you wish to use,however I know biologically you are a male. I don’t want to say this as me denying someone’s identity. If I were a transman, I personally wouldn’t go and change my drivers license from F to M because biologically it is not true. I will always be a female, but gender identity doesn’t mean I’m a woman. I hope this makes sense. I truly am conflicted on this topic. Just because you are a male doesn’t mean you are man or just because you are female that makes you woman. Again, gender identity vs biological sex are two entirely different things. This is my take on it. At the end of the day, the big core issue here is biology. And when it comes to sports as much as I love and support the trans community…I really really am not sure how I feel about it. I can the unfairness but at the same time I hate excluding them. I wish there another alternative to help this. Biologically, males are stronger that is a fact I can’t deny even though I am an avid LGBTQ advocate.

I feel like you guys are becoming more reasonable.. like actually weighing things up. I think I want to be reasonable but still rejoice with the truth. Like my prayer break my heart for what breaks yours. what is going on in someone's heart whete thete is such deep confusion? but I don't want to pitty them because I've had my own confusions. so who am I to judge in a holier then thou way. but I still stand by the truth. But idk navigating standing I truth and loving and respecting them just as I want then to treat me. But not bowing against my conviction.. which is my boundaries.. which also needs to be respected.. I love that your friends with Jaquiline. I feel like God's really using that relationship to shape you into who he's making you. I really see a daughter of the Lord in her Eben if she dosent see it yet. haha.

I think the singer either lacks discernment or courage to take a stand for truth. I think its tough for Christians these days but going to have to have courage.

God doesn’t want us to recognize the delusions and deceit that comes from the lawless one, bc the devil can only deal in confusion, as he works to mock God’s design and works to attack God’s order and God’s creation which the devil loathes. You cannot call a man a woman and a woman a man bc that is apart of the lawless one’s treachery and deceit.

YES!! I know Rend Collective and I know both of the songs you sang, Paul!

Morgan, you’re not fiery! You speak the truth, which is often hard to swallow.👍😊

Bible says love the sinner, hate the sin. Soooo

Romans Chapter 1 speaks on this vs 20-the last verse

We all have sinned and fell short of the glory to God. The problem is, that God is holy and doesn’t live with sin. So we all deserve to go to hell, but Jesus paid the price so you don’t have to. All you have to do is confess Jesus as your savior and repent (turn from all sin) and you’ll bs forgiven and on the way to heaven.

I’m not even sure it’s a conviction thing if you call them what they’re not your lying to them. And all the “he went through puberty so it doesn’t count” will do is make them push this more on the children which they already do all the time.

What matters is how God is going to respond to you, not 'History.'

God doesn't make mistakes. And when God creates someone a male- I believe it's wrong to call him a 'she', regardless of what kind of delusion he's fallen into. We need to be loving to the person, but not speaking and going along with falsehoods.

I see the bump!!!! 💙💙

Why some engineer can't be good Christian? Going to church every day won't make someone Christian automatically.

You speak as if you care at all about the Trans community, you speak as if you care about all of the hardships that this group of people have gone through, all the while continuing(and have done multiple times) to refer to Lia Thomas as "him" and "he", which is false and disrespectful and disgusting on so many levels. This is just thinly veiled transphobia. If you both weren't transphobic, you wouldn't have made this video in the first place expressing your irrelevant opinions on how this completely valid woman is "threatening sports". She isn't. There shouldn't be a whole other faction made in sports singling out transgender people just because people like you find it offensive. That's all this society needs. More singling people out that are literally just trying to exist. Transgender people don't have to prove anything to you, all they want is a spot at the table. The world doesn't need more hate. Just let people live and identify how they want. It's people like you that I will never understand.

Why hasn’t a music label signed Paul yet?! 😂 my lighthouse 🎵 🎶

It's personally very disappointing to me that Chris from Rent Collective has taken the position that he has taken on this issue.

Go ahead and block rendco kids on all your platforms. They have a rainbow background that'll show up on your smart TV. They're pretty in your face I guess.

agree with you guys 100%, thank you for discussing such topics and speaking the truth ❤️🤗

I've heard the name, but don't know any of their songs.

Women definitely can beat any transwomen and even men on competitions. Testosterone doesn't always make a person strong

The Proverbs begin with saying the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord (not man). So many “Christians” fear man more than the Lord and are not reading their Bibles, therefore, they are so easily swayed away from what Scripture is clear about regarding worldly topics and blame it on being complicated or nuanced. When I read passages like Psalm 139:13-14, it is clear that God Himself made each of us “fearfully and wonderfully” and Genesis 1:27 says “male and female He created them”. Who are we to say He made a mistake and try to change that or go along with a lie when someone else, who is deceived, is attempting to change God’s creation. In most cases, those who are in the “progressive Christianity” camp simply want to define their own sexual/identity ethics, and it often leads to a pathway out of the faith altogether because they want to crown themselves as king instead of fearing the one true King. Progressive Christians often try to use crafty arguments to strong-arm evangelical Christians into going along with a lie from our culture that says to be loving to someone is to do what a person perceives as loving (even if they are totally deceived and living against God’s order and commands), yet the Bible teaches that if you love God, you will obey Him not man. In a case like this, Chris is trying to persuade Christians that it’s more loving to go along with the lie of someone who is deceived and not follow what’s found in God’s Word. The Scripture is clear and either Chris doesn’t know Scripture or he’s slipping into fear of man more than fear of God or worse yet, he’s starting to slip into the lies and deceptions of “progressive Christians”. We are to speak the Truth in love and with kindness, of course, but we don’t ignore the Truth and air on the side of simply appearing supportive of someone in sin by saying “it’s complex” or misusing Scripture that’s not relevant at all (the Good Samaritan is not at all like this situation) to justify our support. His rhetoric is compromising and is also misleading others who may not yet be strong in their faith. The pastor and elders in his church should be sharing with him where both of these are warned against in Scripture before he keeps sliding down this slippery slope he’s on.

First of I wanna say I think it’s important to respect trans people and use their preferred pronoun, it’s such an easy thing to do and it’s the right thing to do imo to show respect and be kind. I’m not sure how I feel about trans people in sports, it’s feels unfair yes, but they have every right to compete like everyone else, maybe if they competed in their own “category” like women, men, trans but I don’t know. It’s a complicated question.

All the comments talking about living "biblically" are just wrong. If ur meaning is to do or not do what the Bible says, then u should marry ur brother's wife, when ur brother dies. You should stone adulterers. You can have sex before u r married as the Bible doesn't say anything about that. You should have slaves bc as long as u treat them "well" according the Bible, it's fine. Do u also not murder simply bc the Bible said so? I am really glad the Bible says do not murder or I guess u would all be going around murdering people. As something might be similar, it does not mean the same thing. Raper and sex are completely different. Just bc the Bible does say something, doesn't mean we have to do them. Just bc the Bible doesnt say something, doesn't mean we shouldn't do them. We have to respect the distance in time and culture of someone describing something 2 thousand years ago. This is respecting the Bible. What the Bible talks about and how we understand lgbtq today is completely different. There is a lot of interpretation going on. Making rules and limitations that aren't actually "of God" is just as wrong as ignoring what actually is something should follow. This is the command to not use God's namein vein. It not about saying "oh my god" or swearing. Jesus's problem with the Pharisee was this. They made up rules above rules for power and control. The sabbath was made for man not man for sabbath. Paul came to understand this as he concluded that circumcision is also not a requirement. We have to read the Bible literately. The English language didn't even have the word "homosexually" until the 1970s. Think about that. This entire hoopla about lgbtq people are a modern reaction to new scientific understanding. You cant expect the Bible to carry theological and moral issues of something that wasn't an issue back then. You cant look in the Bible for answers about using an atomic bomb. It may guide u but it just won't give u definitive answers, there needs to be a lot of interpretation and using modern understanding. Same with guns and even abortion. "You are fearfully and wonderfully made" is a far cry from "abortion is murder..." "Do not murder" is a far cry from dropping a bomb to stop a war. People in biblical times thought that women's period was due to sin. They thought that reproduction happened only bc of the male. While the authors were "inspired" to write the scriptures, they don't know everything, they still limited by their understanding of God and the world around them. They did the best they could, some of it is inpired, some of it, not so much. The canonization process of the Bible, putting the book together was done by debate. People debated what is inspiring and what is not. The book we have are the ones that made it. They weren't all of it, they weren't drop down from heaven, they were discussed and debated. It's the sausage making process. Everyone interprets using their own cultural persepctive and biases. Even those who were part of the canonization process were limited. No one read and follows the Bible competely literally ie, lives "biblically." The Bible is inspired, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it is perfect, or that it ignores all the flaws and limitation of humans. It's like Jesus being human and God. Sometimes, people love talking about Jesus as God that they overstep forgetting the limitation of Jesus being human. It's ironic that the Bible says Jesus is the "word". The guy's comment that the rend collective guy, calling his view hate, is not respect his point view is a bit silly. He is viewing rend colective's opinion in his own perspective, if that makes any sense. Sure, if u think it is a conviction bc u feel u have to follow the Bible the way u read it, okay, calling it hate is not respectful. But imagine for a moment that you believe being trans is like being left handed or asian, that the Bible doesnt say that, and someone calls that a sin. That is hate. Would he be like this if rend collective said that someone saying being asian is a sin, is hate? Of course not. The most logical response, as someone who disagrees, should be, "I can see, how according to him, what I believe could sound like hate." As someone who is a progressive christian, who used to be conservative, conservative act like the progressive view is devoid of any biblical argument or that its all about feelings. I was convinced biblicall first as someone who was conservative. I was interpreting the Bible inconsistently, giving standrds to progressives that I didnt event meet.

I want to grow up to be like you guys. It is not fair AT ALL for women to have to compare to a male, not hate to woman but most men are biologically more muscular. It is how God made men and woman, no surgery can change that. I also can't believe what Chris from Rend Collective said, that he basically wanted to please the world. I like their songs and have heard them on K-love before, what is wrong with our world honestly.

So good! 😊 And I just wanted to add on something to what that one person in the chat who asked why homosexuality/transgenderism is worse than any other sin!! 🤍 And I loved your answers, Paul and Morgan, how we all have different tendencies towards different sins! It’s so interesting living in a family of boys because we can see what sins men struggle with more and then what girls struggle with more! There are definitely some mutual things, but some that are completely opposite! We all need to constantly keep going back to God to help us repent and turn away! 😊

Great video guys! Well said! Here's some of my thoughts, (this is long🙈😊, you don't have to read all of this😄😉) I totally understand not wanting to purposely call someone male (if they're trying to "transition" to female) to their face or in the news, etc. because that would be an insult to them and we should try to live peaceably as possible with everyone. However, if you are writing a news article or talking to the person personally, then I personally might avoid using pronouns altogether. I'd never consciously call a man a she or vise versa. To me, it gives that person and other on-lookers the wrong idea that I actually affirm or agree with that. There's that saying "facts don't care about your feelings". I would say, of course, care about people's feelings, but more importantly, the loving thing to do is push them to the truth in a loving sensitive way. This is extreme, but what if someone didn't want to confront a sinner in their sins with the redeeming gift of the gospel, because it would be offensive to them. The gospel is offensive. And there's a good way to preach the gospel: with love and truth. And maybe not so great ways: with condemnation and no grace. I'm not trying to purposefully insult or hurt anyone, of course. They're either deceived/brainwashed and convinced that this is totally normal or possible, or mentally unstable to think that they could actually become the opposite gender if they so wish to. Either way, they need help, truth and grace. It's just not true, nor is it good. There's definitely time to have compassion for these people. They need to be helped, not pampered or patronized. We are to speak the truth in love, and I think we do a disservice to leave "truth" or "love" out of that verse. I don't have to go around pointing out people's sins all the time, but I don't have to overlook/pretend they're not sinning either. I think that would be misleading them. Also, to the point that some people make, that "it doesn't effect you, why do you care?" For one thing, if someone tries to force someone else to call them by a specific pronoun, it is effecting them. If they want to be a recluse and live in solitude and never come in contact with the public, then that might not effect anyone but that one person. But even then, I still care about that person! This is not right and good for them. Ultimately, we can't change a person and it's their decision. But it is a sin in God's eyes and that sin separates them from God. They need the gospel and a confronting voice directing them back to the truth. And one more thing: You don't need to go and "correct" your sins in order to be saved, but if you are saved then you do need to stop sinning. We're all going to keep sinning after being saved, but we should always repent and run from sin. We need to try to love what God loves and hate what He hates.💙💙

Can’t these opinions be kept personal and to yourself? What is the point of sharing? Do you think transgender people who watch this will feel unconditional love? Sure truth is important but I think it’s important to evaluate what we are meant to exude to the overall public vs. what should be left to personal conversation or even entrusted to the Holy Spirit to work out.

I am just seeing this not sure how I came across it. But in the past couple years my over 50 brother has decided to become female. Obviously there's something that had been going on his entire life that we didn't see. Yes we had a somewhat traumatic childhood not good situations not good parenting drug addicted alcoholic mother and absent father for most of our lives. Foster care that was only supposed to be a year or so turned in to almost 8 years. I love my brother but that's what he is my brother and I try to avoid insulting him so I just tried to avoid any pronouns or calling him by his new name. Would that being said never did I think it was helpful to him to agree with him that he thinks he really is a woman in a man's body. Agreeing with him to me is harmful disagreeing with him is not helpful. I look at it as would you agree with an anorexic that they are fat? Because that's what an anorexic identifies as being fat and they clearly are not. It's working through the issues and trying to figure out what got them there. Sorry for the long comment but I agree that it is our job to still show love but we can do that while also speaking truth.

Great conversation! 🤍

Great topic! I agree a lot of Christians could use some thoughtful prayer and self reflection regarding this topic. I see some Christians who need to be lovingly humbled. These are still images bearers of God. At the same time, this does not mean we sacrifice biblical objective truth. Many members of the trans community are victims of abuse and are damaged people. This is a mental illness, and pretending that their delusion is truth is NOT loving. We have to be willing to speak biblical truth and submit ourselves to the word of God, his moral law and regain a healthy fear of God over a fear of man.

Paul and Morgan, I do appreciate your perspective and that you guys are both enough to talk about these things openly as the world needs it. However, I do believe in John 3:16, that He loved the World so much that He sent His son on the cross to die their death so that they wouldn’t have to. and while we were STILL sinners Christ died for us and Christ died for the ungodly. when The OT and NT says HATE and DETESTABLE, it does often say these THINGS are detestable to God. God hates SIN, but He has Grace for the remnant, the ones that Turn FROM their SIN itself and turn towards Him. I don’t know if that answers that question and I could be wrong so please rebuke me if I am as I need it ❤️ Love y’all!

I agree with Carl that just because He loves us does not mean hea approves of everyone. If my child did something wrong I love them but they might be grounded because I don't approve,

Guys!! I’m not shocked because I follow his wife on Instagram and she’s made some interesting reels on modesty. I started to get the feeling that they had progressive Christianity beliefs. Very interesting.

I understand what you are saying about “sin no more” but are we the judge of people? What is our job and does condemning being transgender align with what we are meant to do? It just seems like you’ve taken it upon yourself to “call everyone out..” that’s the overall vibe I get. Maybe that’s not your heart’s intent but that is how these videos come across to many people. Whether or not this is your intent, if you don’t want this to be how these videos are received, I think reevaluating how you communicate may be important.

Hi! You said about no longer a Bible-believing category, who did you mean? And my english not so good I understand not all, you mentioned Kevin Max, what you say about him? I love DC Talk and Kelvin’s music thats why I’m curious.

Guys for real it's okay to disagree with trans women in sports, doesn't mean we can't still just call them she/her if that's what they prefer even tho we know they are biologically male

Love this video, but I'm a little confused by why Paul is calling Thomas a male and then using female pronouns. Seems to kinda undermine the point you're making