The great central station and line was closed down in 1970. There are feasibility studies looking at reopening the Northern section to Stocksbridge and the Southern section to Barrow hill Chesterfield.
The Beeching report actually recommended closing the the Hope valley line. But the government at the time decided the Woodhead route should close because it would need more investment to keep open. Richard Beeching was a chemist and was just a puppet for Earnest Marples and his dodgy mates and inappropriate government contracts. Very interesting vid thank you.
Thanks for the info, I was hoping people with more historical facts would back up my beliefs. Thatcher was a Chemist who had no idea that you needed a balanced economy.
@@timawells Richard Beeching was not an economist; that's for sure. For he missed the obvious fact that when people used loss-making branch lines, they were on their way to join profitable expresses. Duh.
Dodgy Ern. When he opened a motorway, (for some reason) there was a sign in the background reading 'Marples Construction', which I thought an amazing coincidence. Unbelievable really.
The Beeching scandal of the 1960s was exactly that - a huge scandal. If we still had 90% of what was here in 1915 this country would have the best railway system in the world.
Many thanks for the video. It brought back lots of memories. I used the station many times in my teens. A football special ran from Retford to Wadsley Bridge for all Wednesday's home games in the late 50's early 60's. I also used the station to go to Manchester, through the Woodhead Tunnel. That journey took in spectacular views, and was very quick compared to today's journey times. What a waste. HS2 could have used the route and saved millions!
My dad goes on about the closure of Wadsley bridge as he used it for the match. Hopefully I will go back and capture some of the area around the station today, I was ill last Saturday and awful weather. Been to Manchester once on the train to watch Wednesday at Old Trafford, what a nightmare journey.
This line still has potential. Trains can run from Chesterfield via Barrow Hill and Victoria to Stocksbridge (ideally to build new platform on old freight line, closer to town) With extra platform close to Killamarsh/Halfway as well. This will be nice addon to Sheffield transport network. Maybe in future, missing link to Penistone can be rebuild. But this will be more expesive.
When the LNER acquired the Great Central route they had the sense to keep it as a decent secondary route and used it well for freight. The Midland hated it and when BR regionalisation came in it was transferred to the Midland who ran it down and were only too glad to see its extensive viaducts and bridges blown up
Nothing was mothballed because Marples the Transport Minister at the time who employed Beeching owned a road laying business and had many government contracts!
I had heard of Marples but didn't know his name, vested interests as I thought. Wasn't it the Labour government who pushed through the Beeching report?
@@timawells Worth reading if you can find it - a Heinmann Educational book "The Nationalised Transport Industries" ( they did one on Energy Industries too )
@highpath4776 problem with the incoming Labour government was that the contracts for the closures had been drawn up for alot of lines. Also the country was broke, 1 of the reasons for joining the EEC(now EU). The cost to change decisions was too expensive. Just look at the spiralling costs of HS2 as the Tories have changed the plans constantly since 2010 employing more consultants etc etc. Beeching gets the blame to cover for the Tories. The modernisation plan of BR of the fifties was ripped up. Locos were built and put into storage and never used as the lines that they were intended for closed.
I agree about your comment about mothballed lines. The trouble with the Beeching closures was that lines were closed using 'a snap shot in time' of there use and gave no thought to possible future needs. Utter madness!
The Swedes even mothballed their steam locos as a strategic review, I remember, working in Shepton Mallet, and crossing the closed GW line from Witham to Yatton, seeing some goon's new house bang on the trackbed just to the side of where the crossing gates had been.
AIRC, Beeching's Report was based on just *ONE DAY* of March 1963. Looking at just that one day alone, you cannot say that this is a good indication of how well or how poorly all lines are doing. Either way, Beeching couldn't have cared less. He was in the payola of Marples, who we all know was as corrupt as the day is long. Putting motorways over or through existing rail alignments and putting up signs saying "Construction by Marples Construction" just proves this. Marples ideas spread to other countries, such as Australia, where in the 60s and 70s railways were closed and roads built in their place. It was all about money!!!
The circus came to town one day as a kid back in the 60s Elephants and a host of other circus paraphernalia were unloaded at Victoria and paraded through town.
Your points are very accurate. Investment: In 1966, Labour spent 10 pounds on the roads against one on the railways despite the monumental road death rate (7000+) back then. From this investment, the road freight lobby took its cue for juggernaut domination, and rail freight - seriously underdeveloped and inefficient - died. Lorry tonnage/size has grown enormously since, with results to be seen everywhere. No calculation dealt with property damage and heavy weights, or increased accident rates. Houses fell down, and people were killed; but new roads helped election success in those days.
I remember the mania of motorway building in the early 1970s. I look at the hysteria from Nimbys now at evrything the HS2 does in its ever-being-forshortened- construction. I guess, if the government built a motorway through Woodhead, there would be limitless money available and no protests allowed.
@@johnjephcote7636 Yes, undoubtedly. Despite the war on CO2, new road schemes are still going ahead willy nilly., and the Freight Transport Association wins every battle for ever-heavier lorries. I too remember the mania (I drove lorries in 1972), and I was horrified by the destruction of the countryside and day to day living for thousands of people.
Both Victoria and Midland had roofs, but they were both removed. The line was closed to passengers in 1970. Coal trains continued to use it till the late 1980's. But when the power stations switched away from coal that was it. The Class 76 electric locos used the 1,500 DC system not the modern 25KV system, by the time of closure it would have need to have been replaced. It would be much easier to have a Supertram system linking them all in and since the depot for the current tram system runs right next to the old line, it could feed into the current network, thus reducing the cost of extra trains. Victoria station could be linked back to the wicker and the old steps and lift rebuilt for a smaller modern station, since the hotel extended onto the grounds of the original station.
Back in 1979, I went on a special that started at Manchester Piccadilly with a pair of class 76s which ran via the Woodhead line to Sheffield Victoria, which was a derelict station then. There it reversed with the preserved steam locomotive “Clan Line” at the other end. Then it travelled via Sheffield Midland then the Hope Valley route across to Cheshire.
I can't find any pictures of the Midland with a decent roof. Super tram would be great for Stocksbridge, but it needs trains for Manchester if the Woodhead is ever opened again.
I can still not understand why the late 1950s electrified Woodhead route, with new tunnel was closed. Trans-Pennine routes are dire now. The argument that dc catenary could not be altered to the lighter ac in the tunnel was crazy. I was last through behind the electric loco 'Tommy' which was not preserved.
How long is the journey via the Hope Valley to Manchester versus the Woodhead line before closure. I have done Manchester once on the train never again.
It was not crazy at the time. More clearance above the train is required for 25 kV electrification and the Woodhead tunnels just did not have the height. I think there were suggestions about removing a layer of tunnel lining to provide height but that was considered structurally dangerous and in addition all the lineside structures and gantries would have had to be raised. Effectively a whole new construction activity. Modern 25 KV equipment (rigid contact rail and glass fibre insulators) may have allowed the tunnels to be modified but the tunnels are now owned by National Grid, who have filled them with high voltage national grid transmission cables.
Needs to happen. All direct trains to Manchester should leave here. Would relieve some of the traffic on line. The money spent on railways...this would not cost huge amounts.
I remember Sheffield Victoria very well when I was a lot younger, I went on the trains from there as well as train spotting from Bernards Road you could see the trains coming in, its a shame the station closed and would love to see it re-open, I always remember a train journey from there in 1961 I was 13 and went with a group of Marine Cadets that went to Deal and we went up the steps at Wicker Arches ... there was a lot of plans over on the manchester side to get the line re-opened about 20 years ago but nothing happened also the Manchester side would need a lot of work to get tracks down again ... I lived in Sheffield from 1947 till 1977 and I now live in Bolton ...
Funny thing is Beeching didn't close the GCR, it was a variety of local authorities, especially Nottingham Victoria which was owned and closed by Nottinghamshire County Council.
In the 1960s, the line was considered by Dr Beeching as an unnecessary duplication of other lines that served the same places, especially the Midland Main Line and to a lesser extent the West Coast Main Line. Most of the route was closed between 1966 and 1969 under the Beeching axe.
@@timawells It's great that your documenting changes around us we've lost so much in such a small space of time I loved going to Sheffield when I was younger it never felt like a city to me but a series of small towns and villages. I still can't believe they pulled down all those buildings to replace it with Meadow hell lol Hope you get better soon
@@georgefarrow8596 I wish I had started sooner George. Did my apprenticeship at British Steel Rotherham and used to look at the time on Hadfield's when waiting for the buses.
I feel for the navvies that toiled , building these lines, take a look at the infrastructure still left around vic Station and tell me thats something you'd want to build, along with massive viaducts ,embankments, cuttings , the new woodhead tunnel is now only 70 years old , yet passenger traffic ceased in 1970 apart from a few diverted passenger trains , the freight lasted until july 17th 1981 , the infrastructure on this line was off the scale with upto 4 running lines in places , massive yards etc , its absolutely criminal to believe this was ever allowed to be consigned to the rubbish bin.
@@timawells And the private (well First backed) competitor to East Coast services from Hull and Bradford is called Grand Central (I keep calling it Great !)
Theyve been on about opening the line to Deeocar for ages Tim. Why they haven't I dont know because a train from Stocksbridge steekworks still runs on that line. They used to run football special trains to Wadsley Bridge in the 80's as well but when I lived across the road from it in the early 90s the station was derelict. The line goes on to Oughtibridge and there are loads of new houses being built between there and Deepcar. It woukd be well used because buses out here in Stocksbridge are almost non-existent.
When they electrified the Sheffield to Manchester line in 1954, it knocked a hour off the time, which idiot then closed it down in 1970 Myra? I hope you and your husband are well. Best Tim
@@timawellsshut in the early 80’s courtesy of Thatcher on a very expensive to maintain line, what little traffic left was easily diverted over the hope valley.
@@22pcirish I disagree, there had been a new tunnel put through in 1954 and it had been electrified, make it the far supreme and quicker line. I am going to say it was done for other reasons. Thatcher was an extremist and got so many decisions wrong, I hate Labour just as much. I am also told the Hope Valley MP kicked off.
@@timawells Ir won’t ever reopen. I say this as a train driver and a railwayman of 37 years. There’s no need for woodhead or a desire to do it. The new tunnels are full of electric grid cables and aren’t likely to be moved.
Hello Tim. I could not agree with you more. None of the Beeching lines should have been closed. Isn't it ironic that we need them today more than ever? If we are going to get people out of cars and become more carbon neutral? We are going to have to invest a lot of money reopening these cut lines that beaching did quite foolishly. We all know why the railway system got closed down though don't we? Because the transport secretary at the time Ernest Marples had a vested interest in the building of the motorway system in this country. I do believe his partner was very heavily connected with the road building programme. I think we should bite the bullet and invest a lot of money in reopening these lines and getting our country connected and also getting our economy growing again. Where there are railways. Development and economies sprout up. I think we should have east west rail links down the southern part of Britain as well so we don't have to go through London all the time to get connected to destinations. I think the Beeching cuts were a very short sighted exercise that our railway system has yet to recover from today. What say you? Here where I live in Norfolk. Norwich and Kings Lynn were connected by a railway line. Norwich Swaffham and Downham Market were connected by railway line. Diss and Lowestoft with directly connected by railway line. Bury St Edmunds and Sudbury to Colchester were connected by railway line. Bury St Edmunds Haverhill and Cambridge was connected by railway line. You had the varsity line which started the Cambridge and ended in Oxford. Of which a lot of money has been having to be spent reopening it. It would be good if Norwich was connected by direct train link to Oxford and Milton Keynes and Cambridge and further afield. Cambridge Huntingdon right through to Kettering were connected by railway line. If this was reopen there be lot less traffic on the A14. A Rail service from London Marylebone to Sheffield will be a great idea and should be reopened. I could not agree with you more. Tim. Thank you for a great video and also thank you for uploading this. I think the Woodhead tunnel reopening will be a stunning idea. We have to reconnect all our Communities by railways again goodbye pin is the only sensible step forward for our transport. I don't know what you think and I look forward to your response. Pure.
I can't add anything to that other than to reaffirm it was all about vested interests. They shut down the Sheffield tram network in 1960, my guess Marples was behind that. I know that Norfolk had their railways butchered, what a brilliant place to get home grown food grown in that area.
Original plans was to build interchange station at Meadowhall (for HS2) But, as we know, this is scrapped now and HS2 will join Midlands Mainline around Chesterfield.
@@stanley3647 unfortunaly, I know financial difficulthy they concentrate on the Manchester, Liv, North part. Leeds branch not indeffenerly xcraped. Stop fpr Sheffield might but reduce tfravel time stop. for a less used halt might be npt worth going for. Switch halfway to ordinaire rail not very productive, except a connection to HS2 !
A slight problem with The Woodhead Tunnels and all the electrification is that the old line was 1500 volts DC, All overhead lines now operate at 25,000 volts AC and therefore the tunnel gauge is too low because of increased risk of electrical flashover and therefore unsuitable.
Agree the 1500 volt DC system was life expired but that was no reason to close the line it could have continued with diesel traction - remember the Man Pic - Harwich Boat Train used to run, under diesel power, over those metals.
Sheffield Victoria station to London on the Great Central Railway first and last time I went to London on the GC 10 years later I volunteered to work on the GC work now 50 years later I'm still a volunteer on the GC. boy to men
The railway infrastructure should never have been gutted it should have been looked after,just imagine if those lines had been mothballed how many would be back in use now. This is what happenes when you get greedy little men in suits and ties looking after their own interests. I've looked at a great deal of videos over the years where people go looking for lost lines and there are so many times where you now have an Aldi,a Sainsburys a Tesco et al,railway land sold off and it's still ongoing. Funny how they find trillions for war but not enough to look after and take care of such an important infrastructure.
They didn’t mothball anything because they didn’t want the railways to come back. That’s why so many key sections of track were granted planning permission so that in the hope it would all be built over. The government wanted cars and busses probably because all the bus and the freight haulage companies lobbied the government and brown envelopes always win.
