I was never able to figure out which was worse, the "ruptured hernia" from having to horse those damn heavy 21FJP22's in and out of the console, or having to set the purity and convergence (never an easy task in those 70° deflection sets). Kudos on a very nice job, and thanks for bringing back the memories!
I've never had to do alignment on a delta gun CRT before, so this was cool to watch! I also love the pure colors that these old TV's can produce. I seem to recall that they had slightly different phosphors than modern CRT's, but I can't remember for sure.
Shango, thank you for doing these videos!! (crt adjust and electronics adjustments and everything else). I am attempting to learn video electronics in the context of tuning up and repairing professional VTR's and though there's next to nothing out there for that, you videos help me get further and further into it. I'm finishing up an extensive mechanical threading system rebuild and tape run alignment on a Umatic BVU-800 (shoot for youtube edit) and I always always like to have something to watch like your stuff here. Getting the mechanical alignment bugs worked out of these VTRs can seriously try one's patience and I really like how you don't give up on the things you do - it has been a seriously good inspiration!
The color and depth these sets with the old 21FJP22a CRT is better than my newer plasma digital sets.It is much more pleasing to the eyes and it almost like comparing tube sound to transistor sound.
There is no such thing as "tube sound" and "transistor sound". There is clean, flat sound and distorted or arbitrarily equalized sound. If your music sounds different it's because your tubes are introducing distortion. or changing the equalization in a subtle way. Testing over the years has always shown this to be true. Tube amps tend to have higher harmonic distortion than solid state units, typically. Even-order harmonics can be pleasing to the ear. By the same token the "color" you find pleasing on a CRT is probably from the unnatural boost or imbalance that CRTs driven by analog electronics tended to have, that you happen to find attractive, the same way some people like sepia toned images rather than just black and white.
There is no such thing as "tube sound" and "transistor sound" We may be dealing with semantics over a long held perception but the differences of the type of distortion you mention and how they relate to the human hearing mechanism,and the central nervous system,definitely play major roles in how we respond to one device vs the other. Keep in mind that an amplifier is nothing more than a DC power supply we modulate with an AC signal. Naturally, we want to get the power supply as close to pure DC as we can with the tiniest of residual AC voltage left over that we can achieve.Now being that NPN/PNP transistors are current operated devices, when they clip under heavy transient levels,they go right into DC rail and that is very irritating for the complex human nervous system and even tho it's momentary,it is very noticeable to people that listen for longs periods of time. Mosfets OTOH,are voltage operated devices just like a vacuum tube.AAMOF if you look at the diagram of a MOSFET,it is basically a heaterless pentode. They are more like a vacuum tube in theory,being they also have a high input impedance vs a conventional NPN transistor, Now,getting back to even order vs odd order,tube vs transistor,I do agree that tubes produce a higher distortion but being it is even order,you wouldn't even be able to detect 5% to 7% distortion in most cases on a tube amp with the human ear because the the slight clip on the sine wave is to much smoother. On a solid state amp,it becomes very apparent because you are into the DC rail of the power supply at that point and it can be very irritating to listener over time. With Mosfets,it is much better,but they still have issues in the way they react with the hearing mechanism,not necessarily bad,but different. I have lots of tube amps,mostly vintage and I modify the power supply and signal path with better capacitors and resistors and I change the operating points by using a CCS in the phase splitter just to keep both triodes balanced. The McIntosh tube amps I have are very unique in the sense that the output stage is actually a current amplifier,even tho they use output tubes.They do this thru the bifilar output transformer but all the voltage amplification is done in the bootstrapped voltage amp and driver stages. Yes,the distortion is down in the area of a SS amp which is .11% at 75 watts. Now, on Single ended triode amps,if you put them on a scope and drive them into clipping to where you are getting about 20% to 30% distortion,it looks just like a semi rounded sq wave and yet the roll off is so smooth,it doesn't seem to hurt the ears. You don't want to run them that hard but it just shows how our hearing mechanism reacts to the different types of devices. I like MOSFETS and Tubes and I can make both sound very good and sound very similar.It isn't uncommon anymore to see a tube driver stage,and mosfet output stage,or vice versa.I also have some OTL amps I use with my old Acoustat Monitor electrostatic speakers.They drive the panels direct with no output transformer in the signal path between the amps and the speakers.They use op amps for the drivers and I did convert the voltage amp to a 6CG7 just to control the gain and the output tubes are a 6HB5 which is a combination driver and output tube. There are four in each amp giving me about 112 watts on measurement.
When it comes to audio that would be true, but when it comes to CRT it is a very known fact that they have better black levels and colours compared to most modern flat screens. It is only now catching up in those areas with OLED screens and even then CRT's are superior in some ways like for example not having to use a scaler for non native resolutions which on flat screens will not only degrade picture quality, but will also introduce latency.
I've been wanting to start a Kickstarter for a new line of CRT monitors intended for retro gaming, but the thought of being able to replace an existing TV's CRT? Amazing!
This is a New Vista Color which I never knew were CTC models (I always associated those 3 letters with 1950s and early 1960s models and I guess you learn something new everyday). My grandparents had a 1965 model and a 1968 NVC portable. Our first color TV was one of these. RCA switched to New Vista Color in 1963 for the 1964 models.
Always discharge the 2nd Anode. Boy does this bring back memories. Broke my teeth replacing old round CRT's back some fifty years ago. Ha and then the day of tubes only, to hybrid sets, to totally solid state sets. And needing to use an isolation xfmr so ya didn't blow up your o-scope when ya hooked up your ground connection to the chasis. Thanks for the upload
Way I set sets up after changing CRTs... First get the set to produce good/perfect B/W Picture first--So, Purity, Grey-Scale, Pict geometry and convergence all done first--Then turn yer colour up. Doing it any other way--you'll chase yer tail, and set won't be set up as good as it could be! Always, good Black/White picture First--Then add yer colour!.
Reversing the yoke leads was always a fun trick. Especially the horizontal leads during a baseball game. Batter up! He hits! He runs to third base! WTF!!?? Of course the jig was up as soon as they supered any stats or scores.
21FJP22. That's the number I remember. Replaced a lot of them. Purity, H-V linearity, static convergence, dynamic convergence. Done it a hundred times.
We had a Philco Ford Roundie. It had a metal cabinet on wooden legs. I would like to see a TV like it in working order. It was our first color TV, in 1969. I assume it was an old used one. The VHF and UHF tuner was in one knob.
The CRT shocking you might be deadly if it caused you to drop the damn thing and it imploded sending shards of glass all over the place like a grenade going off. But it's really easy to first short out the connector with a bit of insulated wire to be on the safe side. I've done that many times and never even drew an arc. Where do you get replacement CRT's these days?
I had a CTC16 with a nice cabinet many years ago but the picture tube was dead so I ordered a new one from Lafayette for $60 and never received it and then I found out they went out of business. I was very upset that I had to strip the TV. I do have a CTC5 now.
Hi Shango. I was wondering if one could make a fixture and using electrically heated nichrome wire,.if it would speedup and make it safer, getting the safety glass off these tubes with cataracts. Just an thought. I don't have any tubes like the ones you have, so no way I could test this out. Great job as always. All the best. Bobby
***** The collection is still growing! I've just purchased a 1957 RCA-Victor portable from the USA, which will hopefully arrive here around mid-November. Another collector has offered me a 1963 AWA console, and I'm picking up a 1964 Kriesler console from a collector up North. On top of that, I may be picking up a 1962/63 HMV low-boy from a collector and friend down south.
A few questions for you. How common are replacement "roundie" picture tubes? I have my parents' original 1965 Zenith Color TV that actually still works, but the image, best as I can describe it, is weak. Years back, a guy I knew that worked at Sears on TVs said it was probably just an old "gassy" tube that would need to be replaced. Do most large cities (I live near Ontario California) have guys that still do these sets?
+ToyKingWonder Nope, no one rebuilds them any more so they are rare. I may have one I would be willing to part with, install and setup for you but its not going to be cheap. Generally its easier to find the whole set and hope the crt is good.
+shango066 Where are you located? It may be a while before I get to it, as it is in storage at the moment. Is it possible that there could be other problems and that the tube itself is fine?
+shango066 It may be some time before I get to this project, but based on your videos, depth of knowledge and experience, I would like someone like you to take a look at it. I do not want to "make a project" out of it and do this myself, although I am a huge DIY person and restore tons of things, this one I would like a professional to handle. It has a lot of sentimentality to it. The background is I actually went to the TV store with my parents to buy this. It was 1965. This was our "living room" TV, which meant it was what we watched special movies on, etc. This is where I learned that Gilligan's shirt was red and the Skipper's was blue--we had always had black and white TVs, and the "family" TV was still the big Admiral downstairs with the sonic remote control, which was a nice TV but black and white. This TV was in constant use until 1983, when my parents finally broke down and bought a Mitsubishi big screen TV, you know the faux oak kind that folded down to work. So it was given to me. I do believe at one point the picture tube had been replaced, and I think it was relatively later in its use. So maybe I am lucky on this one. But it definitely needs some work. I will keep you on file to talk at a later date, and will take a look at your other videos for enjoyment.
I watched several of these old color TV refurbishments and I notice that red always seems to be the first color to get weak. Why is that? Blue always looks great.
Re. getting a shock from the EHT, the HMV F5 chassis service manual puts it well: "Caution The normal B+ voltages in this receiver are dangerous. Use extreme caution when servicing this receiver. The high voltage at the picture tube anode (16,000 volts) will give an unpleasant shock but does not supply enough current to give a fatal burn or shock. However, secondary human reactions to otherwise harmless shocks have been known to cause injury. Always discharge the picture tube anode to the chassis before handling the tube. The picture tube is highly evacuated and if broken it will violently expel glass fragments. When handling the picture tube, always wear goggles." Being a colour set, the RCA might pack more of a boot but I would expect the warning above applies just the same; the B+ is more dangerous.
NicsStuffmedia The second anode voltage on these tubes was 25,000 volts. The B&W tubes of the period had typical second anode voltages between 16,000 and 20,000 volts. The B+ voltage on this set is 405 volts at greater than 1 amp. This is definitely dangerous and can cause electrocution.
Did these sell for less money than sets with more rectangular CRT's ? Some people may have felt cheated that they did not get more picture in the corners ?
Acetic-acid based caulks can potentially destroy a CRT-anode flyback, especially when it is covered with paraffin-based wax. The oil in the wax would likely transport minute amounts of acetic acid to the delicate copper windings of the flyback. But such a caulk would be okay for sealing the safety glass on a roundie CRT, but it would certainly stink for a few days. I'll bet that the color on that CRT will knock your socks off, which was the original intent behind its design. I still think that Shango should keep an operating dosimeter handy and maybe wear a lead vest to protect him from exposure to X-radiation emitting from these sets when they are in operation, and thus prevent from experiencing any symptoms he may suffer as a result of such exposure. It's unfortunate that they don't have vaccines for the ebola virus, which quite often causes death, especially when the initial symptoms are quite similar to the flu. Of course, many varieties of the flu are fatal as well, as demonstrated by the many millions of sufferers who succumbed to it in the early 20th Century. Such an event would indeed be *catastrophic* today.
@hawkturkey travelling on a plane or going to the beach exposes you to more radiation then a month working on a tv shop...but gnorance keeps spreading the myth..crt tvs are dispeearing but getting each and each year more dangerous
@@MrHBSoftware I remember the ruckus around the possible x-ray radiation from older color tvs. They did run pretty dang high voltage for those color guns on the big tubes. It turns out from what I learned is most of the radiation was in the vicinity of the high voltage rectifier tube. It was the x-ray tube not the crt. I had an old worn out color set from 60sv a neighbor gave me to play with and that thing you could ' feel ' the charge in the air from the high voltage.
@@michaelszczys8316 yes there is significative radiation around the rectifier. But it is shielded in a can and 50 cm away you cant measure any radiation..the thing you fell is static charge and you may also smell ozone if there are high voltage leaks, ozone is produced and makes a sizzling noise. The crt doesnt output any measurable radiation, the glass also contains lead. A dental x ray is much much worse than working on several tvs...even bananas emit radiation
@@MrHBSoftware that's what I meant. It just seemed to ' charge ' the whole area. I guess I could see why there might have been a concern about radiation as sometimes you could feel ' something '.
When I first heard the music I thought for a second it was eye of a tiger but it ended up being wild cherry so I was thinking thank god then right when that song finishes eye of a tiger comes on.....
Do you need to reset the radio code..lol changing a car battery. Even a car battery can kill....just drop one on your head! I don't have a source for the double sided tape anymore... translation is I can't steal it from work any more, (your killing me...)
I would bet my pilots license that that airport was there when the land underneath your house was a farm field, and the city limit was several miles away. I would guarantee that if the airport was there when you bought the house, that you saved money because it effects the property value. You get more lead from the solder you heat with your iron - and it isn't easy or cheap to modify a 40-50 year old aluminum engine to run eco friendly obama ethanol crap gas. Sorry, but it needed to be said.
