I still play SoD but I'm not a fan of the leveling experience in it. Vanilla 1-60 leveling without experience buffs and world pvp without overpowered SOD runes is peak classic.
I loved leveling in SoD during the different phase launches. The lack of an XP boost, and the significance of random quest rewards felt so cool! Not only that but trying to get runes that were placed in higher level zones felt terrifying and required me to team up with some guildies to accomplish. I like classic wow, but SoD adds so much flavor to it that I disagree with Pallytime's conclusion(s).
Been watching your vids a lot recently as ive started a character on classic era and been loving it. Whitemane is pumping and even with inflation ive found myself able to afford plenty of the eagle gear and recently got thermapluggs core!
People are starting to see the value in spirit? Hell yeah! People were so superficial back at Classic's launch thinking that it was some kind of mistake that a bunch of spirit was randomly splashed onto so much vanilla gear. Even warriors can significantly benefit from spirit as you mentioned. (though obviously, hybrid classes benefit much more fluidly due to mana regen continuing during combat) That combat sequencing you described here is exactly why the vanilla Paladin is my all time favorite class. You try to spend all your spells up front in one burst then auto attack and chill. Only breaking that downtime if you see an opportunity to drop one of your situational spells. (Freedom-ing a party member, or stopping a runner from pulling adds for a couple examples) Breaking the formula of that Paladin gameplay I love so much is why I will never see eye to eye with the people that want Crusader Strike. Even if it objectively makes the class perform better in many situations, it is a fundamental change of the Paladin gameplay identity which also leads to gear being made with different priorities in mind. As for the people that are bored and want to press more buttons? Rogue is right there guys. You don't have to delete my class from the game to get the gameplay you want. The game used to cater to people that wanted different styles of gameplay. If it has to exist it should be the 31 point Ret talent to keep it from spilling over into my Prot gameplay. As for the vanilla leveling experience being better? You're preaching to the choir here. Thanks for trying to put this view into words and sharing the sentiment around.
I thought the same, "how could I level a warrior now that I'm used to how involved my rotation is on SoD?" But, once I started raid logging in phase 3 I decided to jump into Deviate Delight for the fresh start and was immediately addicted all over again. Leveling on classic is the perfect amount of both casual play and strategy and it will never grow old on me.
What I find great about the pacing and difficulty is that killing mobs is HARD... but not super hard. Its a little brainless and slow... but gives you PLENTY of time to think "how can I do this better? How can I be more efficient?" And when you find those little increases it FEELS great. I remember being level 44... following some ret guide (barf) taking 40s+ to kill a mob. 6 years later I have sub 25s Kill Times... and I can FEEL it and its great. On right... 25s kill times and ZERO down time. Hell yeah.
First, I want to say I really appreciate your content. So, I don't know exactly why, but for me SOD just feels like a Fun server. When I play classic or on twow I feel more immersed with my class even when I have to admit the new abilities in SOD are cool but like retail I can't immerse myself in a world where my choices don't matter (combat engagment/resource managment/gear choice that matter/every little skill point that matters etc.) Also, things like the Troll racial "Regeneration" works really well with Spirit.
I felt the same way about not being able to level in classic era after going through SOD. I just finished leveling to 60 on deviate delight and it was a much better experience. To be fair it was on a warrior and not a paladin but being out in the world, making a plan for which zones and quests to hit, grouping with people for elite quests/dungeons, and finding resources while you level felt infinitely better and more enjoyable than the dungeon spam of SOD p2 and the incursion spam or p3.
Everything has a time. Sod was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I will always hold true classic in my heart but after having done it 25 times I’m ready to put that to bed for a good many years
@@VegetoStevieD a downgrade implies it’s trying to be the same. People seem to lose sight of the fact it’s a seasonal experiment… it’s not a replacement for classic. But for a lot of people it replaces the time they’d spend playing classic vanilla. People just need to relax and if they like era keep playing it… sod is in a different swim lane. I’m burnt out on pure vanilla because I did it for 10+ years over and over.
Can't tell you how mad I was after Phase 1 of SoD, that they overtuned the gear and runes SO much without altering the mobs one bit. All they had to do was add nerfed versions of a couple future abilities to each class, one or two rune slots MAX and the abilities themselves should've been on par with Vanilla in terms of dmg/healing output and overall strength. But ofcourse they had to overtune the fuck out of it and turn SoD from "Classic Plus Lite" to "Modern WoW with less zones"
been wanting to get back into classic wow. I never got to play on release as I was still playing everquest, but its a tough community to get into when you don't know anything. I understand that there are some folks out there who are more than willing to help, but its tough. I DO have some experience, I solo leveled on Whitemane on two toons to lvl 60 and I went to phase 3 in SoD before quitting. I definitely see where you are coming from with being to OP in SoD, but it was fun while it lasted. Anyway, if you have any advice I would love to hear it. I dont want to have to figure out how to get into a gdkp and I just wanna do high lvl dungeons for prebis. god bless.
Had any luck Kyle? My advice is just to go /join lookingforgroup. In the text chat. Then look for the dungeons that you need for prebis. Im going to assume black rock depths and upper Blackrock spire see if anyone is posting if not say ur class and the dgs u wanna run. If no bites after like 5-10 attempts/minutes maybe make a group and advertise it in the same chat
I go back to 1x nochanges classic every once in a while and try to love it, but the inevitable grinding and spots where you are in between levels is just a non-starter for me now. I have leveled too many characters that way at this point and once I got a taste of Classic with changes to spice up its gameplay AND make leveling more brisk and engaging, I can not go back for any length of time without some SERIOUS incentive. Maybe if they did a 2019 level relaunch some how, I would be interested again. But really to me the thing I love about classic is the content itself, so I like moving through it at a brisk pace and getting to see all that the leveling has to offer before it feels like I'm grinding towards a goal again. Really 2x is all it ever needed. That first phase of Season of MASTERY (not discovery) was perfect in my eyes. I don't really like SoD either because it has transformed the game into Wrath more than Classic. But I can not go back to era either, especially when you see how messed up the social culture is in all Classic products are now.
In classic while leveling you can tank/heal with any talents, it doesn't work like in retail that you need to have a spec for it. Just save int gear for healing and stam gear for tanking and swap when you do these roles.
Stam Spirt is better for TANKING then Healing in dungeons... but at level 40 it doesn't really matter what gear you use because its Rank 1 FoL spam with Blessing of light mostly. In this gear you have to drink a mana pot when things get round... also having Major Recombobulator Ray as a trinket is SUPER good. What happens is that you are SUPER mana effeicent in Stam/Spirt with some Owl bits compared to Stam/Int gear... but when things get rough you need the deeper mana bar... so out comes the Mana pots and Rebob trinket. Jugs of Light has a video tanking in Stam Spirt gear you can search for. Looks nice.
Yes and No Human is good for PvE and Dwarf is good for PvP. The issue is that MANY of your best weapons, cheep and easy to get while leveling are polearms and axes off the AH... Why? Because they are FAST and no one wants Axes or Polearms... EXPECIALLY fast ones Alliance side. Flurry Axe = An Axe... best single target damaging axe in the game for Paladin... level 42 BoE Epic. Stuff like that.
If you were a dev for classic plus, and wanted to make retribution more competitive in raid and pve, what are some small changes that could accomplish this without going the SoD route? For tanking it seems they just need a taunt and maybe one other thing to atleast be viable.
TBC unironically fixed this. You wanted one for utility and they could hold their own in DPS (personally, they should even tune them down just a little there too). That's enough, Paladins do not have to be competitive in pve DPS. If you really want that, unironically play retail. Or, you'll have to give up some of your utility as a trade off.
@@sproosemoose285 im not asking to top meters but ret in classic will never be allowed in a raid. I would just want a minor change where your not insta declined for wanting to dps as a classic pally
@@djhanger3035 So don't play a Paladin if your intention is to dps in raids? There's lots of data out there showing exactly what each class can do in pretty much every facet of the game. Paladin isn't a pve dps class, it's a healer/support class. Or, like I said, play retail.
@@sproosemoose285 then why even have the ret spec to begin with. Your mentality is idiotic if your gonna have ret be a dps spec have it compete or have a different spec
@@djhanger3035 You're trying to apply a retail like mentality on to Vanilla in regards to "specs" where in those games specs defined a class and what it could do. Think of them more as little bonuses or "icing on the cake" and round out the class. IE a Paladin excels at supporting because it's a support class, and talent trees round out the classes strengths. You're also trying to view the game through the lens of raiding/PVE when there's more to the game than that. Maybe start looking at the game as a WHOLE and classes will make a lot more sense to you. Hope that helps!
Man just give us a rotational server that goes through vanilla to Wrath over three years theb restarts. Its easy to take care of and will generate them a shit load of money. And then no kore classic andys complaining.
Yeah but you are demonstrating on undead where u can use exercism on them. Fighting mobs that are not undead or demons with paladin is a really slow grind.
This doesn't make any sense, this has nothing to do with SOD, it has to do with tunning, you can have the exact experience in SOD if blizzard did the right tunning. I personally can't handle an auto attack build, I also can't handle SOD paladin, too boring. Classic era servers are there for a reason, for the people who enjoy them. SOD needs tunning and more complex interactions between skills, adding more skills like divine storm does literally nothing, the skill is just another auto attack. And yes I agree SoD needs changes, and not just mobs HP and DMG. Figuring this out is very important for classic+.
I don't see any actual argument. Really. You just don't like to faceroll mobs due to how powerful SoD pala is. ok. yeah. But people do not say that only for the damage or number of button. People say that for the QoL changes as well. You just like to autoattack more. This does not make it better :S
Grain of salt. My POV is very subjective, but I am really dissapointed that you left SoD. I really respect your knowledge and wish you luck staying in comfort zone of vanilla theorycrafting.
So to represent your paladin build you chose green undead mobs and you still wasn't satisfied with the performance. If you fought any other enemy type with appropriate level it would be no different than typical boring vanilla paladin leveling expierience.
Nah... I have videos on that... you use your mana to judge Crusader for +100 Spell Power then use SoR and Consecration. You get about 20s kill times compared to 17 vs undead or demons. Kill times are identical... what makes the diff is that Exorcism can PULL the mob 30y away. I made a list of UD and Demon mobs you can farm from level 20 onwards all the way to 60. Most of them are out of the way area's no one goes. The Undead mob area there has a quest item you can put down that will summon infinate undead Centars like level 39... Demons just left of there are level 40... and the demons right outside Desolace Point are level 34. Let me check... After this i farm the Undead Ghosts just north of Azshara level 45... then the Demons in Azhara 50-52 Or go WPL At level 41 I would probably go quest a bit... get level 43... Do some ZF Runs for Gear... then find myself in Azshare.
Classic leveling 1-60 is bis mmo leveling. TBH, hardcore servers should have addons removed, force your leveling to be alot harder knowing you cant be alt tabbing to look at wowhead for quest info and have to learn the quests by heart. A true hardcore mode
You may as well say I like playing with less buttons and enjoy questing. I only enjoy endgame. If you like questing and lvling you can make as many characters as u want. P.S having no buttons def makes you more mana efficient 😂 Btw this gameplay seams so boring. I played warrior in classic lvling that was pain, a pally prob much easier/easiest to lvl. Looks so boring
@@BudMasta it’s not a matter of months. People took months when they were teenagers with a lot of free time and too little study and exercise. From level 30 on it’s like 8 hours playtime a level if you go fast. If you are exploring and enjoying the experience it’s a lot longer. By the time you are getting to 50ish playing regularly but healthily, they are releasing TBC. I agree retail is too easy and fast, but classic era is just too long. And it’s not challenging, it’s just an endurance play. It’s not challenging to grind 263635738362662 mobs if you killed the first 3 without an issue, it’s just too many wasted hours.
@@doctorprepper8106 that was the point the main part of the game was getting to level 60 it was suppose to be a big thing that took forever. Back when WoW was released even in FPS games like battlefield it took a good year of normal play to get to the top rank and get all the unlocks.
@@doctorprepper8106 it was out over a year, plenty of people got to 60 without issue, even two 60s, you say its not hard but youre complaining about its design from 2004. gearing would easily double or triple the level time anyway. pvpers waited weeks to get upgrades. leveling was never the issue, everything in the game had value from 1-60, if you were only in the 20s for 5 hours no one would farm or care about any of the items for 20-30. its good because its a grind and everything takes forever. everything has value and meaning, professions matters, people are doing old content even if they have 60 gear, people helping others. no one even speaks on retail
@@BudMasta the time it takes from 20-30 is fine. The issue is the time it takes for 40-50 or 50-60. Yeah, plenty of people had 60s, most of them played over 5 hours a day. That’s like a job. I love the leveling experience up to 30ish. Gear matters, it’s challenging enough. Over 30 there is no difficulty added, it’s just more time consuming and that’s my point.
Only a massively small player base truly enjoys leveling in classic because it’s just horrible. Classic Era population has remained the same for months. Even the massive leveling wave in Deviate Delight was just the same Classic Era Player base converging to one location to level and it’s already dead. SoD is just more realistic and time efficient. Its completely ok to enjoy Classic Era and SoD for different reasons but you cannot sit here and justify classic era is more popular when SoD has almost 5x the population of It sitting at 85k and Classic era at 17k
@@VegetoStevieD You absolutely can. Thats how you use Data. Deviate Delight was done already and failed miserable. It was literally started 3 months ago during P3 drought of SoD. What better example do you need?
Well they coming out with HC fresh Classic Servers... and now that its Microsoft and not "Actively dont' care about you" aka Activition... the servers are MUCH better. The whole time I was playing SoD I was waiting for a DC where if it was HC I would die... Never happened. So I am down to get that 60 on HC. Can't be "They guy who makes HC guides but dies"
