RetroTINK 4K - The only Scaler you'll ever need 

750 dollars madness price that more then a ps5. Worth it no they need to low that price down

MVG you don’t play World of Warships quit clownin’

@@lilmul123 He will eventually play it once someone ports it to the N64.

You mentioned you did not have a capture device capable of capturing what this device is able to output. Are you able to give suggestions on what capture device could capture what this device outputs?

Thanks for posting this. I know this isn't a game related question but have you tested this with VCR tapes? I ask because I'm debating on getting a high-end scaler because I have a ton of VHS tapes to rip and I need a really good scaler due to some interlacing issues I have with many of the tapes. The price isn't a problem for me if this produces the best possible quality, however, I'm not interested in throwing money away if there are equally good options. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

That’s a very reasonable price to have your N64 look like it’s running on a shit 90s CRT.

TBF you probably don't need RT4K with MiSTer ( though native 4k upscale is slightly better than a 1440p upscale that your TV upscales to 4k)

You forgot the USB steering wheel

Do it with SotN and watch that beautiful walk cycle😊

There is a cheaper option: emulation. And you don't have to upscale the image, you can increase the internal resolution for a way better final image.

Exactly, This whole product just seems delusional. Like when people buy gold plated HDMI cables for "better image quality" lol $750 for a upscaler, like wtf? Who is this even for?

@@NickJayj I can't imagine that price is in anyway justified for the product? 99.9% people do not really care beyond native output vs a nice clean HD output. I got a HDMI output for my PS2 the other day for 9 dollars - it looks great, really cleared up the image. That's all I ask for.

​@@NickJayjenthusiasts Cleary. Also, are you watching on a 4k display while having 2160p selected?

I swear I had to pause the video multiple times just to make sure I wasn't going crazy

@@Awesomeness4627 Even with a 4K screen and 2160p selected RU-vid's compression is going to make comparisons hard. @Nickjayj the gold plating on HDMI cables can actually make a difference and is in fact part of the spec for 4K and 8K cables which are far more susceptible to interference (there's an older LTT video where they used a cable tester and explained some of the science). Gold plated TOSLink on the other hand is just stupid (it's an optical connection) but the gold plated ones are often cheaper than the non-plated ones. I will say that the vast majority of people don't actually care about resolution that much. Those that say they don't care often care more than they realize while those that say they care often can't tell the difference between 720 and 4K. RU-vid actually did some experiments where they switched peoples videos to lower resolutions to see how many people would switch it back, I was apparently one of the relative few that was bothered by it but even I can't always tell the difference. Especially in something like a talking head video, it seems to be far more noticeable, at least to me, with videos that have more movement or action to them so a video game at different resolutions would probably be more noticeable (at least to me, I'm also slightly autistic so I might perceive things a bit differently). Personally, I can't justify the cost (and to be fair to MVG he did make a big deal about the cost). I just don't play enough retro consoles, I'm more likely to play a remake or use emulation (even in cases where it's inferior) because it's easier. The one system I'd really like to use this on is the Switch but there's a good chance the Switch 2 or whatever it gets called will be backwards compatible and have a native upscaler (probably NVidia DLSS based). I could also, probably, find a Switch emulator (that hasn't been disappeared due to questionable business practices giving Nintendo an actual leg to stand on) to play Switch games at higher resolutions and with other benefits like better load times and mods (to be clear I do legally own all of my Switch games as well as a Nintendo Switch console/handheld and feel I'm entitled to play them on superior hardware if I so choose).

I think if you're watching a video of a comparison, you may or may not notice a difference depending on the resolution of the monitor you're looking on. I think if you wanted to see a true difference it have to have one video playing on a 4K TV and another video playing on a 1080p TV

6:10 - He did the Fable comparison, where it went from 1080p to 4k from frame to frame. You can see a clear difference in sharpness/clarity. Naturally, I would also recommend manually setting this video's quality to 4K. Even if you're on a 1440p screen, you will see the quality difference.

If you do that, you will see that the improvements are nonexistence... Just use your arrow keys to move the timeline. There is no reason to waste money on this.

@@ElShotte Not gonna lie, they look identical to me. But I'm running a 1080p monitor so maybe that's why

A side-by-side comparison could only be accurate on an 8K upload (with an 8K monitor).

Partners come and go. Gaming is for life

Awesome awesome comment

Odds are that in a few years they'll release an improved version and this might become more affordable, but this is clearly not aimed at regular gamers, but people who make of gaming, especially retro gaming, their actual job.

Or any economy lol if you factor in the problems with old consoles and prices of them, the prices of retro games, the prices for the controllers etc it's a completely moronic buy

I mean yeah it's not meant for most people, most people would be satisfied with a ossc, retrotink 2x, and maybe a retrotink 5x.

Those are rookie numbers

@@faenethlorhalien You're 100% right that's who it's aimed at... but at that price point, I think it's even a hard sell for them.

The Framemeister still goes for $400+

Not a great deal whatsoever too much money. Only the few hardcore in this retro community will buy it. I'm guessing the next Retrotink that he builds will be almost $2,000? Well the Chinese will build some cheaper clone and will sale for a lot cheaper.

@@CAPCOM784they have not even matched the 5x yet.

​@@TheCoolDaveonly because of scarcity, not base value

@@Fennecbutt Well you can't get a RetroTink 4K right now anyway.... So I am sure they will sell for a lot more than their value...

Obviously you need to watch this video through the retrotink to see the notable and obvious differences...

I can’t tell the difference too

I usually can tell changes in image quality really easily, but yeah I couldn't notice anything. And my video quality *was* set to 4K.

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy. I can suggest taking a couple of screenshots and flipping between them to actually be able to see the difference, the 1080p image looks a little bit "smeary" or out of focus compared to the 4k one and the blades of grass/shadows appear to be slightly more detailed. But I think this product definitely isn't for me lol, I kept rewinding the video and could not spot the difference.

Honestly, the input resolution is so low there's realistically not that much info to really upscale from. Scaling it to 1080P is enough, most modern TV's will be intelligent enough to integer scale that to 4k (so every 1 pixel becomes 4 pixels of the same colour). The output is going to be artifacty & shimmery regardless because the input resolution is low (garbage in = garbage out).

TBH, I didn't see it happening at all. This is remarkable -- not just technically, but in terms of getting this kind of niche device through the entire process must have been quite the gauntlet. I would imagine there aren't many people on this planet that could've done that, and far fewer who _would_ have.

It's just too bad that many of the tourists and general hobbyists are too smoothbrain to actually understand this impressive feat.

​@@malice5121 Who again is too smoothbrain on here to not understand it, huh? All I see are people that are saying that they are not gonna blow 800 bucks on it. Maybe you're just fanboying?

@malice5121 No one is saying it isn’t impressive. But at that price point you would be better off building a pc and just emulating the games. Nowadays emulators have so many options you can make the picture look almost identical to original hardware. And if trying to make the image look sharp is your goal, why are using original hardware at all?

@mystraunt2705 I personally emulate everything since I lost access to my old consoles and love emulation handhelds but to those who have a lot of original consoles and games, this enables you to enjoy them on a modern display. Some games also don't emulate well and if it happens to be your favorite game then you're screwed.

I would have loved 2.1 but it would have been a huge cost increase. We’d be looking at something in 1000+ range at that point.

I thought that at first, but realized the only way that really matters is if you have a 4K 120 Hz TV without its own BFI. I don't need the Tink 4K's BFI since my TV can do it for me.

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

@@raafmaat well for starters the bandwidth for 4k120 is great deal bigger than 1440p at 120. I’m guessing that would have alone probably required a more powerful chipset to be able to do the scaling and have all the features it currently has for that.

@@TVsBen The newer LG OLEDs (starting with the C2) don't have 120 Hz BFI. It'd be pretty useful imo.

Yeah for one console it would be more cost effective to get it HDMI modded

I have the 5x, definitely worth the $$

The 5X is 100% worth the price. So was were the 2X models. Hard to not assume the 4K will also be a good value (particularly for people that could use it to make money via streaming or whatever else)

I still use my Wii U for this. Playing classic gamecube games on a tablet with 0 lag and a giant screen rules.

@@ZeranZeranTwo screens are better than one

Changer indeed : D

@@ZeranZeranNow I want a Wii U, any chance they're reasonably priced these days?

@@ZeranZeran wow, didnt know this was possible.

That's the thing .. I'm not sure what he's using under the hood, but last time I checked, actual HDMI transceivers (not just digital video transceivers that _happen_ to be compatible with HDMI) are not something you can just buy for a few bucks each and drop on a PCB to send to OSH Park. That's the main reason 4K was off the table for so long. Everyone making devices with "HDMI" ports was doing it on the sly, often generating the bitstream manually, since getting properly licensed to use real HDMI components would've been way, WAY out of league. I'm not sure if this is just god-tier hardware hacking, or if the guy actually got blessed by the AV Illuminati, but either way... it wouldn't have been easy, and it _sure_ wouldn't have been cheap. Trust me. The $750 you would have to pay for this is nothing compared to what this had to have cost to develop. You want 4K? Alright. Here's what it costs. At least until you get to LG/Samsung/Sony scale.

I don't know much about this topic myself but I remember someone asked the creator, Mike Chi, why doesn't this support 4k at 120hz or something like that. Apparently if it did, this product would've been thousands of dollars in price just because the chips are so expensive. It seemed like to do anything close to this good, the price has to be closer to 1000 dollars just because the hardware inside is so expensive. It's still way too expensive for me though, but I will stick to using CRTs or I will buy a cheaper scaler eventually. Retrotink's other products are pretty reasonable in price (and OSSC also) so there's still options for everyone.

I'd expect that the FPGA used is among the most expensive parts involved. People will sometimes overlook that the Cyclone-V in the DE10nano is subsidized and would normally cost more. Plus getting a nice injection molded case is not cheap either, as good quality replacement cases (including transparent ones from MacEffects, etc) are also fairly expensive.

@@nickwallette6201 The IT6615 costs around 10USD for us. This is the HDMI transmitter used.

$750 is cheaper than extron or crestron.. and lets be honest, kramer is a step down from those brands

The fact that Mike can get the price below a 1000 bucks is pretty impressive. That being said, it's definitely meant for hobbyists and enthusiasts. I already have my Tink5X and for 300 bucks, it should be good enough for most retro gamers that don't own a framemeister but they want something better. But dang, the separate VGA input and HDMI In can be pretty tempting 😅

Assuming you live in a developed nation I doubt you’d never be able to afford one literally, even if you only saved 2 dollars a month you’d be able to pay for it in only 30 years so unless you’re over 50 that should be within your lifetime statistically. If you save 50 cents a day it would take 4 years

It's not for you then 😊 I have a huge amount of modded systems to use on this so makes it worth it. If you only own a couple of systems this isn't for you. It's the best of the best and that takes cash and alot of time to create solo. 100% worth it for my setup

It's funny i say this is too high but i did just buy a 4 thousand dollar pc for my self It's got a RTX 4090 Suprim Liquid X and i9 13900K in it. I have not even started setting up any emulators on it yet and since it's winter it doubles as a space heater lol @@kevinwoolford123

@@kevinwoolford123 Nah emulators are way more feature rich and you don't even need that expensive of a rig to run any of these games it's a foolish product to spend your money on like an 18 year old spending their rent money on a Xbox Series X it's retarded

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

"i have a huge amount" which means you have also a huge amount of money, and you are here to brag about it, like other morons on the comments. that would explain your point of view on this thing@@kevinwoolford123

That would be interesting.

But why?? Just rip them in a mkv container and use madvr

Works with LD players

I felt this video was a thank you for the free unit :)

@@nattila7713 so an advertisement

@@SomeeRandomGuy with the world of warships double dip

@@SomeeRandomGuy worse. an ad is an ad, this is a hidden ad :(

Yeah this is actually against RU-vid’s TOS if so. Report the video for fraud.

It's not insane when you consider it's an FPGA.

@@BOYSSSSS Please elaborate.

Yeah, emulators are free and better.

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

@@basshead. It's okay to admit that you're a cheapskate

It is wrong

@@petersmits6951yeah it should be free instead. /s

"cANT aFFORD iT? aRE yOU bROKE bOYS?" a product can be overpriced and still do what it should do

OMG, I laughed my ass off.

Looks the same to me but I attributed it to being on mobile. In fairness to MVG it may well be impossible to show the true quality of the device because of how RU-vid compresses video

It's just sharper, which I suppose is the goal. Hard to tell on certain devices but my phone can do 4k 60 fps and TV up to 8k and adjusting the settings to the highest resolution there is a noticeable difference which I'm sure will be even more noticeable in person outside of RU-vid compression. But is it $750 noticeable well that's up for each person to decide.

I couldn't go back to the ossc now after the tink5x 😂

And for 90% of all cases you're good in doing so. The Tink5x and now especially the RT4K cater to a very specific niche of users and applications.

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

@@yournightmare9999 honstly if i was 16 again and if we were rich I would!

​@@yournightmare9999 I'll ask Santa for one instead.

@@TheAmazingMoose-Man so now you old and can't afford?

@@yournightmare9999why are you posting this on every thread 🤖🤖

Fingers crossed

ps3 and 360 wil always look dodgy though im afraid. its just the nature of lacking many modern effects and horrible trends (mud brown era) .

You're better of getting An MClassic or 4k Gamer Pro or both and combining the two at this price point.

I use my cellphone all day every day, I break out the old genesis maybe once a month maybe

​@wateriestfire and that's perfectly fine, the Tink4k wouldn't be for you. The Tink5x would be abit more closer for you. Even at $300 it could be abit much for someone that just plays a retro console once a month though, tink2x is just alil over $100 but very minimal options,

If there's a demand, there will be iterations and competitors so no worries

that's not how it works for kickstarters items and the likes such as thie niche thing@@MrKrewie

Mike Chi has been releasing new better versions of his stuff for a good long time and they seem popular enough for the guy to keep making newer better ones. By the time you want or need one chances are a better version of this will be available.

@@Zontar82 how does it work ? , genuine question

all of it looks pretty bad tbh, especially the n64, so I think having side by side would have been great just to see what the difference from playing on a CRT actually would be just claiming it's a must have a bunch and then trying to say it's only for true enthusiasts instead of something like a much cheaper CRT for older games feels disingenuous. Feels like watching an ad.

I think the biggest selling point is compatibility with old computers that can output any random video signal under the sun, all without having to pull your hair out trying to tweak it.

It's way too expensive for most people for sure, but it does seem like a great product that would be well worth it to SOME people who can actually afford it.

It has less features and no 4k.

It depends on how much scaling you do, but typically 1-2 ms in Frame Lock and Gen Lock mode, which is basically nothing. Triple Buffer mode is a rolling 1-17 ms.

with a shitton of effects on, i've gotten it down to 2.5ms with nothing on and doign no scaling, .9ms

@@MrMoroPlays how do you measure it?

@@psylencecyThere is a built in latency display.

Yes, and more. Also, you're wrong about the RetroTINK-5X Pro. You can add scanlines to any resolution you feed it. And you can get more cleaner and appropriate scanlines with pre-scaling.

You make my heart beat at 6+ settings ❤️

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

thanks for the alternative, will definitely get one

Bruh 4k tvs are not even expensive. I got a 65 with dolby vision four years ago for $429. This shouldn't even be on your radar without a 4k tv.

@@Zontar82 Glad I could help! Not all of us need the RetroTink4K. The GBS-C is definitely a "good enough" device for those who just want a good looking and high performing image of retro consoles. :)

The market is basement dwellers who worship mike and streamers/youtubers. This shit is not worth it for the average consumer. stick with the GBS-C or upgrade to the 5x pro in the future.

100% agree ive asked the email for Retrotink and left comments on some other reviewers ...no one says anything gives it a bad look. Not a bad thing if disclosed but it should be. TBF MVG did say Mike sent it over....but we dont know if as a gift or intent to return.

Is free of course.any RU-vidrs received it.......ehm all the clowns

Really? How big is the CRT? What model? I would have thought that, if you already have a Retrotink 2x and the right component cables for your consoles, most games would still be more enjoyable to play on the modern Oled TV. Personally I have a good 2018 model LCD TV that I use to play games on an RGB modded N64 with a RAD2X, and to me that is already a huge improvement over any CRT I ever played on back in the day.

I have a panasonic ct-32sf37b. I'm not sure if it was anything to do with my OLED but on the retrotink I had screen tearing on the gamecube in games like Paper Mario thousand year door. And N64 had audio crackling issues in games like Star Fox. I heard the audio issues were patched in a firmware update, but since I have the OG 2018 retrotink I think I have to mail it to them to be updated. I'll update once I hear back on their discord. The CRT works like a charm though.

But for NES, SNES, N64 (besides the audio) the Retrotink 2x is very good. I've been keeping a close eye on the Retrotink 4k it has a lot of potential!

Yuuup it’s hitting $1k CAD too. Absolutely insane for an UPSCler.

The RAD2X (Nintendo version) is far from cheap, but I've heard that it's 50 USD plus shipping. It performs the same as the 2X Pro as it has the same hardware inside of it, and does a very good job with composite video signals as well, but it will also automatically switch to using an RGB signal when one is present, and without needing to buy the expensive component cables that you would need to get for use with most other retro adapters. An N64 will need an RGB mod in order to output an RGB signal, and NTSC versions of the Gamecube will also need an RGB mod in order for that to work, but most versions of the Snes will support RGB without needing any mod, and there are even some versions of the NES that the RAD2X will work with, though you would need to modify it in order to get an RGB signal from one.

No, It's just to expensive. Its indicitive of the price gougung that happens everyday in the retro game market. £300+ for the 5x was bad enough but this is indeed a huge piss take.

​@@nikeymikey1008you're clearly out of the loop. Just say that you don't know what you're talking about and get the hell off the video as it's not for you. The FPGA alone is expensive.

​@@nikeymikey1008 you can either get one Rad2X for every console you own or get an HDMI mod for every console you own, once you pass 4+ consoles, the RT5X starts to make a lot of sense just to get your things connected to a lot of televisions once you hit 7 consoles, the RT5X is a no-brainer once you hit more than that and you have a really good television, the RT4K makes perfect sense. if you're not that invested in this hobby, that's fine, the rt4k isn't for you, there's other products like i mentioned.

@@NeptuneSega indeed just the FPGA is around 220/300$ depending on the model used (and that's 30 unit order minimum), the transmitter (hdmi 2.0 600mhz) is probably around 50$ ish, i estimate the BOM to be around 350-400$. so definitly not cheap (and that doesn't count assembly)

It's not really meant for people who just got a NES from a garage sale. People who will buy it will have collections orders of magnitude more expensive than this.

@@novh4ck people who have large collections do it to have collections, not to play them enough to justify spending that much on a device unless they want that to also collect dust

it's meant for manchilds that want to play retro games on 4k tv's

"bUt iT's NoT tHe SAMe!" You are absolutely right, price is ridiculous..

@@NickJayj Honestly, if you're really trying to do 4K with all these enhancement filters and other junk, it's going to look better on an emulator. This is merely upscaling to 4K, emulators actually render the game at that resolution.

@@BrianCroweAcolyte with time - i started to see that upscaling by emulators games look very ugly - its not meant to look that way , ps2 plain textures in 4k looks bad - specially compare to background that not upscaled. like in Tekken games on ps2 - characters is high reaolution and backgroud is still in 480p.

@@ivan4087 If I wanted to play the game the way it was meant to look I'd be using a CRT monitor/TV with no enhancements.

@@BrianCroweAcolyte i dont have crt (i have bit its small, old, already blue spots on screen). so upscaling on like only 720p on lcd will work to look like real console

I came here wondering the same. I picked up an mClassic for $70 or $80, I can't remember, and it is pretty impressive what it's able to do with the Switch and with 6th generation and earlier consoles. I think it's less noticeable with the Switch, but with the 360 and PS3 it was very noticeable. Don't get me wrong, switching the mClassic on and off will definitely show you a difference on the Switch, especially at 1440p like you mentioned, it's just not as drastic of a difference as earlier gen consoles. I'd love to know how it compares and I hope someone does a side by side comparison. This thing does look absolutely incredible, though.

@@nickspeck I had the mclassic when it came out, returned it. It isn't a bad scaler but the limited control over the sharpening and whatever else it does to the images is stupid. Not worth anyones money. You can make some things look better but then theres a outline of ghosting white/black outlines everywhere else and when you step back all it is really doing is smearing your details and resharpening them from upscaling them. Consider getting something else like one of the ossc or pro or a different retrotink product.

@@scikoolaid I appreciate that perspective, honestly. You're 100% right in that you have very limited control over what the mClassic does. I do personally like what it does, but I can see how someone wouldn't. My fear of stepping up to the next level is that I'm going to end up liking it for marginally better results and then dive down the rabbit hole for ever diminishing returns. I will check those out that you mentioned to see what I can find. Thanks!

The big thing is the cost of components. That’s where it gets expensive. The market hasn’t recovered at all, and I suspect that FPGAs aren’t going down in price anytime soon:( I’m sure someone has down a breakdown somewhere, so they have proper info. But if he could sell it for less he would.

They're manufactured at a factory overseas. But yes, they are designed by a single guy in his garage.

does it come with beard cream and deodorant spray as well?

There you go that handwritten note makes all alright. 🙄 I don't care if it's made by little elves in a hollow tree it's NOT worth $750. There is nothing this does that justifies the price. I'm glad it exists for those handful of people who are convinced they really need this but this is insane.

@@mpholicx2ppl say the same about a $1000 phone/iphone or whatever but guess what? yeah, ppl can use a $300 phone but some want the best camera, best screen, best anything, so they buy it. same here. if you want the best (currently), you will pay a lot. and vintage computers/consoles, as with any forw. hobby, is expensive.

Fun fact (as somebody with epilepsy): Contrary to all the warnings you see in games and the prevalence in other media and what-not, only a tiny portion of people with epilepsy have photo sensitivity as a trigger. About 4%. So it's a tiny % affected of a small % who have epilepsy at all. It's so pervasive in media I still get nervous around strobes even though its never been a trigger in tests. But yea, that was an artifact of the time, limited resources, that was how things were made "exciting", haha.

True, but will this device last longer than a (old) CRT? Probably. Emulation has drawbacks too.

The parts for a 4K scaler are expensive, the customer base for a high end device is small, that's it.

A lot of people don't have space, or don't want to make space, for a CRT. Also, modern TVs still have some advantages over CRTs. Even though there are certain quirks of CRTs which the console games took advantage of, and even though their video signal and graphics aren't designed with modern flat panel TVs in mind, some games still look better, imo, on a good modern LCD TV than on most CRTs, if not all CRTs. Finding a really good, large CRT is also going to be even less feasible for most people than finding a smaller or medium sized one, and won't necessarily be cheap even if you do find one. Also, these adapters are made in fairly small quantities, and they also need to cover their R and D costs, so they can't get the costs down anywhere near as low as a large electronics manufacturer could if they were doing production runs in the millions of units. That being said, the Retrotink 2X Classic was already an excellent, well-rounded adapter, and went for 100 USD, which is obviously a LOT more affordable than the Retrotink 4k, and you can find some other adapters of a similar level of quality for around the same price, or even less in some cases. The RAD2X adapters are really good, but they are less versatile, as you have to buy a separate one for different console brands, as they plug directly into the proprietary ports used by different console brands, but that also comes with the benefit of not needing to buy an additional component cable for the system to plug into the adapter, as you would have to do with most other good retro adapters. Depending on what you need, a RAD2X could be the best value option for you, as they go for 50 GBP plus shipping, which I think is about 55 or 60 USD before shipping.

this one adds less than 1 frame in its most optimal mode/settings, and up to just over 3 frames when you enable all its compatibility settings for the sake of capture (if you're just playing, it isn't necessary)

The FPGA it uses is about $300 which is insane because it was originally made in 2011. Guess there is no competition in the FPGA market.

It's not absurd when you consider it's an FPGA. I wish I could buy one but yeah, it's too expensive for me.

Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas

@@yournightmare9999 Ironically childish response... How old are you?