Hi Steve. Just want to say that my complete system cost hovers around $10k and I don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford $10k for a single component, but I really enjoyed this review and please keep ‘em coming from all price ranges. I learn a lot whether the gear costs $100 or $10k. Thanks.
I'm with you. Whether out of my range or not, I still get a lot out of his reviews. Come to think of it, that's a sign of one helluv'an audio guy and reviewer.
Homer Jones I’d be surprised and shocked if I ever came across anything from AR at a thrift store, but you never know. AR seems to retain their value on the used showroom floors of my local dealers.
Matthew DiTullo No, probably not. I HAVE found a couple of old Marantz pieces in exceptional condition for not very much, and I was surprised and shocked (and grabbed them with both hands). A pitfall of buying expensive equipment on the sly, because if you die and no one in the house knows how much you spent for something, that’s exactly what can happen to it.
My first live Jazz experience was in 1965 when I was 18 and my friend and I drove down to the Five Spot in Greenwich Village to hear The Max Roach Quintet with Freddie Hubbard, Clifford Jordan, Ronnie Matthews and Ron Carter with Max's wife, Abby Lincoln who sang several numbers with the group. We made this trip for many weeks, each week better than the week before. That was It for me and I've been addicted to Jazz ever since.
Having the third output is great when you're using the first two and you have a separate headphone amp. It works great for me. One output to speakers, second output to active subwoofer and output three to my headphone amp.
Yep. Get annoyed at those companies who don’t give you a headphone jack nor fixed outputs, and yet sell separate headphone amps. Talking to you, Schiit.
Hi Steve, I was surprised and delighted by your review of the LS28se. I live in Minneapolis just down the road from AR. I'm also a member and a board member of the Audio Society of Minnesota. One of our other board members works at AR and actually let me use the beta version of the LS28SE as well as the tube amp that compliments it. I compared it to my reference system which is a Mcintosh C50 preamp and MC352 amp running Magnepan .7's with REL Tzero subs. I ran the AR preamp with my 352 and the .7's without the REL. I agree with you it's a sweet preamp, very detailed and neutral with a little tube, just a little tube sounding. My C50 has a warmish more punchier sound, than the LS28SE. The LA28SE does make recordings sound better. Any way just wanted to say hi, I enjoyed the review and agreed with you that the LS28SE is a very very good Preamp. I noticed a lot the comments expressed concern and dismay about the high price. I just want to add that if you want to buy very high quality audio built in America and you want the company to pay its employees good wages, products are going to cost a lot. There's just no getting around that. I also encourage your followers and others to support your local audio dealer if you have one nearby. My .7's were purchased locally as was my c50, the c50 was the store demo so I did get a discount. When I purchased the MC352 used, I tried to find one locally but after 2 weeks of searching no luck, I did buy it on ebay used. But I encourage all to support your brick and mortar store! Keep up the good work!
Wow..so much hate on ARC and the price...I’ve owned lower priced ARC (bought used) and love their products. This is discouraging...Steve mixes it up by exposing this tribe to higher end electronics, and people bash him for it. There are only so many under $1k small speakers the man can review. I for one love the variety. Keep ‘em coming Steve!!!
i saw Son of Dave live, here in the uk. Highly reccommended. I have not heard his recordings but him setting up loops and building the whole arrangement and harmonica on the fly was great live
Amazing video because I have a very similar story. My first ARC unit was an SP6. I sent it in for mods twice and made it a 6B and 6C. I never should have sold it. I also made it through a bunch of ARC amps. I Came to my senses and bought a Reference 3 and later a Reference 5. Lost my way again during a bout with chronic audiophilia. Back in the 70's I too was purchasing with the employee discount. 10K takes this way out of my current league. No problem though. I am happy with the system I have. I am just glad ARC is doing well.
I have an LS10SE upgraded solid state preamp. Fully balanced… beats my PassLabs XP20 SE for musicality and depth. Drives my Luxman M900u really well. Synergy perfect 👍 and it brings the Ref CD9 to life, beautifully.
I second the request re: soundproofing - I am getting ready to move the big rig upstairs (a Cornwall One copy which has a pro woofer with a legitimate 98dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity). Currently - it's in a room with a garage and kitchen (several walls) between it an the neighbor. Upstairs - a double pane window set in an "R28" 2x4 stud/drywall/wood-siding wall. As a stopgap, I may put book shelves between/behind the speakers to block the window - they would not quite be flush to the window frame - as there is a hot-water baseboard that forces a gap. I know myself too well - having crossed the line many times with martinis, G-and-T's, and whisky sours. STEVE PLEASE HELP!!
Thanks Steve! Wow, all the hate here. You do realize that there are many products that are MUCH more expensive than this preamp, right? No one is forcing you to buy any of this. If it isn't your thing, pass by. As others have said, Audio Research builds all of their equipment in Minnesota, from American made parts, with trained American labor. Sure you could build it in China, but that isn't the way the company works. High End American audio is desired all over the world. It's a shame it gets criticized at here at home. Audio Research has produced some of the best sounding equipment out there. I have owed several pieces of their gear over the years - four currently. Only two of those pieces did I buy new. One of the great thing about Audio Research is that even though it is expensive, it holds value very well so people trade up. When they do, the previous generation is available at a discount. I now have the two generation old LS27. It sounds fantastic, especially with the new upgraded (used) Audio Research phonostage I just added. I'm not rich, but I do value my audio system and I just had a small windfall, so I splurged. I played Miles Davis Sketches of Spain for a friend yesterday and he told me today he couldn't believe how great it sounded and he has been thinking of it all day today. Experience something before you criticize it.
I wish more preamps had balanced record outs. I use them for my headphone amplifier. A pair of line level outs would be even better. Then you could connect an analog to digital converter (digitizing vinyl) at the same time.
Well, I can afford the book. I will be adding it to my collection and it will have a permanent place on my shelf. It looks like a nice coffee-table book and a fascinating read.
It's nice that you give the price early. That way I dont have to waste my time listening to a review of a component that costs 10 times what my whole system cost.
My Nagra Pre has a tube time counter ! My six Audio Power Labs 50 TNT mono Class A Lundahl equipped power amps all have got tube time counters ! My four Audio Power Labs TNT 833 also have the time Counter installed and shown on a nice display! I got a lot of Faberge like Hardware with the largest collection of these wonders worldwide! They all make the Wavacs sound like kitchen products! The cost of a pair of The Oil cooled 833 amps is a mere $ 175 000 and worth every penny! Dr Solheim Norway!
I still my old SP-14 in a box in my closet. A Reference 2SE is my current phono stage. I have a Pass Labs XP-20 as my line stage, and I've found they work well together. A nice review, but it's always fun to watch, read or listen to myself struggle to explain what differences are heard. Living longer with a piece does however help.
I have always been a big fan of the old style look. Toggle switches, rotary selectors, such as the old SP series. I guess we have to move into the 21 century at some point.
Excellent review Steve. You have a way with words that really conveys the emotion of listening. I'm glad you touched on the volume adjustability at low volumes. I found that some amps and other electronic devices don't put enough steps in at lower listening volumes. Have you listed to the Alta Audio Alecs yet? It's changed what I expect from a 10k speaker pair. Absolutely incredible sound.
Great review. I really wish Audio Research will one day release a preamp with built in phono. 10k for preamp and another 10k for phono is a bit too much for many people, myself included.
O3? Son of Dave? To quote you, "WOW!" One of the best, most entertaining albums I've heard in some some. Thoroughly groovy, start to finish. Thank you for this (and many others I've gleaned from watching your show).
About the volume control--and this might be heresy for such an expensive preamp--but you can get inline 12dB RCA attenuators from Harrison Labs. It gives you what you're wishing for there. I got some to use with an old Hafler preamp which had a hiss, independant of the volume control, which I could cut out completely with the attenuators. Magic!
I'm a current Audio Research guy, I own a LS27, which I love. The rest of my system is the DS450, cd3 mark II and Dac 8 and a PH8 phono stage.. The thing missing on the newer preamp in the ls series starting with the Ls28 regular one is the gain control for low, med and high, which is on the Ls26 and ls27. My next step up will be an older Ref5se or Ref6 preamp.
@@jc51373 I don’t think, you know what you are saying here, did you read the comment. I was specifically talking about the gain on the LS series, not the Ref series, which I already knew didn’t have a gain stage and I never mentioned a gain stage on the Ref series. I was talking about upgrading to a Ref preamp for upgrading, not due to any gain stage. Please read first and make comments later for your own clarification.
i bought the LS 22 but traded it in for a Audible Illusions 3A. much better, also had a SP11, i still think the SP10 was one the best Pre's i have ever heard
So happy you are doing this. I am looking at picking this up to match up with my bryston power amp. Curious to hear your thoughts on this pre! Lets go!!
I built Carfrae little Big Horn replicas to use on a integrated valve amp, then found I could barely get the volume knob past 9 o’clock position. The answer was to solder resistors Across the volume pot halving the input signal. If you have pre and power set up you can put attenuators on the interconnects. More expensive fostex make transformers attenuators that go between power amp and speaker. Lack of fine volume adjustment can be a pain. Bottle head kits have fine and coarse stepped controls for this. Time for a video on volume pots and all the different types.
Nobody does preamps as well as Arc. I had a Ref 3 now a Ref 6. Bliss. Big on detail and spaciousness, thunderous bass power and great musicality. The power amps are another matter, I find them a little sterile and un-involving.
I loved ARC in the 90’s and early 00’s. The LS-7 was a very nice entry level preamp, and then VT-50 & 100 and some of their solid state amps could be wonderful. Real high end products. It’s a shame to see ARC become completely unaffordable to the average audiophile with offerings like this.
I’ve got an LS7. It’s not as transparent as other modern preamps I’ve had in my system including the Modwright SWL 9.0, Parasound JC2 BP, etc. However, it’s a very nice sounding preamp.
The best system I ever heard had a base Audio Research tube preamp combined with a class AB MOSFET power amp. Systems that use tubes for both power amp and preamp have too much tube sound for me. Too much of a good thing.
Get a Pung Foo power cable for it, it tightens up its bass. Make sure it's the oxygen free version of the cable, oxygen softens up the treble too much.
I loved my AR preamp but my remote was also low quality plastic that bit the dust after a too short time period and the support I got was basically, Oh, really? Gee that's to bad. Sorry, we don't have a replacement and we don't repair them, maybe you can find a univeral remote...good luck!
I've never had a Pre-Amp, I once had a silver series DC Integrated amp from Techniques, Liked Vid, this looked really nice, a bit spendy tho Currently using an 8500 series two pioneer amp from 1977, in unrestored all original equipment, only the orange lamp on the power switch is out, otherwise prestine condition yet
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac So true Steve, my father was a union electrical worker for 40 years (new construction.) I recall him telling me around 1966 pay scale in the IBEW Local 1 was around $8.00 to 9.00 dollars an hour. Today, into the $30+ dollar an hour range.
Son of Dave sounds cool. For anyone who doesn't know this already, If you are looking for contemporary blues and don't want artists who are imitations of themselves (or their genre), look for artists recording on Fat Possum. They even have two comps available titled Not the Same Old Blues Crap, volumes one and two. Mississippi blues, a lot of it of hill-country ilk droning, minimal chord changes, boogie and second-line style rhythms. Buy it now, these are old dudes: T Model Ford, Junior Kimbrough, I don't know if Jesse Mae Hemphill and R.L. Boyce, are on that label or not but they are in that same region. For real, you won't be sorry.
PASS Is amazing, unfortunately tubes give you a feeling of air and reality that is slight but very noticeable. I own a PASS Preamp now but my Audible illusions Modules 3B with a very simple design had that air that the past does not
I would buy a hi quality set of headphones. The pre-amp section is the critical part of the signal amplification process. It is the section which imparts colour and textures and tonalities to the eventual sound. This is the case n guitar amplifiers. The amp characteristics and uniqueness is in the pre amp section. The power amp section merely further amplifies these characteristics that emerge from the pre amp. But if you look at a electric guitar sound, about 90% of the “sound” characteristics are generated prior to the amplifier. The guitar players techniques, finger and strumming styles, the pick ups, string gauge etc. guitar pre amp is about 5% maybe 8%. Fanatical audiophiles with huge bank account are often like people who buy expensive sports cars, Porsche, Lamborghini Maserati etc. they usually can’t drive very well. Nothing wrong with that attitude and approach. They are more like collectors and technology enthusiasts rather than people who are keen on the creative aspects of music and composition (sometimes these pursuits overlap) But A cheap CD player or an mp4 player and an expensive set of headphones and use the thousands of dollars saved on buying music or whiskey or going in holidays in Greece or Fiji
I guess you haven't seen his rack of headphones. It looks like he has a dozen pairs or more. And many audiophiles spend big dollars on their systems because the do appreciate the music much more when it is superbly reproduced. An cheap MP4 source just won't cut it, even when played through expensive headphones.
@@charlesgrubbs2101 In some cases that is true. But generally its like the fanatical sports car enthusiast - they spend a lot of money of sports cars but cant drive very well. You can be a audiophile and have modest taste in music. And there are audiophiles that a motivated by the sound rather than the music. People who buy "The Dark Side of the Moon" by Pink Floyd just to play it on their expensive sound systems, but dont like Pink Floyd, or appreciate the music on the recording. We also have the situation where conductors of world renowned Symphonic orchestras and well known musicians have fairly modest sound systems at home, but a massive library of music. It's just personal preference and what sort of hobbies people pursue. I understand that. Personally I wouldn't pay $2,000 for a pre-amp let alone $10,000 or $30,000. For a spatial soundscape at home, I would invest in a nice pair of speakers with a reasonable dynamic range and a reliable amplifier with acceptable S/N ratio. Headphones are a great investment. I have a flat Bang Olufsen Tuner-Amplifier which I bought second hand in the early 1980s with two Jensen speakers. 40 years on, and I still use it as my main home sound system. The only valve technology I possess are my 3 guitar amplifiers. (one of which is a solid state/valve hybrid amplifier). I only just subscribed to this channel and I was absolutely flummoxed at the cost of some of this audio gear. A $10k pre-amp that delivers 2.3W per channel? I decided to look up the price of the XP30 referred to and was flabbergasted at the price tag. I live in Australia, and the price was of the order of a new car. And if you invest in an amplifier of this quality and cost, you will also need to spend a lot of money on speakers and on the playback medium. I see extremely wealthy musicians with modest sound systems at home - that tells me everything I need to know about how to set up a reasonably good sound system at home. Cheers
It's obvious that half of the commenters are clueless to what an audio equipment reviewers job is. Steve isn't here to review only low cost audio equipment {which by the way he has done on many, many occasions.) Their job is to provide a *wide verity* of reviews, including high priced equipment. Personally, I don't care if I can or can't afford that piece of equipment. I'm an audio equipment fan and I enjoy hearing about all price range audio equipment. Those of you who are nay-sayers, whiners and Debbie downers would have a real fit if he brought in Audio Research's top of the line two piece preamp that sells for $30,000. Just stop whining about your financial situation in life, nobody cares.
They have rolled up condoms around the tubes, do they really think that helps? Oh, talking about tubes, I would have loved to know what tubes they are, type and manufacturer. And I assume they are quad matched or else you would have to instruct what goes where (if it is two times dual matched).
@@gmccoy4636 Some people use hose clamps. The idea is to cut down on the tube vibrating, which makes the sound clearer and cleaner, and if I'm not mistaken, also more transparent. Also, to act as a kind of heat sink, so the tube runs cooler and lasts longer. The problem is that hose clamps are too thin to be very effective at either of those things, and rubber rings are just a joke. Best thing I've seen is the Mapleshade Tube Crowns and Halos. I don't have direct experience with them, but they look like they would work well.
hi steve.. luv your videos.. just a quick question since im still new on this. can i set up reisong bayuu tube amp to an amplifier and still get a tube sound?
Yesterday, found an authorized audio research dealer that has a black ls28se demo. They want to move it for $8000. They’ve demoed it in their shop for 90 days and it has about 200 hours on it. They said it will come with the full audio research three-year warranty. I might go ahead with this purchase tomorrow.
When you review something at this level, you really need speakers that can deliver more detail than the Cornwalls. You’re missing a lot of the total potential!
I am from and back in Minnesota. $10k pre-amps are out of my value range. That price does make my overindulgence of another love not seem so crazy. Nope. Both are crazy.
Aren’t tubes expensive? When using in ht bypass tubes always on, seems wasteful and expensive. Tubes may last a yr , 4000 hrs, since tv on more than stereo. Is this a concern??
Steve and all his channel minions like myself are millionaires and billionaires with all kinds of tax breaks freeloading on the poor working taxpayer's titty. We can easily afford all this stuff Robert (wink wink).
I’ve listened to this preamp in my home system and strongly considering it. However, I would like to know how it compares to previous Reference preamps by ARC?
I did a direct comparison between the Ref 5 SE and the LS28SE. I preferred the LS and bought one. The LS28SE was faster sounding, has better features (auto-shutoff, input naming) and is cheaper to maintain because is has one fewer 6H30 and no 6550 power tube (2000 hour rated life). The Ref 5SE had a sense of deeper sound stage but was less defined in terms of placement of instruments.
What’s the point in buying such a complex and expensive volume controlling, function selecting tube sound enhancer without decent tone controls? I really don’t get that.
10 grand for a pre-amp!!!??? Well for me its either the Audio Research Ls28SE or the REISONG BOYUU Q6 TUBE 12AX7 PRE-AMPLIFIER!!?? I'll be honest I'm on the fence at the moment!!???
Hi Steve if u would compare Yamaha to denon x3600 with imax enhanced would u still go with Yamaha it would be for both music and movies and using Dali oberon 5 speakers
Good question! The preamp is the "control center" of the system, it has a volume control, and inputs for analog and sometimes digital sources. It handles initial amplification (gain), the power amp doesn't usually have any controls, but produces the power (watts) required to play speakers as loud as you want. Integrated amplifiers combine preamp and power amp functions in one chassis.
Hi Nicolas, an amp just amplifies a signal that comes from the preamp, the preamp takes signals from other sources and sends them to the amp. A receiver has an apm,preamp and tuner all built in the same box. An integrated amp has a preamp and amp in the same box. hope that helps.
10k and the tube sockets are soldered on to a board? Beautiful piece of gear but I strongly disagree on its value for money. Always enjoy your videos Steve!
