Review: Premium Entry-Level Espresso Machines 

Hi Rob, Wow! Thanks for the kind comment - you got a whole latte love going on there! ECM Casa V is an easy machine to love! Marc

Hi Sean, Thanks for the comment - happy you found us! Marc

hey barbara, Thanks a whole latte for the kind comment! Marc

Hi SM, Thanks for sharing your opinion. From a detail standpoint the ECM is a cut above the others. Marc

Hi Michael, Thank you for the comment! So many great people here spreading a whole latte coffee love!!! Marc

Hi zazuzonker, Thanks for your purchase and sharing your opinion of the 2019 Gaggia Classic Pro. Marc

Hi NvNv, Thanks for the comment. I will! Marc

Hi blue, You are most welcome and thank you for your comment - it's appreciated a whole latte :) What grinder did you get? Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage I bought my brother a Baratsa Encore for his Moka Pot as a wedding gift. He is currently using a blade grinder so I wanted to give him a nice upgrade with my budget being $150. Was the Encore a good choice for the Moka Pot?

Yes!

Hi Henri, Thanks for the kind comments - appreciated and makes me smile! Marc

J Luforge Hi, great to hear from you JL! Thanks for the kind comment. Black to blue! Casa is the star of the bunch for refined quality. Marc

Hi Angela, Thanks for the comment - glad to hear you enjoyed! Marc

Hi dk, If you're happy with the Poemia that's great! But, I have to say it does not use "the same engine" as the Classic Pro. The Poemia uses a thermoblock boiler, has no 3-way solenoid valve (soupy pucks), is an appliance - if it breaks it's not user serviceable, pressurized filter basket, auto-froths so latte art quality fine textured milk is near impossible. Classic Pro has a real boiler, manual steaming, is a true user serviceable machine. Very repairable, parts are cheap and uses a true commercial size/weight portafilter. Marc

Hi, Will do my best and thank you for taking a moment to comment! Marc

Hey John -that's upgraditis! Marc

Hi t, Thanks for adding that. The Silvia drip tray is smaller than the others and you are correct it's shallow so can be a bit messy. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage I've had a Silvia for 20+ years and it's been a great machine all that time. You're right about the drip tray, it's too small and real hassle to empty if you wait too long. My other complaint is the water capacity. It's too small if you do multiple drinks a lot. My water is from a well and is too mineralized to use so I use bottled water. I buy in bulk so I always have enough water to drink and make coffee beverages. That said, my Silvia has served me well for over 20 years but it's time for me to retire it. The steel frame has rusted and I can't get that tray out anymore. Their new model doesn't have that shortcoming. I'm liking the Gaggia Classic Pro for it's price and features. Really don't want to buy another high end machine

Hi Ardy, You are welcome and thanks for a good tip. I'm terrible at level tamping so prefer levelers for increased consistency. Marc

Hi Marty, Thanks for the kind comment! Todd and I love this stuff and strive to provide as much detail as possible. We've been a little separated with the virus but hope to get together soon for more. Hope you are enjoying your Synchronika! Guessing you know it's out favorite dual boiler machine. Also, looks like we'll be coming your way soon. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage you're welcome guys. That covid has many of us having to change plans this year myself included but eh, life goes on right! What do you mean coming my way?

Hey SL, Thanks for the comment. Have this video on a La Pavoni from while ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Y6bXjnUr4fE.html Don't have access to other machines you mentioned but if/when I do... Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage It's the man (and VOICE!) himself! I love the videos, I've been binging them like crazy recently! Thanks for the link! We have these machines up here in Canada but I guess maybe they're not in the US yet! Keep up the great videos and keep making great espresso!

Will do! I hope you’ll pick us for your espresso equipment through our Canadian website! Sorry, not sorry for the shameless plug😀 Marc

Hi MQ, Thanks for the kind comment! Will check it out. Marc

Hi d, Thanks for the comment. No machines touch the Classic Pro on price/performance evaluation. IMO the Classic and the Silvia are very similar in build quality. You bring up the Silvia rusting issues which i did not cover directly in the video other than mentioning the painted steel. When the paint is chipped rust can occur. The machines in this video are very easy to work on if needed down the road and parts are inexpensive and readily available - especially for the Classic. I've worked with and reviewed many Breville (Sage in some areas) products. They offer a lot of bang for the buck but they are appliances. Take care of them well and they can provide a reasonable service life. But, when something goes wrong they are not at all user serviceable. I do not have real test data to back that up. I do have my experience getting inside these machines which blow away the appliance type products in quality of components and build. Marc

You’re right about the Silvia rusting issues - mine is 8 years old and the black chassis was rusting and peeling - last week I stripped the whole machine down as it needed a service, sent the base off for sand blasting and powder coating (It’s now Mercedes Grey as it was coated along with a batch of wheels) - it’s now back together and looking better than ever!

@@benjaminc1816 interesting did you make a reddit post?

durkadur27 no - I’ve taken loads of photo though and plan to post at some point!

Hi Ammi, Well, thanks for the kind comment - it's appreciated! Marc

Hi WWC, Thanks for the comment and question. I'd give each machine 15 minutes with empty portafilter locked in while warming up. That said the Classic with the smaller boiler and higher watts can be ready to go sooner. All can be helped along by running blank shots to heat the portafilter after they been on for 5 minutes or so. Marc

Hi B, Thanks for the comment sharing your experience. Machines with vibration pumps are typically setup to deliver higher potential max pressure than what you'd have on prosumer level machines with rotary pumps. Those rotary pumps have a much higher flow rate than vibration pumps. Pressure difference between professional/prosumer machines and consumer machines is something I've heard Luca Bezzara explain as they make both types. In the end, pressure on the coffee is controlled by grind size. Grind coarser and pressure will be lower with a higher flow, grinder finer pressure increases and flow rate decreases. Only time you'll get anywhere near 14 bar pressure on the coffee is if grind is fine enough to cause it. If you are in the US and would like to discuss in more detail please contact our tech support 585-924-7170

Can't speak for pro but I just replaced my 8 year old classic with the Silvia since my boiler was falling apart and tainting the water. From what I found online it happens with aluminum boilers. Either way really impressed with the Silvia and the power of it

I've had my Gaggia Classic Pro for about 9 months and I'm having a really positive experience. I do see some water drip from the steam wand, but I believe that was due to not descaling for the first 9 months :P

OPV is easy mod, if you can't do that, drink keurig! Also it does not void warranty at all.

@@petervansan1054 Dude, Keurig, lol. Like it’s either, or. Just stfu.

Hi B, Thanks for the question we do not carry the Linea Mini. We are careful in the products we offer and we do carry machines like the LM GS3. In our opinion the Linea Mini comes up a bit short for the cost. Little bothers like no display of PID temps. Marc

Hi DD, That's awesome. Thanks for sharing your opinion! Marc

Whole Latte Love Thanks to you, Marc, for this very interesting channel👍 A video on the various qualities of coffee beans would also be interesting, but maybe it's already here... and I haven't found it 🥴 I’m from Naples, Italy, and I have always used a fantastic quality: Passalacqua Harem (arabica and Jamaica Blue Mountain). If you find it in the States try it...you won't regret it !! 👍😉 Saluti dall’Italia!!!

@@dariodangelo8938 oh passalacqua mexico bar e il mio caffè preferito!!!!

@@MrMarki134 Passalacqua Harem as well...😉👋

@@dariodangelo8938 i'll order it then! I'm gonna try saka caffè first

Hi Daniel, Read through the video comments here and owner reviews of the Classic here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-classic-pro and the Classic sounds like the right choice. You can use other variables to affect your shot but grind size is far and away the most important. After that it's dose weight in that you can keep the same grind size and increase the dose weight to slow down a shot. Doing that is a work-around that works but not the same as changing grind size. While the Encore may be passable for some as an espresso grinder it's not one I'd recommend. As you've found it's on the edge of going fine enough. Also it's likely to get tedious in day to day use as you'll have to grind into the bin and then dose your portafilter. Also no provision for timed grinding. The Baratza Sette 30 is about the minimum I'd recommend (See DevilDog83 comment below): www.wholelattelove.com/products/baratza-sette-30-ap-conical-burr-grinder Hope that helps and let me know if you have any more questions. Marc

Hey Todd, Thanks for the comment! Marc

Hi Anthony, Thanks for sharing your experience. I expect you'll get another 6.5 years and beyond! These machines are like cars and due require periodic maintenance and parts. Nice thing about the Classic it' very user serviceable and parts are cheap. Really set's it apart from cheap entry level espresso appliances. When those go bad they usually end up in the trash. Controlling scale by descaling or treating water with BWT filter is the best way to keep a machine going! Marc

Hi John thanks for the kind comment. We have ECM cups available here in 2 espresso varieties: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/cups-and-saucers?_=pf&pf_v_brand=ECM Marc

Pretty simple. No 58 commercial portafilter on Lelit unless you go to the Victoria at $1,500. Brass Boilers unhealthy. And they are rip off merchants. Only decent one they have is the Marax, Elizabeth and one above that where you have to pay $2000 to get that. The rest are crap and unhealthy with brass boilers. What can you expect from a company that makes irons for living. They are con artists.

@@xlifewritex Wrong, u have 600 euros Lelit machines that comes with 58mm portafilter.

@@splitchy559 Maybe in Europe but not in the USA or CANADA PLus they are all crappy brass which is not good for you.

The Rancilio Silva has a brass boiler as well according to the Internet but you reviewed that machine.

Hi 1, Thanks for the comment. The right machine depends on one's needs. Machines in this video are all entry-level single boiler which come with the wait between brewing and steaming as the machine heats to steam temp. You are right on with advice to stay away from the plastic appliances! Marc

Hi D4f, Thanks for the comment! Marc

Where in Canada did you buy it? Shipping and duties are real high.

@@ReefBrosCanada the Silvia? Consiglios kitchenware

Hi EC, Thanks for the question. Yes, IMO the 870 is appliance build quality due to amount of plastic, proprietary parts, low user repairability. Marc

Hi Alan, Thanks for the comment and subscribing! Marc

Hi Bill, Thank you for the detailed comment. I agree with all your points! I've worked with higher-end Breville products like the Oracle and earlier dual boiler models. They can make excellent espresso but as you mention they are appliance class. Factory assembled in China with low to no user serviceability, lots of plastic and proprietary parts. Your current machine is a nice step up from the Silvia/Rocky combo. I'm curious as to why you choose the Mazzer Mini Electronic? They were well respected years ago but have not changed much. I'll be honest, the Mini drives me nuts with the unsealed chamber threads and the 3 little springs the top burr plate rests on. A pain to clean IMO and when the threads get gunked up a bit jumpy to adjust. There's definitely a point of diminishing returns with machines. I have been working a lot with flow profiling recently on commercial machines like the Dalla Corte Mina and prosumer level machines from Profitec/ECM using E61 groups equipped with their flow profiling device. Amazing what flow rate adjustment can do. An FCD equipped E61 can accomplish what you can on a GS3 or Slayer. If you have not heard about the FCD here's more from an article in Roast Magazine's Daily Coffee News: dailycoffeenews.com/2019/04/10/whole-latte-love-and-profitec-ecm-launch-flow-control-device-for-e61-groupheads/ Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for that link re: the LaunchFlow... "I'm curious as to why you choose the Mazzer Mini Electronic? They were well respected years ago but have not changed much." -- Marc Well, Marc, I bought it "years ago" (Summer 2015)! But I was impressed with Mazzer durability/quality. IIRC, Ceado was coming onto the market about then, and IMO the Mazzer was a better product all-around, performance and quality/durability-wise. And I have to say in the 4 years I've had it, it's been fine, have never felt any need (or "want") to upgrade the Mini. And I liked it having 64mm burrs (which last forever, IIRC they'll go for 660lbs of coffee = YEARS for me!) which were larger burrs at that time -- but I didn't do the "Jolly Mod" (swapping-out the Mini's burrs for a Super Jolly's) -- and $1K was all I wanted to spend on a grinder at that time, given the VBM was $2K...a cost & performance pairing choice. And IMO, the pairing was quite appropriate. And finally, at that time I didn't have that "sophisticated palate" (espresso snob?) some espressoists do -- I still don't! I'm just a simple, uncouth gorilla, so what do *I* know anyway? ;-) But since both the VBM and Mazzer have worked well for me so far -- no complaints -- I'll keep them indefinitely...Well, until the time comes that UPS dumps my Kees van der Westen Speedster at my front door (or kicks the box out the van's door onto the pavement) and perhaps another Mazzer grinder (Robur or Kony) along with it, or perhaps a Mahlkonig. If so, that'll have to do and would likely be my LAST pairing! Just hope I'd live long enough to pay the "ensemble" off! ;-) BTW, Slayers are also nice...if it's too hard to get parts (from Holland) for the Speedster, I may go with the American product Slayer (if THEIR parts aren't also hard to get). Or to keep things Italian, a La Marzocco GS/3. Who knows... One more thing re: appliance class vs. prosumer-class: Applicance machines aren't really designed/built to be worked on and MAY not last but a few years -- then you toss them out or, if still working give them to a friend or donate them to SA or Goodwill. Prosumer machines ARE designed/built to be worked on and expected to last decades. THAT'S a big difference, too. As for Breville, I had heard they don't WANT any "end-user" working on their machines...they want them sent back to Breville for work/repair. I'd rather work on my machine myself...and you can if it's prosumer-class as the end-user is expected to work on it (if need be): Shipping a HEAVY, fragile and $$$$ prosumer machine back and forth to the dealer/importer/distributor is NOT recommended! Not to mention expensive shipping/insurance fees. So work on it myself I will, but preferably with my dealer's tech-support helping me diagnose the problem, then guiding me through the fix/repair via e-mail or phone. But so far, my VBM and Mazzer have had ZERO issues. I think using quality water that ALSO works to mitigate scale helps prevent serious issues, too. Happy Espresso-ing, -- BR

Hi EE, Thanks for the question. That would be a good value IMO so long as the previous owner took good care of the machine - like it's not packed full of scale. The Silvia new runs about 2x the price of a Classic. Marc

Hi JSG, Thanks for the comment and question. IMO the Gaggia Classic Pro is the best value in a machine grade entry-level espresso machine. Here's current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-classic-pro Marc

Hi Christian, Thanks for the comment and question. The Barista Express combines entry-level espresso capability with a grinder in one package. It's an appliance grade product while the products in this video are machine grade. The Express uses a smaller 54mm portafilter which limits coffee dose weight and a thermoblock boiler. In that type of boiler water is heated in a narrow pipe which is more susceptible to problems with scale build-up and inconsistent brew temps. That said, if one does not abuse the BBE and keeps up with maintenance it can provide a decent experience. I do worry about reliability with appliance grade products. Lot's of plastic, proprietary components and low to no user serviceability are long term concerns. Marc

Hi CA, You are welcome and thank you for the comment and question. Pre-ground coffee is a big limitation. As soon as it is ground it loses flavor. But depends on how far one wants to go in espresso. There's a busy cafe not far from my home which brews espresso with ESE Pods (pre-ground coffee packaged in single use paper filter) in a $20,000 commercial machine. Makes me cringe and with my taste I would never purchase their espresso. On the other hand they sell 100's of lattes a day at $4/ea and customers seem perfectly happy with them. With the Classic Pro one can get into espresso using pre-ground (or ESE Pods) so you don't have to have a grinder to start. Then, if you want to make it better down the road like when taste demands or budget allows add a nice burr grinder for an instant upgrade to far better espresso! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Oh I see, Many thanks for your reply.

Hi Robert, It will definitely be an upgrade - especially if paired with a nice grinder! Huge difference in espresso quality moving from pressurized filter basket in your Delonghi to using whole beans ground fresh and non-pressurized filter basket in the Classic Pro. We have a ton of videos on the Gaggia Classic >30, so search our channel for those. Here's one specifically dealing with easy upgrades for the Classic Pro: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3lJ00Rkxk5M.html Enjoy your new machine! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks, and I've been grinding my own for quite a while, mostly for Aeropress and pour over before I more recently got into doing espresso at home, so my grinder should be at least passable for now, but that's probably my next expensive upgrade at some point. I'll check out the video for sure and get some ideas there as well.

@@MetalPirate what were your opinions of the Stilosa?

Hi squib, Thanks for the request! We have a bunch of videos comparing HX boiler machines. Working on one today which features the Profitec Pro 500 PID with flow control. It's a PID HX machine and the flow control device integrated into the E61 group gives it capabilities of far more expensive machines. It allows you to control brew water flow and do long low pressure pre-infusions which help with very freshly roasted coffee by allowing them to de-gas CO2. Alternately, you can hit the coffee hard initially similar to a rotary pump machine (the Pro 500 PID is vibration pump) by allowing pressure to build up before opening flow of brew water. Profitec machines have exceptional build quality with features like sprung valves and stainless steel mushroom valves. Look for that video in the next few days which will include the Pro 600 a reservoir only vib pump dual boiler and Pro 700 a plumbable rotary pump dual boiler machine both soon to be available with the E61 flow control. The 600 and 700 feature best in class steaming power. In the meantime, here's a link to my video comparing 3 top HX machines: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3GUy3ZGfzT4.html Marc

Hi Steve, I do not have a video specific to the Casa V but group head gasket R&R is fairly straightforward. Using a pick tool get hold of the old one and pry it out. While it's out give the group a good cleaning with a group brush or similar. Install the new gasket and make sure it's fully seated in the channel. You may experience a break in period where your PF doesn't clock in quite as far as with the old gasket. Marc

Hi JF, Thanks for the request. Unfortunately I do not have the machine to review. Marc

Hi h, Thanks for the comment. It was about a year ago all Gaggia manufacturing returned to Italy. Marc

Thank you! Cheers!

Hi b, Thanks for the question. I do think the Classic is a better value. I have reservations as to the usefulness of PID in a low volume boiler. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you so much Marc. I have just ordered the Gaggia!

Hi d, Thanks for the comment and question. The hobby here in the US has a manual steam wand. I believe most if not all Hobby's in EU have an auto-frothing wand. The manual wand was a feature we requested from Bezzera for our market. IMO the ECM Casa V is the best built of the bunch in this video. If you do milk drinks you will appreciate a machine with heat-exchange boiler like the BZ10 - no waiting for steaming or cooling down boiler afterwards. You can brew and steam simultaneously! Huge time saver. If you never or rarely do milk drinks then a single boiler is fine. Marc

Whole Latte Love thanks a lot for the quick response! To be honest I’m drinking only 2 Cappuccinos a day and sometimes americano.

Hi LG, Thanks for the question. While not ideal, It's one of the best options IMO for the price. Much better than something like the Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Better choice is the Sette 270 which has micro adjustment of grind size. A new favorite option is the Bezzera BB005. It's a low cost machine grade grinder - Sette is high-end appliance grade. Bezzera BB005 has very precise grind size adjustment. Unfortunately, it's currently out of stock. We expect to have more in about 3 weeks. Learn more about the BB005 here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bb005-automatic-grinder Hope that helps! Marc

Kats072307 thanks for the comment! Marc

Hi David, Thanks for the question. No, the angled PF is not a feature of all Bezzera machines. Here's a link to the 17 Bezzera machines we currently carry with photos available showing PF type for each machine: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Bezzera Marc

Hi Rafael, After finishing up some other projects you should be seeing me a lot more! Marc

Hi NK66, Thanks for the kind comments! I believe current drip tray will fit but not 100% certain. Best bet is to contact our tech support team for a specific answer based on the product you have. You can reach them here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us Marc

Hi ML, Thanks for the video request! Will see what I can do. In the meantime the cheap appliance grade products have the following traits: Lots of plastic in construction, pressurized portafilter/filter basket, thermoblock water heating (boiler), undersized lightweight portafilter. True machine traits: 58mm portafilter, hand assembled in Italy not China, little to no plastic, copper or stainless steel boilers. Hope that helps! Marc

Thanks! Machine grade products = longevity and repairability! Marc

Hi Va B, Thanks for the comment!

Hi k, Thanks for the question. Yes you could but I highly recommend something a little nicer. The breville SGP while relatively inexpensive is slow and tends to produce a clumpy grind at espresso sizes. Also very plastic and has limited grind size precision. If you can swing it I highly recommend the Ceado E5P: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e5p-electronic-coffee-grinder or E6P: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e6p-electronic-dosing-grinder-v2 . Less costly is the Bezzera BB005: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bb005-automatic-grinder Marc

Whole Latte Love Thanks👍

@@Wholelattelovepage overpriced crap

Hi GR, The Hobby does have a nice PF. It's angled so the basket sits parallel to counter when tamping. Quality is similar to Profitec PFs. Those complaining about higher brew pressure don't know the whole story. In smaller machines like the Classic and the Hobby brew pressure is set higher in order to produce a proper flow rate. Those measuring higher pressures are doing so in a closed system which does not take into consideration what's happening during an actual extraction in which pressure is bleeding off through the puck. With properly dialed in grind size brew pressure on either the Classic or the Hobby will be in the proper range for espresso extraction. Yes the Hobby is set to a higher closed system brew pressure like the Classic. Marc

Hi Allan, Thanks for the comment! Have you decided on a machine yet? Curious as to your thought process. Marc

Whole Latte Love I really love the two hole steam wand on the Gaggia and the fact that you can easily replace broken parts. On the other hand, I prefer to use a heftier machine that has some weight and doesn’t move too much. This comes in handy when you lock in your portafilter. Price is also a key factor to consider. You could invest the money in a good grinder. In this range you can’t go wrong to be honest. All of these are beasts and it comes down to your own preferences - both technically and esthetically. I am still debating but I guess I‘m going for the Gaggia ;)

Hi RR, With the right skill/knowlegde and a decent grinder the Classic has the potential to produce a better espresso. It also can produce a much finer milk froth with the manual wand. In the end it's more work. If you value consistent convenience go with automatic Velasca. If you are more a hobbyist pair the Classic with a decent grinder./ Marc

Espresso maker and black coffee maker wouldn't use any extra beans, best idea is to compare the prices of the coffee makers that you can find in your region and factor in shipping costs. I have a Silvia and have found it to be excellent. Like anything you need to take care of the Machines and clean them after use and they will give you a long service life

Hi KK, Thanks for the question. Yes these machines are available in Canada. Marc

Hi PP, Thanks for the question. Lelit is not a brand we cover. We have perhaps the widest selection of machines available in North America and have other brand's machines with similar features at a given price point which our experts feel have better overall construction. Marc

Hi Joanna, Thanks for the question. The ECM is the cream of the crop here as far as build quality - of course the price difference reflects that! The Casa does have the brew pressure gauge which can be useful initially. It also helps down the road in with setting the accessible OPV for brew pressure. Another nice feature on the Casa not found on the Gaggia is a separate switch for the pump for refilling/cooling the boiler after steaming or getting hot water out of the wand. On the Gaggia you use the brew switch for that. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi Mark, Thanks for the question. Lower cost supers are good at doing a traditional cappuccino style froth which is airier than the very fine textured manually frothed milk in a well made latte which you can do on the Gaggia Classic Pro. For the convenience of a super-auto you do give up a little in potential froth quality. It's a little over your budget, but have a look at the Gaggia Accademia. It has an auto-frothing milk carafe for milk based drinks at the touch of a button. When using the carafe milk drinks can be set to one of 3 froth densities. When you have a little more time the Accademia also has a manual steaming wand. So you can froth to that super-fine latte art capable froth. You can see how that works in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wdTlwacRPPQ.html and learn more about the Accademia here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-accademia-espresso-machine

Hi GJ, Thanks for the question. While there are PID retrofit kit available for the Classic and Silvia IMO it's best to go with a machine with factory PID. Retrofitting a PID voids manufacturer warranty. With factory PID one knows the machine has been engineered to work properly. For a seriously good single boiler machine with factory PID and E61 group check out the ECM Classika: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control It's available with and without flow control. Marc

Whole Latte Love That sounds like the best way to go. Thank you.

Hi Sami, Thanks for the questions. It's actually the Silvia which has the larger boiler. Build quality is similar. The Classic IMO wins in serviceability. Easy to work on, parts are low cost and easy to get. For me, it's hard to ignore the substantial price difference between the machines. And, if you do milk drinks on a regular basis it's about twice as long for the Silvia to reach steaming temp. For normal size milk drinks I prefer the Classic. It has plenty of steam for those and is ready so much faster. I know many people mod these single boiler machines with PID. It does make for tighter in boiler temps but I personally believe its overkill on these machines - also voids warranties. Hope that helps! Marc

Whole Latte Love Very helpful! Many thanks for all the details!

Hi LM, Should be available in Italy that's where they're made. We import from Italy to US. Marc

Hi Maurice, Thanks for your comment! Coffee was one of my favorite Italian style blends Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso It's a customer favorite too with 4.5/5 rating in 170+ reviews. If you like Italian style blends it's relatively inexpensive. A blend of fine Arabica with a bit of high quality double washed Robusta results in excellent flavor and copious crema production. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc! 😊

Hi naomi, I was at the Bezzera factory in Italy last year. They are very conscious of the brass used in there machines. All the brass meets safety standards. There's more on that in my video from their factory featuring Luca Bezzera: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KY14ND7_Exs.html Marc

Hi Andrew, Thanks for the question. We have evaluated Lelit machines and at this point we have chosen not to carry. We believe the overall quality of ECM products is better.

Thanks for the reply Mark. Ended up going with the Casa 5 and can’t be happier. Shout out to local supplier platform 9 coffee roasters! (I’m Australian based). Got just in time for covid-19 lockdown!

Hi Andrew, Thanks for the question. All these machines are very reliable if taken care of properly. Far more reliable than entry-level appliance grade products. Have a search on our YT channel for Gaggia Classic and you'll find care and maintenance videos all the way up to a full rebuilding of the machine. Marc

Hi JF, Thanks for the question. None of the machines here have PID. You'd need to go to a single boiler machines like the Bezzera Unica or ECM Classika for that. Those are true machines with real boilers, E61 thermosiphon groups and heavy commercial size 58mm portafilters for excellent temperature consistency. The Barista Express falls into the appliance category. It heats water on demand. While Breville/Sage says they have temp control it's more marketing than real world performance IMO. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply it helped alot ill definitely go for one of these machines most likely the Bezzera Hobby or the Gaggia Classic Pro because i heard the silvia has rusting problems. Which machine would you recommend if im willing to tinker or mod the machine and use it for a long time?

Jaws Fishing Classic pro for the price or Hobby if you like steam power. Either can be opened up and tinkered with.

Hi s, Thanks for the question and I apologize for the delayed response! A couple of comments... What these machines have that the Breville do not is longevity and serviceability. These machines can easily go for decades with proper maintenance. At some point you'll have a problem with the Breville and find out it's not all that user serviceable. Unless you have some very unique skills it'll have to go to a pro for repairs. Cost for that will likely exceed remaining value of machine so want make sense to do. PID does not make it easier to start out with. Goal of PID is stable and consistent brew temp and it works very well in machines with large volume boilers and goup heads heated by boiler proximity or thermo-siphon on E61 groups. It depends on which Breville machine you are looking at but most use a thermoblock boiler. It keeps a very small amount of water heated for use but at some point transitions to heating water on demand when pulling a shot. That heating can be controlled by PID but in most cases it's nowhere near as accurate as PID in higher-end machines with true larger volume boilers. On these entry level machines you will not get PID but it's relatively easy to control temperature and you'll have the benefit of full size and weight portafilters. Marc

Hi j, If you do not have a grinder the Barista Pro has one. Grinding whole beans fresh is critical. However, keep in mind the Breville is an appliance while the Silvia and the Hobby are true machines which if properly maintained will give a much longer service life and are in most cases user repairable. If something goes wrong with the Breville it will take a technician to repair and depending on age and issue it may not be worth a repair. Of the three I'd prefer the Hobby if paired with a decent grinder. Marc

Whole Latte Love, Thank you very much! I’ll go for the Hobby as well

Hi tas, Thanks for the question although I'm not sure exactly what your asking. But I'll take a shot... Once you get to a certain level of machine with accurate brew temps and brew pressure it's actually the coffee, grinder and skill of the operator which produces the "best' shot. You can get this on the Gaggia Classic. Marc

Thank you for your reply, i actually fall in love with rancilio silvia but that gaggia classic come with good results

Hi Jesse, Thanks for the question. The Barista Express is an appliance grade product while the Gaggia Classic is a true machine. The Classic can run for decades with proper maintenance and is very user serviceable. If when something goes wrong with the Breville it's not very user serviceable. Breville repair cost beyond warranty often exceeds value of machine. Gaggia Classic uses a commenrcial size and weight 58mm portafilter. The Breville is limited by it's lighter 54mm portafilter. Classic is easily upgrade-able with precision filter baskets, shower screens, bottomless PF and more. Hoipe that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc! I was almost reeled in by the looks and the bells and whistles of the breville. That's probably why they do that haha. I'll plan on picking up the classic pro when I sell off some of my older home brewing equipment!

Hi PTV, Thanks for the question. These machines are not intended for commercial service. They could be used say in office environment or bed and breakfast. Marc

Thanks fore replying. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GXn4ZFdSk00.html This breville or rancilio sylvia who is better?

You are correct. Just doesn't have a dedicated single pump switch like some of the others. Marc

Hi o, You are welcome for the videos and thank you for the comment and question. The SGP can get you into non-pressurized brewing but depending on how picky you are it may lack some finesse. I think it's a reasonable plan to go with the Classic Pro, see how you do with the SGP and upgrade to a grinder with more control if needed. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage I was so confused reading your response, because he asked about the Dose Control grinder, which is different than the Smart Grinder Pro (SGP). In that case, though, seems like this person would do much better with a Gaggia Classic Pro and a grinder upgrade, ya?

Hi RB, Thanks for the kind comment! Big difference between these and Breville products... These are true hand assembled machines. Brevilles are factory made appliances. Machines are user serviceable with robust components like true boilers, commercial size and weight portafilters, etc. Appliances like the Brevilles are generally not user serviceable internally, tend to have a lot of plastic, less robust components and the Barista Express uses a smaller 54mm portafilter - standard commercial size is 58mm. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. I am sold on Gaggia Classic Pro. Again thank you for your response. Can you please recommend a grinder that grinds drip as well as expresso. I have seen most do one or the other. My wife likes drip but i am getting into espresso. Thank you again. Rishi

Hi Mike, Thanks for the question. It's possible but not recommended. Those grinders do not have the fine control of grind size required to accurately dial-in grind size. You could use them but may be disappointed by the results. They'll also be kind of a pain to work with lacking accurate timing functions and no ability to dose into a portafilter. Marc

Whole Latte Love so what’s the minimum you recommend a sette30? Rocky?

Hi g, Just took a tape measure to a Hobby. It's 13 3/8". Marc

Hi Darkdiver, The Casa V is expensive compared to the Gaggia Classic. It has the additional features with the externally adjustable brew pressure, brew pressure gauge, larger boiler and more refined finish details. Those finishing details do nothing to improve results - except for a larger volume water reservoir and drip tray. The adjustable pressure is a feature few users are likely to use much. The pressure gauge can help indicate extractions are happening properly. But once your dialed in with grind size you probably will not pay much attention to it. If doing a few extractions per day. You'll be fine with the Classic and it's capable of the same quality in the cup as the Casa V. Marc

Whole Latte Love thanks for the reply. I was looking for a machine to upgrade my DeLonghi EC155. After reading your comment and giving it some thought, I decided to go with the Gaggia. Although the ECM certainly looks beautiful and the features are great, Its a bit out of my range. My only worry was the expresso and steam quality. I don’t mind sitting down and taking my time to dial in my shots, actually I kind of enjoy the process. Thank you again for the help.

Hi GamerDude, The big difference... The Breville is appliance grade in build quality. Lots of plastic used in construction and it uses a thermoblock boiler which heats water on demand. Appliance grade products offer short term value at the expense of long-term reliability. They are generally not user serviceable. If something goes wrong down the road it's generally not worth having an appliance grade product repaired. All the products in this video are hand assembled machine grade products. All metal construction, very user serviceable and they use real boilers not thermoblocks. They all use heavyweight commercial size 58mm portafilters. The Infuser uses a lighter 54mm PF. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage I am not going to knock the expert, but I read online Breville appliances can generally last 5 to 10 years (assuming the user takes care of it), while these machines can generally last up to 15 (given it is maintained and serviced). Would you be able to attest to that being a general rule of thumb?

ThatGamerDude9000 Hi I think five years is a reasonable expectation assuming you do the maintenance as directed by the manufacturer the big difference I feel is in machine versus appliance and machine 15 years that’s a very very reasonable expectation and when something does go wrong they are very repairable appliance grade products really aren’t all that repairable so you can’t get in there and fix something if something goes bad. Marc

Hi K, Turns out the colors were very popular and sold out quickly! We are working with the shop to get more but do not have an ETA at the moment. Marc

now that it has been many months since this comment, i would like to ask this question too - wondering when the colored Classic’s will be back in stock now? wanting to purchase a machine, but i don’t want to get the stainless steel one when i could get a white one! haha

Hi CT, Hopefully Santa is good to you! Ceado makes excellent grinders. Like the premium machines featured in this video, Ceado grinders will go for decades! Honestly, higher end Ceado grinders are overkill for these entry-level machines unless you're certain you'll be upgrading to a higher level espresso machine in a few years. If you've got the budget I'd have a look at the Baratza Sette 270 Wi: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baratza-sette-270wi-conical-burr-grinder The 270 Wi is a weight based grinder. It's not the same build quality as Ceados but it's excellent for lower volume domestic use. It makes accurate weight based dosing so easy! Marc

Thanks Marc for taking the time to answer my questions actually that is my idea to do the upgrade in the future. ,but the choice you recommend is very good

Lol, 2 ladies! Marc

Hi Dale, Thanks for the question. In a non-pressurized PF it's the grind size of the coffee which restricts flow to create the pressure of the espresso extraction process. Very small changes in grind size will produce very different results in the cup. One reason why after the bean, grind quality and precise control of grind size are perhaps the most important factors in producing quality espresso. Here's my video on How to Dial in Grind Size for Espresso. A good demonstration in the video of the effect of very minor grind size changes: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jOY7D02n4Cw.html Marc

Hi KV, Thanks for the question. The answer is whichever machines is operated properly using a bean you like with grind size properly dialed in. That's the truth. All these machines are equally capable when used properly. Taste has more to do with bean selection and grind than machine. Marc