I highly recommend the bike consultation service! After combing through all of Steve's reviews and doing my own independent research, I landed on a frame/fork combo. I then became a patron to get Steve's advice on building it up. He did not disappoint in the slightest! It was the first bike build I have ever attempted and he helped me avoid a major blunder, which saved me a lot of money! He responds quickly. He seems to really care about matching the right bike and specs to meet the needs of the rider. I'm loving my bike on the trails! A huge thanks to Steve for offering the service! Take advantage of the opportunity and support great work!
I am where you were I think. I have a frame and fork and am unsure of where to go next though I've a few ideas from previous videos. I think I'm gonna have to up my patronage soon!
@@coreywilliams8568 I did the exact same thing! I had researched some specs and components but was unsure in some areas and clueless in others. Steve helped me navigate the minefield! My kickass build is a testament to the value of this service! I cannot imagine a situation in which you would regret uping your patronage! I can imagine a scenario in which you'd regret not doing it though! Good luck with the build!! While frustrating at times, it is super educational and rewarding. I think everyone would benefit from such an experience.
@@spathkm I really appreciate your comment bc I definitely could use some confidence, and a consultation is just what I need for that. I'm curious; what frame did you go with? I have two, a Ragley Mmmbop and a Cotic SolarisMAX.
Chiming in here as a very happy Nimble 9 v5 owner + Hardtail Party patron There's no doubt in my mind that Steve is a far more composed rider than I am, but I found my Nimble 9 with a 150mm Yari to handle brutal black diamond descents surprisingly well. It's my only bike, meaning it gets taken on every big trip I go on, so when I took it to Copper Harbor in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan I was looking forward to trying it on their notorious black diamonds. Look up Red Trail and Pauls Plunge on RU-vid-- not particularly "shelfy" but very rocky and steep (388' descent over 1.6 miles + 185' descent over .9 miles). I definitely had some "oh sh!t" moments (mostly related to my skill level) but in general I thought it handled it like a boss. Like I said I don't have any other mountain bikes, but this certainly seems like a great quiver killer for a lot of us. Especially if you get a wide range of tires for different riding. PS: I used my "bike consultation tier" on HTP's Patreon and Steve was super helpful with suggesting tires. Ride on, riders.
A few more things... Since this bike can run a longer fork, you could slacken the head angle out a bit by running a longer fork than I did. I still feel like 130mm is the ideal travel range, and i still don't think it wouldn't be slack enough for super steep stuff. For reference, my banshee paradox v3 had a 150mm fork. Now it has a 130mm fork and it doesn't feel noticeably steeper since the head angle is so similar at sag. The sun your fork uses a spring for it's negative air pressure. I think my issue was that I needed a different spring for my air pressure. Their newer models have been incorporating an air negative chamber, which really would have helped. I hope this fork gets that upgrade because it could really be a great option if the negative air spring were better matched to the positive. This channel is my full-time job. I spend 60+ hours a week on it. RU-vid ad revenue pays very little. I'm not trying to get rich, I just want to be able to support my family and keep making great videos. I rely on my viewers to become patrons to support this channel. Patreon is a platform where my viewers can pay a small fee to support my work, influence future videos, and connect directly. I also have PayPal if you'd like to donate. If you want to support my work and help make sure this channel is around for a long time to come, consider supporting by becoming a patron. Patreon is a way for you to pay your favorite creators for the work they're doing. As a patron, you get input into future videos, behind the scenes content, early access, direct messaging to me, and more. I also sell my stickers through patreon, and I offer custom bike consulting if you need help finding your next bike. Patreon.com/hardtailparty.
They are sold out in my size (large). I had to wait because Canfield was going to some restructuring and I wasn't sure if they were really back or were sort of wavering so unfortunately I sat on my hands too long and they sold out in my size so I'm waiting for them to come up with a with a restock and I'm on it. Thanks for the review it was exactly what I was waiting to hear and it just reinforced that which I already knew so again thank you.... great review
Nice review and interesting bike! I currently own a Trek Stache and love it with its 29x3.0 tires. Unfortunately the frame got broken in a crash. So I want to replace the Stache frame maybe with a new Stache frame or a Nimble 9. Both bikes seem to be similar. What do you think? Does the Nimble 9 also fit 29x3.0 tires?
Tires play such a big role in how a bike rides . You seem to be enjoying the single speed experience . Follows a pattern of simplifying the bike experience and making it less complicated . Even a steel frame creates the potential for less problems as its a stronger material and dents cracks and dings are not as much of a problem as with carbon and aluminum . Thats why I put more pressure in my front fork. More than most as my HTA is 69 and going down those steps my fork doesnt dive as much and makes a huge difference not getting stuck on a step and maybe going over the bars . Your wife gave me the idea watching her going down steps on a rigid front fork . With the correct reverb adjustment you still get the benefit of subduing the small bumps at speed . My bike is a plower . Well done Steve . I like the budget mentality and simplifying the mountain bike experience
I bought one of the last medium frames for 2020 based on this review. I hadn't ridden a hardtail in years, but I did it anyway. Once all the parts arrived I had my fun building it, and a few days ago got to ride it hard on some familiar trail. This bike ROCK'S! Thanks for informative review Steve! Mine is built 27.5+ with the DVO fork @150mm and there's not room here to describe how good it really is.
@@petercroce Maxxis 2.8 High Roller on a i40 rim. I have the dropouts @ 415 (fully FWD), there's about 5mm clearance at the chain stays and 6mm at the seat stays. Looks like more room if you push back to 420-425. Worth a try unless you need mud clearance. My tire measures a true 2.8. Pretty sure Canfield says 2.8 max.
Mine is arriving tomorrow all the way from Colorado to Melbourne Australia! Have been on the hunt for ages and pulled the trigger after the first look video - Thanks Steve!! Customer service from Jeff and the team at Canfield has been fantastic. Thanks all, very excited!
Can’t say enough about Steve’s bike consulting service. I was coming off an old XC bike and was not familiar with modern bikes. Steve really helped confirm my thinking on the DV9 and advised on the used bikes I found. One of the biggest things was that after completing his initial survey, he responded with a video of someone killing it on some of our local trails. From that he knew exactly what type of trails I ride. For some reason our local bike shops carry very few if any hard tails. Everyone rides full sus and the LBS all try to talk you into full suspension. Made it very hard to test or even look at a bike in person. 4-5 months later and 300-400 miles I’m loving the DV9. Its a great fit for the steep climbs and flowy descents of our trails and is a blast on everything I throw at it. Rock gardens, roots, flow, so much fun. Highly recommend Steve’s help for anyone looking for a bike.
@@hardtailparty I keep pushing that bike and it keeps responding. It's really helped me grow and develop my skills as a mountain biker. Having so much fun on that bike.
Enjoying the reviews of the budget builds! I can't afford the really high end components, so I love to see what you think about the more wallet friendly parts :)
Highly Recommend the bike consultation! Steve broke down the pros and cons like everyone else, but he individualized the recommendation for my size and the geometry comparison from someone who has actually ridden the bikes is extremely beneficial. Not to mention his extensive knowledge or different bikes on different terrain and what would suit me and my riding location best too. 10/10.
What a great review!!! Your a single speed monster it’s great to see!!! Another gold video Steve, great explanation on the bike and what trails it was meant for!! Awesome job!!! 👍👍👍👍🤘🤘🤘🤘💪💪
Dude I miss my 90’ and 94’ gt Mach one. And my 99’ 24” gt pro series cruiser with gt triple butted threadless forks with gt piston stem and I think I had big fish 3 peace cranks after casing a huge double and forming my gt 3peace crank into A banana. something like that.all were chrome and that chrome frame is soothing to look at. Nothing better then washing your 4130 crmo frame and polishing the the smudges to a twinkling sheen. Great show bud.
Great review! I built up a Gen V N9 back in August and I purposely avoided watching this review until now because I wanted plenty of time to form my own opinion. You really hit the nail on the head - this bike will get you completely addicted to spending hours on fun singletrack. The bad thing about it is my other bikes are now collecting dust. I like the N9 so much that as soon as Canfield announced they were bringing back chrome frames, I pre-ordered another one to build up as a dedicated SS.
Based on Steve's reviews and my riding style, the banshee was leading the way, but being an ex-BMX-er, I wanted to give steel a try. I jumped on the Black Friday deal for the chrome N9 frame and now I have until April 2021 to select the components. I'll probably become a patreon patron of Steve's to properly spec the bike. Love your commentary, your style and your candor about the bikes you ride. I thought I had the best riding available living in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I'm jealous of your trails! Hopefully, you'll be able to do reviews like this for years to come!
I watched both your videos on this bike and I did not catch the gearing you chose. You climb like a beast on this bike and I’m curious what you chose for the round chainring and the rear cog. Thank you for the amazing content.
I pre ordered a nimble 9 on the first batch of frames. I was on a Canfield epo. The nimble 9 is better in every way, And I loved the epo. I live in central Washington. The nimble 9 picks through tech single track and carves turns. I absolutely love it.
I feel like head tube angle is all relative. I came from an xc bike with a 69 degree angle. I tossed a head set adjust kit on it to get it to 67.5 and it felt amazing riding steep terrain (equally steep with rooty shelves). A degree makes a huge difference, If you regularly ride 65 degree bikes, anything less feels noticeably steep but you can compensate a lot with body position and pushing the bike out in front. My secret weapon is not owning a modern long low and slack bike, haha. Great review and super nice, accessible, build. I love the wheel choice!
True! And like Steve says, the intention was more of a well-rounded bike than the slackest hardtail on the market. He is also running a fork at the low end of what the frame is designed for. You get into sub-66 territory with a 160mm fork.
@@canfieldbikes6717 I'm totally with you! 66 is the sweet spot for me but its nice to have the option to just pile on more fork for your specific needs. Ps. The top tube font is a beautiful design choice. Elegant flouroshes on rugged steal... I love it.
Funny enough I went the other way. Started with a Rocky Mountain Growler 2020 which was 64º. It was my first "good" mountain bike. It got stolen and I replaced it with the Nimble 9. Immediately I was like-- "Holy crap, I can actually turn! This is great!" Not to mention the climbing benefits. I honestly feel better on it through fast downhills too-- much more navigateable through tech and chunder. However, the Growler with the 64º HTA was like a rocket ship for fast straight downhills. No denying that.
I recently became a patron to gain advice on my new build and support this channel. Steve always answers back in timely manner. Steve has taught me more about modern hardtails than I could have ever found on my own. Both through watching his videos and consulting with him. He was so excited about the Banshee Paradox V3, I have had one on order a while, due next month. In the wait time I have spent a lot of time selecting components for my first frame up build. I learned things from Steve like matching the width of the rim to the width of the tire. Could have easily got this wrong on my own. Thank you Steve.
Such a great review, I was looking forward to this review after watching the buildup. The component review and the changes u made were awesome to. If your new to this channel and u wanna support hardtail party I highly recommend u do. I’m new to supporting and mtbikes but hardtail party answered my questions and offered unbiased, honest info. As always looking forward to your next review.
Thank you Steve! Another great review. I love how passionate you are about how great this bike is!! Especially when you were comparing it with the Paradox.
Really curious to hear your review of the 2021 Honzo DL. It has almost identical geo to this bike. You didn't love the old Honzo geo, but it looks like they hit the sweet spot with the new one. The ESD looks great but it is too slack for most places.
@@Iggy52 Fair point, I ordered my 2021 Honzo a week after it was announced, it should be arriving in the next couple weeks. Did a couple of upgrades out of the box, bumped up to GX shifter and rear der, M6100 Deore brakes, and I9 Enduro S wheels hopefully arriving mid January.
@@Morpheas001 I did my first ride on the 2021 DL this weekend honestly it isn't too bad as far as harshness goes. The geo is perfect, and the steel is identical. I would bet the steel smooths everything out just right.
I made my choice I want a “one bike quiver killer” so I chose one of the three other bikes you said. I sold my XC bike only to be damaged in shipping. Now I’m waiting on Claims for my money. So frustrating. I would have been able to place an order and support your channel. In other words good to see you don’t have any bad air quality. We need some of your air in SoCal.
My new Esker Hayduke steel hardtail finally arrived. And the ride is ridiculously smooth with the 2.8 inch tires it came with. You should test one if you can. I haven't ridden steel like it in years. I originally intended to buy an Ionic Johnny Rotten based on your review, but the bike company was in limbo forever. The former manager, Scott Wolfe, told me to look into the Hayduke instead. Best advice ever.
@@hardtailparty just curious, Steve, what did you not really like about the Hayduke? did you try the hayduke while it was under advocate cycles or esker? (i've heard the change in tubeset made a huge difference in how it feels)
Maybe you should get the lizard back?! Keep mentioning it often😉😁✌🏼🦎 Love mine... Tänx for the channel Steve, only one I keep waiting for a new video. Greetz from Finland!🍁⭐✌🏼
I just bought this bike used (2015 model 29er in chrome) I know exactly what you mean about the front end, it just wants to get up and go. Going to try to take it out to a trail this weekend.
Your enthusiasm is contagious! It's great (and disorienting) that you can go from gushing over the Honzo ESD to gushing over the Nimble 9. For folks like me in a persistent state of analysis paralysis, it can make decision making a challenge. Keep up the grind. Do you have your sights set on other frames to test? I've been very interested in the Pace Cycles RC627 and the Stanton Switch9er along with a million others that I'll never get a chance to ride. Check out the One Year Review of the Switch9er by PinnedTV on youtube. He has some interesting thoughts to share.
The ESD and this are both fantastic bikes, but they were ridden on completely different trails. This was blues and greens (with a little black diamond), and the ESD was on full black diamond. Here's a tip to get the most out of my reviews and know which bike to get: Listen very carefully to the words I say, not just the excitement of my voice. You might have to watch them a few times to pick up on the nuances of how I describe the ride. I explain what they're good at, what they ride like, and what they don't ride like. A lot of people see the "exceptional" rating, or hear me be excited about a bike and assume it's the bike for them. A bike can be fantastic, but still be a bad fit for a given rider or terrain. I always try to talk about who a bike is good for and who it isn't. If you compare the "who is this bike for" between the ESD and this bike, you'll see they're two completely different people. A lot of people just want a "which bike is best" answer, and the truth is, there isn't one "best" bike for everyone at everything. It really depends on what your trails are like. I would be scared out of my mind to take this bike on the trail that I took the ESD on. This is a fantastic bike for certain trails. It's the wrong bike if you're racing enduro, hitting steep sections, or bombing through chunk as fast as possible. I'd love to get a pace in for review, but it's going to be tough. UK companies, especially, are hard to convince to send frames across the world to the US for review, then pay to ship them back. It's not cheap for them. They have to see value in RU-vid videos and reviews. That said, Stanton gets it. They sent me a switch9er. I'm in the process of building it up and reviewing it. I'm going to hold off on watching pinned's review until my review is complete; I don't want their opinions to color mine.
@@hardtailparty I have learned so much from this channel the last few months. You have an entertaining and valuable thing going. It is great that one guy can get so much enjoyment from such wildly different bikes. It's almost like manufacturers have no choice but to make good bikes. There's a famous sommelier, Keven Zraly, who wrote that modern winemaking is so good that it's almost impossible to find a bad wine. I get the impression that bikes are in a similar state. You have to work and nitpick to find bad bikes. Thanks for the heads up on the Switch9er. It's currently at the top of my shortlist. I can't tell you how stoked I am to hear that you have one for review.
I hear a lot of people say that there's no such thing as a bad bike these days. I disagree, but I feel fortunate to live in an age where we have so many great bikes to choose from.
What a fabulous review - Great Watch! This could have been the bike for me (geared), but I've just ordered one of the previous generation Titus Fireline Ti frames with 67.5 deg head angle (I think it's never been built up.) It's certainly not a Party Guy type frame, but I think it might be right for this 60 year old who has ridden an old style Salsa El-Mar ti frame since 2012. If the Titus doesn't work out I may be checking out this Nimble 9. It's time for me to have a more modern and less 'skitish' frame. 😀
I have a 2016 Fireline Evo Ti. Have you built your frame up? If you have, how do you like it? I bought mine from a friend recently and built it up but haven’t ridden it off road yet.
@@MaukaRunner So far so good. My 120mm fox fork died so for the winter, I'm going to ride it with the Salsa Chromoto rigid for which I rode on the my El-Mariachi Ti for a year. I think the Fireline feels good on my local single-track trails in rigid mode, but will need a proper fork and a dropper for other trails.
Hello! What about Jamis bikes? Is their Dragonslayer a good option? How about a new Dragon in 2021? There is very little information and reviews on the net. Are they not interesting at all?
Really like your reviews, thanks for them. Curious if you ever tried a 26+ Hardtail. I just picked up a Jamis Dragonslayer 26+ and love it. Because 26+ is not very common, would be curious to hear your feedback on it if you could get ahold of one
Awesome review Steve, as always. I'm really digging this bike. I'm currently on a 21 Fuse 27.5 (I'm on a M, 5'8 165lbs, BMX background)..do you think the Nimble 9 would feel too similar? I ride in Northern and Southern CA, rocky tech and DH lifts my favorites.
I really appreciate the reviews of all the bikes and advice! Thanks to you I have made contact with the Bike Bondsman. He helped me acquire what feels like the last purple medium Mmmbop frame for my first bike build. He found me some DVO forks and it comes at 170 travel but I need to set it to 150 or 140. The bike comes built at 150, but remember you saying that might be too much travel and shorter travel is better. Should I go 140? Keep up the great content, it really helps me a lot.
hardtail party thank you! I am a bit of a noob to you tube also so I am not seeing the patreon option at least from my phone. Omar sent me a tentative parts list that I plan to acquire over a few months and I have more questions of course. I still need to acquire the tools also.
Great review, Gotta appreciate the good climbers. Especially since Sedona is mostly uphill anyways haha. Great choice of "easier" trails in Sedona as well.
Great review on the Canfield Nimble 9, Sounds like to me, that it would be a perfect bike for the trails that I ride. Steve on a flat straight track, what kind of speeds could this bike average? Like say if you were riding it. Have a great day and stay safe at the party in the mountains.
Good review, i have a gen 2, was the over built year, so kinda stiff. Been waiting to here how supple this version one. Man, I should have done the earlier pre-order! Now the question, will you try an angle set?
I have this Gen 5 with a Works Components -1 degree angleset and a 150mm fork for a 65 degree HA. This one feels perfecto with that set-up. Still really agile, but a bit more capable and stable at speed and on the steeps. The longer front-center of the Gen 5 (30mm longer than the G4) seems to help with that as well.
@@hardtailparty Thanks for reply. If in the middle then means should be more compliant then my gen 2. The gen 2 was built more like your rsd. My medium frame has smaller numbers then the newset version small size. Yet weighs more then the newer gen frames. Gives an idea how burly they made the gen 2.
great review! all of them for that matter. just discovered your RU-vid channel (late to the hardtail party ;)). I'm nearly ready to pull the trigger on a Nimble 9. Curious how you found the bottom bracket height. From the specs seems really high to me, but I know that doesn't always translate to feel. I gravitate to large BB drop. for instance, I recently tested a Stanton Sherpa but "felt" it rode too high.
Sounds like you really want to try an angleset on this...looks like this is the kind that would replace my BOTE. Honzo ESD would be more of the aggro counterpart for the other 15% of my riding.
So many good bikes would be fun to have a few different hardtail bikes. I can think of 4 I would love to have. With my riding lately and let’s just say lack of time to ride all I want is fun snappy playful days on the bikes. I am at the point of maybe getting rid of my 10 year old full suspension that I love just for another hardtail.
So, you kept mentioning the MiddleChild. What are your thoughts as of today? Is the MiddleChild still your Quiver Killer bike? Have you changed your mind? I'm on the fence between both bikes.
This could be the best hardtail to complement my Ripmo but I don't like the amount of seat tube above the top tube on the large and x-large frame. Small and medium frame are beautiful...
Great review as always! Iv watched you older chameleon reviews but I think it was before your sliding rating scale. Would the chameleon hit the exceptional rating? Thanks for the info steve.
@@stevez3041 yeah, me too. Its a great frame, and it's one of the funnest bikes out there, but I don't feel like it quite has what it needs to be exceptional. Its all arbitrary, but the bikes I put in the exceptional category are truly the exception and have a little extra something.
Hey Steve, awesome review as usual, you do a great job. I'm wondering, do you have plans to try this frame with a 27.5+ set-up? I'm gonna by a frame today (hopefully) and I'm really hoping for a fairly compliant hardtail. How do you think this would be as a 27.5+?
Its about middle of the road complaint. Not crazy soft but not crazy stiff either. I'll bet it's a blast with 27.5+ tires. I typically prefer 27.5+ over 29er on my hardtails.
@@stbeeman Yep, I concur! I went with the DVO fork at 150mm, WTB Kom light i40 rims with 2.8 tires around i9 hubs. So good that I sold my FS bike! Maybe a Canfield Tilt or RSD Wildcat sometime down the road, but for now I'm good!
Do you think there's any chance you will be able to review the vitus sentier? I realize sourcing one might be the problem but I would love to hear what you think of it. Love the content!
@@hardtailparty I guess at present when you can sell everything you can get made, there's less reason to get independent validation. Cotic hardtails sold out in hours..... but then Cy is assiduous in building an online community
Canfield claims it will. Looking at it, I think it might, but only at certain positions in the dropout. I don't think you could fit a 29x2.8 at the shortest dropout setting. That would be the dream.
I am considering updating my 2016 Specialized Ruze to a Nimble 9, but I’m feeling reservation based on one aspect of your review. I love the climbing ability and playful nature of the Ruze on techy, twisty single track, but I feel like I am reaching it’s limitations on steep, technical rollers and down hills. I wonder if the Ruze and Nimble 9 are not even in the same class of bike. I ride enough technical downhill that I don’t want a bike that will have the same limitation as the Ruze, but I wonder if the Nimble 9, though it does not excel on the downhills, will still feel like a step up from the Ruze? I am also considering the RST Middle Child but there is something about the described nature of the Nimble 9 that is really appealing to me as long as I won’t feel let down by the downhill ability. I get that this question might fall under the bike consultation category. I couldn’t find info on how to access this option. Would be super grateful for any insight into this dilemma!
I'm running my N9 with a 150 fork which gives it a 66 head angle. I'm in Colorado with of steep, long descents. I'm used to a slacker enduro bike, but the N9 still feels very confident descending to me while still being playful. You can run up to a 160mm fork which will put you about 65.5 HA. Keep in mind in the review he was running a very short fork. I've never ridden the Ruze, but just looked at the geo and it's a very XC bike. The N9 is not the slackest hardtail on the market, but it will be much more capable than the Ruze without being so slack that it only likes to go downhill.
@@donc.s.8066 Thank you! This is really helpful. I think I’m pretty much sold on the N9! Now I just have to wait for Canfield to get another shipment. My fingers are crossed for maybe late summer or fall.
I'm a big fan of 650b+. I haven't tried it on this frame yet, but I'm sure it would be a riot. I wouldn't judge all steel frames off this one. Its definitely good, but there are much softer frames out there.
Excellent review! Thanks for providing these, as it is indeed very hard to demo these kind of bikes, even living in CO! I bought a barely used Nimble 9 off this review and have outfitted it with a 150mm Lyrik (cuz killer deals on those right now) and it rips! And, I completely agree, it is shockingly "nimble" on tight technical singletrack. Most fun I've had on a bike in a long time! I like it more than the RSD Middlechild, but I may be biased...that one was a friend's bike.
@@michaelgoddard9089 I'm in the American Southeast. Appalachian mountains. The geo is not suited to steep chunky rooty stuff at all. The seat tube is too slack for climbing. Head angle too steep for descending. It's fine on flat stuff but you really don't need 140mm up front for that. Plus it's significantly heavier than the previous km. They're still super versatile however and tire clearance is great. I'm always a fan of horizontal dropouts.
John Harfouch I ask because I just ordered one through the closest dealer to me. It arrived middle of the week and I’m picking it up in the morning. I live well south, in the bottom right corner of Alabama and feel that my Nukeproof scout is too slack for the trails we have where my Ice Cream Truck is pretty dang close to what I think would be ideal. I have the parts to SS either now, but plan is to 29 the ICT and SS it for the less steep trails we have and general tomfoolery and keep the KM stock for now. Thanks for taking the time to fill me in though, I’m a “PartyPace” kinda guy now with how accident prone I am.
That won't change the head angle. I typically prefer shorter offset forks. Even with a 51mm offset I'm still going to feel undergunned on the big steppy stuff.
I really enjoy your steel bike reviews and being that we are similar in statue I find your opinions on geometry and feel to be spot on I have been looking at a Ferrum bikes for a while and was wondering if had any experience with them.
I've been trying to get my hands on one for over a year now. It's probably the most requested bike at the moment. Hopefully we see it sooner than later.
@@hardtailparty the nimble nine isn't measured with sag? Yikes! That would mean the seat tube is getting into the 80+ deg range at sag!!! But it would explain the reported 50mm BB drop...
