Review: The Carlos Kleiber Complete DG Recordings 

Surprised you don't have a blu ray player - How do you watch Andre Rieu concerts? Do you just stream them?

there is another (very striking to my ear) interpretative thing in the first movement of that Brahms 4 where Kleiber seems to have the principal horn play a (written) C6 (sounding E5) in the coda, fourth bar after letter Q in my old score, rather than have the pair playing written C5 (sounding E4) in unison. It looks to me like Brahms being kind to his horn players but I think the octave transposition is an improvement. The ringing quality of that high note contributes a lot to the feeling of "intensity" you get from it. As a youngster I bought this recording (because it was said to be the best) and was really surprised to never hear that thrilling high note on any other recording or performance I heard afterwards!

I too, have Kleiber's Brahms 4 and after the hype my reaction was "It's merely very good" For me the pedal-to-the-metal 4th is the nonagenerian Stokowski's ...now that's a performance. And Dave finally comes clean about his audiophile past, so I promise not to ask any more questions about Dave's speakers, amps, cables, and power conditioners. Great video .

Thank you. I hope you are encouraged to digress more about your concert-going experiences. They should be a matter of record!

Your review was both helpful and enjoyable. It was enjoyable particularly for your remarks concerning audio recording media. To my ears, the compact disc remains the ultimate format for classical collectors. A well-remastered analog recording, provided the sonics were good to begin with, obviates any need for a now-fashionable return to LP vinal discs. A well-engineered digital recording is the next best thing to "being there." CDs are virtually indestructible under ordinary conditions of use. Of course there are still those who claim that there has never been a better medium than 78-rpm monaural recordings (preferably played on a wind-up victrola). Antiquarians we will have with us always. My only qualm is that we CD mavens may well be antiquarians ourselves, as physical formats give way to digital streaming. Your talk was also helpful in that I was unfamiliar with Carlos Kleiber's opera recordings, and your favorable reviews of them spoke well of a conductor whose meager recorded legacy in the symphonic repertoire I have never liked. "Sterile" would be the word I would choose to characterize his famous Beethoven, Schubert and Brahms recordings. Thanks again for this informative review.

"I just don't care"... common sense about audio snobbery. I agree with with you generally about Kleiber. Such a limited repertoire "Greatest Guest COnductor". There is value in a conductor that has a wide repertoire. I mean, someone like Ormandy is so disrespected nowadays, yet he led a great orchestra for decades. Kleiber could never have managed that, musically, or professionally. As for his recording, as a brass player, I love the transposed octaves in the horn in the Finale of Brahms 4. His Tristan (at least orchestrally) I like. Above all, his Vienna Rosenkavalier (video) is world class...

To round out the recorded legacy of C. Kleiber as an opera conductor, we are fortunate to have two of his Rosenkavalier performances on dvd, one from Vienna, the other from Munich, both with outstanding casts. I was unfortunately not able to attend any of his performances of this work in NY back in the 90's, but a close friend who did hear him told me it was one of her most memorable experiences at the Met.

I held the Kleiber DG box in one hand several years ago, and in the other hand I held Bernstein's Mahler cycle with the New York Philharmonic. The price was the same, around 36 euros, and I already had the Bernstein II set with Vienna, the Concertgebouw and the NPO. I took the Bernstein I home with me. I'll get my hands on that Kleiber set some day.

I got to know Carlos Kleiber when first listening to his legendary recording, the fifth symphony of Beethoven, followed by Brahms 4th, with VPO. Years late I bought the DG CD box and DVD box soon after they were released. I found he conducted operas much more than orchestral concerts. His Die Fledermaus recording with the Bavarian State Opera is second to none. And his "Der Rosenkavalier", I believe, is one of the best. In less than 1000 performances during his lifetime, he had conducted the two operas about 200 times! Though his Brahms 4th is fluent and exciting, to me the interpretation may be less persuasive than Karl Böhm/VPO or Bernstein/VPO. His Schubert "Unfinished" symphony recording may be too "lively" to me and lacks the tranquility the music should convey in some passages. It's a pity that he only recorded Brahms 2nd with VPO, as a live concert video in 1991. Now the bootlegs of his Brahms 2nd /VPO (1988) can be found on RU-vid. Besides DG recordings, his Dvorak piano concerto with Sviatoslav Richter (EMI) is also a high-quality performance. By the way, happy new year, Mr. Hurwitz!

I'm not interested in this complete box but might go for a cheap used copy of Kleiber's La Traviata based on your comments. I'd love to see a video on your ideal Verdi opera list similar to the ones you've done recently on Puccini and Mozart.

Thanks Dave! Kleiber has always been one of my favourite conductors. I managed to get his recording of Beethoven’s 5th on LP at a car boot sale about a year and a half ago. Edit: It’s amazing you chatted to Cotrubas! She happens to be one of my favourite singers, and my mum, who is a retired opera singer, actually attended one of her masterclasses in the 90s.

Although I don't like critics that much in general, who does, I have grown to like hearing your opinions. Thanks for putting it out there.

For the last 15 years I listened almost entirely on a pair of Shure in-ear sound cancelling monitors. Fantastic sound, deep rich bass. But just this year I got a Bluesound vault to rip all my CDs into, that pairs with a boom box sized pair of speakers through Bluetooth. It’s a great sound, and it’s been a decade and a half since I’ve listened through speakers so I’ve been enjoying it.

Completely agree about Freischutz. It really shows him at his amazing best. I've never really enjoyed the studio Beethoven either, the live recordings of 4, 6 and 7 with the Bavarian State Orchestra are in another class entirely.

Thanks Dave! I absolutely agree that on direct A-B comparison (even on Der Freischutz), I prefer Erich to Carlos every time. In addition to the Pizzicato ending of the Beethoven 7th 2nd movement, they both play the glissandos before instead of on the beat. The only other recording that I have heard do something similar is the Chailly on Decca.

Hehe I'm 42 and I remember quite well the battle VHS Vs. Betamax. I chose VHS, a matter of quantity, of course!!! 😝 And I think SACD was a very good idea but appeared too late. Now I have a good stereo system, with a cd transport (I have too many CD's) and the only concession to "modernity" is a bluetooth dongle... I remember hearing a Carlos Kleiber Beethoven 6th, in the Orfeo label, played so fast that I remember it made me read my book faster than I usually do!!!😆😅

I have an all in one player and thus can play any digital format. My first digital experience was a Denon disk of something and indeed it was a revelation. I never knew before that Alcoa had entered the musical instrument business. Then came DVD audio. A software nightmare!! Next followed SACD which today actually sounds quite good but just as it acquired its wings, Sony decided not to support it. Now comes Blu-Ray. You really need a monitor to navigate. I find the results mixed. The only bright spot in all of this is that more expensive CD "Red Book" players sound pretty good and many quite good SACDs are being or have been issued by smaller classical labels. Oh, by the way, you can get a really good sounding SACD player form six grand and even better for between six and 12. Happy listening. Love this website and the other Classics Today as well. Happy listening!

The video prompted me to listen to his Brahms and Schubert again. All heat, but no warmth. Ditto after listening to Beethoven 5 and 7.

I love your concert story I'm going to share one even cuz I have no place else to share it.. had just moved to Boston and was dying to see the Boston pops conducted by John Williams so we got our tickets we sat in the balcony on the side in symphony Hall about 10 minutes into the concert we could start smelling chicken and we looked to our right and the family that was seated next to us in large family it all smuggled in fried chicken and they were passing it up and down the aisles amongst themselves chomping away.. yes eventually the ushers did get them and took care of it but I always smell chicken now when I hear the pops

You are a joy.

I have enormous respect for Carlos Kleiber, but prefer other Beethoven 5ths, such as Szell’s (both Concertgebouw and Cleveland) and Wand’s NDR. However, my absolute favorite 7th is Kleiber’s (Vienna and DVD Concertgebouw)! I’ve never found anyone else’s as exciting. I totally agree with you on the Schubert 3rd and got rid of that once DG repackaged the Unfinished with the Brahms 4th and Tristan music. I really like his Brahms (both the Vienna and on DVD Bavarian RO), though there are others I think are as fine, Dohnanyi’s Cleveland for example. The only J.Strauss I own is the Kleiber New Years Day concert on Sony from 1989-quite enough for me! What do you think of his Borodin Symphony 2 with the Stuttgart RSO on Hanssler? I downloaded it, but still prefer Tjeknavorian and Martinon for that work. Great talk, as usual!!

Any chance you can do a video on the brand new giant Karl Richter Complete Recordings on DG? 97 CDs and 3 DVDs.

I can't believe how big that box is given the number of albums in it.

Thanks for the candid and fair evaluation, David. I'm not qualified to talk about C Kleiber's opera performances. Own His DG Tristan (no complaints) and I own his La Traviata and Der Freischutz (haven't listened to them). Don't get the raves for his LVB 5 and 7 or his Brahms 4. While they are certainly fine, I can think of six or seven a dozen conductors who conducted them at least as well. And his Schubert 3 is plain wrong-headed. David, any word on a comprehensive Ormandy/Philly box? Now there was a consistently fine conductor! Best, David G.

Some of his best stuff isn't on DG, e.g., the first of his Vienna New Year's concerts, a Heldenleben (Vienna Phil) that he refused to allow to be released, and the Beethoven 4 and 7 from Amsterdam. On Myto there is a fabulous live performance from Japan of La Boheme with Pavarotti and Freni.

I agree with David: DIE FLEDERMAUS, DER FREISCHÜTZ and LA TRAVIATA conducted by Carlos Kleiber are the best ever stereo-studio-recordings of each opera. Kleiber's TRISTAN UND ISOLDE never convinced me. I'm in love with Solti's 1960 recording with Wiener Philharmoniker playing like gods, the best Nilsson ever, Resnik as a magnificent Brangäne, Fritz Uhl as a real heroic Tristan, Krause the most humane Kurwenal, and a very moving Arnold van Mill as Marke.

I had to look up Sam Ramey, because at first I thought "the guy who directed 'The Evil Dead' was in an opera??"

I do like your refreshing take on conductor icons (and the fussiness of audiophiles). Carlos Kleiber has struck me as competent, but rather faceless (your word) in the core orchestral repertoire. Yes, in opera he could be inspired. I agree that the Der Freischütz recording is really special, with passion and intensity. Who, by the way, sung the principal roles in the Met Otello you discussed? Another conductor worries me. I started out admiring Manfred Honeck especially his Shostakovich 5 and Dvorak 8 and the Strauss Elektra compilation. Now he seems consumed with revealing things heretofore hidden, in a mannered way. I just wish he would play the music in manner faithful to the composer with musicality, authenticity, and commitment. Imaginative shaping should flow from the music, not be imposed upon it. Thanks for bringing to my attention the quality work of maestros such as Constantin Silvestri, Igor Markevitch, Zubin Mehta, Michael Gielen, and Stanislaw Skrowaczewski.

I hate it when an audience applauds DURING the music - this happens a lot in ballet. I once attended a performance of Swan Lake by the American Ballet Theatre (I think) on tour in Urbana, and the audience actually applauded the scenery after the curtain rose - drowned out the oboe solo.

I have seen a documentary that said Erich Kleiber discouraged his son from having a career in music, so Carlos initially studied chemistry at a Zurich university. Would Freud say the erratic career was because of the parental disapproval? The La Traviata is beautiful but!... in one of Alfredo’s arias the final high note has been dubbed. I think it is track 11 on the CD. It’s awful! Not what you expect on a Carlos Kleiber recording. Why would that happen? Has Domingo ever been asked about it? I love the Margaret Price Tristan too but apparently Carlos never approved it. The engineers had recorded the entire performance, so it was edited and released against his wishes. Hence, it was his last studio recording. Outside of the DG catalogue there are some Carlos curiosities out there. About 20 years ago in a second-hand store (I’m in Australia) I found a live recording of Otello in Tokyo with Carlos and the La Scala orchestra. It stars Domingo and Anna Tomowa-Sintow. The label is “Artists, Live Performances” whoever they are. Being live it has annoying ambient noise but overall, the sonics are quite good. And the performance is electrifying!! I only bought it because it was Carlos Kleiber. Cost was $10. Good enough for me.

What I don’t like is the combination of BOTH putting regular CD’s AND. The Blu-Ray together. They should be sold separately. DG seems to be doing quite a bit of this. I was an early adopter to SACD in particular for the multichannel option. Of course,SONY totally screwed it up. I do love a well balanced multichannel recording which, IMHO,does sound better than 2 channel aka stereo.

Speaking of the format wars, there was also DAT, digital audio tape, which was enormously superior to any previous tape format, but quickly lost out to the greatly inferior cassette.

I've been an audiophile for many years. I have a dedicated movie/music room with sound treatments. I listen to stereo recordings in Dolby Prologic II surround. I embraced CDs from the day they became available. I can't stand the vinylphile digiphobes extolling the virtues of inconvenience, surface noise, scratches, etc. inherent in vinyl.

hehe - i just have my modestly sized BOSE speakers plugged into my desktop computer - voila, my 'advanced 'sound system !

'"Merlot" 😂😂😂

hagiographic booklet. I nearly died... so correct!!!!!!

Bluebeard’s Castle and the Miraculous Mandarin are part of a trilogy? What’s the third part?

and yet stuff still comes out on SACD for higher prices... For the sake of completeness, don't forget Reference Recordings HDCD format that apparently didn't last long. My best example for the mess that is (was) SACD was a complete recording of the Beethoven String Quartets with the Prazak Quartet (a pretty good set of performances) on the Praga label. All of the recordings were SACD, some were surround sound, and some were, as printed on the disk, "bi-channel," (Czech stereo?)--all designed to confuse the consumer so that you didn't know what the heck you were listening to.

I can't force myself to listen to Carlos Kleiber's Beethoven fifth again, but here is how I remember it: The performance is aggressive, and Kleiber plays the loud parts fast and the quiet parts slow, breaking up the flow of the music. Typical for DG the recording is not good, shrill and lacking bottom end. Why this is the favoured version among the many available remains a mystery to me.

Too bad Erich Kleiber died just before the stereo era. He was a real artist, make no mistake. I agree about the Freischuetz recording - I don't like Weber all that much in general, but I LOVE that performance. I used to blast the Wolf's Glen scene on full volume at Halloween to scare the neighbourhood kids. That scared the crap out of some of them, who had never heard anything like it before. There are also snippets of Freischuetz Overture rehearsals (Stuttgart, I think) on RU-vid. He nearly drives the players to distraction, but when they actually do what he asks for, the music suddenly comes alive. His Beethoven and Brahms sounded radical to me when I was 25. Now, I've heard so much radical this, that, and the other thing that I just want it to be good - to scratch where it itches. Kleiber Beethoven and Brahms just doesn't do if for me any more.

Thank you for this review and so many others, David. I totally agree with you on the Kleiber Legacy with one exception. His Freischütz is not the best recording, I think. I found it rather strange, actually. The tempi are far too fast and edgy for my taste and the casting is not ideal. Schreier is a fine Mozart and Bach tenor, but he lacks the vocal strength for this role. Janowitz is far better (more relaxed, more beautiful in sound) on the Live Recording from the Vienna Staatsoper (Böhm is conducting, it's on Orfeo in excellent stereo sound). My reference recording though is the Keilberth version (on EMI, from 1958 but already in good stereo sound). It's a little bit old-fashioned, yes, but the Berlin Philharmonic are playing a wonderful romantic Weber without getting sentimental. The cast is outstanding: Elisabeth Grümmer is Agathe, Rudolf Schock is Max, Karl Christian Kohn is a very sinister Kaspar who's never overacting, Frick is the Hermit and you have the young Hermann Prey in the small role of Ottokar.

I find Kleiber’s records impressive but often overblown.

Those who worked with Kleiber say he was a great genius. None of his records are evidence of that.

What a tough job to always have an opinion on any artists. for a Szell and Munch afficionados

Why can't they fix the sloppy edit in the 5th at the transition to the last movement. Jars me everything. Come on DG!

BBC Music Magazine once voted Kleiber the best maestro of all time, and many people whose opinions I respect agree or place him in their personal Top Three. I've never quite understood this and there might be multiple reason why that's on me rather than others who hold this opinion. I don't care for opera generally, so I can't factor in a maestro's pit performances to overall assessments. As a dude in his late 30s, I came along largely after the celebrity maestro era and can only judge these guys from their recordings, sans live performance, and I only know the personalities to the extent they manifest themselves in recordings. Operating in this vacuum, Kleiber doesn't particularly stand out to me in his conservative, core fach repertoire. I'm open to being persuaded otherwise, but I just don't hear it so far. Also, I love The Miraculous Mandarin, but even I'm not nutty enough to take it in every day with my morning egg sandwich. Practicing law with Bela Bartok or his brother would have been fun.

I think Carlos Kleiber was in fact a little overrated in recordings, I mean, HE WAS a genius and a truly great conductor, but his recordings, good as they are, are not really the absolute best; however, specifically the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth is the best recorded and played first movement ever made of that piece (my opinion, but everyone has his/her own taste). As for the rest, I have other favorites. And I strongly agree that the Beethoven's seventh was better done in the Concertgebow dvd. Also on that dvd is my favorite Beethoven's fourth. This reviews are always fun to listen.

David, you say there's nothing not to like about the Fledermaus. But what about the hooting monstrosity that is Ivan Rebroff's Orlowsky? I much prefer the Fledermaus on a DG DVD with a different cast, and - crucially - no Rebroff. Still, the rest of the cast is great, so I suppose if you can stomach Rebroff (and I've tried but failed) then it's good. Agree about the Freischütz and Traviata, and after years of listening to it I'm still not sure about the Tristan. The orch recordings are good to have, but I find it hard to get excited about them on their gazillionth reissue (apart from the Beethoven 5). My live experience of him (at Covent Garden) was unforgettable - Elektra in 1977 with a fantastic cast. His live opera performances (all bootlegs, but some in respectable sound) are probably the Kleiber recordings I listen to more than any others.

I wonder if the CD is the very last viable tangible music recording medium. Is there a reason why music recordings shouldn't just be downloadable files any more? BlueRay is not better enough to displace audio CDs. So many of the downloadble files and streaming sound meh or worse, though. I don't think I'm an extreme audiofile, but if live is filet mignon and a CD is a good burger, most streaming is Captain Crunch.

It's arguably an unimportant thing, but I don't know of another conductor who is as fun to watch as Carlos Kleiber. Maybe he would have had it in him to be a dancer.

I did like his Beethoven 5. Than, following your recommendation, i bought Széll 1965 Beethoven 5. Széll is so intense that Kleiber is really a sterile version of it.

What's not to love is Ivan Rebroff as Orlofsky! Yeesh.

It's a pity that he never recorded Beethoven Eorica. I do believe he would have been great !

He's a great conductor but I wonder if he wasn't so telegenic would people gush the same way?

Most of the old models of Blu-ray players can't play newly produce Blu-ray Audio, don't waste your money if your Blu-ray player is older than 10 years.

If you listen to the music format dont matter.