Review: Three Boxes of Orff (Oy!) 

“Orff, Wuff and Barff”... At this point I was no longer sure whether I'm watching a regular video of yours or another Tinnitus Classics episode.

I cannot thank you enough for introducing me to the magnificent De Temporum Fine Comoedia. A personal, compelling and frightening work. I started listening to it out of curiosity and I was mesmerised.

The opening laugh was priceless.

I actually love Orff's music! I'll gladly take those boxes if you don't want them!

Much hilarity in this one! The fact that you can sing snatches of "Der Mond" and "Die Kluge" would indicate that you find them as much fun as I do. NOTE: for anyone who likes "Carmina", you'll LOVE "DER MOND"..the next work after Carmina that Orff wrote, and thus, the most similar. It's a ton of fun, complete with zither, wind machine, accordion, organ, HUGE orchestra, chorus singing through megaphones, etc...and lots of jolly, folksy tunes, many of which are sung in the underground catacombs by the recently-awakened dead! Card games, bowling, drinking, debauchery (including a new setting of Carmina's "Floret Silva"), all of it interrupted by a MASSIVE COMET that St Peter hurls down from Heaven. GET THE EMI/SAWALLISCH RECORDING (1958)..voted one of the Best Recordings of the decade: Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus! HANS HOTTER as St Peter! It's a joy. And the little C Major glass music-box at the end with the snoring of the dead in the background is not to be believed. The same forces performing DIE KLUGE (with Gottlob Frick, Liz Schwarzkopf and Hermann Prey) is also great...but already (1942) Orff was veering off into the "Spoken stage play"-with-music thing, and, yes, there's WAY too much chatter. As a co-production between Chicago Opera Theater and Grant Park, I had proposed a concert production of "Der Mond" (in 1999) to celebrate the 30th-anniversary of the Moon Landing...but the management nixed it as too expensive, and containing too many quiet passages (but they are gorgeous). I also played percussion in a pathetic, laughable production of "Antigone" by a little start-up company in Chicago; it was the absolute nadir of my performing career. They had ONE flute (not 12, as Orff wants), ONE oboe (not 12), TWO pianos (not 6), ONE double bass (not 12...and the guy never showed up after opening night), and THREE percussionists (including me). BUT...the conductor actually RENTED a special Orff "STEINSPIEL" from Germany...the set of smooth, round stones (a la David and Goliath??) that are tuned and mounted on a stand (like Crotales). And that was the only memorable thing about the production. The bad old days. I've since sworn off Orff. LR

I TOTALLY fell out of my chair giggling watching this, you are brilliant! Can't wait to watch more of your fantastic work!

"De temporum fine comoedia" was basically my soundtrack at the start of COVID, so despite its noisiness/lack of music I feel a strong attachment to it.

Thanks for doing this particular bit of dirty work for us so we don’t have to. Orff, Barf, and Woof sounds like my 21st birthday party.

Great review! I own Carmina by Jochum,one of my favourite Cd of all times.For those who would like Trionfi conducted by Kegel i share with them that both Cds can be purchased separately from the Berlin Classics Orff Edition because Brilliant Classics made available both of them at affordable price in 2015. That's all folks

How orfful

Orff wrote a lovely and evocative choral work, for children, called Menschen und Wind recorded by the Tölzer Knabenchor on Harmonia Mundi well worth seeking out (1973).

I took a chance on a used Orff disc I picked up for a few bucks "Veni Creator Spiritus - Cantatas & Choral Pieces" un Wergo, What was interesting was that Orff actually did a Brecht setting. Thar was the only thing interesting about the disc. Not the setting itself, the fact the setting exists.

LOL I have to hand it to you and Pipo on this one. You're confirming my suspicions about the rest of Orff. Carmina Burana is fun to perform (maybe more fun than listening to it) I did it in grad school.

The recordings of the MUSICA POETICA, are often charming and delightful. These are the Schullwerk compositions. Or took a lot of the credit for them although a great deal of them were composed by his colleague Gunild Keetman. They were designed as models for children to use as a basis for their own composition and improvisation. But many of them are quite delightful, and much more in the vein of Carmina. I agree with you that much of the music after Carmina is simply not worth listening to. But, I am glad you mentioned his educational work. But in typical chauvinistic fashion, a large body of work by a female creator is credited to Orff.

Thank you, David, for your review. Does the first box set (DG) have a booklet with full texts of Antigone, Oedipus, Carmina Burana, etc + translations into English?

12:26 Laughed uncontrollably at this!

Finally, we disagree - and that's the spice in the case. Orff is in my opinion a far better composer, but it's important to SEE the works on stage. I know that especially the greek tragedies are boring, if one just listens to them without the stage. Moreover, Orff wasn't really a nazi - it was a similar case as Shostakovichs. Orff had a jewish grand-father, and he has composed before "Burana" texts by Brecht and Werfel. Orff was a coward - but as Brecht said: What a bad time, when artists shall be heroes. The thing with the lie about his part taking in the resistance is also wrongly by Michael Kater. Kater, otherwise well informed, believed false rememberances and corrected them in a TV-biography. What happened, was this: The guy, who introduced Orff to bavarian folk music was Kurt Huber. When the nazi took over, Huber lost his employments. Orff managed to get a job for him with Schott. Together, they published bavarian folk music. Then Huber was imprisoned and executed. Orff feared to get involved, and coward that he was, cut off all connections with Hubers family. When he was interrogated for de-nazifacation, he said that he was a friend of Huber (which was true), but he never claimed to be a member of the resistance. This found out the austrian historian Oliver Rathkolb, not a music historian but a specialist for the time of the NS-barbarians. Now the music: Orff believed that spoken language and sung language are no opposites, if the spoken words have the quality of sound. I know that this is strange, but it explains, why Orff used latin and greek and bavarian dialect and the strange Hölderlin: He didn't want that the viewer understands the MEANING of the words, he wanted that the viewer understands the SOUND GESTURE of the words. Thats why there is declamation, screaming, yelling aso. Okay, I'm no missionary, and I have no intention to orffinize people. About the recordings: Kegel's are the best. "The Moon" and "The Clever Woman" are fantastic (the "Moon" being a better work than "Carmina burana" in my opinion, the "Woman" has too much talk), and the Trionfi-trilogy is gorgeous (and in my opinion, "Catulli" is the 2nd best work of Orff's after the "Moon"). Kegel with his fast tempi is the only one, who manages that the "Trionfo" is a true eruption of rhythm. Jochum is also very good, because he knows the humanistic background of the works, and the sound of the orchestra in "Carmina" and "Trionfo" cannot be surpassed (except by Kegel, who has more rhythmic drive also in "Catulli"). "Antigonae" and "Oedipus" have the problem I spoke about: They are hopeless without a staging, and so is the talky "Bernauerin". Besides, the rhythmic speaking with percussion accompaniment has nothing to do with Stravinski, I'm sure that Orff knew his Milhaud ("Choephores", "Christophe Colomb"). The Eichhorn-Box is the weakest of the three. One get's a complete "Bernauerin" (without needing it, half of the work is just spoken), the Christmas-play is wonderful when staged, otherwise boring as hell, and so is the Easter-play. "Astutuli" is rhytmically read by Orff - but this is not the original version, which is nearly through-composed, but just with rhythmic speech and percussion-accompaniment. That all said, I think that Orff can be fun even besides "Burana", in fact in "Catulli carmina" and "The Moon" - and you'll find it best with Kegel. I like that we agree in this totally. Just one fun fact about Karajan and Orff: They hated each other starting with "Antigonae" in Salzburg. 1st act: Karajan had settled a begin for his evening performance, and therefore "Antigonae", which started in the afternoon, has had to be cut. 2nd act: Karajan wanted to conduct AND stage the "Trionfi" in Milano, but had too less time to do all. Again, Orff was cut because of Karajan, who eliminated the parts with percussion accompaniment from "Catulli" and many of the repetitions in "Trionfo". 3rd act: The DG wanted to reconcile Orff and Karajan and arranged the "Temporum fine comoedia" in Salzburg. Again, Karajan wasn't interested in the music, just in the staging. Orff proposed to replace Karajan with Heinz Mende, which was the final affront. And then followed the incident you mentioned, a revenge by Karajan, I'm sure.

David Hurwitz, DIE KLUGE and DER MOND are not " Bavarian Comedy" but two of the ferry tales publicated long long time ago by the famous GRIMM brothers.

You are right that Catulli Carmina is lots of fun to sing. I had the opportunity to do so as an undergrad, and it was a blast, especially when we got to sing some of Catullus' more salacious lines ("O tuae mammulae, mammulae..." etc. ad nauseum in typical Orrf fashion), all in Latin, so we had no fear of repercussions from campus watchdogs , even though attitudes were still somewhat more strait-laced in those days then they later became. There is one other Orff box Pipo might want to check out - Membran issued a 10-cd budget box entitled "Carl Orff - Magie und Rhythmus" , all recordings except one dating from the Fifties, though the sound is generally quite decent. It contains and earlier traversal of the Trionfi cycle with the Bavarian Radio Symphony and Chorus, and some soloists that connoisseurs of vintage Wagner and Strauss recordings might remember (Paul Kuen Annelies Kupper, Kurt Boehme). It also has two classic recordings of , Der Mond and die Kluge,with Sawallisch and a fabulous cast, incl. Schwarzopf and Frick in their prime). It also has Antigonae with Sawallisch and Oedipus der Tyrann with Leitner, and some more legendary singers (Martha Modl, Fritz Wunderlich) - too bad even they can't breathe much life into these two snooze-fests. I guess you have to be Deutsch...Oh yes, there's one other bonus disc - a second Carmina Burana from the late 1990's, with the RPO under one Richard Cooke, and some soloist which I doubt many of us from across the pond have ever heard of. Why? A mixed bag, then, but not entirely without interest to a die-hard Orffian, if there are any such out there...

I can think of another piece of music with a bowling alley in it. Well, tenpins, actually: the "Rip van Winkle" movement of "Hudson River Suite," by Ferde Grofé. I'm not saying it's a GOOD piece of music, but there it is. Mozart's K. 498 was, of course, a piece of music in a bowling alley, but that's not the same thing.

nice video! though I disagree about De Temporum Fine Comoedia , to me it's a sophsticated , arid version of Orff's choral+orchestra work, but it's dramatic and impressive and not spoken-word like many of his post-Trionfi stuff, I like it!

Pipo's reviews of the other Orff works pretty much capture my reaction to Carmina Burana beyond the O Fortuna opening movement. I had a recording of it at some point, listened to it once or twice and traded it in.

Well, thanks. You pretty much confirmed my suspicions. I was mulling over getting the DG box...but I won't. Life is short.

Pipo has spoken...long live pipo

Orff's version of Monteverdi's L'Orfeo (Orpheus he called it) is pretty fun if you're in the mood for a shortened German version of that. Frankly, and this may be controversial, I think Orff's version works better dramatically.

The second Orff disc I owned was Tragedy for the End of Time. It was Orfle.

At 7;53, I'm sure you meant "..the purrr-fect response..." (Pipo is a very astute kitty).

Orff has much more of a following in Germany such as at the Andechs Festival and there is an Orff centre and museum but it is all just in Germany. There are DVDs with English subtitles of die Bernauerin, Gisei, Oedipus, Antigonae and Astituli. Der Mond and die Kluege would be great on DVD. The CDs tend not to have the texts and there's lots of dialogue in some of the works such as the Easter and Christmas works. . The Tony Palmer film O Fortuna is quite interesting. Some of the Schulwerk arrangements are beautiful. I'll investigate Woof and Barf. Which of the boxes have any texts in English ?

Even "Carmina Burana", which is kind of fun, has remarkably little music in it. "Catulli Carmina" initial scene can be somewhat rewarding if you're following the (quite kinky) text. But it becomes unbearable after 10 minutes.

Even the sound of the title "three boxes of Orff" is funny.

Oh yeah, Prometheus! I listened to Kubelík's recording on Orfeo because I had heard it was in ancient Greek and was kind of interested (especially since I took it in high school and have a bit of a soft spot for it). It was... an experience. Good for once, but I don't think I'm going to pay it much more attention for the rest of my life.

I agree that the music in Orff's plays is quite slight.

The finale of De temporum is a fugue, an youthpiece from Orff. This piece is nice, and it was written for 4 violas da gamba. Karajan wanted to use modern instruments, but Orff was upset with that idea. The finale was a separate recording. And... the work is indeed very very very bad.

Mechtilde Barf? Tell us more.

"... something called an organon which I think is a Qanon with a keyboard attached to it ... " That is a tragedy!

And he was a guy that at 18 practically nailed Debussy in an japanese opera called Gisei. Then he commited the mistake to destroy and left unpublished everything he did before Carmina Burana. Such a mess.

More like a part-of-a-work one-hit wonder. Aside from CR's opening movement, does anyone even recall the rest of it? I've never made it all the way through without falling asleep.

The review brought to mind Pfitzner's rather crude joke about two of his fellow composers: "Ekg mich im Orff" (as it can only be characterized as scatological, I will only deliver half of a translation, lest I will be taken down for obscenity or forever banned from this channel: 'Eat my ...')

I must confess, I can't abide Carl Orff, and I refuse on principal to have anything to do with his music.