Richard Carrier | Mystery Cults & Christianity (2019) 

What makes Richard so acceptable is he never tries to convert the audiences but let's them digest his findings which are without doubt overwhelming to reflect their own religious opinions and hopefully refute the story's of pure Revelation built on sand and bring faith into a more modern , practical and caring society, allowing Mankind to survive together without the shackles of religion

Always solid info from Richard. His intelligence and ability to clearly articulate his subjects are amazing.

Although I came to this lecture four years late,it seemed to me to be as refreshing this morning as it was then.Thank you.

It’s amazing how active gods are in various ancient books, but nothing since. Maybe it's a camera phone to blame?

Dr Carrier is one of the best

The Egyptians had mystery schools way before the Greeks, they traveled to Egypt to learn from them

Great work, Dr. Richard Carrier. Christianity nakedly dissected.

With Richard's great work and scholarship we have almost uncovered the whole truth.

Brought to you, by all the Gods, living or deceased who contributed to this video. Any relation to any Gods living or deceased in this video, will be disavowed. (Disclaimer).

The archetype of the Higher Self. The Hero with a thousand faces.

Aw man, so bummed I missed this, had no idea he was in NYC for this event! What a great explanation about the aspects of these mystery cults!

Thank evolution for Richard Carrier.

So cool to see this presentation by Dr. Carrier. Thank you so much for your work in helping connect the dots for so many people.

As a species, if humans were able to feel unconditional love towards all other humans, it would not be possible to worship an image of a judge-mental god.

Robert Price and Richard Carrier are my top two experts on digging about the historicity of Jesus. Imagine the amount of time doing the research and how difficult it has always been to get sources about the subject. I really admire their dedication regarding their research.

Excellent presentation by Dr. Carrier, & great video production by this channel. Job well done.

I appreciated this lecture and also the intelligent questions/discussion from the audience. This is the best of humanity.

Soo many new rabbit holes to fall into

I know I'm in a good place when I start a video and immediately learn something. Ahhh. I love it.

Audience asking good questions

I would like to point out that the divine sacrifice/resurrection motif was also in the New World Mayan religion as well.

I always end up looking at the faces of the people attending a lecture like this and wondering more about them than anything that was said by the lecturer. That's why I'm an advocate of strict lecture facial limitations.

Yes, Dr Carrier is on point regarding Islam as an earlier form of Christianity. Authors such as Stephen Shoemaker synthesize this perfectly. It's shams all around!

God I love Richard Carrier

Im one of the few Christian that love hearing this truth, thanks Richard sorry i meant im not a christian

glad to see that he has refined his talk about the historicity. love the 4k video quality and videography! excellent! thank you, guys! subscribed!

yayuwah bless you Dr. Richard to discuss this , mysterious cult, and Christianity secrets

One thing is very clear to me. There are many ideas about many gods. Finding a new angle is the key to success.

I do believe that Robert M Price has pointed out from peer reviewed material that the Eucharist is indeed very similar to Egyptian and Greek mystery religions, where they consume the God, as a symbol of that god being alive in them, or them alive in him.

A particularly telling session, relegating Christianity to its correct place among any number of other co-religions, but raised artificially on the shoulders of the LATEST conquerer nations (especially the USA) to be above all others... but at heart, just another mystery cult, and now in its correct place as demonstrated so comprehensively by Richard. This really does take you back BEFORE you were raised a "christian", so graphic is his placement of christianity in its correct category. An atheist for quite a few decades, this talk still had quite an impact for me. One simply sees the issue with renewed (and blatant) clarity.

I think you will find that 'patheon' actually refers to the whole trials, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. It is probably best translated as metamorphisis

49:30 -- This guy's point is a good one. Consider that the "Iron Age" isn't a period of 1000 years, but something like 2000 if we include India, and notice that it took almost 1500 years for the technology to migrate westward.

Amazing speech. I always appreciate this sort of analytical ideas.

Just amazing.

Great watch in 2023.. gotta love a slide with the heading Your Basic Mystery Cult. Great modern teachings coming from this guy.

Very good. Dialectics tells us that a synthesis of views should result from fair debate. One can expand the frontiers of understanding without being offensive, etc.😎

Thank you for your valiant & rare insights to our culture - also a nice step up from Dr Bart Ehrman

thank you

Hi from Texas. Great video, I wish you would share more!

Important peice of video. Carrier's work will outlast anything made by theists this century.

Oh, I found it. Its perfect now.

This guy missed a key phrase: “If we could just keep the questions until the end, that’d be great.”

learned alot thanks for a great program

So over chime in guy behind him, Let the dude give his talk, geeeez

The utter state of confusion a vastly different culture can indelibly leave on a lesser, primitive culture post contact. What's more, they are many and each god requires faithful followers, gods politics is a thing and humans lose either way, for none of them care about the lesser creatures.

I love how his little jokes absolutely bomb every time keep them coming. I also like how he never attacks the philosophical or spiritual aspects just the history of how religions evolve.

What interested me was a saw a huge book called DEVI in the library I started looking at. It had one picture of a statue I think it was, showed Devi (mother goddess) and 2 men. One was offering her bread and one was cutting himself to let a blood offering. I couldn't help but see it was kind of a reverse communion!

Im an atheist that married into a Mormon family. Is there a reputable scholar that analyses the book of Mormon in this way. I know the theology is a bit batshit but I'd like to have some kind of appreciation for it. This lecture was very insightful and i look forward to reading his books.

I love Dr Carrier's work. I have a questions. If baptism, resurrection, eternal life, the holy trinity, the immaculate conception, heaven & hell, holy commandments, and other religious concepts are well documented in Kemetic (non-Greek Egyptian) culture, why do Bible scholars ignore this connection? Being that the Step Pyramid of Dsojer mentions NTR & the NTRU (circa 3600 bce conservatively), and Abraham father of the Hebrew religion could not have existed prior to 1800 bce, conservatively, why is the contribution of this extensively documented African theology routinely ignored? After all, Moses "...trained in all the wisdom of the Egyptians (Acts 7:22). It seems that the Hebrew culture came into existence during the time the Hyksos ruled KMT circa 1600 bce (Kemet's 15th Dynasty). Remember, Paul said he went to Arabia then Damascus were it seems to suggest he had his gospel visions (Galatians 1:17). The Persians didn't defeat the Egyptians until 525 bce. Pythagoras (circa 570-490 bce) is said to be the first Greek to bring the knowledge of the Egyptians to that nation. Greece didn't conquer Egypt until 330 bce. Rome conquered the Greco-Egyptians circa 30 bce, and the savior cult had been well established for 300 years. Paul did not come onto the scene until circa 30-50 ce. It seems like an educational-racial bias is still in play that tried to place Hebrews (Israelites-Jews) as the first people to have a text that defines monotheistic religion, but the 10 commandments of Moses appear to come from the so-called "Negative Confessions" or "42 Declarations of Innocence" that date back to at least 2600 bce." These would have been in existence well over 1000 years before Moses was born.

I'm going to buy both kindle and hard copies of all this man's books and proudly add them to my library! :)

Interesting talk, thank you

Interesting! Would not the milk/solid food terminology invoked at 41:31 imply that in early Christian practice there were two levels of initiation in place, one for the Gomers who were just there to feast and get drunk and another for the few who actually got the joke? I know this is still true for the mystery religion of Freemasonry, having met a leader (a Secret Chief) of the higher initiation at a Lodge open house some years ago. When we spoke, he quickly recognized I was someone who had access to the secrets of the higher order and talked a little too freely about the truths of Inner Freemasonry, truths that would have scandalized the unwashed nabobs before me who were marching around to, of all things, "The Teddy Bears Picnic". His sly smile showed his contempt for the ritual that was in progress, and our discussion had nothing to do with the lower hijinks, being mostly focused on goddess-worship of the preChristian era. Freemasonry is a surviving pagan mystery religion with something of the Inanna cult about it... this is what the Knights Templar encountered in Muslim Palestine during the Crusades, probably through contact with the Sufis. The world is crazier than we'd like to think! OM!

Ricard good program i am lerning frome all youre comments and others i am caming out the closetand i want to. my family but is to difficultwith out knowlage thankyou for your program

So the real question - in terms of the origin of “religion” and/or the growth and development of “religions” - at least to me, is: If religions influence each other, in the ancient Near East especially, where/how/why did the Innana “cult” come from? Or any of the Myths and stories from Old Sumeria?

Every christian needs to watch this and learn from it!

i always suspected that Islam emerged from some form of Judaism. the similarities in major practices between the two religions alone are just undeniable. but with Carrier’s hypothesis about an early Jewish-Christian sect, pre-Nicean, being the precursor to Islam is just too mind-blowing to ignore.

This is amazing.

Great! The next step should be connecting this condensate to the human psyche and its archetypes

In Matthew 13:11 He said to his disciples... "It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given". So clearly, only selected people are to be given the secret information. This shows that Christianity is not meant for everybody.

The fulcrum for all beliefs is the belief that man has an eternal self, an immortal soul. You will never meet a conspiracy theorist who doesn't wholeheartedly believe that he has an immortal soul.

Every interpretation is another crossroad, and the distinction that the world at large failed to perceive was between 2 opinions: the "First Adam, earthly", and the "SPIRITUAL ONE" . Paul led Western Civilization into the captivity, whether you see it or not right now or not, that has continually failed to regard the Spiritual Adam as even existing. Rome's law stated clearly, "IF ANY WANTS TO BE DECEIVED, LET HIM BE DECEIVED".

Where Carrier misses it, is how all these mystery religions are integrated into the zodiac. For instance Jesus represents Pisces and the stories follow the sun through the zodiac. We know that regarding the universe, there was no "beginning", or time related "creation", however our solar system did have a creation, and hence the focus on the Sun as the giver of life. The "Precession" is taught through these religions. There is a lot of science being taught, but disguised. So mythra sleighs the Bull, Taurus. Jesus says "I will be with you until the end of the age", the age of Pisces. Mark 14:13 "So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him.", meaning the end of Pisces and the beginning of "Aquarius". There is a LOT more teaching going on than what Carrier picks up on:) Pesher = Numerology.

Very interesting

...would love to hear your talk wothout all the interruptions ...

Mystery cults, Gnosticism, and Hermeticism all sound very similar. Hermeticism is associated with the occult, Gnosticism with gnosis aka secret knowledge, and mystery cults with mystery. Hermeticism originated in Ptolemic (i.e. Greek ruled) Egypt, as well as the cult of Serapis, which later in Roman times would become the mystery cult of Isis. Having said all that, Carrier mentioned in this video the connection between agriculture/farming cults and mystery religions, which makes me wonder if there is a link to drugs/herbs. I mean, this is just speculation, but what if part of the secrets in these mystery cults is when a god "speaks to you" after hallucinating on a hallucinogenic drug/herb? Whatever the god "reveals" to you (i.e. speaks to you as hallucinations) will be "secret knowledge" because nobody else can hear and know about it since it is, afterall, a hallucination? Just a theory. Oh, and speaking of Hermeticism, it is linked to the Greek god Hermes. Hermes' equivalent in Egyptian mythology is the god Thoth, and in Mesopotamian mythology it is Enki/Ea as well as Nabu. This has me wondering if there is a link between the occult nature of Hermeticism, the god Hermes, and the gods Thoth, Enki, and Nabu. Does this mean that Hermes, Thoth, Enki, and Nabu were all associated with the occult. If so, then in the Mesopotamian myth of Inanna and Enki, when gets Enki drunk and steals the "Meh" (i.e. the Tablet of Law) from him, could this be re-interpreted from an occult pov as Inanna drugging enki with alcohol and then Enki revealing to her the "secret" Meh? Like I said earlier, Enki is the equivalent of Thoth, and Thoth is the equivalent of Moses, both of them being associated with Law. Does this mean that the story of Moses on Mount Sinai could be re-interpreted from an occult pov as "Yahweh reveals the "secret" Law/10 Commandments to Moses"? If so, then this, in turn, brings me to my study of comparative mythology and how the story of Moses receiving the Law from Yahweh on Mount Sinai is similar to King Solomon receiving wisdom from Yahweh, as well as Muhammad receiving revelations from Allah while in a cave on a mountain. Was Yahweh revealing "secret" wisdom to Solomon, and was Allah revealing "secret" revelations to Muhammad? In other words, from a gnostic pov, did Inanna, Moses, Solomon, and Muhammad all receive "gnosis"? Are the stories of Inanna, Moses, Solomon, and Muhammad all similar to Gnosticism?

"God" exist as spirit in matter all over the universe; but it depends on how the spirit is defined. God is not in the physical form of an image of elephant as a Hindu god or any a human being like Buddha or Jesus.

54:43 sounds like James Tabor!

One of the epistles of John (I cant remember which) is definitely couched in the language of mystery or Gnosticism. Some thing like, "you were told what you needed to know on the day of your initiation.." or some such. References the initiation, and that some oral tradition was revealed BUT doesn't say what the mystery was. I was raised in an OT heavy apocalypse Christian cult and well I remember all those sermons full of midrash (or presher). To hear Richard speak now, puts all those sermons into context. Mark's "parables", Paul's "mysteries", John's "needed to know", because they never actually said the what the mystery was, the modern cult leader can fill in the blank with whatever baloney they want. Frankly it's incredible that this scam has survived for 2000 years! Incredible.

Mithra slaying the bull can be interrupted as astro-theology. Mithra being a solar deity (SUN) as it passes thru the house of Zodiac it conquers each constellation, He is depicted conquering/slaying the bull thus ending the age of Taurus. It's no different when other gods/warriors (solar deity's) are depicted fighting a lion in which conquering constellation of LEO. The four beasts of old testament (read Daniel) were among the most important constellation to the ancients and mystery cults!

Carrier is a hero of mine. Christianity has always been questionable to me.

its interesting I went to a debate site between Richard and dr Craig. the comments were turned off and the blurb said this is the most bizarre opponent Craig ever had so the sponsor was obviously biased. the "debate" was on the resurrection of Jesus. Craig was pro resurrection and the idea that someone died came back days later talked to people and ascended into somewhere in the sky and also zombies walked around and the sun went dark, yet that wasn't bizarre. they should stop these "debates" all they do is legitimize religious belief as relevant and youre not changing anyones mind

Very interesting comparison

The Jesus myth is not even a clever myth. The myth of Spider Man is much better!

Interesting, I have have several Jewish friends and they have told me they were not told about heaven and hell in Judaism....

Imagine, we are probably looking at two more generations before this research is popularly known. The Road to Eleusis is the opening widely read book on this topic, it was spawned by interest in the history of psychedelics, the communion sacrament typically got you so high you couldn’t tell exactly what was going on during the induction ritual (ancient rave culture). That’s why they call them Mystery Cults.

Here’s a tip: if someone who claims to be a historian does not take you to the primary sources (ie inscriptions, archaeology, literature, etc.), but makes generalizing statements (ie all mystery cults were like this, they all believed this, etc.), it’s a dead giveaway that they don’t know what they’re talking about

Agricultural, settled, communities tend to invent a 'cthonic' underground mother earth Goddess, who is obviously under the influence of the moon, because of her monthly cycles. Life springs from the ground and returns there after death. Nomadic races, where the head of the herd is a dominant male animal, tend to invent a male boss sun sky god. The influx of nomadic Aryans with their Sun god into Hellenic Goddess territories caused the Olympian God system to be developed - originally 6 male gods and 6 female goddesses. Hera the single ancient goddess was married off, made subservient to Zeus. This was purely political to keep the peace. The ancient cthonic system went underground together with its ancient sacrament. Where one culture meets another using the same sacrament, it is natural they have a mutual recognition, even if the setting and names differ. Christianity is a Roman invention, appeasing Zoroastrians under the guise of Mithraism for Christ's birthday and Liber Pater devotees for his Easter death.

Thank you for your videos and books. Why is it that religions other than Judaism and Christianity were labeled pagan? If the two mentioned sprang from those older religions aren't they just an extension and a rearrangement of ideals?

What when a single deity wants all the religions and cults in the world, perhaps with only one it prefers over others, as some sort of exercise, and because of the diversity all those religions can mean, whether to cooperate or not cooperate with each other? Take disparate personalities and combine them in an ideal way, and that cooperation may mean new pinnacles of effort and success compared to any one alone. Take disparate personalities and have them exist neutrally towards one another and not cooperate, without a protagonist or antagonist, what then? Then compare taking those same disparate personalities and have them attempt to destroy one another, what plays out?

An interesting subjects about earlier and older religions. Inana is a woman, the oldest God among other Gods of the different cultures.

What about Krishna in India? How similar is the Krishna myth?

Wow. This guy is just great. Exposed the fraud that Christianity is.

To Richard Carrier. In 2Maccabees chapter 12 vers 38-45 tells of rituals made in favor of all the fallen soldiers, so that they may some day resuscitate. In this talk Richard mentioned that this idea of interceding (baptism) for the dead was a novelty of the early christians. This book is not included in protestant Bibles. Most protestants understand a dead person’s salvation situation is a “done deal”.

This Dr. Carrier, young as he is, gathered his issues, knowledge and his philosophy from the writings of people who probably were wrong. I would believe him if his issues are coming from his ideas and own experiences. It is easy to contradict and throw in your own to something that everybody don't seemed to agree already. That should people to ask this guy, "so what's new?"

Why hasn't RC been doing debates lately? We need some new debate videos.

Is there an astrological explanation for why so many of these religions have similar dying and rising stories?

To me is really to desacralize Christianity and see it and the other cults as cultural manifestation. So then "trends" "inspiration" "reusage" "appropriation" make total sence.

Life eternally actualizes infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity. Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life. Being aware of being aware is beyond temporal limits.

Sounds like Scientology fits right in with the mystery cults

The dude in the pink in front looks like he was forced to go. Won’t even look at RC. So rude. Carrier’s my favorite. The best atheist debater imo. Wish he would do more debates.

47:31 If you want to access the work of Dr. Jodi Magness that RC speaks about here she has a Great Courses program called Jesus & His Jewish Influences.

Economist Michael Hudson has an interesting take on Christianity. He days thr lords prayer was changed by he Romans. It originally said, forgive us of our debts. They changed it to, forgive us of our sins. Basically there was a strong anti debt aspect to Christianity.

Is there any videos on RU-vid where Christian theologians give valid explanations why Christianity looks very like a cut and paste job based on older religious practices/beliefs?

A young Hitchens, absolutely outstanding.🌈☘💞☘💞🌈

@47:09 Richard Carrier assumes churches were build in the late 2nd century or better basilica became used as a meeting place and having outgrown the house gatherings. However Paul in Philippians 1 adresses bishops and deacons, which could be an indication already in his time the communities were that large they needed hierarchy to get organised. Could it be that as christian indicated communities had already a longer history in Paul's time of writing than tradition assumes?

What's that guy doing in the background? Fascinating! 28:38

I am very intrigued by your perspective on the emergence and practice of early Christianity. Now, I listened to a few of your videos. I discovered you today. So, it seems like you might have some glaring things that even though you're very scholarly that you might be missing from your perspective and your explanation which is the idea of the baptism and you seem to stop at John the Baptist as a Jewish source for this ritual bathing, in Judaism, it's called the mikvah. This is in archaeological finds throughout the land that is in between the Mediterranean sea and the Jordan River you can see that it's a Jewish or Hebraic practice to Bathe oneself ritually and now that is prevalent throughout Cannan or Palestine or today's Israel. I don't know if the Mikvah came originally from Egypt or Mesopotamia or Cannanite cultures but the Hebraic ritual bath is probably as ancient as the Hebraic circumcision. Nowadays religious Jewish people will do a Mikvah every time you have a life cycle change before a wedding before they go to a funeral before bar mitzvah a woman will do it every month, everyday, for about 2 weeks to cleanse yourself from her monthly menstrual cycle. So not only can you see it virtually in any ancient hebraic settlement this ritual bath but you can also see it you can also see the separation between the male and the female in the Mikvah when you go to the the dung gate in the area right before you get to the Western Wall of the old Jewish temple on Mount Moriah. So this is very close to King David City's with edges called it's the city before Jerusalem which was actually built on top of another civilizations City. I can't remember if it was the Jesubites that King David spots and took over and he built on top of their City. Know who knows if King David really existed but a city was built there and it's smaller than the city that is now the old city of Jerusalem. So well before the old city of Jerusalem there was an older city of Jerusalem and on top of that next to it there was a smaller pre-Jerusalem. If you go to Israel it is it is discussed to everyone or explain to everyone that that little pre Jerusalem area was King David's shity before the temple was built. They had mikvot. I can't believe that you never talk about the Mikveh. So I'm left with the impression that you don't know about this huge part of Judaic practice. Likewise, because you never seem to mention it, it seems you don't know about the Nazarene rite. I find this oddly missing and they're probably more things but as a Reform somewhat informed but not as a practicing had or a scholarly (just curious) Jewish person listening to you it sounds like you don't know about the practice and temporary or lifetime commitment of the group or it is kind of like a Haji in the Muslim faith if you go to Mecca you become a Haji it's like you you commit to something and then you get a title because of it or status. And this is the Nazarene wedge I don't know what to call it but it's kind of like what the Byzantine hermit monks did for a time they would isolate themselves in the in the desert and they couldn't cut their hair or their nails and they had to be like one with the elements and God and essenes were very much like this but you know when Jesus did his wandering in the desert it's speculated that he was part of the nazarenes. Samson was a Nazarene but from birth. So a parent could put a kid in this kind of strictly religious kind of obligation or you could volunteer yourself to do it as an adult an adult Jewish man. So it's I guess it's a ritual religious rite but it's not everyone who doesn't it's not an expectation. That's why when people say that he was a Nazarene and he was from Bethlehem I'm curious if he was not from Nazareth at all but they were describing the fact that he had gone to the desert and done this religious right as a Nazarene not as a Nazareth resident or citizen. I don't know if I'm the only one confused by this I don't think I am but I do I don't know if you've ever been to the land of Israel and explored the land yourself. I think you would really love it to see the remains of the synagogues the houses and the ritual baths the mick Bush and the oliv oil and grape presses. I think that you will understand things a whole lot better if you go there and you actually learn the land through your feet by hiking and your hands touch the soil.

The distracting guy loitering behind Carrier while he does his self-advertisements and comedy routine, enjoying a beverage... then comes guy #2, who can't close his mouth, checking his cellphone, who would rather fidget and wobble than to sit in the chair he brought....nice touch.

When Christ says'Let the dead bury their dead ', if this is a mystery cult ,could it be referring to something like the way some Sadhus in India perform their own funeral rites , so that they are no longer part of the requirements of normal society, and their fellow Sadhus will usually deal with the corpse once they've passed on? Jesus is quoted as making several suggestions that would be fine for someone living that sort of life but be hopelessly impractical for a regular citizen....+ of course the other statements that contradict them, so either he's being all things to all people or they've spliced together several cults and people to create him? + the different number of hours he's on the Cross in the gospels, is that a Solar Deity type thing or what? It was a very interesting lecture, thank you.

Can someone help me with the title of the book were this topic is develope? Thanks.