Although why 6 or 7 copies of LOTR? It's written in English so its not like the Bible translations. Unless it's 3 for LOTR, the hobbit, Silmarillion and the Christopher Tolkien stuff
@@nath9091 I mean, there are old version, new versions, some have the appendices some don't. Sometimes people gift you a nice, shiny looking one. If you marry, you might add any that your partner has to yours. We have at least three at home too. It happens.
Galu, get the audio books for Jess for Xmas. Really nicely done and great narration. Think it was Martin Shaw if I remember rightly (I half remembered rightly. He did The Hobbit and Silmarillion. Rob Inglis did the rings)
Also a few corrections: Earendil is mentioned in the Fellowship. Bilbo sings a whole song about him, "Earendil was a mariner..." Celebrimbor lived in Nargothrond, but he had split with his father's people by that point; after Nargothrond and Gondolin fell it's not unlikely he joined the survivors at the Mouth of the Sirion. At least we know nothing to the contrary. Then again, Celebrimbor might have just made it up to influence Elrond
I think re: the tree in Linden having blackness and the Mithril plotpoint and deadline by Spring, that they are all part of Annatar's influence. I think Celebrimbor has already been taken in and is influencing Gil-Galad and Elrond along with some totally behind the scenes corruption of the tree by Annatar. The Mithril plotpoint is supposed to be BS and I would bet that it will be revealed as being part of Annatar's manipulation in order to obtain Mithril (which in lore he does covet).
In addition, remember Halbrand's quote about fear and giving someone a way to conquer their fear in order to control them. The only reasonable fear for elves is losing their long life, and giving them Mithril as a way to conquer it while also getting Mithril for yourself and controlling them seems exactly in line with the show's thinking on evil. Not meant to imply Halbrand is Annatar/Sauron, but that his idea illustrates some of the show's conception of evil.
@@ImpressionismFTW The actual fear of the Elves, and their reason for making the Rings, is that everything in Middle-earth will decay and they will somehow fade away because of this. "For those who possessed [the Elven-rings] could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world" (OTROPATTA). I think this is means their own "world-weariness". I agree, the myth about the tree and mithril is part of Sauron's deception, but it doesn't fit Celebrimbor's actual motives.
I believe you are giving them much too credit and are scrambling to put some sense into what they're doing. It's commendable, but these are the same writers that had Galadriel cross the ocean swimming... They ain't subtle people
26:00 I believe what Jess is referring to is when the three hunters come across an orc helmet with "S" branded on it. One of them asks if S is for Sauron and they say no, he doesn't want his name spoken, it's actually Saruman's orcs. Like a played down version of Voldemort's name in Harry Potter
@david ferrell That's what I thought. IF Adar was close to Sauron that would be close to blasphemy. The fact that Waldrig essentially said "If I cant get the proper Jesus. I'll serve you instead." made the whole thing worse.
I think the theory in favour of at least partially created Orcs is that the key differentiatior was that Illuvatar more so has the power to create Intelligence and the ability for free thinking, not the biological living So considering Morgoth got more power then Äule he could have enough to create very limited intelligence but not free thinking with the orcs always being still a bit mindless slaves and Sauron being able to take over that mind control. But then Silmarillion clearly stated elves got abducted by Melkor very early on and we don't know about the human origin but so tortured mix makes complete sense Now what about the Uruk-Hai origin, that's the true discussion
Re: Elves needing mithril. I think this is foreshadowing the making of the Elven rings. Elves do quite literally fade if they stay in ME, particularly after the 3rd age. Galadriel's ring (if I remember) was actually fully mithril, so they might expand this to needing mithril for the forging of the 3 Elven rings, which are quite important in maintaining what is left of the Elves' power in the 3rd age. I'd speculate that is why they "need" it (in the show) - the Three maintain at least some of the power of the Eldar in ME.
Yes but only one of the rings was made of mithril. Plus the Eldar should know what happened to the rings celebrimbor new earendil he knows he silmaril is in the sky. Maedros jumped into a fiery pit with his and maglor threw his into the sea
fading in ME- yes but i would say that their existence and souls were never in doubt. it was insinuated as a downfall, but as the ultimate goal being Valinor it shouldn't be to worrisome
Elves weren’t like toy robots needing mithril as batteries to power them up. The elves started dwindling from the beginning of their awakening because of the corruption and marring that Melkor/Morgoth had infused into the very fabrics of the world. That was why the Valar invited the elves to live with them in Valinor so they elves’ dwindling could be slowed down or possibly stopped. Fun fact: Mithril also existed in Númenor and Valinor. If mithril contained the light of the Silmarils, then why didn’t the Valar use mithril to repair the two trees that were destroyed by Morgoth and Ungoliant?
@@evelynrosewindsor Only Feanor knew how the Silmarils where created and how to use them to restore the trees. Thats why the Valar asked him instead of doing it themselves
in one of tolkien's letters, he likens Numenoreans to egyptians "The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled ‘Egyptians’ - the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. (But not of course in 'theology’ : in which respect they were Hebraic and even more puritan…) I think the crown of Gondor (the S. Kingdom) was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back but at an angle. The N. Kingdom had only a diadem the difference between the N. and S. kingdoms of Egypt. "
Thank you for having these discussions :). It's nice to just listen and discuss the subject matter without politics and blah blah blah. In short thank you guys :)
I absolutely love these discussions haha. Great points of view from Jess and amazing knowledge from Galu. I hope they continue! Wonderful job and keep up the good work.
Its actually really funny how Galu blames Jess for not reading the books - and not knowing a lot about it. Feels so relatable being a little bit of a nerd loving stuff which my gf doesn´t really care about. But of course Jess does at least care about it^^
I believe I heard that the reason the "Dead Marshes" contain so many dead bodies is that the elves buried those killed in the battle in the land surrounding the marshes, but over time the marshland grew in size and eventually swallowed up the land containing the elf-graves, thereby exposing the bodies to the water. Gases bubbling up from the decomposing matter were occasionally ignited, leading to the flames in the landscape by the time Frodo and Gollum go thru the area.
Correction (I know I'm a bit late to this particular party): Sauron doesn't show Denethor visions of what will happen. He shows him true things that have or are happening and Denethor fills in the blanks, often incorrectly. For example, Tom Shippey argues that Sauron showed Denethor a captured Frodo on the same day as Faramir's wounding. This causes Denethor to finally succumb to despair, believing that Sauron, having captured the Ring-Bearer, must now surely have the ring. I don't think anyone was able to conjure visions of any possible future in the palantiri. I think that's also a far more interesting way than having Sauron being able to cheat basically. He shows glimpses of the truth and allows his enemy to destroy themselves. It almost works on the host of the West outside the Black Gate when the Mouth shows them the mithril shirt and the shortsword. Again, he shows them a partial truth allowing them to paint the whole picture themselves in their despair.
I assume the "Nazgul blade" is the key to setting off Mount Doom. We've seen Galadriel covered with ash in the previews, and she's heading to The Southlands now. We know Adar was searching for it with the tunnels highlighting the orcs' weakness to the sun. Furthermore, he was implying to the orc he made expose his forearm that the sun was going to go away so....
My money would be that Sauron has NOT been introduced into the show yet. Sauron is not captured until Ar-Pharazon is king and sails to ME to capture Sauron after Sauron calls himself king of Kings or something like that. Could be season 2 for the downfall of Numenor and season 1 ends with Sauron being introduced
I know you mentioned and was unconvinced before, but I've been persuaded by the Reddit threads that the stranger is Tilion. Lots of little things in the episodes pointing towards it so far for me. Really enjoying these videos, thanks to both of you.
I believe the Palantiri only show the past and the present, not the future. What they show is true as far as appearances go but another person with a Palantir (e.g. Sauron) can cause you (e.g. Denethor) to misunderstand what you see (the Corsair ships) or even choose what you see. (Sources include The Pyre of Denethor and The Last Debate.) The vision of Miriel and Galadriel is the sort of thing Galadriel's Mirror does. It is of the future and it might not happen, especially if you try to prevent it. In this case, at her first look in the Palantir Miriel sees Galadriel being overcome by the wave. This is why she thinks if Galadriel is not there, the wave won't happen. However this is very confusingly told, as Miriel's vision at the baby-naming shows her and not Galadriel. We are supposed to realise that Miriel actually saw the version with Galadriel in it, which Galadriel herself sees. Miriel does explain this but that seems to have been retconned in.
There is actually a whole manual on how to use the Palantíri in Unfinished Tales. The idea that these things are anything more than a communications (and sometimes spying) device is ludicrous. They do not show anything on their own, much less visions of the future. The fact that Pippin was able to communicate with Sauron was in itself a huge coincidence because Palantíri need to be lined up correctly. You _use_ them. Like a tool.
C`mon Arachir :-) Give Jess some credit. :-) She speaks for whom is not loremasters like us. :-) Anyway great video as always! :-) And dont get yourself anoyed by shows adjustments... its just a show :-)
Been watching since the episode 1 questions. New subscriber now. Love watching these for some extra lore tidbits I missed after watching the episodes. I'm still hoping that the showrunners are doing this on purpose with the charecters acting strange sometimes to make us think he's Sauron, then BAM , Annatar pops out in the end of episode 7 or 8 when Celebrimbor introduces him to Elrond, or possibly just a scene with him and Celebrimbor talking on screen for the first time. I'm pretty sure he's the reason Celebrimbor needs the forge done by Spring with all the Mithril propaganda stuff as well he's telling his people. Just like Halbrand said, Saurons trying to go up against their weakness and master it to his own , which is their immortality and poisoning their tree as a sign. Maybe Annatar already visited Lindon already and when he did , he did that then left . Cause we know in the books he tries to gain an audience with them and therefore Celebrimbor with his ambitions, is the one that doesn't refuse his call . This would be the way to go if that's what they're trying to do. They're name dropping Sauron so many times , he's gotta be revealed in his fair form very soon I'm sure. Can't wait for the last few episodes and to see how they end it
I will miss these reviews that take context/editorial plots into account. I tire of reviewers qct dumbfounded as to why plot elements are introduced. Whether or not the elements are well executed, at least you put some thought into the showrunners' perspective
Wait so Numenor didnt have something Roman(esque) in its themes? Grand civilization with outstanding capacities in warfare and science(?), that ultimately falls apart due to its own hubris/imperial ambitions but has multiple colonies that lay claim to its inherited legacy? Maybe im reading too much into it. I just feel like the loss of a great civilization theme of Tolkien finds its parallel best with the downfall of the classical past and the rebirth of its knowledge in the renaissance.
Not directly related to Numenor of course, but I remember Tolkien in an interview confirming that there are parallels between The Lord of the Rings and the Greco-Persian wars, ostensibly as ascribed by Herodotus. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Some parts of The Histories read a lot like Tolkien. You have factions like Gondor and Rohan being analogues to Sparta and Athens. For example, The Battle of Helm's Deep is not dissimilar to the Battle of Thermopylae, except with a good ending of course.
Are you enjoying the show? I love Tolkien. The silmarilIion is my favourite book and i so wanted to but am finding it impossible. Apart from destroying the cannon, the script is baaaaad, the elves look like actors with pointy ears and so on and so on. So disappointing 😞.
Speculation / question do we think we've met one or more Nazgul to be? Cultists, Halbarad and the young lads in the Mordor village people are candidates for me
Not sure if this falls under speculation or a question. After the harfoots passed through the marsh it went back to the map and I couldn't orientate where they went next. Did they pass through where the black gate would later be or down into Ithilien or somewhere else? Thank you again for the videos.
It's likely there will be plenty of twists as the show goes on, so I wouldn't rule out the idea of the Mithril origin story being false, but I'm not fussed if it is or isn't. It's fairly interesting and harmless worldbuilding upon the foundation set by Tolkien for Amazon's version of the story. Besides, Elrond said that the song in which the story came from wasn't reliable/was untrustworthy or something along those lines... I reckon that was Amazon's way of doing a potential retcon later down the line if it proved too controversial with the fanbase.
If Adar is a known character from lore, it would be Maglor, not Maeglin. Maglor is corrupted by Feanors oath and didn't die. He certainly isn't Sauron. That's a red herring.
2 года назад
Someone asked in the last episode if we thought it would be Maglor so we talked about it there.
Hi Jessica and Galu. My theory is dont think Halbrrand is Sauron. Its to lame, even for the show runners. But, can he became a Witch King or Khamu (since he is Easterling)? Also, Jen is one patient woman. Some woman wil hit you with all 7 copies of Tolkiens books for that roasting.
🤣 They do take up a lot of shelf space but they suit the room too... I'll forgive his roasting of me as he has many redeeming qualities 🥰 and I ask a lot of questions 😅
Oh no! Jess is a filthy casual!? Lol, enjoying the discussion guys, I personally think the stranger will end up being the witch king and we haven't seen sauron yet
No she never went to Numenor. But I do like how she is used to introduce to more of the characters. Especially the relationship with Elendil. Makes the conversation with Aragorn in fellowship of the ring movie (extended edition ) even more amazing when she name drops Elendil when she lays out on what choice Aragorn needs to make either to be a King or to die off with the rest of your bloodline . Makes it feel even more that she has a closer relationship with Aragorns family. Like the small touches they did with those conversations in Numenor so far. And in the Isildur trailer Amazon posted seems like Galadriel is gonna get to know more about Isildur as well most likely next episode. Can't wait for that . Even more about Aragorns family down the line in this season. I do love what they're building upon with these interactions even though it's not canon. Although it could be canon if Galadriel ends up interacting with them later when they settle and find Gondor and Arnor. Would make sense there when they become friends with Elrond and Gil Galad. Another big moment I can't wait for. Although that's probably gonna be like Season 3 or most likely 4 lol . Lots of cool events in the Second Age
depends which version of Galadriel we're talking about 😅 Tolkien wrote and rewrote her story a lot but only after the "big" storylines were already settled, so he never really figured out where to place her within the lore in a significant role without diminishing the already established characters. what we do get: she was the first to clock Sauron's return during the Second Age and was distrustful of his Annatar form from the moment she saw it, came in contact with one of the earlier Faithful kings of Númenór, got one of the Elven rings and moved around quite a lot with her husband and daughter. i think that's essentially it.
Do you think it would be possible that Numenor is in fact based on different parts of english/ british history? It is an island nation after all which becomes famous for its navy, an army that is primarily made up of infantry and great archers and Numenor as well as England grew on and spread in an imperialistic way all over the world.
2 года назад
Almost certainly not. Only because the Shire is Tolkiens idolised version of rural England.
Hah, then Warhammer (Fantasy this time) would be even more akin to Middle Earth. I say this because the high elves and their home in Warhammer Fantasy are based on Atlantis and the British Empire (most powerful navy, far-flung colonies).
The main issue with orcs NOT being created is that orcs would have to be outnumbered by living men /elves, which is very much the opposite of what's happening
Well, that's not necessarily true. The idea is that *originally*, as a species, they were made by corrupting elves/men, but once that's done they can freely multiply among themselves. On a surface level that works fine, nobody is implying that every individual goblin or orc was an elf before (as Tolkien himself several times specifies them "multiplying" under the mountains, for instance). How does that work for their Fëa, though? What happens after they die? Where are the females? And if they are born like this, can we really say they are inherently evil as individuals? But if they are all artificially created instead, who's doing that when there's no Sauron or similar to do that around? Can orcs do that themselves? How? Well, all this is obviously unclear, but it's like questioning teleportation tech in Star Trek (is what arrives technically a copy of what was sent? If so, wouldn't you, from your perspective, die when you teleport?). It's things that simply weren't really developed as them being vague was good enough for their intended purpose as plot devices. Basically, when you go into detail and try to correlate it with how other things in this world are said to work, some things either don't really add up anymore if you try and look at it deep enough, or are left unexplained and more than one theory could more or less be applicable.
@@kadatherion_ ah that's an interesting point, I think that is very much the key question : how do they multiply? Reproduction doesn't make much sense imo. Baby orcs and such... It has to be some sort of magical cloning in orc pits, using mud or something a bit like what we see in Jackson's LOTR uruk creation process
@@Max-px5ym that would however imply that even the goblins under the mountains had the power of creation. Limited, perhaps, as they are clearly depicted as inferior to the other sentient races, but still very close. We already notice it being problematic for other parts of the canon when we suppose it's Melkor or Sauron (or Saruman) doing that, how deflating would it be if we were to imagine even the puny goblins able do that by themselves? I'm personally inclined to think, in my headcanon, it's less problematic to imagine orcs and goblins have the tendency of keeping the females as mere brood mares or something like that, so we don't see them for that reason. After all we also don't know anything about female dwarves - except for a very brief mention attesting that they do in fact exists, but that's all - Tolkien doesn't shy away from simply ignoring some things he's not much interested in. It's a theory that doesn't directly clash with something written elsewhere, like the pure creation can be said to have, but it also has nothing confirming it, so it's just speculation. And it's just personal preference, I guess. I'm also probably more keen to see orcs as a race not that different from the others because I'm instinctively driven towards the shades of grey rather than the black vs white that them being little more than "animated tools" would better represent. And many could very effectively argue the good vs evil dichotomy is so strong and such a very foundation of Tolkien's work, that it makes little sense to try and steer away from it, so there's that too.
I’ve actually not watched the series past the second episode merely from not having my expectations met. Still plan on watching it though I am enjoying these breakdowns and Q&A format video with your wife because it gives myself a “heads up” as to what Amazon has chosen to do. These are very good for someone apprehensive about the series but is still interested in eventually watching their fan fiction.
However I do like the book club idea... It would probably be too slow of a pace for YT though 🤔 not sure how many would be into it... (obviously with a similar format)
@@nottheeviltwin2 I'd love it since I've also only seen the movies so far (as I'm sure many have). And tried listening to the Silmarillion but got super confused with all the names real quick 😅
@@timoehlers2265 mmm I've heard the main books are easier reads than the silmarillion. Maybe after this series I'll ask Galu to do a poll to see if more than just you and I would be interested in a LOTR book club 😁
whats the inspiration behind the name arachir galudirithon?
2 года назад
"Arachír" = High-Lord "Galudirithon" = Defender of (Good Fortune / Wealth / Prosperity). These are the meanings of my real name, Edward. So it basically is Highlord Edward.
How did the Black Numenoreans (Mouth of Sauron, etc.) escape the fall of Numenor? And why were they still referred to as Numenoreans after all those thousands of years when the other Numenoreans became known as the Dunedain?
They weren't in Númenór at the time. They had settlements for thousands of years in Middle Earth, kinda enslaving the local population & not being very nice overall. So there were a bunch of Númenórians on the continent already & when the Island went down, they remained loyal to the King & ultimately Sauron. One of their most famous settlement is Umbar (remember the corsairs in LotR).
@@Annielee825 Kind of makes Eru look like a fool. He destroys the whole of Numenor, including the innocent. But he lets the supporters of Sauron/Ar-Pharazon outside of Numenor live
Doesn't Tolkien directly compare Gondor to the gradual diminishing of Byzantium? It might not say anything as to the culture, but at the very least, it's an historical analogy.
He does. He also had the Númenórean crown be extremely similar to that of upper Egypt. He, in fact, directly compared the Númenóreans to Ancient Egyptians. Although in that same letter he also explicitly says that while parallels like that may be drawn, they can never infer anything _else_ about his world. I.e. just because some things about the Númenóreans are similar to Ancient Egypt, you can't, for example, infer from that that they used curved swords or were polytheists or worshipped their king as a god, or whatever other specific cultural thing you can think of. It's the same with Gondor and the Eastern Roman Empire. Or Rohan and the Anglo Saxons.
Not exactly. He called Minas Tirith "A kind of proud, venerable, but increasingly impotent Byzantium," in one of his letters. The word "Byzantine" has a non-literal use to describe something of labyrinthine complexity or dated bureaucracy. At most I think we can see him drawing a parallel between two declining cities rather than empires. There are a lot of fan theories connecting the two but I wouldn't consider that connection canon.
Tar is the elven word for King/Queen. Pharazon did not like the elves, so among other things he forbade use of the elven language including the official title of the king.
@@DonQ94 Slight correction: they changed the regal prefix to Ar- (i.e. the Adûnaic word for King/Queen) back in SA 2737 with Ar-Belzagar (Tar-Calmacil). By the time Tar-Palantir repented, there had already been six kings with Adûnaic names. Ar-Pharazôn simply took up the tradition, changing it back to Ar-.
2 года назад
Don and Thindrusc have answered this nicely but we'll pop it in the next episode as well. :-)
Amazon really shot themselves in the foot by completely ignoring the silmarils in the Ep1 prologue, and now half way through the season making them an element in a major plot point. (Swing and a miss!) Also, Jess, the "that's not very poetic" line was great. 9/10
Arguably, given what they have the copyright on, it's much easier for them to talk about the Silmarils in the Second Era - regardless if going completely off canon - than in the First. They basically had to ask, pretty please with a cherry on top, to just quickly mention a few things about the First Era to at least set up some context for their fanfiction, but couldn't go any more in detail than that. The result nevertheless is what you point out though, they totally missed the mark. I believe this was them *trying* to tie things up with some of the canon to please book fans too, but they did it very poorly and devastatingly missing one of the major themes of Tolkien's poetics.
Galu I know you are removed from it. But I really want to know why the ents are independent generals sitting at the bottom of the map in third age 4.5 and 4.6. Could you shed some light on this please.
2 года назад
They are teleported back into play when certain scripted events happen. They need to already exist for those scripts to work properly so they are "stored" in an unreachable area.
Oh wow. Big fan but cringed my way through that nearly-brilliant episode. I loved the questions from Jessica's less au fait persoective. They were the perfect foil for some guru insight from the main man. A really sweet effective set up, with the pair of you. But oh my goodness. You grumpy, patronising sulkboy. Poor girl. What's the matter with you? Either do the show without her, or be slightly professional and don't act like she's an annoying imbecile. Your disdain for her mere existence in the video leapt forth brilliantly. I can only assume on purpose. Surely you can't think you hid it well. Gosh. Toe curling. Fair play to Jess for trooping on regardless. At least someone was professional... encyclopaedic knowledge of Tolkien is great, something I hugely respect and enjoy. But it is worthless without dignity and emotional maturity.
Год назад
I hold no disdain for Jess. I am just not the super excitable person people think I am from the main videos. What you see as sulking disdain is just me listening to what she is saying. I, like many people, am fallible.
Really pleased you've been enjoying the videos. I assure that Galu is only playing up to what I say and his light hearted nature may not come across well because his expression is not as animated as his voice depicts. He is teasing me and maybe that has been misinterpreted. Some misinterpretation may be due to my editing so I'll be more mindful in future videos. He is incredibly encouraging, we've been a team for over a decade and if Galu was really as you have viewed him to be in these videos there is no way we would have gone from strength to strength in those years. I'm sorry you haven't enjoyed watching this episode but if our visual dynamic isn't too your taste maybe just listen like a podcast instead, then it is the best of both worlds 🤷♀️
Apologies I misread the runes. I honestly felt really uncomfortable watching it. Who am I to say how you feel? I shouldn't have just vented my gut reaction. Ignore me and carry on the great work.
Its a minor point and Im not sure if this is true to the lore, but I thought Gimli found some Mithril behind the Hornburg in Helms Deep. And I though he then used this Mithril to make a new Gate for Minas Tirith. Also I have to say that I liked the little story with the roots of the tree becomming ore in the mountain. Not as a story that actually happend, but a little in-universe myth like we have in the real world about really unimportant things like the colour of a fruit. It makes Gil-Galad a bit short sighted and even simple minded to think this is the one and only hope to save his people of course, but as others have pointed out maybe this is already Saurons lies at work.
I think the show is purposely planting several contradicting clues so that we can’t pinpoint who The Stranger is yet. The cold fire comment, the resemblance to Gandalf…
I think that the show is definitely intentionally trying to misdirect the viewer. If you look, there's hints that Sauron could be Halbrand, The Stranger, Adar, etc. It's just kind of throwing some red herrings out there to keep you guessing. Personally, I think it's doing a pretty great job of that too.
They didn't leave the bodies in the Dead Marshes after the Battle of Dagorlad, at least for the most part. The older parts of the marshes probably had some corpses for Galadhrim who fled into them and drowned there after being routed during the battle, but that would likely just be the ones who were missed or couldn't be safely recovered. The vast majority of the dead in the Dead Marshes were from graves that were inundated as the marshes spread over the years.
I like the theory that the elves or men were "materialising" in random places when created, but some of their bodies got found and altered during that process by Morgoth to make orcs. So that would make Morgoth a kind of modder, he didn't create the life within these creatures but he reskinned them and changed them contrary to the original creator.
What if the whole mithril story is actually a lie told by Sauron who is already deceiving the elves behind the scenes, getting celebrimbor to make the forge to make the rings and he’s the one that corrupted the tree to help sell his story, may explain why nothing else outside Mordor is corrupted
People actually like this series? I was trying to find people that like it here on YT, an almost impossible task. Wow. I so jealous, i would love to even tolerate this series. I tryed until ep 4, but I cannot keep up, it's just horrible, unwatchable for me. I'm super glad for you guys, and again, very jealous
I am watching, not really enjoying it. Though I'd be lying if I didn't disclose their are few elements I like. The music is great, although at times doesn't really match the scene. In vacuum though the music is good...Howard Shore Lord of the Rings good.....ehhh no, still solid. I think some the smaller stories are well played between certain actors. Namely Durin and Elrond have captured a nice friendship so I enjoy those scenes. Some the visuals are lovely, great eye candy. Story and lore wise it's a UTTER train wreck. So why keep watching? For the few things I enjoy, and as matter of study of what NOT to do in storytelling. Also what not to do when storytelling in a Tolkien world, since I am a Lore Master for a Lord of the Rings based table top rpg this is helpful to me. I wouldn't' t blame anyone for checking out of this series. Just thought I'd share why someone might watch it without enjoying it. LOL
@@SmugglerSteel I really tried to enjoy it, and I really wanted to like it, but I found myself just cringing in my seat, so many times, ep 1 and the honeymoon phase ep 4 was the breaking point.
“…all of you, what I would call laymen or when you’re not listening plebeians“…please Mr. Galudirithon do make audiobooks with only you talking. I shall buy them all !
Thank you for this video! There are so many evil creatures in Middle Earth, the question where do orcs come from is one of many, where do trolls come from, dragons, Ungoliant.... makes you wonder how many Valar and Maya became corrupt or did Morgoth find a way to manipulate DNA, maybe his offspring. Are there any theories out there or is where do orcs come from the only question people ask? (I am loving the dynamic but I would smack Galu if I was sitting next to him :D )
If you take as a given the principle that life can only be created by Eru, all "evil" races are either corrupted or modified/bred into existence from other races by Melkor or Sauron. Ungoliant can only be one of the Ainur.
In the lore it's a recurring theme that the evil beings are a mockery of their good equivalent. We have trolls ---> ents, wargs ---> dogs (the great ones from Valinor), winged beasts ---> eagles and so on. In most cases *if* it's mentioned, it's mentioned as being a mockery of Eru's work. How exactly that is done, though, is never really clearly explained. The whole theme comes from Tolkien's christian beliefs: there's a lot of emphasis on "corruption" - moral and physical, and often the two things go together (even Sauron himself that will not be able to take a fair shape like Annatar once he's gone too far) - temptation, etc. Melkor is much like Lucifer, resentful and wanting to twist God's work in spitefulness, Sauron picks up from there, all evil characters are people that somehow were led into falling from grace, and so on (welp, the rings themselves are the epitome of the temptation/corruption cycle). When it comes to its physical implications, though, the "corruption" thing has issues, as mentioned (and I fear we'll see these issues when we discover Adar is turning into an orc or something like that: because I fear that's the road they're taking), and the creation of life is something only Iluvatar has the power to do, so yeah, I'd say the closest thing you should picture in your head is some sort of magical DNA manipulation. Down in the dungeons of Angband Morgoth mixed and twisted some species in mockery of Eru's and these are the results (and their descents). How exactly that works ends in the old fantasy realm of "it's magic, ain't gotta explain shit", unfortunately. Tolkien explains a lot more than most other fantasy writers, but even him had to have some limits.
(BTW yeah, they're clearly fine with that and it's their dynamic, nevertheless even though he's right I'd totally smack him too, the smug arsehole XD )
2 года назад
Curious as to what about my behaviour is off to you? I don't mean that judgemental or argumentative but academically.
@ well, we notice it in a jokingly way, mind me, but how sometimes you are pretty dismissive (in snarky ways that some could sometimes even get to the point of calling kind of "aggressive") of what Jess says can come off as a bit arrogant and overall unpleasant to see. I'm sure, as said, it is a tongue in cheek dynamic between you two (it's the same for me with my girlfriend on these very same topics), but while it's something that's normal for you and has context, that context doesn't necessarily always get conveyed through the screen to us viewers who obviously aren't in the loop. So, while sometimes it works and spurs a grin, other times, especially as this behaviour tends to repeat several times, and on her side she usually doesn't really talk back but appears to just take it, you end up coming off as being a bit of dick to her. Let's say just enough to have us jokingly cheer a "oh, come on Jess, slap the douchebag".
So Elrond makes an oath to one of the two Durins and breaks it straight away by revealing mithril to Celebrimbor. The writting is not good at all. Do we just forget the oath? One of the Durins threatened Elrond with terrible vengeance on the Elvish race if the oath was broken.
Concerning the origin of orcs, there is another possible origin in addition to those that are listed here. That is that orcs are effectively beasts that have been raised up and taught speech, like the eagles, and deformed in shape as mockery of the races of the children of Illuvatar. You can read about this in Morgoth's Ring part 5. This is my personal favorite origin, as it avoids all of the problems with orc origins and explains their apparent lack of individuality and rationality, things associated with the fëa that they would not have as merely talking beasts.
Sauron is probably not gonna be in the season at all (if not a glimpse at the very end). In any case even they don't know where they're going and why (all 500 of them, oh the splendor of the biggest army in the history of mankind). If this is meant to be THAT expedition Sauron surrenders to it's gonna be hilarious, but in theory - from what we've seen - Sauron isn't where they're going (unless he's gonna be Adar but I agree with Galu, he absolutely isn't gonna be), so heh, it seems unlikely.
They already muddled the timeline, but ever so briefly the story goeth thusly: The rings are forged, Sauron conquers Eriador and kills Celebrimbor, the elves send for Aid of the Numenoreans, together the beat Sauron for the first time. Sauron flees, and there are about a thousand years of piece until he stirs again. This provokes the then Numenorean King Ar-Pharazon to send out a huge Armarda to capture Sauron, to which the latter surrenders without a fight. Sauron turns from captive to councilor on Numenor, ultimately resulting in its downfall, shortly before which Elendil, his sons, and other Faithful set out to found the Kingdoms of Anor and Gondor respectively. Shortly thereafter Sauron once again returns in force, almost conquering middlearth, and this is where the last alliance happens and the battles of dagorland (dead marshes) and Mount Doom which we see in the movies. I would guess what we are seeing now is the first elnumenorean expedition to aid the elves, albeit at a disappointingly small scale, featuring Elendil and Issildur only due to the much shortened timeline.
Nah definitely not . They have 5 seasons to go and presumably I'm pretty sure the 5th will end in the War of the Last Alliance plus the whole thing with the ambush that happens to isildur in the Gladden Fields in the fellowship of the ring prologue. It's all coming towards that. It's a slow burn they're doing. I'm assuming they're gonna capture Sauron possibly in the end of season 2 or beginning of season 3. I'm thinking if they have to end a season each , it has to be towards a huge canon event , which would make sense if the end of season 3 would be the downfall of Numenor etc. I'm pretty sure this is the direction they're going for. Hopefully lol
The best evidence for Halbrand being Sauron is when he is in the prison cell and literally tells how Sauron will gain influence over Numenor. Literally using their fear against them
No, it was certainly his mental struggles with Sauron. Sauron couldn't make the palantiri lie, but he showed Denethor only things that would stoke his despair. Though Denethor was shrewd and proud to begin with.
i always thought that the numenorians were based on the Minoan culture (the people that the atlantis myth is based on). I think they were described as taller stronger and more technologicaly advanced than any other people from their time or at least thats their legend
I also seem to remember mentions of them having some Egyptian inspiration, in architecture especially. Can't remember though if it was from actual material or some derivative talk that just stuck in my mind for some reason.
@@kadatherion_ It is from Letter 211, though technically a reference to Gondor: "The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' - the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. (But not of course in 'theology' : in which respect they were Hebraic and even more puritan...".
@@Tar-Elenion great, thanks, it gets so hard at times to differentiate from the original material and all that has been built upon it during the years, all mixed up in your head. Heck, sometimes if I'm not careful even some of what Galu has come up with for DaC could slip through :P In any case I'm liking the byzantine theme they've gone with for the series. It fits well - quite naturally - with the more medieval one Peter Jackson went with, it's recognizable enough so that even casual viewers know who these people are in connection with the movies (maybe even a bit too much when it comes to buildings, it blurries the idea we are at least 3000 years before the event of the LotR), but there's interesting variations (in costumes and interiors especially). It would have been interesting to see, as the cult of Sauron and Morgoth spreads in Numenor, what could have happened to their architecture as well, how would it change, but as the entire timeline is gonna be shrunk into few years - decades tops, I guess - I fear that's not something that's gonna happen so visually.
Well that would make some sense considering the Atlantis analogy (or does it? Maybe it just feels right to me). Regardless of the lore, I do like the Minoan touches found in Numenorean architecture in the show.
