I'm loving your post-episode conversations. I agree that the stranger seems more and more like a blue wizard, but a small part of me still wants it to be Tom Bombadil. 😆
I appreciate that you point out little things that ROP has snuck in. It's easy for everyone to critique things we don't like, but it takes someone whos familiar with the story to point out these details.
It would be nice if the whole show were built of these details though, rather than them being rarities worth pointing out. Can you imagine how nice it'd be for everything to be that satisfyingly familiar? I suppose they can't do that without the rights to the silmarillion though.
Nobody wants to mention the simple fact this entire series is impossible according to basic middle earth lore when it chronologically converges 3 separate events into one. 1) eruption of Mt Doom circa 1000 SA 2) forging of the rings circa 1500 SA 3) the rise of Ar Pharazon circa 3200 SA. This is "inspired by" the lore not "based on" it, period.
The one big hole in all of your very well educated speculations is that you are basing it quite heavily in the law. Amazon have changed so much to such a degree I would NOT be at all surprised if e.g Galadriel had been hanging around Sauron and not noticed it. I simply can't compare this to the book anymore because it is so different.
11:20 just a note on this. The non-aboriginal population of Australia is not exclusively or almost exclusively of english ancestry, we're a very mixed very 'mongrel' nation. According to our last census (last year), 33% of Aussies put down 'English' as at least part of their ancestry.
Absolutely spectacular editing and use of headings, love the way they slide in and their format. Thanks for shining light on the language points. Galu and Jess you're doing these videos justice. Thank you very much!
One thing that did bother me a bit about this episode was that the numenorean's where show as primary a cavalry force. I thought they where first and foremost an infantry focused nation.
Maybe “Adar” is only one of those “first Orcs” and is leading a bunch of them in some kind of “petty rebellion”, in which they just want a place to call “their home”. I think he inadvertently creates the conditions to bring Sauron back. (Ps.: Guess who is nearby and WILL be attracted to that volcano going boom?? Yes, the Meteor Man!)
I really don't understand why anybody would think that this episode makes Halbrand as Sauron more likely. Like this channel I don't think Sauron has directly appeared so far. Annatar will likely be shown by the end of the first season pulling strings behind Celebrimbor.
I completely agree there is a lot of lore that supports that he is Sauron...but also there is some of their own story lore that supports that he is Sauron. The fact that he has great pain from the past, and Adar says he killed Sauron I think was the big give away to me.
There's an entire poem about Tilion (or 'the Man in the Moon', who is likely the same person) getting scammed by some bloke in Gondor (possibly Dol Amroth). Probably just made up in-universe, but we do know Tillion does go wandering at times.
A cool episode and the fight scenes were really well put together. Adar seemed very scared of halbrand which makes me think he’s Sauron again! Find it bizarre they keep giving Galadriel and halbrand some weird romantic vibe when I’m pretty sure she’s married and had a child by now?
It would seem to me that in the show Amazon have abandoned all known relationships between the elves as per Tolkiens works. Keep in mind that in Tolkiens works, Galadriel is the great-aunt of Gil-Galad and that Galadriel is Elrond's mother-in-law. Try to fit that into Amazons story.
I got that vibe, but I really hope that its just a strong bromance. This would (following Galu's theory) mean that Halbrands betrayal of isildyr will also be a betrayal of Galadriels friendship.
I didn't get a good look at the map script, but is it possible that Amazon used the fan-created Adunaroth writing for the Adunaic writing? Really, writing with the Feanorean letters, adapted to Adunaic, would have been very well established for more than a thousand years before the social changes deprecated the Elvish languages. To switch to a wholly unintelligible and novel script would be a pretty difficult thing to do, would render old manuscripts illegible, etc. The Nazis changing German typography from Fraktur letters to a more international type style is the closest thing I can think of; and again, there was no novel invented script there. (Tar-Palantir etc. are Quenya, not Sindarin. Aragorn continues in this tradition by taking the name Elessar, not Edhelharn, and Telcontar for 'Strider' the name of his house). The Nine are, in a sense, corrupted before they accept the Rings: they wish to achieve greater temporal power and, especially, to reject the Gift of the One and avoid death. And of course, the Nine are always under the sway of the One Ring, and so these self-described 'lords' were always slaves, and may have come to that realization only gradually (and to their horror in some cases). There is a good character story there, but it may be too subtle for Amazon.
If Halbrand is Sauron hiding his identity why on earth he wants Adar ,who hates him, to remember him? Do you imagine if Adar remembers him as Sauron in front of Galadriel and Numenorians…. Just makes no sense. Probably Adar harmed him or his family and Halbrand was a servant to Sauron. Halbrand will become Khamul or the king of the deads
Thanks for clearing up that point about the usage of the word "uruk", I was confused when I heard it's usage in the show. This might be beyond the scope of the show, but is Minas ithil founded before or after the last alliance? Or does it fall during the war of the last alliance? Also, we've seen the "high" elves and their domainsin the show, is there a chance we might see elves from thranduils realm?
I think Galu gives too much credit to the writers. Halbrand would be a good King of the Dead, but I don't think the writers are that clever haha, he's probably Sauron and The Stranger is probably Gandalf.
2 года назад
I fear that myself a great deal. I am wanting something so much that I am disregarding well founded argument just to suit my narrative. Eurgh. I know that but still, I cling to hope. :-p
@ It's a shame because the writers could create a character that goes onto be the King of the Dead, really surprise us, and it wouldn't really break the lore as Tolkien doesn't cover it. Then introduce Sauron later on in one of his many guises and keep us guessing.
25:27 that's exactly what I was thinking too. They'll have to escape especially after what happened in episode 6 , if this is what truly ends being the future army of the dead , The White mountains aren't that far since Gondor is always neighbouring them . And it's not like Elves or dwarves will let them in lol ( unless they do a twist with Galadriel) but I think since he'll have to be a King of the people, he'll probably want to do it himself and well to be away from Evil, don't think you'll see orcs ever trespassing near those mountainous regions , would make sense as a future hiding place for the people to live at . Away from all that evil . I believe if I'm not mistaken it's said the people of the mountains ended up worshiping Sauron or something like that before finding Gondor ? I think. And we know the Southlanders here have a history with Morgoth and how easily some of them betrayed them into leaving Bronwyn and the others. Could coincide really well with the betrayal like essence in these people .
About the haarfoots and where they want to travel to: If you overlay the maps that are shown in the show, then its going first south to the "grey marches" and then east and up. They were at the end of the episode south of the mountains that are west of Lake Rhun. On Tillion: Reddit said that he is mentioned in a poem in Lotr. Besides that. Yeah he carries the moon. Why would they do that.
My question is did Tolkien get into specifics on how Sauron clouded the skies in Mordor for the orcs to be able to wander without having to worry bout the sun ? Since we do know that the sword/key wasn't Canon Although it would make sense in a way since Saurons love in crafting was amazing, even if he did mostly use his knowledge for evil intentions lol would make sense if he would think of crafting something like a magical sword/key when Especially he delved into stuff like the Morgul blades for the Nazgul. Those were Magical too and of course with the Rings of power. I loved how they showed Mount Doom erupt, to show on how Mordor will eventually be covered in Shadow for thousands of years so the orcs don't have to worry about sunlight anymore..Goes along with the scene in Return of the king movie when Gandalf was talking to Pippin about the skies that it's not a storm coming, but a device of Saurons Making that he uses to shoot ash in the sky and push it towards Minas Tirith so they can easily fight and not have to worry about the sun on them . It would definitely make sense if he is using Mount doom since he loved it so much he had to make his One Ring in the entrance of the volcano. And we do always see smoke coming out of it in the movies of all the shots of Mordor we see. Probably one of my favourite details they did in the show so far. Cool how we'll see the transitions when watching the LOTR movies afterwards when all 5 seasons are out for Rings of Power
23:53 I really like this Theory. I hope it ends up being real. Would go really well with how maybe even having the king status ( which he obviously didn't want ) it's probably gonna put him into this inner turmoil of what he wants and doesn't, gonna make him even more unpredictable, just like how we see he can easily snap like in the episode where he brutally beats down 4 Numenorian people. Would make his attitude even more true just on how easily he wanted to kill Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli without even trying to question them lol Him either thinking bout himself and and the people at the same time and also thinking of other chances like with Isildur and his people in Gondor for examples , multiple things happen simultaneously and probably ends up turning him mad whether on who to help in the end. At least I'd like to think that lol . The armor he wears in episode 5 and 6 actually doesn't look too far off from what the king wears in scene in Return of the king . I'd like to think since the king of the dead clearly still has his crown on in that scene , I wonder if that'll end up being a symbol in the show since couple times Halbrand refused to go back as a King. But instead ( going back to my theory of him having an inner turmoil with himself) doing so turns him into the wrong direction as a good person. Where making him king ends up making these almost like immature decisions down the road as a new king that has no idea how to rule . He'll probably have those moments of like " I'm your king you'll do as I say " or "I'm a king , I Deserve more than this type of kingdom" it's hard to explain a little lol but I want this decision of him to be king with him having a Crown on for the rest of his life ( even when he's cursed to a Barrow Wight type being) to show that this decision internally poisoned his mind kind of . Maybe we'll see him ( if the rumor is true of him becoming this king of the dead . Which I hope it is ) get into arguments, maybe even near a heated fight with Isildur, where he becomes a Denethor like charecter from the Return of the king movie. He seems to have a lot of hidden anger which would make sense towards these decisions. I'd like to see a downfall to a character like that even though it might end up depressing lol cause I'm liking Halbrand so far. Edit : I just thought of a foreshadowing type of thing that would make this choice even more amazing. Since in the Return of the king movie , we see him look at Aragorn in the pass of the mountain just before Gimli interrupts him when he asks " let's find some food " and then he disappears. What's crazy is with this king arc , people compare that he looks and story is almost like Aragorn in a different way. It would be Insane with the eye contact they made , it would be an awesome foreshadow from the show itself when we see that scene . They're practically like 2 different sided versions of the same road of charecters. Both didn't want to be kings on screen and both had fears of it . Aragorn seemed to see the right side of it. Making the better decisions as a future king , but maybe Halbrand would show the bad sides of what it is to become a king and the errors and Downfalls of becoming one . Basically the opposite mirror version of him . And maybe when they both meet , it fills Aragorn with a bit of dread internally but we don't see it. Wth the weight on his shoulders of him deciding and meeting him face to face , he would be thinking like " could I end up being this mad as a King , thriving for Power etc ?" . I'd like to think that would be happening in that future scene . Man I hope he does end up becoming the king of the dead . Would make sooooo much sense
Question! Is it lore-accurate that the Númenóreans have magical cargo-rooms aboard their ships, which can hold way more horses than it looks like they should be able to?
2 года назад
Amazon's disregard for physics isn't something we intend to discuss.
@ This might be me imprinting DaC lore onto LotR, but didnt you mention multiple times that the Numenoreans werent great riders/cavalry fielders? (I mean why would you on an Island) Something about them being too heavy?
Hey, loving these videos and have looked forward to them as a weekly palette cleanser after each episode. I have a couple of questions/discussion points surrounding primarily Adar and the Orcs. Some of it is questions and some of it is speculation, so I'll space each of them out in case Jess wants to crop individual points :) Firstly, I was hoping you could clear up the distinction between Uruk being black speech for Orc, and specific Uruks we see in the Third Age (primarily Uruk-Hai and Black Uruks). I open with this only because I believe that it may be important later, I don't think the scene with Adar and the Orc in the sun from Ep. 5 is just foreshadowing Mount Doom... Secondly I wanted to ask about Adar himself. Ep. 6 goes to great lengths to mirror Adar and Arondir's Elven nature, with Adar engaging in the same "life in defiance of death" practice as Arondir, and also being portrayed as fluent in both Quenya and Black Speech. Does this hint to Adar's original elven origin? By which I mean, does it imply that he was once of the Eldar rather than the Avari? Where could he have been abducted from. I don't know if the Avari ever spoke Quenya or if there's any indication yet as to his pre-Morgoth origins. Finally, for a bit of speculation as alluded to in my first point, do you think Adar's story may by the end culminate in an origin story for the Black Uruks? I know they're technically not supposed to appear until the Third Age but clearly Amazon isn't afraid to shift things around in service of a good story (as adaptations should), we know Saruman was abducting Elves from Lorien in order to make his Uruk-Hai, can you think of perhaps any highly-sackable Elven cities that could provide plenty of elves to drag back to Mordor and create the first of the Black Uruks? (I'm mainly just asking if there's any reason you can think of that they couldn't/wouldn't do that) Again thanks for putting out these videos, and I hope you'll consider a brief return to RU-vid when Season 2 drops to do more of them
Thanks for your spacing, it is very much appreciated 😁 Thanks for the discussion points too. I hope we come back for series 2 but I have a feeling there will be a large gap between releases from Amazon so we'll have to see 😊🤞
My question is what is the geographical placing of the village, the tower fort and the trenches the orcs dug in the south lands/ Mordor? I’m quite confused where everything is, the lake that then floods mount doom especially. Is the lake in the valley behind where the black gate would be? Or is it nearer Mt doom?
We see a map of Mordor in episode 6 - The watchtower is in the 'middle' of the ephel duath, nestled in the corner of the small outcropping mountain range. It is south of where Cirith Ungol would come to be. The southlander village is roughly due south of Orodruin / Mount Doom.
Hey Galu and Jess! Thanks for a great video! A question: If you have the time, was wondering if you could explain how magic works in middle earth. I was under the impression that magic was more the explanation the excuse for when people didn't know what else to call something or reserved for the few like the maiar. But I've seen people wanting more magic from galadriel so I am just a bit confused on how it works. Some people have suggested that should've cast like a shield bubble around the town at the end of this episode to save it from the volcano but I didn't think that was possible. I hope that makes sense, thank you for making these videos!
God I hope Halbrand isn't Sauron. One thing sustains that hope : the fact that Adar killed Sauron means that Sauron could very well be sent back with his memory partly taken from him,similarly to another Maiar who was resurrected and forgot his previous name upon re-arriving to middle earth : Gandalf
5:05 hear you on that one. there wouldn't even be a need to "defend" amazon (and the show runners) if there weren't so many "Tolkien expert" cosplayers online getting their lore all muddled, twisted and then spread like it's fact. 20:55 afaik, amazon can negotiate for anything outside of LOTR, Appendices and the Hobbit. Tolkien estate already approved them name-dropping Armenelos for example in episode 4. we really don't know what else they gave amazon a green light to do and i would've believed the theory about Halbrand most likely being King of the Oathbreakers up until the whole "quest for mithril" storyline was brought up (and i'm firmly in the camp with those who believe that Annatar was the one to sell mithril as the cure for fading to Celebrimbor). so Halbrand/Annatar being on a raft close to Númenór doesn't seem like such a coincidence anymore. and it would also make sense why he and his company got attacked by (i theorize) one of Ulmo's creatures but him and Galadriel together were left alone. so as of now, we have an established realm of Mordor as we know it in the Third Age, Adar who's escaped or was more likely taken away and a very interesting scene in which (i think) Galadriel finally caught on that there's something off about Halbrand and she managed to sense it while they were both fighting (remember the one other time we saw him fight in the show, we all sensed something was off there too). that all leads to Halbrand/Annatar being free to either rid himself of real Adar permanently before taking his form and place as the leader of Orcs in Mordor or maybe make some sort of deal where they would work together in the future. either way, everything is now set up for the Second Age events that are supposed to unfold. very far-fetched, i know 😂 but if there's anything this show excels at, it's misdirection, so you never know of course, thank you both for another great video.
Stranger = Radagast? Also, does it not take Sauron 100+ years to build Barad-dur? so every human and harfoot we meet will just be dead by the end, even if they live a normal peaceful life.
I forgot what the show called Adar as one of the first elves turned Uruks (Moiveren,? m-something), does this have basis in the lore? Were the first Uruks elves who turned to Morgoth willingly and subsequentially underwent changes, or were they captured/tortured/twisted into becoming what they are now?
Here's a question I'd like to submit for the show as a whole. Based on each episode as a separate entity, how would you rate each episode on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the worst and 10 being the best?
@@nottheeviltwin2 I figured I'd request it now because by the time we're at a season end, it might be more difficult to differentiate the different episodes. Some of the other channels I watch have been giving a scaled overview for each individual episode, which has helped see differences in quality.
@@Huskytabby that's true 🤔 we've been avoiding heavy opinions on the episodes themselves so far because the viewership can be very passionate but we'll see if we could encorporate a pragmatic scale of sorts 😊
@@nottheeviltwin2 That would be great! Yeah, I mean you wouldn't have to deep dive into for sure like/dislike things, just the blanket number rating :)
Is the bit where Elendil turns into a horse whisperer accurate? What is this ability that he demonstrates, is it just his connection to the elves that allows him to do that?
Well, I'm on the side of Halbrand beeing Sauron. As far as the show's production goes if I remember correctly they can't change the key points of the story; Gil-Galad has to die, Elendil has to die, Numenor has to sink. The fall of the island was caused by Sauron being there: Halbrand arrived there. In the book, he first was imprisoned then became a key figure; Halbrand was imprisoned then became a key figure. Sauron is a master blacksmith; Halbrand stated in the brawling episode that he is the best smith on the island. Adar doesn't remember him, because after betraying Sauron, he changed appearances. If Halbrand is really a king in exile, wouldn't he say something to Galadriel or to the numenoians about a former lieutenant of Sauron killing people and stuff? I really do like this change and honestly I don't really have a problem with Sauron and Galadriel hooking up - first he kills her brother then gets together with her; Sauron the Chad.
Theory; is Gil-Galad actually Sauron? Also some of the high ranking soldiers of Numeanor become nazgul? (like you said Pharazon's son? Maybe Isildur's daughter?) Also, where do they keep all of those horses, where do they keep 500 soldiers on 3 boats?!?! How on earth with those tiny boats could you fit that many soldiers???
Theory crafting is the worst element of these shows, nobody engages with media because they think it's just like a puzzle box toy Lord of the rings tells you what the ring is. Who sauron is and the entire plot in literally the first 5 minutes of the movie. Its never been about mysteries and theories, the story is about how they deal with the rings influence.
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere so I am going to ask you. In episode 4 where Tar-Miriel is taking Galadriel to the Palantir, we get glimpes of various artifacts which to my knowledge could be the below: 1) Narsil. 2) Tuor's axe or possibly Hurin's axe? 3) Tuor's winged shield. Any opinions on that?
I think we've seen Narsil there. About Hurin's Axe: "Húrin fought with the battle axe until the axe itself withered away from the caustic blood of the trolls he had been slaying." Idk about Tuor's shield.
When Adar and Arondir pray for the Valar before a battle by planting seeds of a plant, which Valar would they be praying to? I thought Yavanna, since she is the Valar of "nature" and things that grow. But then why would Adar pray to Yavanna, or any other Valar besides Melkor when he himself is a creation of Melkor.
Given that the sun and moon are both made from the remnants of the two trees, why are the orcs only ‘allergic’ to the light of the sun and not the moon?
I have a question about the name of Mordor. Was this region always called that way or only after Sauron took it as his realm? To me it wouldn't really make sense to call this region "dark land" before he does that, or atleast the eruption of Mount Doom, if we use dark in a literal sense. Same goes for related regions and places like "Morgul Pass", "Mount Doom", "Udun" etc. How would those regions be called by people in the second age? Also thanks for the videos.
if Adar is no friend of or not working for Sauron then why is he leading his orc minions in the task of facilitating the eruption of mount doom? if it is not on the orders of Sauron, who presumably would benefit from the creation of mount doom as part of his plan to establish his special version of perfect order, then is Adar also pursuing a similar goal as Sauron?
While you gave yourself the answer. His goals are similar but so different that he killed him. At least he tells us. Even and especially Sauron could tell us so.
@ I think Sauron could have easily manipulated Adar to aid in the creation of Mordor, whilst he's off doing other things, and letting Adar believe that he killed him. Would explain how Adar knew of the sword/key device.
Melkor corrupted their spirits. Balrogs were Maiar (like Gandalf and Saruman) corrupted by Morgoth during the creation of Arda, probably during his discordance in the Music of the Ainur. Werewolves were servants of Sauron, fell beasts (wolves) inhabited by dreadful spirits that Sauron had imprisoned in their bodies.
And that’s perfectly okay! It’s been hit or miss for me tbh. This one was a better episode but not much has really happened up until this point. The Peter Jackson trilogy and the Hobbit trilogy are still significantly better imo
The action was entertaining, but that's all there was going on. And you really had to take your brain out of your skull to find the action entertaining too. The scale of the battle was very confusing. "Hold on, more orcs?" "Hold on, still more orcs?" "HOLD ON, NOW THE NUMENORIANS ARE COMING TOO?"
It's bordering parody for me but I'm still sort of enjoying it. I find it entertaining in the same way I find the Transformers films entertaining, not high quality story, kinda dumb, nice looking, decent though nonsensical action.
The one thing about last episode was how the Numenorians found the Village just at the right time! P.s Am guessing Halbrand knew where to go. Oh the point you made re Lord of the rings based on any cultures/peoples didnt Tolkien base the people of Rohan on say Anglo-Saxon When Gandalf comforts Theoden isnt that old English?
Biggest issues with Episode 6. Abandoned a defensible location to fight in a village. The Orcs seem more like fools in combat, than actual equivalents to the normal manling Water flowed up a mountain Numenorians landed where? And some how traveled in a day or short time across the sea and into the middle of Mordor without any attrition, or issues Nuemonrian armor is absolute trash Elendil the Tall is portrayed like a weak man Isildurs char. development is absolutely awful Galadriel continues to be a teenage girl, rather than a wise powerful firstborn elf who has ruled kingdoms and is literally married by this time with children. Non-fighters suddenly became experts in combat etc etc. The show is horrific. Makes little to no sense for Mirel a queen of numenor to be at the head of an army, let alone at the head of a very small army. Traveling so deeply into middle earth.
Yes, specially that human woman that's inlove with an Elf. She's like a fkin killin machine. And canot be killed, it seems. I was really happy when the orcs hit her with arrows, and i thought: "alright, she dead now"...but then 5 min after she was fine already.
One small note: Yrch (with a Y) is actually the plural (ie Orcs), and the singular is Orch. I understand confusion though as I think we only see Yrch in the text, when some are ambushing Legolas yells it IIRC. I also think you're wrong about Quenya in the second age. Quenya is certainly the original language of Númenor and would absolutely be Galadriel's mother tongue. It's certainly arguable that Arondir would not speak it as his first language but he would probably still be able to and would speak to Galadriel in it. The other Ñoldor also should speak it to each other, especially on ceremonial occasions or when they are those Noldor who saw Valinor.
I saw someone pointing out that the arm guard of Halbrand is indeed the same arm guard which the king of the dead is wearing in LOTR. Or at least it looks really similar. Just a small detail probably guiding us towards who he once will be.
Galadriel says that she is gonna eradicate the orcs entirely however later in the lord of the rings she is really only concerned with protecting Lorien why do you think she ends her orc killing spree does the return and eventual defeat of Sauron make her believe that the remaining few orcs are no longer a threat to middle earth?
The problem being: how did they brought the water up the slopes of the vulcano (Mt. Doom). This thing could teoreticly work where there is magma underground at plate boundaries, but not with the mountain like volcano. Theory: the stranger could still simply be Gandalf.
I think, besides in LoTR and the Hobbit, Tolkien also mentions Boldog. I don’t know if he counts as an orc tho, considering he’s a Maiar shaped as an orc
Minor addition on Uruk: Uruk-hai is probably not a term coined by humans for saruman's breed of soldiers, since the uruk-hai use it themselves- "we are the fighting uruk-hai" and such. I really wish Tolkein had left us more information on what set the Uruk-hai apart, in the first two books there's a couple of mentions of men mixed with orcs/uruks, but Uruk-hai meaning "orc-folk" doesn't necessarily confirm that.
In the start of the second era it sorts of make sense. They hadnt fully integrated yet. Adar would recognize Galadriel for who she is and speak to her in quenya to show he isnt just a mindless orc. Quenya literally means speaker. He's showing her hes just as sapient and capable of intellect and culture as her Edit: Your missus understood what was going on with adar perfectly, when you immediately bark out it might make it seem like you think she's saying something off or. It'd be intimidating for anyone to discuss lore next to you lol.
Also, it makes sense for some extremely old elves like Galadriel to use old phrases from their youth. It's like Italian immortals, occasionally using latin, though everybody around them speak Italian by now.
As far as I'm aware Galu's not entirely accurate, probably for conciseness: Quenya was the main elven language developed in Aman (the West) and it remained in use there even as the elves on Middle Earth mostly spoke Sindarin. This is also why it's mostly the elves who have been to/returned from Aman who know/speak Quenya. So it's quite possible that to those elves Quenyan was closer to them, the way the language(s) you learn from birth are generally preferred by us. So it's possible/likely they spoke it amongst eachother and in written and musical art. Over time these elves mostly adopt Sindarin which was the commonly spoken elven language on Middle Earth. Which also makes sense, really. But like I wrote I imagine some of them still used Quenya from time to time. Disclaimer: not too well-versed in the lore so I'm happy to be corrected.
When I watched the episode I got a strong feeling that they want us to think that Halbrand is Sauron, given 1) his affinity for smithing, 2) his antipathy to Adar was never explained, AND Adar saying he killed Sauron, how they cut the scenes, moving focus to Halbrand each time Sauron was discussed e.g. Galadriel questioning scene.
with the last episode being called Udun, is this a reference to Gandalf when he fought the Balrog in Moria during the Third age (In the movie I think he says: I am the wielder of the sacred flame, flame of Udun?)? Or is there another significance to the episode's title?
Hi Galu/Jess I have a question that probably veers into speculation. I agree that Sauron hasn't been shown yet (or they've hid him very well!). Lore-wise which would make more sense: that he's in Eregion whispering to Celebrimbor, or in Númenor influencing Ar-Pharazon? Or poncing about somwhere else?
If they keep the chronology it's very clear. Sauron appears in Eregion to help the elves create the rings (he does so openly and in apparent friendship, but I suppose they could twist that bit). When they're done, he returns to Mordor to make the One (Barad-dûr has at this point been established for 600 years). The elves become aware of him and a big war begins. As part of that war, Eregion is destroyed, the relations with the dwarves terminated, Elrond establishes Imladris, and Lindon is saved by a huge Númenórean fleet arriving in the nick of time. Sauron retreats to Mordor and continues building up his power and influence in the East and South, thus coming in conflict with now-beginning-to-go-corrupt Númenor. More than a thousand years later, Ar-Pharazôn decides he wants to stick it to Sauron, lands at Umbar with a gigantic fleet (the most resplendent army ever in the history of Middle-earth, short maybe only of the host of the Valar). Sauron feigns surrender, and lets himself be transported to Númenor where he becomes a prisoner and begins his work that leads to the Downfall. In short: lore-wise he'd be poncing about in Mordor, establishing his realm, planning to appear in Eregion to help make the rings. Bending the lore slightly, he _might_ already be there in secret, whispering in Celebrimbor's ear (requires some rewriting but not too much). Him being in Númenor _now_ is nonsensical.
You give them too much credit in assuming the show runners using Quenia that there is a deep rational. They are simply lifting the lines from the LOTR as a copy and paste
Hi Galu & Jess, A question about the end of episode 6: Black blood is seen on Galadriel/Finrod’s dagger after attacking Adar. Since Adar is an elf, is the black blood meant to signify his corruption / full transition into an orc? Was hoping there might be some sort of redemption arc after interacting with other elves such as Arondir & Galadriel. Apologies if this was addressed in the video, must’ve missed it Thanks
I have literally spent the last 2 hours trying to find you again on RU-vid after watching all your lore videos years ago. It was SO hard but thankfully I’ve made my way back eventually by searching by my years old RU-vid history. Best knowledge of anyone on here by far. So glad to see you’re still making videos.
We're very pleased you did find his channel again 😁 hopefully these videos will fill in the lore shaped gap in your YT viewing 🤞😊
2 года назад
I was thinking about that just yesterday actually. I wondered if, all those years ago when I started, I had chosen a simpler name, would I have found better success. :-P
@ This is what I wrote on Reddit to track you down 😂 “Hoping you can help. I used to watch a RU-vidr who had really ace content talking about various aspects of Tolkien lore but now I can't find him anywhere. Here's what I remember. All his thumbnails for his lore videos were black with white writing and a little white logo in the middle. He was British. I think he used to play Rugby in his spare time. I think his name was something like Arathur Galdulfin (that will be wrong but it looked Tolkien and I think the initials were AG) He started every video by saying something that sounded like Mae Govvannen Melanin and Well Met. Most of the videos on his channel were of a game he played a modded LOTR version of. Total war I think. Someone must know him, l'm dying to find his vids again, his knowledge was incredible.”
2 года назад
Almost spot on. Hahaha. Did you get a reply on reddit?
Hey guys! May be a little late with my speculative question as I have just managed to catch up on the show this evening. My question is - Could the watch tower that is pretty much destroyed at this point in the series, eventually become Cirith Ungol? P.s thanks for these videos guys 😁
No, the Sun and Moon were created when the elves left Valinor. The first sunrise coincides with the host of Fingolfin arriving upon the shores of Middle-earth after braving the Helcaraxë, and the awakening of Men. It was steered by the Maia Arien, and the moon by Tilion. Eärendil, Elrond's father, comes into the story at the very end of the first age, when he comes back with a Silmaril to Valinor to ask the Valar for their aid in the fight against Morgoth. He isn't allowed to leave Valinor for Middle-earth but instead resides in a third ship in the heavens with the Silmaril on his brow, which is the Evening Star, watching the Doors of Night.
In the beginning of the episode, Isildur says something along the lines of "It's not the real Numenor... if such thing ever even existed". What did he mean by that? Is this Numenor supposed to be some sort of Numenor 2.0? What was the 1.0 then? I don't remember reading anything of that sort.
There was never any room for him not being a Maia. Elves and humans don't fall from the sky, survive that and then show obvious signs of strong magic while still confused from the crash to Arda. :) Thus, unless he's some fresh creation who somehow never got mentioned in the legendarium, he needs to be one of the known Maia - one of the Istari or Sauron (or Balrog, but that theory is silly IMHO).
@@oerthling I’m starting to think he could be Sauron. By the way, he was nearby when Orodruin exploded in the last episode. Somehow he will be attracted to that explosion.
The origin of Orodruin (and Mordor): "14 No doubt because Gil-galad had by then discovered that Sauron was busy in Eregion, but had secretly begun the making of a stronghold in Mordor. (Maybe already an Elvish name for that region, because of its volcano Orodruin and its eruptions - which were not made by Sauron but were a relic of the devastating works of Melkor in the long First Age. )" PoMe, LW, Glorfindel
Easy. Adar thinks he's doing great things for his people and conquer a land to free his Uruks. But all the while, Sauron the manipulator, is behind it all and he gets his realm prepared in secret while even his minions don't realize they fulfill his plan.
Hey Jess the lovely she-elf, can you please ask the half-orc next to you - I've never read the silmarillion (Don't shoot!) but gleaned a bit from Galu over the months. What exactly are the powers of the elf ("elf magic") and also curses - how do they have power? I'm thinking of Glorfindel against the Witch King, and Isildur when he cursed the king of the mountain. Just to clarify what i'm asking - I know creation happened by essentialy a song battle, and I remember Illuvitar(?) saying something like "you will find everything, even your song, will prove me and my will to be the ultimate power" or something. Are the enactments of these curses essentialy Illuvitars song/harmonies "overpowering" Melkors and leading to outcomes that are more pwerful than physics, ie. supernatural events? I'm also wondering if something like this happens here when galadrial presumably (🤣) survives, and perhaps saves everyone else. A bit like Gandalf being a "point of the spear" of the secret fire when he raises his hand and banishes the winged riders, maybe she opens accepts Gods will (having rejected the offer to go accoss the sea) and then is suddenly filled with his light, banashing the fiery cloud of darkness (speculation 🤣). There is an element to which this would follow the Catholic faith regarding miracles...
It has been leaked from an inside source that Halbrand is indeed a form of Sauron or Sauron himself. I cannot stress how reliable this source is. It irks me how people are still speculating on it even though it is fairly obvious without knowledge of the leak. Stop repeating he's the oathbreaker king unless you have a truer inside source.
2 года назад
I think you have missed the point of speculation. The fun is in the journey, not the destination. Also, don't tell me what to do, ask. This is a shared society: you are not the main character.
@ Speculating on such an abomination of original creation and storytelling is way beyond me at this point but i value your work all these years on the mod and the fanbase all together that i keep watching this video series. There is no fun in this journey, the only joy i get from this show is by the cringe and stupidity it emanates as it goes on, and i'm into that. At the same time i feel anger for the 1 billion dollars wasted on this nothingness. You are right i can't tell you to stop, i can and i did tell you what i know and you have a choice on speculating right or wrong based on that. Cheers
2 года назад
@@ajavierb2078 It is good manners to ask that people do things, not tell them. If standing up against that is worthy of your hate, then I don't wish to know you.
Why are so many people convinced that Meteor Man is one of the blue wizards? Why would Amazon use a blue wizard who is supposed to wander off to the east, while Amazon is free to use one of the 3 well known Istari. Radagast would at least be a known name people recognize from The Hobbit movies. And he could we'll have been a while with the hobbits before he goes native with the trees and squirrels. Gandalf would be cool and well known and great for marketing. And my favorite would be Saruman. Well known and the most interesting choice. Why would Amazon use a boring blue wizard when they could have cool Saruman?
@@marcogrady107 Yeah, but Tolkien was inconsistent about the rest arriving in SA or TA, so Amazon would be totally free to use one of the 3 better known wizards and still be OK with at least one original version of the lore.
Well that would have to be because the three Istari we properly know of came all together directly to Mithlond during the Third Age, if I remember correctly, which is when Cirdan gifts Narya (I think?) to him, considering him the greatest of the three Edit: this is just what I remember of the top of my head tho, I might be totally and completely in the wrong
For one, established lore. The Istari don't show up until the Third Age, but there are versions of the legendarium where the blue wizards arrive in the second age already. Secondly, for the mystery. The fate of the blue wizards is not definitively set out by Tolkien, there is room to speculate that they confronted Sauron on their own and either successfully disturbed his sway over men of the East, or that they were actually corrupted by Sauron and failed in their quest. Could be both with one wizard staying good and one turning to the darkness. This gives more room for writers to explore new narratives.
@@adumbassroomba In one version, yes. But Tolkien changed things throughout the decades, sometimes rearranging whole family trees. And there's also a version where they arrived in SA already. And my favorite option is Saruman. The most interesting choice and no Ring from Cirdan in Mithlond problem. Plus, this is an adaptation of a book of old legends (to which Amazon doesn't even have full rights). Having an Istari drop from the heavens Instead of arriving by boat would be a forgivable small change. Especially after they already had to compress so much Numenorean and especially Eregions history.
Galu and Mrs Galu, Question: Wasn’t Sauron/Anatar on Numenor when Eru nuked it? He surrendered to them when they laid the smackdown on his armies of Middle Earth, and took him back to Numenor, right? He then quickly corrupted the politics of Numenor and fanned the flames of “they are wrongly keeping immortality from us,” so we should go confront the West. Anatar hen shows up middle earth to learn from and help with making the rings. Right? You guys are awesome. Been enjoying you for many years, thank you.
You have the timeline backwards. The Rings were made 1700 years BEFORE the destruction of Numenor. Sauron took the fair guise of Annatar (Lord of Gifts) and corrupted the Elven Smiths of Eregion by teaching them how to forge the Rings of Power in SA 1600. Sauron forges the One and the War of Elves and Sauron takes place. The Numenorians come to the aid of the Elves. Sauron has to retreat and it takes centuries for him to rebuild his strength. After Sauron has rebuilt his strength and again began to try to take over Middle-earth, the Numenorians under Ar Pharazon then again come to Middle-earth to confront Sauron and Sauron's forces waiver. Sauron allows himself to be taken prisoner and taken back to Numenor (SA 3255). Like you said he corrupts the Numenorians although I would not say quickly (66 years). Sauron is on Numenor when Eru remakes the world (SA 3319) and is caught in its destruction. Sauron's spirit makes its way back to Middle-earth and it takes years for him to regain enough strength to take physical form again, but he is never able to take a fair form again. An important note is that the Nazgul first appeared around SA 2251 so about a thousand years BEFORE Numenor's destruction. Although "first appeared" is open to interpretation, did all Nine appear at the same time or did it take longer for some to fall to the power of their Ring? Also some may have been given their Ring later than others received theirs.
