Thank you to all of the speakers, and the facilitator, for an insightful and in-depth discussion that shed light onto so many of the facets of this profound discovery announced yesterday. It is wonderful to see such great minds so excited with the potential of discovery that the detection of gravitational waves has brought to us all. It is a wonder to behold all of the amazing realizations of what physics comprises the astounding universe that we are part of, and witness to, and hear it explained and observed is such amazing detail. Somehow the in-depth insight seems to not only inform but add depth to the appreciation of the intrinsic beauty of it all. Keep up the good work great scientists, curious and creative minds ... and keep up the good work Perimeter Institute, your efforts are valued and appreciated by many ... Onwards!
Loved this panel and moderation. To people like me who are not scientists but have been following developments in astronomy the information presented was just at the right level and thought provoking.
The big bang wasn't a beginning of the universe but a change in state of the universe with the emergence of space/time. The properties of the universe without space/time are hard for us to observe. The "spooky action at a distance" of quantum entanglement seem to have properties independent of space/time and may offer a glimpse of a non-space/time universe.
+cad80 24 I am familiar with these sorts of issues debated in theoretical physics well enough, at least, to acknowledge Dan's post as well grounded and valid as regards such deeply probing questions. His head is nicely placed well outside of the box, and I detected no idiocy there. But please to us explain more fully, cad, why you think otherwise.
+Kalum Batsch Dan's post doesn't give answers, but what he says is not entirely without justification. He's pointing out that what happened *before* the Big Bang may well be that the universe existed in a different state that didn't count what we call "space" or "time" among its properties; its an interesting idea that has been proposed elsewhere as well. The view of quantum entanglement as "spooky action at a distance" is wrong and stems from an attempt to impose classicality on the quantum world, but within that context his conjecture that it may reveal something about a timeless and spaceless state of the universe makes sense.
***** "its an interesting idea that has been proposed elsewhere as well." Where? Unless you define what, if anything, you actually mean by "a different state that didn't count what we call "space" or "time" among its properties" it's meaningless gibberish.
Kalum Batsch You may find this interesting: www.space.com/17217-big-bang-phase-change-theory.html Note that the article says this idea was "first put forth" at the Perimeter Institute in 2006, but I'm fairly certain I'd encountered it before that. As for defining what it *is*, I don't know how to satisfy your intuition. It's a background of some type that doesn't have spacetime as a property. Perhaps a quantum version of gravity will show that general relativity is a particular quantum state of something more fundamental. Nima Arkani-Hamed is well-known for stating that spacetime is a doomed concept; what's going to replace it is as yet unknown.
Will not changing the distance between the moon and the earth and changing the curvature of space-time and the gravitational waves that cause more curvature of space-time around the earth pose a danger to satellites around the earth?
20:24 The way I remember it was more like how he described a few seconds earlier, where the calculation was off by a factor of two, and we had to figure out why that was (which didn't take long). Perhaps I have misunderstood.
In effect, gravitation can be considered to be the reflected image of inflation, the distributed connection of modulated e-Pi-i multi-phase/timing-spectrum resonances in the "One Electron" Theory format. It's the only way to still use Big Bang theory, as a "one side of the coin" thought experiment in keeping with the Observable Universe that turns emitted/Timing-spacing insideout and back to condensed orbital/orbits of compound multi-phase-locked objectives. LIGO is "better technology" for reading the cause-effect modulation of Time Timing at the level of gravitational waves, lensed off an atomic focus, which is the natural occurring effect of interference positioning Image integration of the Holographic Principle.., and so is the CMB. Professor Turok has pointed out that the Actuality of Time Timing sync applies to the BB theory and therefore by implication to contained, continuous creation-principle modulation/interference, universally.
Yes this is all well and good, but do they say at which frequency gravity can be heard? The human ear can range from 20-20Khz, This all seems to fit the descriptions set by Coral Castle and Nikola Tesla's idea of sound levitation. In the Vedas they even speak about sound existing as a form of SpaceTime.
Though I am not a trained physicist, I do have some appreciation for the magnitude of this discovery. My question (1/many) is this: I assume that all objects within the wave, including the LIGO machine itself, were impacted my the brief altering of space-time. How does LIGO avoid having its data corrupted by the very machine taking the measurements as the wave alters it? Is there a correction algorithm or some other simple and obvious design element that accounts for this? Thank you.
+sustayne Each LIGO installation consists of two arms at right angles; as the gravitational wave passes, it affects the lengths of the arms differently. It is that difference in arm length that LIGO is designed to detect.
gravity fields slow clocks,proven aboard aircraft at 40k feet earth clocks run slower,out where these 2 neutron stars with the illumination and power of millions of earth suns,, what would that effect factor out to?
I was wondering when i went to bed drunk last month and i woke up with diarrhea then woke up later again with my underwear over my pyjamas with some slight poo, musta been the gravitational ripple of space time, i'll look out for it in the future
The "wave" was detected at significantly different times, considering relativity, and that indicates that it was *not* a gravity wave which would be instantaneous between the two sites. Besides that, how can the putative "gravity waves" escape the event horizon of two colliding black holds; since not even light can escape to arrive here, on Earth?
It wasn't detected at significantly different times, they were detected at times which indicate the gravitational wave is moving between them at the order of the speed of light.
IamGrimalkin The signal traveled 1.3 Billion light years (claimed). So, is the "gravity wave" directional? Did the "signal" arrive at Pluto before it arrived at Earth? And, how about those two event horizons? Only "gravity waves" can escape a Black Hole? What "particle" can escape an event horizon if light cannot? Wake up ...
+tongmaa Yes, it passed pluto first before it passed earth. The gravitational waves don't come from inside the black hole as such, they come from the black hole's gravitational feild.
IamGrimalkin Wow! Did you check to see if the Earth was in position closer to the "signal" than was Pluto? I doubt it, from someone who automatically believes in the inventions of Science-fiction ...
tongmaa Yes I did actually. Pluto is 130 degrees right ascension and -6 degrees delineation, whilst the gravitational wave is from roughly 120 degrees right ascension and -70 degrees delineation (although there is quite a large error in this, look at the fig. 4 on this paper, 1 hour=15 degrees right ascension arxiv.org/pdf/1602.03840.pdf). Therefore the gravitational wave source and Pluto are both on the same side of the earth and the gravitational wave must have hit Pluto first. Of course this localisation is based on the assumption that the gravitational wave moves between the detectors at exactly the speed of light, if it doesn't the area moves.
Only Neil Turok and MC make sense. Others should not have been invited to this panel. Just because you are a good scientist that is not enough to make you a good communicator. This is important event and you are supposed to make sense when you stand in front of the world and try to explain the discovery to general public. PI is wonderful institution but needs adequate individuals for public relations.
+autotrance I believe this is the reason some of the same people get all the attention and tv show gigs over and over again. They may not be the best scientists, or even people, but they can speak to the general public and make sense.
+Kalum Batsch Not at all, even though I am dumber in comparison to the dumbest person in that auditorium, I think it is important that such discoveries are communicated to general public in a way let say for example Mr. Turok does, or Mr. Kip Thorne does. Or Neil deGrasse Tyson does. I loved the way Mr. Thorne talked at the NSF announcement about the discovery. He has a natural way of being clear and concise, and simple, and efficient with words. And it does help to be a native English speaker as well.
Everyone wants to get into the ACT! But here's the truth, or at least, the other side of the story. *On gravitational wave detection.* *This LIGO detection device is ultimately driven by software.* LIGO equipment records terabytes (1000's of gigabytes) of data every day, then by using computer software ( a search engine ) which searches through this vast database for the expected preconceived signal (data pattern) called template. And who created the templates? Answer; these templates were created by the scientist the mathematical theoreticians. In totality there are 250,000 templates. Some would say this is a point were scientific bias is introduced into the experiment. It could be argued, that the signals were created before the phenomena was observed . *Dubious methodology susceptible to misinterpretation* *The LIGO selected output is susceptible to misinterpretation* because the so-called chirp is actually a typical decay signature. In fact this type of signature can be replicated by a spinning coins experiment. Then the question should be asked; is it possible that this chirp could have been generated by something other than a black holes merger? I suspect that this frenzy for these detection of gravitational waves, could be a prelude to a scientific debacle! The epicycles of the 21st century. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EjI-HUzA03U.html
I can don't say anything never, but in this awesome need of find the fabric of cosmos maybe someone tell me what about the light himself. Now are some devices like Kepler telescope in the circuits of such device are electrons and event from collapsing two black holes can by seen in some way and receive like fluctuacion differential in measurement of this device even if it watching at the different part of space. Can be more deeper such fluctuacion in time and space can be received by atmos clocks i don't know where but this kind of devices are a lot in different places on the earth and beside her. For me is a spacetime only, don't bother at this comment, only i wanna say what is in my imagination. Maybe i have her alot, maybe too more. And nowhere i could not find anything about other devices running all the time.
Please allow me to challenge the USA scientists by questioning you claims of having detected gravitional waves from exactly that two specific blackholes. How can you prove beyond reasonable doubt those were gravitational waves that came exactly precisely from the two blackholes?
Because nothing else could produce this kind of signal. There are other possible sources of gravitational waves but those signals would look different.
+Cosmo John I would guess the answer to that depends on whether you're talking about "reasonable doubt" among physicists and astronomers who understand general relativity, or "reasonable doubt" among random people on the street who don't quite know who Isaac Newton was. As to "exactly precisely", it depends on what level of precision you intend to insist upon. The masses of the two black holes are *about* 36 and 29 solar masses; these values come from numerical simulations, and necessarily have associated uncertainties.
@@penguinuprighter6231But this is a *Echo chamber* by definition; *"an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered."* Like a church or synagogue or cult following.
@@rubenanthonymartinez7034 None of that applies to accepted science conducted by experts. It's just bullshit pretzel logic spit up by deniers like yourself, like vomiting in the comments. I suppose you think Wal Thornhill and his merry band of grifters are telling the truth.
+Cosmo John That seems an enormously expensive proposition, yet all the treasure spent on war in the Middle East (along with its dismal results) within the last 15 years might add some perspective in support of your proposal.
+criscokiddo Going forward, usa will need to beg China to fund their space explorations. China will own many nobel laureattes even. USA is bankrupt, regretfully speaking.
+Cosmo John why??? it would cost so much ... we will have a LIGO in space with the distance between mirrors of thousands to a million kms ... This if the morons in the gov don't cut science funding ...
+CeaoS LISA has already been cut in the US, NASA have pulled out, it's going because of ESA. What would be nice is that this discovery might convince NASA to join back onto the LISA project, it might launch sooner then.
IamGrimalkin NASA hasn't totally backed out, they will be a junior partner ... afaik But we will have to wait, I think, 20 years to see LISA into space.
Wow these videos attract among the worst of internet commenters, apparently. Interesting... Anyway, Neil Turok strikes me as biased (too much, not just the normal level of bias) after watching several videos involving him.
F=Delta t'C. Take time dilation, multiply it by the speed of light and that's Force. A centrifuge goes 45.9 microseconds slower on an atomic clock than an outer atomic clock at 1 G over 24 hours. At 50 Gs for an entire year it creates .837 seconds time dilation. Any time any particle goes near C time dilates on it and that is a gravity wave. I can't teach you fast enough. Einstein taught us all to hate authority, because he knew you. You seriously suck until you put micro time dilation movements into the Lorentz and start measuring the universe with clocks, instead of hiding massive crime and corruption in your classes.
This smells like bunk. The big bang universe and the black hole universe are two different and exclusive things. There are four black hole universe theories and three major big bang theories. Big bang can’t have black holes and black hole universe can’t have started by a big bang. Steven Hawking has given up on black holes in favor of Rudy Schild’s MECO’s. MECO’s have no mass at their center. They are voids surrounded by powerful magnetic vortex. And the legs that hold up the Big Bang model were cut by Halton Arp 30 years ago. It has not fallen because it is supported by math O magic that does not and can not be verified by observation. It is a joke. Seven theories of the universe all more or less wrong.
I said nothing about Einstein. Hah. But he has been proven wrong just about everything. Ok Victor think about this. Time marked from the stat of big bang till now in seconds are a number that looks like this 10^17. That is all the seconds that have ever been. Now gravity is very very weak. If gravity is set at 1 then electromagnetism is 10^37 times stronger. Ok can you fit that number in your head in relation to all the time from the big bang being only 10^17. Gravity is 1. This number is math speak for gravity has zero effect or force over star distance. Ok one level deeper. How we measure gravity is by something called the inverse square law. That is F=G mass 1 + mass 2 divided by the distance times the distance. The distance ( 1.3 b lys) squared is some like 1.726^16 This is in light years. So you would have to take this number in light years and make it into miles. This is big number in miles. Gravity is very very weak and has no effect from 1.3 billion light years away. The whole thing is a scam. If you took one atom and another atom 11 million miles away and say atom 1 has a gravity effect on atom 2. It just is not measurable because it does not exist at a measurable scale.
Victor Keesee Ok so I am wrong. That is something that science rarely says. Gravitational waves still smell like bunk to me. So were the objects stars or black holes?
Victor Keesee Thanks for that. I am leaning toward black holes having no matter. They are collapsing magnetic objects in space. See Dr Rudy Schild form Harvard. His theory of MECO’s make a big step away from the old black hole model. If true then those objects were massive magnetic fields that merged without any issue or perturbation at all. Gravity being the primary force in the universe is shaky on a good day. How would gravity explain magnetic fields and magnetic clouds connecting Galactic Super clusters ? This is observable.
ha ha - they recorded a magnetic "blip". Their problem is all these assumptions that they make. I thought scientists were supposed to think critically...
Mike Lentsch actually the gravitational wave made the mirror inside the tubes move. long tubes with a laser reflected back down the beam by a mirror, creates an interference pattern, if the mirror or laser moves, the pattern changes. the gravitational wave stretched and compressed space which was observed by said experiment
I understand the premise. I just don't "believe" in black holes. That, added to the many concerns that mainstream scientists have raised over the accuracy of the experimental results has led many to search for alternate possibilities, of which there are many. One is that the geomagnetic storm which occurred the day of the measurement induced electric currents in the tubes that were then deformed ever so slightly by magnetic fields thus moving the target mass.
Mike Lentsch well then for u to say "it was magnetic" isnt quite proven, maybe u should present your position the way it seems u would have liked the scientific community to, by prefacing your statement with "I think". also it must be replicated before they have a "provable" experiment. as for black holes it seems most have issue with the singularity part of it, but thats a whole other can of worms
How did the universe get created ? Its God. He created it. How come? Well, if you believe me, then its true. If you don't, needless to say, its false. So, do you believe me or not?
thewanderandhiscomp Whatever pleases you, you may choose to believe in it. Whatever you believe becomes the truth in your consciousness. The absolute truth notwithstanding.
+Ulfrz Beliefs cease to exist if no one believes in it. Beliefs are binary. Either you believe in it or not. It is non empirical and does not need to be proven and is based on interpretation.
+Ulfrz Beliefs are not secular truth. It is non secular. It is not responsible to show any evidence. Believers can say God spoke to them and the secular court cannot demand they show any evidence to prove it happened. Government cannot run a country when religious followers regard their god as above everything else . Eg . if theists decide to wage a holy war or commit mass murder for some reason, they will do it. If they believe god called them to form a religious state, they will. See, when it comes to beliefs, whatever and ever you believe in is the absolute truth to you.
Do you really believe that every thing in the universe is attracted to every other thing in the universe with a force proportional to the product of their masses, and inversely proportional to the distance between them? That doesn't make sense, based on observation of the world around you! You've been bamboozled - don't let them continue to make fun of you, please.
Really exactly how doesn't it make sense? What you are saying is that you don't understand it, or rather totally misunderstand it. Ask yourself a simple question if it makes no sense why do planes need to burn huge amount of fuel to just take off and much less to stay up? Don't display your ignorance.
John Raybould Because they're heavy. There is no magical magnetic force. Gosh, I don't know what kind of a place this is that smart people can be fooled for so long, unless they are subconsciously complicit. Far out guess? This is some kind of maximum security insane asylum. That's why we can't get to the moon - or anywhere outside of near-earth.
+ItsAlwaysGod oClock You're either the most loathsome of trolls, or else within that special little space between your ears is contained your very own insane asylum.... yet I ask- why do I even bother?
