Rivian R1T vs R1S - Out of Spec Hill Climb Challenge 

God we definitely needed more R1 offroad content and Kyle delivered. Doesn't need to be a $100,000 multi-camera extravaganza, just show us how it does.

3:13 I'm bummed to hear you may have lost the footage for the Alaska series. Your first few episodes on that trip were excellent!

Nice. The wheel slip issue seems very fixable with software. IMO, the issue isn't the wheels that are spinner - that's fine, they're completely independent from the other wheels. It's the wheels NOT spinning. I'd want to tuned so as you give it more throttle all wheels should eventually spin.

For future, I think it would be useful to also test aired down tires as well since no one runs nameplate pressure in those conditions if they can help it. This isn't a "whoops, we accidentally got ourselves into some rock crawling terrain". Those factory pressures are for on-road mileage, safety, & tire longevity. This and the R1T, Lightning, etc., demonstrates that an overlanding focused EV SUV/Truck needs a 2 speed gearbox for finer control. I wonder if the motors are hitting an amperage-per-RPM limit. You're now asking one or two single ~200hp motors to pull this heavy vehicle up without any sort of slippage from a clutch or torque converter. I bet a ~2x reduction gearset would help a lot here. I can't think of another reason why they wouldn't just lock all 4 motors to the same target RPM at X pedal position to simulate diff lockers. Within the confines of motor limits obviously.

Would love to have Rivian explain their 4x4 tech here. Making all 4 wheels turn at the same time would seem to be a very simple thing with the setup in these cars. Seriously impressed with what Rivian has done with these 1. gen cars, hopefully they can shave of some of that weight in the future and I also think the backend looks kind of funky (very high and tippy)

Longer wheel bases can have advantages on hill climbs, can reduce vehicle angle and keep your power applied further rear of the obstacle... Of course at the trade off of brake over.

You would think they could easily do a virtual locking diff function. Have a speed limited mode that sends equal power to the opposite wheels

Two motors with a locker would be a cheaper and more reliable option than four motors, with very little real downside in terms of street performance. I think Ford took the right approach with that in the Lightning powertrain. Also frees up space and reduces demand on software calibrations.

Rock crawling is best done with SOFT SUSPENSION not stiff. You want the chassis as soft and flexible as possible to rock crawl. Stiff should be used for high speed desert running.

Lot's of good info... thanks....

As someone who's owned a Classic Cherokee and a Rubicon (and wheeled them countless times in similar conditions in northern Utah), both of them could handle that climb with relative ease. I like the R1S. I think a couple of years of real-world testing and over the air updates will result in a very capable off road package.

Fantastic information review. Great information for Rivian to view also. I could really see this becoming one of your most popular channels.

Awesome comparison Kyle!

Fun. Nice work.

I knew exactly where you were w/o listening. That entry incline is legit

Would appreciate the test comparison run with the same wheels and tires ... it would make for a more scientific and valid comparison of the different Rivians.

With the issue you show on the quad motor config, do you think the dual-motor would fair better? Does the dual motor config have a lockable diff? Would love to see off-road/rock climb comparison of the quad and dual motor R1T and R1S.

Would love to see some winter driving as the seasons change.

I really which there was a "diff locker" mode, where I can tell the truck, look just have each of the four motors spin with my accelerator. I don't care if a high wheel spins...I just want to make sure the down wheel does, too.

When using the Rivian’s cameras off-roading, I recommend turning off the 360 view. You then get a three camera display with a view of each tire appearing on the sides of a central front camera view. Useful for getting a very good look at your line.

Interesting results… maybe this can help explain the towing disparity, since it seems pretty clear that the R1S’s drivetrain mapping is more favorable towards the front motors, especially when you have the same power and motors.

Lovin those Nokian 22s! How do they compare to the 20s on the highway?

Wow very capable both of them. I'm surprised R1S did this well with 22's drifting was awesome. Good thing nobody was there 👍🏼😎

Maybe you should visit Nokian in Finland some day. Their Ivalo test track "white hell" might be worth a visit during the coldest months (jan, feb)

When you were stuck in the soft dirt, why not switch to the soft sand setting? Or rock crawl mode?

Hey Kyle. What happens to speed calibrations if you change tire size?

😂 Love this! I'm loving the Rivian R1S! Maybe try the Nokian tires on the R1S 👍🏼

What are your thoughts on the 2 motor Rivian vs 4 motor for off roading? I like the 4 motor setup but I want the big battery pack which is limited to the 2 motor setup. Thanks!

Hi Kyle, How much range is loss with new nokian tires on R1T ?

What all terrain tires did you get for the 21' wheels

@Kyle do you think the dual motor will have a locking diff, and in-turn solve this issue?

Appreciate the rock crawling comparison, how about a drag race haha!

100 lbs or so of tires in the bed of the R1T could have made some difference.

What’s the 22 tire size? Same as OE?

How durable is the underbody? Are there any skid plates?

Disappointing wheel spinning from a car with four motors. Any wheel spin from a suspended wheel should be eliminated well within one revolution. Look at a Defender wheel in the air. Would like to see a Rivian off-road vs a Defender

Funny enough this is the only big car I love. I just love compact or small cars. Where Model 3 is my favorite dream car (saving up for in about 6-8 years - the time I typically drive cars)

The issue at 10:50 is the mode. Each mode has a mix of slip and locking (torque vectoring). For that type of terrain you need to be in rock crawling mode which will vector more power to the slipping wheel. Simply locking a diff at all times would make it drive like an old truck as opposed to a luxury vehicle. The vehicle is capable, but Rivian needs to provide more education about how to use it. I’ve been in this exact situation, changed modes and driven right through with no effort.

If you've got an on-board compressor, there's no reason not to air down off of street pressures.

I wonder if having the suspension damping set to soft wouldn't have given you more articulation or at least allow it to more easily articulate. The R1S looked stiff as rocks.

Kyle, what’s up with the R1S’ passenger door handle? It’s not closed like the others. Faulty?

I didn't even know this channel existed. Found out by watching one of Dave's videos where he mentioned it.

Doug Demuro showed how capable the R1T on his channel on stock tires. If i had the money, for sure this would be on my radar.

Where is this specifically? Does it have a name? It's beautiful

They need to put in a virtual locker button that would fix these issues

So, while those 22" tires do look good on the Trucks, i LOVE the all black 20" wheels! I'm waiting for a Large pack Dual-Motor (hopefully in Yellow) :)

Any way to bolt some rock rails on the S or T?

I bet being in high height mode instead of highest and maybe slightly softer suspension mode it might have gone up easier allowing a bit more travel

How could it not have full 4 wheel drive ? locking diffs or use brake on one wheel to make the other spin?

Very nice review and a delicate description of complete failure of that advertised by Rivian 4-motor awd system. Utterly useless awd algorithm

So is the dual motor better for offroad?

Why would the passenger door handle remain open on R1S while driving up ?

Thanks for the content. But I'm not sure I understand the logic of not airing down. "We want to test on factory air pressure." But the factory specifically recommends airing down. I understand that in real life, different tire pressures are to be optimized for the conditions, and that you are testing. But it doesn't seem any more informative or any more true to any baseline to use a pressure the mfg does not recommend for the circumstance. Thanks again; looking forward to continued content.

Why is the R1S passenger door handle open, when driving?

nice

What is the problem for Rivian to make motors sync and give it like 3 diff locks. Its just software needed. It would be beast.

The 4x4 Revian software needs a lot of upgrades, all the time it sends power to the wheels that have no traction and not even try to send it to the ones that do. The easier solution is to let people do the work if needed, like a virtual locker. Land Rover's software is far better, but Electric has other advantages, and Land Rover basically invented the modern take on traction control so that is expected.

Did you "loose" the alaska footage so you'd have to go there again? ;)

Why is the door handle on the front passenger door sticking out the entire review?

Rock crawling in the dry is fine but how does it perform on gloopy mud and rocks - we don’t all live in dry sunny places! Also judging from the amount of wheel locking up coming down it appears that the Rivians (both) don’t have any sort of hill descent control. I was off-roading in extremely wet weather on muddy rocky tracks yesterday in my 2020 Defender and the ability of that car to crawl DOWN that sort of surface on Duratrac AT’s at slower than walking pace is amazing

I only watched long enough to know that Rivian needs locking differentials. If they get locking difs before my CyberTruck reservation comes up, I will consider a Rivian.

What trail is this?

Can u do a rivian vs land cruiser or Land Rover ?

Not airing down is a huge handicap. Anyone that is into off-roading knows how important airing down is.

Why have this traction control like system at all? Just lock as in make all motors run at the same rpm with manual engagement front and rear.

The drivetrain logic during this test behaves, like an open differential in a standard 4 x 4 vehicle. I’m very surprised that Rivian is not able to individually activate the motors on each wheel and integrate information, including altitude, temperature, whether the surface is dry, wet, or snow-covered, wheel articulation, wheel spin, the angles and rates of climb, roll, and yaw in the vehicle, and throttle position, all as part of its logic to determine how much power to send to each motor and wheel. There are no standard axles and differentials. Each wheel has its own motor. Therefore, integrating information from multiple sensors should provide the data needed to control the drivetrain logic. The vehicle could also incorporate GPS information as part of its algorithm.

So you're the guy that did donuts in the parking lot?

The 4 motor would not move with opposite wheels lacking traction is due to the fact that a PN electric motor has massive torque from JUST ABOVE 0 RPM. At full stop with minimal traction on each axle as you were, those motors struggle to turn. If you had rocked a little, you would have climbed right out of it.

Can you ask Rivian if they are still planning an R1S with 400 mile range?

I was surprised to see that much of wheel spin and traction issues in all electric high-tech machine like this. It can't sense properly which wheels have traction and which don't?

dang im in colorado too and am about to sell my 4Runner for an R1S... but watching this idk how i feel D:

Wow surprised it can't just lock all 4 by default if in Rock Crawl mode or provide a button to lock. Not impressed. Thanks for the video! That trail is Kelly Flats and if you go further it's heart attack hill.

I want to buy myself a review in with the profits from my shares....! I will hold this for the next 5 years

Kelly Flats shouldn’t be sending Rubicons turning around… where have you seen that? We crawled it without using lockers in a wrangler and new Cherokee with no slippage. I’m intrigued by the Rivian and EVs off-road, but that was disappointing. That is just the precursor to the good stuff on this trail. If it’s struggling there, that’s an issue. Hopefully they can fix it, but I wouldn’t sugarcoat this performance. As someone who edits a ton of off-road vehicles and knows that trail, it shouldn’t have struggled there.

10:37 Active traction would do the job easily!!

Which one is heavier?

One of the issues with 4 motor is that whatever the advertised torque is, is divided by 4.

You have to match air in the tires

I thought the R1S would have done better off road. You'd think having 4 independent motors would be able to go right up anything.

rock crawl mode engaged. 404 error: lack of traction.

At first I thought this was an electric ford bronco 😂

I wonder: can the Rivian stay in the highest suspension permanently, without compromising the vehicle's life expectation?

I don't have that much experience driving off road but that doesn’t look right. People who are actually experienced in this matter will be able tell whats wrong but that wheel spin and the wheels that are stuck looks unnatural and somewhat dangerous.

trying to reduce wheel spin so we can do "low impact" climbing..... does drifting session in the parking lot. LOL!!

doesn't seem that hard to implement a LOCK mode to spin all the wheels at the same speed up to 30 mph with soften accelerator response

I prefer soft suspension on rock crawling.

Fantastic capable vehicle from America both onroad and offroad, if you make it reliable too, you will sell more vehicles than the German and Japanese automakers

Rivian 💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💥🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣and post of the electric 4x4 are 💨💨💨💨💨💨 but i thank you for your honest test drive and for your politesse 🙏✌

I like simple, these aren’t that, cool tech, I’m old, I like simple ❤

The S would be better if it was long wheel base 👍. What was going on with the S door handle sticking out. Snap off going backwards through branches 🙈🤦‍♂️

Why dont they just software lock all the wheels?? If there is a motor on each wheel i dont see why they dont do that..🤷🏼‍♂️

Modello spettacolare

It’s a bit funny how bad people want electrics to be good off road. But they still can not do basic stuff.

100% need lockers and the same power going to all 4 wheels

Awesome looking trucks but they still can’t compete with the land cruisers

It seems the T did way better the. The S. Almost seems like you were justifying what you bought over what you tested. Either way both look bad ass, from a TRD driver

DIFFERENT WHEELBASE DICTATES A DIFFERENT LINE UP ANY TRACK

If you had been less heavy on the brake the car wouldn't have to regain traction from a dead stop.

Diffs need locks because one wheel losing traction means the other one loses traction as well. With independent motors you don't need locks. You need more throttle.

Sets Stability to Reduced and then wonders why the wheels are spinning and the loss of traction in rock crawl.