Robb's Will 

John R Yea but I didnt like that nuance

@John R Only in flashback though? Right? The same flashback he's "seen" in the books.

I'll be happy when I see him throwing a frog at Arthur Dayne, or whatever he did to save Ned's life back then

@@derfelkardan7369 What I bet he did was: he threw a net on Dawn and yanked it out of Arthur's hand.

@@derfelkardan7369 He morphed into a massive Bullfrog and ate him like a fly!

Precisely! He’s name dropped in every single book, there’s no way he doesn’t do anything narratively in the future

Blake Hunt what if that’s why his kids showed up? Their dad is dead but they don’t want anyone to know. What if the half hand is actually howland??

True - it'd be weird for him to be specifically mentioned at the tower of the hand and then binned as a character

Jourdan Sarpy why would Howland have joined the nights watch?

Luke Wiseman because he kept Ned’a secret. That’s an intense secret to have. And the wall is the best place to go if you don’t want the king to come after you. If that news ever got out and howland was at his castle, he could have out his family at risk. I don’t actually believe this theory. But it’s an interesting one to think that Howland is someone we already met.

Yeah you're half right. We are constantly reminded that Jon believes he is a bastard.... but he isn't. Cat hated him, because he is Ned's oldest child and the true heir to winterfell. Robb and the others are the bastards. Jon is Ashara and Ned's son. They were married at the wolf's den... which was built centuries before by Jon Stark. Ned being forced to divorce Ashara and marry cat is why the blackish stormed out.

@@Namaste19. Ned was already married to Cat, he can't just marry Ashara. Also GRRM confirmed R+L=J so

@@nikolaytsankov9066 he didn't confirm it. And Ned married Ashara on his way back to winterfell to call the banners. He then went south and married cat. Probably married Ashara in front of a weirwood

@@Namaste19. he confirmed that L= J at least

@@daigustosanti except he absolutely didn't.

Don't forget the Hooded Man is Mance, Rhaegar, and Arthur Dayne.

I would love to rethink his theories now that we have some pretty good evidence through Fire and Blood!

That’d be good

... I was thinking this comment.

It bothers me how little people fixate on asoiaf having a Howl that has a moving castle, and what a strange coincidence that is.

OMG!!! It took me sometime to understand!!! Howl - Howland Reed -> mind blown

They come in throwing killer plants n poison arrows on greywater watch

But when did he say that? After signing the will or before it?

This was said way before the will conversation

Exactly my thoughs upon the first reread having watched thid podcast

he wanted cat gone a long time before that. she was annoying af and basically installed herself as a war counselor so she could make more bad decisions. making bad decisions is cat's super power

Now that would have been interesting.

inb4 "I don't wan et"

Oh damn, that would be next level fucked up.

Thats some theory very likely because people talk about Cat remarrying

Well, now it would be zombie marriage lol.

Well, Arya only thinks he is leading the army. She may be mistaken. Hosteen should be leading.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin that would probably make more sense. Though I would find it incredibly funny if after all of the Freys treachery, they're brought down from within by a 9 year old boy.

@@MexicanSasquatch02 He does parallel Barristan the Bold at the Battle of Fire.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I know you know it but it's asha not Arya.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin We hear that Aenys is killed in the Theon sample chapter, so Big Walder and Hosteen are the only other Freys in the North at this point. Hosteen "lost a horse" in the same incident that killed Aenys, it wouldn't be a stretch to think he may have been injured and is now incapable of leading the Frey forces, which would leave Big Walder in charge. We also have a recurring theme of stupid characters refusing medical attention, causing their wounds to worsen (Victarion and Drogo).

Theon turncloak? More like Theon TWOcloak

Nah theons basically the physical embodiment of an old king of winter... No way he's strong enough to kill people

Yeah that's much better than an actual military force

@@wisdommanari6701 You could argue an a crannogmen army wouldn't be too helpful. They're trained in guerrilla warfare and skirmishing hidden in the swamps of the neck. On an open field with their more diminutive stature, they may not be good line infantry at all.

@@hi030405 Also, they were tasked - together with the garrison of Moat Cailin, with holding the neck. I think it makes more sense to leave them where they are, doing what they are.

But Jon makes no sense as King of the Trident, which is one of the main arguments for Queen Cat, since she's pretty much the only one who would be able to maintain the North-Riverlands alliance. The other solution, as someone else commented elsewhere, is to have them marry so that Jon is accepted by the Riverlords. :P But, now that I think about it, one possible serious solution would be to have Jon marry a Riverlander. Although I'm not sure who it could be: there is no Tully girl, a Bracken and a Blackwood are out of the question, I don't think Patrek Mallister has a sister, and I don't recall anyone else? Maybe some Vance girl?

She can get married again....

@@juanpablomina1346 "there must always be a Stark on Winterfell" this line is beaten to death in the first books (maybe GRRM kinda forgot in all this mess). Now who is more Stark: Ned's bastard son (as far as Robb knows) or a Tully-Whent girl? The hesitation to confirm Jon is either a red hering or a sign that GRRM lost the plot...

How can you not be pro jon?

Dakota Clark what I meant to say was that I’m not the type of reader who is looking under every stone for jon snow to be the ultimate hero of the story. In my humble opinion there are so many characters for a reason, so the decisive points may not all be linked to jon. After all the dragon does have 3 heads does it not? I actually like Jon though he is flawed just as the rest, my point being that I just don’t think that every single clue points to him. In this case, however, I do believe that Jon is the one named as Robb’s heir.

@@kqwentin completely agree with you on that. There isn't just one hero of the story. Jon isn't even a head of the dragon. He is a true born Stark/Dayne. So I think he becomes the Sword of the Morning. I'm convinced the heads of the dragon are Dany, Tyrion, and Young Griff.

Catelyn also makes no sense, since then he'd bet on Arya resurfacing//annulment/Tyrion dying. What would otherwise be the plan for the next generation? Making such a short-sighted will seems just off. Cat as a guardian and a push for the independent North to just don't give a f* about a Faith of the Seven wedding seems the only possibility, but then, Sansa is still with the Lannisters and the Riverlands might be lost.

@@matt_9112 A bit late but one should remember several things. Both that at that point in time Robb is consistently acting extremely short sited and Cat remarks that everyone somewhat acts more on how they are currently feeling, with this overwhelming dread upon them from various developments. There isn't really much plan left about long term strategy. Even such shattering news as Euron returning, a man who they remark might be a warlorck and a monster, is just taken as an indication that they can march back up North, with all remaining Ironborn occupation just brushed off. So for that point in time such a weird decision could somewhat fit? Considering that the entire succession debate is also spurred by what is seemingly on the fly decision made at Oldstones. It should also be noted that Catelyn isn't that old yet (35 when she dies during Red Wedding) and herself remarks during A Game of Thrones, that she does desire and expect to be able to have another child. Similarly Tywin thinks Cercei can also have children. Finally it's extremely strange that Jon is not informed of such a development of all if he is the King in waiting. Especially considering if Robb anulled his being in Night's Watch. No ravens are sent, no men or important figures are asked to go fetch him. All while Robb is planning this huge and extremely complex military operation. And the examples that Robb provides for dismissal from an oath sworn till death are not "if this condition is fulfilled". Finally wouldn't it be even worse if Jon is only fetched after Robb dies because this is a man who would have 0 clue about the position of the North and RIverlands in the war if fetched and wouldn't even be there to lead, with there being potentially months before he can be retrieved to take his place.

Preston doesn't care about certain RU-vid features and I've caught him skimping on certain things in regards to the platform, I figured he'd skimp on that too.

Benjen would make more sense

@@atronachh Benjen is missing since before they last heard of Arya. If she is considered dead, so must he.

Queen in the North!!!

People get even more butthurt when you remind them that Jon is true heir to winterfell regardless of what is in Robb's will. Jon is the first true born son of Ned Stark.c

@@Namaste19. How is Jon the first trueborn? It could be, but it is not confirmed

That's not a trap. He can order her to Seaguard at any time.

He purposefully didn’t tell her about his plan to send her to Seaguard until he was in front of the other Lords, so she wouldn’t protest the decision. If he had ordered her prior she would have tried to talk him out of it. That’s why she feels trapped into accepting the order.

@@Bonkatsu12 But your argument rest on the idea that Cat is crap at talking Robb out of decisions.

No, I’m saying she is good at talking Robb out of decisions. Robb knows his mother might try and weasel her way out of getting sent to Seaguard, so he waits to tell her when they’re in front of everyone. That way she can’t argue.

@@Bonkatsu12 Yep, because after he's announced it in front of the other lords, she's left with two options: 1) follow orders that she doesn't like or 2) countermand her son and weaken his position by showing that "he's controlled by his mother's apron strings" (not my opinion; it's how the Westerosi would see it). Since Family, Duty, Honor are so important to her, option 2 is off the table, and he knows it

That sounds like a good idea.

me: Years ago? It has to be revisited with the new book- wait. Oh yeah. Right...

Good idea!!!

N00dleMeister I think he could use the same videos and add in notes to what he wants to revise. A much easier option (that I would LOVE) is to make one video with all revised notations.

@@calin6327 There is a new book: Fire & Blood :)

Still not sure how this is a trap and how is doesn't hurt Cat's feelings. Robb can order Cat to Seaguard at any time. Who cares if he first announces it in front of other lords?

Preston Jacobs the trap is that she was coming up with excuses of why she shouldn’t leave him and he backs her into a corner and she can’t come up with anymore valid excuses of why she should remain with him. He is deliberately going out of his way to not overtly offend her. You’re right, he is king and even threatens her in the past with his ability to demand that she goes wherever he sends her. She even acknowledges that. But Catelyn is extremely self important and considers herself a war advisor, meanwhile Robb has been trying to send her packing for a while now. She undermines his authority over and over again but he can’t bring himself to be, what he considers, cruel to her by sending her away and probably does want his mother around because he does cry on her shoulder once or twice. And there is no way that he would make her heir. If she controls winterfell that means that her heir would be Edmure... Robb would never do that. He barely trusts Edmure as it is.

@@JB.27_ Agreed with everything except the last part. Why do u assume Robb doesn’t trust Edmure? He’s one of the few lords there to sign the will. Plus he’s his uncle.

@@fabioventura2984 he signs the will because she will eventually be lord paramount of the riverlands and the “south” (considering Robb’s kingdom would be the north). I’m not saying that he doesn’t trust him, as in he would betray Robb, but he doesn’t see him as someone to control his kingdom should he die. Robb doesn’t take him west, Robb basically tells him to stay put and do nothing. And by the time he is talking about the will Edmure has severely fucked up and foiled Robb’s plan to trap Tywin.

He will eventually...*

Sorry for the long comments. I don't really post my thoughts anywhere and it all came out at once :)

I like your outside the box thinking. That's a great theory and I will surely look for some clues while re-reading the books.

@@legaldinho insightful bro 👊

I like this theory a lot too but Robb doesn’t have the power to absolve her marriage does he? I thought only the high septon can do that? I could be wrong, I suppose it would make sense if a king could do it

@@clixiedust Well I think the obvious heir to name is Jon, I think the next most likely possibility is Preston's suggestion that it's Catelyn (but that she must marry a Northman), and my theory is a bit out there. But to answer your point, as King in the North the high septon in old town is neither here nor there. Sansa must wed before the Old Gods of the North, not the seven. Her wedding to Tyrion is a sham and nullity, and any issue of that union are bastards. The role of the Septon was established by precedent in the South, and that principle's surviving force is tied to Maegor's defeat. Just to add to my theory a bit - we have precedent for Kings and Lords offering their daughter's hand as a reward. Karstark offers the hand of his daughter and presumed heir to anyone who brings him the Kingslayer's head. He is motivating people to bring him revenge by offering his heirship. Or at least, coming into the line of inheritance. My speculation is a hardened Robb is naming naming Sansa as his heir and saying the Northman who liberates her from her sham marriage shall have her hand. But I am just speculating here. The main thing I feel strongly about is that Shadrich the Mad Mouse is Howland Reed in disguise.

The Blackfish doesn't seem the type of person to throw away a sword because his niece didn't like how it was made. Pragmatic and stubborn to a fault. Also those two men sent to the wall probably are filled with shame related to Cat (because she tricked them into letting Jaime escape) and might not care as much what she would want as they once did. Same goes for Edmure. If Edmure, or the Blackfish told them to do something, they'd do it, especially at this point in the war.

Lol same

So never?

Lol

Me too. It's really easy to fall into these kinds of traps and mixing up fan speculation with what's actually in the books.

stoneheart is but she wouldn't agree with crowning jon. so she'd crown arya regardless of robb.

@@yungbratz561 yea she'd sooner die twice than kill Jon

@@yungbratz561 Oh Yeah! So Stoneheart probably knows Arya is alive! But, wait she could not crown Arya as Queen in the North. The world thinks Arya is married to Bolton - who would testify that Arya is the real Arya, even if Stoneheart could find Arya? THe northenr lords would not follow the dictats of a revenant, and they may not even realise she used to be Catelyn.

The northern lords would probably try to rescue their king in that case, which would arguably put the Boltons and the Freys in a worse position.

Tywin wanted to send a message of what happens to those to oppose the lannisters

@@pierosaywat And Jaime proved in AFFC that that strategy was bad, Jaime's diplomacy was superior to Tywin's viciousness.

@@dutchpangermanist5673 yea losing a hand and facing humiliation made Jaime wiser than Tywin imo

So long as there is a leader to rally around, people will continue fighting. Case in point the manderlys trying to get back Rickon. Also you cannot hold onto a hostage like that indefinitely.

Wtf

Oh Jesus, imagine that chapter if it happened...

ahhhhh. this makes sense and her hating/disliking jon makes parallel with cersei/and her sister hating their husbands

I hope you are joking lol

@@jovedo27 it makes sense or for jon to marry one of the stark girls sansa/arya. he was og supposed to marry the karstark girl. he marries catelyn if they cant have kids he might be able to marry one of them if the starks makes a trade deal with the iron throne/lannisters

But the context isn't clear. GRRM specifically says its a mystery that hasn't been revealed.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin well if that’s the case I hope it comes up in Winds ✨

You need to elaborate

@@sagebias2251 I second this. What does "new twist" mean? Source?

Sage Bias This is a simple search but here is Carmine discussing. I don’t think Preston has ever threw in his thoughts ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qvGluWcoSK8.html

@@shannond7437 I ended up here www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/7z6oav/spoilers_extended_revisiting_grrms_twow_twist_and/

Smokey Wolf That is endless! I mean Marcella, doran, Catelyn (ish), and SO many other characters are not dead yet. It’s a hard one to pin down, but it sounds like it wasn’t something he specifically foreshadowed per his follow up video with IGN.

I always get intrigued with that part of Nymeria finding Cat's corpse just in time for the brotherhood to find it as well, and give it the "lord of light's fire" through the "kiss".

@@Jess-yo9rt For me it's a "both and" more than an "either or" situation. That is, I think it's Arya that sort of endows her with this vengeful spirit, even though Beric might be the one that de facto brings her back to life.

This is only speculation but if this is true, do you think the Brotherhood will try and convince Catelyn and in turn the north to be friendly to Aegon or whoever they're aligned with?

@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 who really knows, but i always think back to what Cat said back in Clash of Kings. Where she proposed that all the kings of Westeros to step down and establish another great Council.

Works for The North. Preston's point is that Jon has no connection with the other half of Robb's kingdom.

@@alanpennie8013 nothing other than Catelyn's kids inheriting the Kingship to North and Riverlands work for the Riverlords, but the only "presumed" living kid is married to a Lannister and MIA now. So they might approve of Robb's decision to name Jon as his heir, lords Tully and Mallister were in attendance. Ofc it's speculation, and we will get to know more in TWoW.

Robb is just bullshitting his mother or anyone who might be listening. Robb and Theon were really close, Robb also would know of the miller's wife and her children, if anyone would be able to guess that Theon faked Rickon and Bran's death, it would be Robb. Also there could be secret messages between Maester Luwin and Robb. He taught Robb to read and write, Robb was always the heir, Luwin might have taught him some sort of way to communicate in secret. Robett Glover is in White Harbor, he's the one teaching Wex to read and write, his brother was one of the witnesses to the Will. It's not to far a stretch to think that Robb would name his "dead" brothers as his heirs. It would explain why the witnesses are all missing in action because they're really out searching for Bran and Rickon.

Rufio DIES I mean, that’s quite a stretch. Part of me wants to side with you that even though Robb and Theon were close and I always found it hard to believe that Robb wouldn’t even question if Theon actually killed Bran and Rickon, but it’s their deaths that cause him to sleep with his wife and betray his oath to the Frey’s, and it’s theon’s movement that causes Robb to U-turn to plot to go back and reclaim the North. He loved and trusted Theon, but that sting of him not following through on simply proposing the Iron Borns join and return if not was enough, then add in him desserting Robb and taking Winterfell and whispers of Bran and Rickon being killed. He’s lost his father, a man of honour seen as untouchable by double crossing and lies, why wouldn’t he believe Theon could take his brothers and home from him? Granted this is the same guy who struts back into the Twins and believes eating salt and bread will protect him from a notoriously known nasty family who he’s royally (*drumkit noise*) pissed off. It’s hard to say, but if he had any doubt Theon followed through I don’t think he would’ve sought comfort in a woman’s arms severing his army, he would’ve been in shock and denied it but we don’t see that so clearly he knew Cat was right to be hesitant to trust Theon or anyone for that matter. It’s too bad he doesn’t let that lesson sink in before heading to the Twins. My question would be, wouldn’t Robb assume that Summer and Shaggydog would be seen killed or if surviving, taking a good chunk of Theons men out?

@@empac8631 eating salt and bread means you're protected under the guest right, which is as old as humanity itself in the story. Even the worst kind of person is expected to respect the ancient traditions, so Robb and his lords aren't at fault for trusting a lord to respect the ancient laws of hospitality. But other than that, you make a good point.

She's in her mid 30's, she can easily make more children.

In AGoT, Cat specifically thinks about having more kids. She’s 35 at the time.

@LeadFaun If you have ever played Crusader Kings 2, when your desperate for an heir going for an heir you like your odds incredibly more if your a 17 year old guy vs a 35 year old woman. One of those has a significantly higher chance of giving you an heir than the other.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Right right but specifically with Ned. She really loved him. The reason she disliked Jon because he was a sign of his unfaithfulness to her. Every time she would see him it would remind her that Ned cheated on her. Now she had been pretty grief stricken from pretty much after Ned died and then George kept rubbing salt in the wound when she kept getting news her kids were dead. Do you think she would be able to recover emotionally and mentally enough to remarry and have more kids while she is still able? In my opinion I think Catelyns character would absolutely hate the thought of marrying anyone else though she might do it for Tully Family Duty Honor. It just seems out of place to me to pick Catelyn. Also she is the one who freed the King Slayer, has a limited time window to have more kids, as well as she had continually opposed Robb on most of his decisions in the war. When Robb was crowned this scene happened with Catelyn "Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach. I will mourn for Ned until the end of my days, but I must think of the living. I want my daughters back, and the queen holds them still. If I must trade our four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods. I want you safe, Robb, ruling at Winterfell from your father's seat. I want you to live your life, to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband." She opposed the war, freed the Kingslayer, is a widow, has no more direct heirs, opposed Robb on most of his plans. I cant see which bannermen would want her as Queen other than House Tully. Being a female ruler in Westeros is hard as it is and doing it with Catelyns baggage? To hard. That being said Rob doesnt make the best political decisions (Jeyne Westerling) so he totally could have done it despite it being stupid.

@LeadFaun It was more of a way to make a roundabout point of saying a young man has more of a chance to have kids than a 35 year old woman. If you want again why I think Cat is a poor choice read the response I did to Preston.

Cat can take the Stark name ie House Dustin

@@wisdommanari6701 there are two major faults in that theory there's no way in hell any Northern lords are going to allow her to rise to power in her current state, her body has severely decayed and she can't speak. Almost no one will want to marry her plus I highly doubt she can produce another heir (these are all probably things that will be thought of and discussed before its common knowledge that Bran, Rickon, Sansa, and Arya are still alive. At least with Jon his body will either be revived the same day he was put down or at the very least it'll be preserved in the ice cells.

Source?

A sickly child ruling the Vale, north, and river lands.

sweetrobin is not long for this world.

@Ser Michael Mertyns its good just i have been waiting so many years and how many re reads can one person do

If they're not going to cover The Witcher it would be a good choice.

I think that marriage connected two petering branches into 1 petering branch.

Rickard Star married Lyarra Stark, the niece of his grandfather. And yes she did have a sister who married someone from house rodgers, but the marriage was without issue. To go full tinfoil on this: This marriage probably concentrated skin changing genes which manifested in Brandon and Lyanna, as well as Neds and Catyln's kids.

@@SophiaLilithUwU That's not tinfoil... That's a solid speculation. Cheers.

@@FishBoneD14 Gotcha

@@SophiaLilithUwU Tinfoil me this: Shouldn't the Starks have one of the oldest active savings/checking accounts at the Iron Bank with mostly deposits and relatively austere withdrawls? I bet you they're wealthier than any of the southern families.

Exactly! If Jon dies it’s safe to expect the north lost the war so if they want hopes of saving their family name after such a loss they would need stannis to fight their battle for them.

@@bryanb2886 it makes so much sense, because Ned died for Stannis and the North is helping him right now, they may know about the will already

Exactly!

Why do the Tully’s care about winterfell?

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin why did Rome care about Carthage?

@@sagebias2251 ??? Because Carthage was military threat against Rome. Winterfell is a ruin. It has nothing to do with the Tullys.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin But it'd be free real estate!

Preston Jacobs I would assume above all that they wouldn’t want it in the hands of the Boltons as it is currently. Jon would be a much better, safer option for their house. I assume they have SOME interest at the very least of who rules the North! Edit: I mean they did kill Cat & are partnered with the Freys that hold Edmure. It seems logical they have SOME interest. 🤷‍♀️

Yeah it is really weird that theres not a fuckton of Starks running around

@@Jonnywaffles64 Well, they did have a tradition of sending their younger sons to The Wall to prevent having too many claimants to Winterfell.

Jocelyn's descendants would come ahead of Brandon's and Benjen's, because her father, Willam, was the elder brother, and Artos was the younger brother. Winterfell isn't like the Iron Throne, where all female line descendants are out of the running. Yes, a woman would be normally barred from inheriting, but a female line male could easily inherit. If, say, Lyn Corbray were the grandson of Jocelyn Stark, his claim would go forward. Plus, we don't know if Brandon and Benjen (sons of Artos) descendants would even be named "Stark" anymore - maybe they only had daughters and the line continued under a different name. If more Starks were hanging around, someone would have said something.

@@lasttoparty7570 That's true, as in the case of Alys Karstark a daughter comes before an uncle.

just click my name

Howland did send his kids....to a harvest festival.

I think the Mormonts would be pissed if he named Jon, that would be a slap in the face of the nights watch and Joer Mormont was the lord commander.

Preston Jacobs Touché. I assume Jojen left him in the dark about his actual plans. But does Howland know they are missing after the war broke out?

MrCapCol312 Jon did save Jeor & holds Longclaw. It’s obvious Jeor approved of Jon.

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Have you considered making a video on the Reeds and what they may be up to?

How so?

Not really because Robb didn't know that he would die without kids, I'm sure his will would have said "If I die without issue (kids) then I name ________ as my heir".