Man what I wouldn't give to go back and have all the books that I had and the weird Tales magazines that I had with Robert E Howard stuff in it I was addicted to Conan.
For everyone put off by the excessive amount of racism in this book, remember this was written in the 30’s. You don’t have to like it, but don’t attack the author for it. It’s the equivalent of someone 100 years from now looking back at you life and and bashing you for using fossil fuels.
@@MrShigura Popular or not, using fuels we know cause massive damage is still gross too. I think it's a somewhat fair comparison. Both are bad. No-one has to enjoy stories based in an old set of values, nor do we have to agree with the values used in our fiction. It's not entirely fair to condemn someone’s work because they held some of the views which were common in their culture.
If I can give my two cents "as a black man", The Vale of Lost Women, seems more reflective of the writer's 1930's times rather than the character Conan himself. Conan is from the same mold as Tarzan and Natty Bumppo (Hawkeye) who also have their racially insensitive shortcomings. Considering the greatly tribalistic world of the Hyborian Age, racial antagonism and tension is something that would and should naturally exist in this savage world. It makes an interesting backdrop being that people had better learn the languages and customs of other ethnic groups if they want to survive. I think that the biggest faux pas is that Conan's racism sounded too 1930's contemporary so it comes off as being ham-handed and awkward. This one story in the Conan the Cimmerian canon does not equate the absolute value of the character, his morals and his stories. If anyone here is a Conan fan and have read their fair share of stories they probably know Conan as a character who judges his allies and enemies based on the merit of their competence not ethnicity.
True. Tribalism was more impactful than race, but both were acknowledged as features of a character and not the totality. It is also important to remember that we cannot fully judge the past with today's standards.
Agree. In most of the stories, he is the foreigner and the one judged by his ethnicity by others. As a character, he cares little for ethnicity as he is often leading disparate groups. Still, he does recognize the typical behavior of the groups he encounters and factors that in. It's not the genetic - but the cultural and national identity that matters.
Yes, Conan (or Howard) seems to be backtracking here with race. Yet Howard was obsessed with race and antiquity, ancestry. But generally he seemed fair and willing to attribute nobility and talent to every people, even an enemy ‘race.’ But here, in this story, Conan seems to voice the time and culture of early 20th century Texas more than Conan’s true character.
@@kedronbenham9527who’s to say Cimmerian’s in the hyborian age shouldn’t have much in common with Texans in the 1930s. Racism is not new. I’d venture that the further you go back in time the more you may see
It would be nigh impossible to bring the classic Conan to the screen in this age of rabid political correctness. He's simply too alpha and too toxically male. He would be watered down.
Didn’t they try to bring Conan to the age of modern media and it failed horribly? It really was a travesty because Jason Mamoa could have made a fantastic Conan.
Jonathan Wells yes they did. The problem with movies is it’s restricted by the sensitive people who pay 💰 to watch something dumb down with water. Then you watch hard core Spartacus from Starz network and you see what Conan is and should be. A hard R with blood guts and violence. Also the problem is Arnold’s Conan was not Conan. Conan was never a slave. He was captured and escaped several times but never was he raised a slave. His whole view point in the world was that civilization itself was Savage and the crazy rules and laws of the civilized world was Hypocrisy in the way he was judged. The laws were only geared toward the rich. He also sell sword but never lost his moral compass. This story is what Conan was about. Arnold’s Conan soiled that character with womanizing bullshit that sounds cool but leaves no room for growth with the character. Conan was complicated and though he looked savage he was a thinking man with strategy, out thinking, out muscling and out working the average civilized thug that would label him as a savage. That is marketable If done correctly with no bullshit restrictions.
HALLO ROLAND, I AM. A HUGE FAN OF #AUDIOBOOKS AND WHEN I CAME ACROSS YOUR 140 BOOK PLAYLIST I WAS DELIGHTED.... UNTIL I FOUND OUT YOU ONLY HAVE AROUND 35 WORN OUT READS THERE, PLEASE SORT THIS OUT OR KEEP IT PRIVATE. THANK YOU.
I have a mild form of OCD that’s called grammar podiatry syndrome, so take this with a grain of salt and constructive feedback, but the word “CIMMERIEN“ stresses the second syllable not the last one. Did you not watch either of the Conan movies? Otherwise pretty good but again, familiarize yourselves with pronunciation. It does not sound good when you make up your own versionI’ve words.
You know as acceptability goes he says some things that probably aren't acceptable nowadays but he respects black people he respects the Warriors of the black people. And he made himself a equal to them so he couldn't look down on very much. But you're right it wouldn't be acceptable nowadays I still love it though. I have black friends that love it also they love the warrior aspect we were all Marines together so we were warriors anyway.
A wise man once said there is no racism in a fox hole. But I agree in today's age of PC Conan has no place. I think it a disservice because Conan's character was fair and honorable and he judged only the individual.
@@usertube140 how dare you insult my admixture!! LoL... you must be truly bored to troll this particular comment section of this particularly obscure video. I feel your pain.
This story is slightly out of character for Conan I would say, he never really came off as a bigot towards skin color in any other stories that I have read.
I've been listening to a few stories lately. A few times its been made clear that Conan will defend his people against other races just because of the color of their skin. I've noticed that their is more than a little heavy emphasis on color in these stories. But this was the 30's.
Yeah, its a weird 30s thing. But Conan gets described as both “White” and then later “Bronzed”, so while Im unfamiliar with Robert’s full views (I mean, he was buds with Lovecraft) he possibly warmed up to the idea over time, but dont quote me on that if someone wants to correct me.
@@truefailure6359 yeah I see the bronzed description all the time I think its just a way to say that he's a man who is often under the sun and as much at home under the sun as indoors.
Conan is racist. As is everyone in his world. It would be unrealistic, historically inaccurate and lame if he said “How dare you ask me to save you from Black dogs. That’s racist.” Only in this weird time and even then only among rich costal Americans would someone say such a thing
mediaguy king I think Howard was trying to portray the tribalism of the Hyborian world but he didn’t know how to make it different from the racism apparent in his own society. But how could we possibly know for sure?
@@jonathanwells223 But the tribalism in his Conan stories has been presented consistently and logically.In ''The Black Stranger'' and ''The Vale of Lost Women'',Conan has somehow racial affiliations and these don't appear in any other works.
“You are a child of books and cities and civilized ways”, describes Robert E Howard himself to a tee! 😄 What a self loathing, eloquent, racist, imaginative, insecure, creative writer!
To what end? To have it banned? You wouldn’t have said this if we both didn’t know it’s super racist. Your concerned with a caricature of people who disagree with you. You can be progressive and still like Conan and still admit this was racist as fuck..
Hopeless situation warrior the scrawny human trash sjws would be butt slaves back then lol and effeminate SJW dudes would be trying to date low value masculine women like they do now. Thats why they are completely ok with no gender roles because the dudes are emotional pussies and the females are fat and masculine.
AAAAAAAHHHHHHH SOLOMAN KANE is WAY better!!!! Presbyterian C17th england---rapier short sword/dagger 2 long barrelled pistols & a musket----NOW ur talking!!! lol
Who cares, that’s like not liking good music cuz the guy was gay, art is art no matter what. If that’s the case don’t watch any movies or music anymore cuz they’re all sacrificing babies and drinking their blood(adrenochrome) in satanic rituals.
That’s why all the alt-right dipshits screaming about “social justice warriors” and “snowflakes” are smearing this thread with their stupidity and insecurity. Because they’re limp, pathologically insecure loudmouths who desperately want to tell themselves that trying to sound tough actually makes them tough and alpha. Buncha sad lames trying to prop themselves and their insecure little cohort of slowpokes up with desperate, embarrassing tough guy affectation.
I find it odd that Howard,who's obviously informed of a lot about ancient and medieval history,would fall for the logical fallacy of ''racial fraternity''.Then again,this illustrates the rather outdated views regarding race of his age.
Being black and listening to this story. I'm forced to conclude, Conan as a character and Howard as a person is way too racist and not the person I thought he was. It's unlikely I'll think of Conan the character as I did before listening to this story.
@Oregon Pagan I totally understand your position and I empathize. It can seem to appear that I'm somehow anti-white. But please listen. I don't take the bait from the anti white narrative offered by SJWs and feminists. I will not let them influence me and allow them to shape you into an enemy. We're both men, white and black, and you are not my enemy and I will not go to war with a man with whom we have more in common than not. I am just as opposed to the current demonization of white men in media as white guys opposed to simplistic demeaning representations of black people and characters during the 1950's. Trust me, we're on the same side on a lot of things and my issues with a Conan book, is my issue to overcome, not an issue for you to feel, you shouldn't. In the brotherhood of man, our magnificence as a gender lay in that we can possess different views, opinions and even aesthetics . Our achievement as a gender is also our accomplishments at producing some of the best, passionate imaginative literature in the world. And whatever issues I have with a Conan book does not in any way take away from the greatness of the author nor diminish his achievements. Trust me, we are not each other's enemy and I won't make you or any Conan fan an enemy. The feminists and SJWs will not direct and manipulate me into seeing you or the bulk of good men who happen to white as wholly evil. As men, black or white, whatever minor literary differences, We both should team up and preserve the imaginative qualities and UN PC creativity that embodies the currency of the male mind. As for the CNN and Netflix hyper politicizing of everything. Screw that, I'd rather read Conan as an honest even flawed character the the cheap insincerity of CNN and Netflix.
You know the story was written in 1933? That the world was very different in the 1930? For the time Howard was far from racist as he often showed minorities as humans in their own right wit their own cultures. You might read Edgar Rice Burroughs, Tarzan of the Apes for something from the same era or stories by Mark Twain also from the same era. You can't judge one era by the standard of another era. That is a mistake SJW and NPC always make
@@SirRichardBear Let's examine. My comment centered around not thinking of the character or the author as I previously imagined. And really, how could I maintain perspective from the past into the present after listening to the novel. But, I didn't just become reactionary and condemn him as a racists, I did a bit of research into Howard's life, and it turns out his views on blacks isn't completely black and white (no pun intended.) He was a man of his time and his time was of such that had a difficult road to literary nand personal evolution of something like a more balanced view. However, unlike the feminists or SJW crowd, I never implied that those who liked the author or the character are racists, I never suggested people cease reading the novels, and yes, I have seen and read the old Taran material. I am in no way suggesting, anyone who is white who enjoy the books harbor deep racial resentment towards black people. Howard was writing for a specific audience and that audience was/is white. So, he caters to a perspective that is closest to what he is familiar. That is not a crime in terms of aesthetics. But I like possibly you, would have a hard time reading the same story where the protagonists non-white.
@@HoppyBunny. Not really I'm part Italian and reading books like the God Father, Scar Face or even Sherlock Holmes don't bother me I understand it was a different time and the stories are still good stories. Have you seen the terms used to describe southern Europeans in Sherlock Holmes stories? very insulting but doesn't keep me from enjoying the stories. Its part of history I'm also Celtic have you read some of things the English wrote of the Scots, Irish, and Welsh? Still doesn't keep me from enjoying the Bard or Sir Walter.
@@SirRichardBear I appreciate your reply, and understand the context of which you mention in terms of the times of which the stories were written. However, I believe you are incorrect that Howard was "far from racist..." The fact of the matter was, Howard frequently expressed virulent racist beliefs and often and publicly spoke of white supremacists ideology during a significant part of his life. Admittedly, his views softened during the later part of his short life, but that had more to do with the emerging intellectual circles of writers within the literary circle, he admired. (as well as a woman with whom he was attracted.) Does this mean I'm advocating a ban on his books? No. Does this mean, I believe anyone reading and enjoying Conan is a racists? No. Does this mean, I think there should be a campaign to discredit the author and condemn the character as pure evil and the stories as just another way to advance a racist social political ideology? No. And that lay the vast difference between me and Feminists, and SWJs. My issues with the book and the author (to a lesser extent) is only MY ISSUES. And not a statement about anyone else who may feel different about the tone and narrative structure clearly veering close to literary editorializing about characters/people who are black, fictional or otherwise. My feelings toward Conan as a character, are different now, and the engine producing that difference I feel is supplied by Howards detailed description of Conan's deeply entrenched feelings about blacks across the board, as a race/ethnicity' more so than on an individual or group of antagonists who only, happen to be black. In a larger sense, a fact remains, that these books were written for a specific audience and espoused a specific set of values amiable to the audience of whom the books' standards reflected. And one part of those values ---- but by no means the entirety of those values, was the now discredited science of Eugenics. However, I don't want to go too deeply into that, because the books are the books and fiction is what these books (Conan( centered upon. So please, continue to enjoy the Howard books, I don't see any observable evidence that those that do, support explicit racist ideals, so I feel no need or desire to judge his fans.
