WELL! THAT was INTERESTING. It's almost unbelievable to me that he has so much information in his brain, and remembers all of those connections. So much that is familiar. It is funny and sad that "science procedes one funeral at a time." Our first lesson as students was that scientific methods are paramount, but within each discipline ego, time and interest constraints prevent open minded consideration. I think this is a terrific learning experience and am having a blast being exposed to it all. Grateful. ❤🤟
Wow. Thank you so much for doing this, Nick (and Bob). I have been paying attention to Hildebrand for a long time. It's so cool that he worked for Hoffman and was close to Moores, because I consider those two to be my "geological heroes". And in terms of Moores' work-I've always felt that he had the best intuitions for the Cordillera (coming out of his extensive field research), and Moores was really the progenitor of this microcontinent/ribbon continent explanation for the Cordillera that inspired Hildebrand, Johnston, Tikoff, et al. What I really like about Hildebrand is that he is not afraid to take on difficult and complicated problems. A lot of geologists-and I am not trying to slight anyone here-sort of just work with this myopic perspective, what you call the "postage stamp". Part of it is the way the academic environment is set up, where the scientists have to scale down their work to where they can only get funded for taking baby steps that are a sure thing, baby-steps that don't run the risk of biting off more than they can chew, something small enough where they can write a good paper or two on that little postage stamp with enough data to back it up. People are more likely to go for a sure thing, than chase after a big idea and maybe never get there. Scientists are under pressure these days to publish more and more to further their careers, and they can't afford to noodle on something this big. On top of that, it just requires an immense amount of research and a certain type of mind to have the kind of lateral thinking required to put it together. But the net result of all of these little myopic perspectives means that no one still has figured out how they all fit together, and no one wants to push the status quo. So I really appreciate Hildebrand for having the courage to do this, and maybe only someone like him, as a relative outsider, who follows in the footsteps of giants like Hoffman and Moores, who were also big-picture, big-idea thinkers (Hoffman still is-I've loved catching him every week on Virtual Seminars in Precambrian Geology during the pandemic). And seeing this interview, I feel Hildebrand is a kindred spirit. When I heard him describe his reading habits and describe himself as a "sponge", and as a big-picture thinker, I felt it could have been me talking about myself. (Thanks for the "Origins" book recommendation, btw!) I'm also something of an outsider, a vinyl record collector, and have many interests. Anyway, I don't know that Hildebrand is right about everything (as he said, all models are ultimately wrong), but I think he's definitely on to a lot, and I wish more people were paying attention to him. He is seriously underrated and under-respected. He mentioned Hoffman's work in the DNAG-I think what we need is a DCG "Decade of Cordilleran Geology", a well-funded big-picture study with someone like Hildebrand or Tikoff, or both of them, guiding the thing from the top and finally putting all these puzzle pieces together, like the DNAG or the Deep Carbon Observatory. Was glad to hear Hildebrand mention Cin-Ty Lee, IMO another phenomenal geoscientist. Love his work on formation of continental crust and arc delamination/arclogites. Appreciated that he brought up the issues with the Omineca belt and the Sevier orogeny. People tend to either just take these events for granted or study them individually without connecting them to a larger story. I feel like I could go on and on about this, I was so excited to watch it. But all I will say, in the interests of not droning on and on: I was so happy to see this interview, and I will keep paying attention! Thanks again both Nick and Bob!
Moores was not the progenitor of the ribbon continent idea for the Cordillera. That would be Johnston, who came up with the idea on his own. He built on the work of Warren Carey on oroclines as an impetus to his ideas linking the pattern of several belts all the way into Alaska. Also, 'postage stamp' style research is actually not funded much at all anymore. Big is in.
Anyone else here "cramming" before tomorrow mornings program with Bob? I am so excited to listen to these next two programs! I really understand SO MUCH MORE than I did 10 months ago. Thank you again Nick for preparing us a step at a time until these ideas are within the grasp of our ability to comprehend.
Cool! More Tucson stuff! Thanks for this jam packed interview, and thanks for all the previous classes and talks, or this would have all gone totally over my head! 🤪 Thanks, Robert, for chatting with Nick and letting him pass it on to us!
I agree -- I am also sure that most of this conversation would have gone way over my head if it weren't for the all of the 101 classes and other classes and interviews Nick has shared with us. Very grateful for the work he has done.
Fascinating and challenging. This 79 yr.old has to go back to study to truly understand his ideas, and he motivated me to do so. I will watch this again as I am overwhelmed by so much new knowledge.
Wonderful interview and discussion. What is great about your videos is while the first viewing is spectacular and one obtains a big delta in knowledge there are many things I don't recall or understand. Then I can go back and watch and/or listen and any time I hit something that generates a question, I can mash the pause button and go to any number of references or previous videos and get some info. Then once I have completed my reference checks go back to the original video and backtrack a bit and listen/watch again with more understanding. I am a two fingered typist so live sessions are not as important to me as is the ability to go back and review several times. I love being retired because I can devote most of my time to yard work, shop projects and learning about things that interest me. Learning is a life long activity and keeps the mind active. Thanks for a great video, Dr. Zentner. You are a special person. I'm 79 and I want to be like you when I grow up! ✌❤🙏🏼🖖
Thank you Nick for the Interview with Robert. The Best Ideas are to be open to any "crazy Fault-get-together" and see what happens with the "what-if" result and then finding "gold in open mindedness" - so look for "more mobilty based" things the minimum is proven the max is not YET!
Hey Nick, Glad you had a chance to chat with Mr. Hildebrand. He's a kick. Good interview. Thanks for taking a peek into the SW geology. Take care and look forward to your next.
So good to revisit with Bob to set table for the morning. Energized by how the details are crisped for me this round because of the Baja BC series. Ty! Enjoying the journey.
This all reminds me of reading - years ago - Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Very interesting on several levels, not even just the geologic, since I'm not a geologist and barely understand much of the terminology.
What an exceptional man of Science that seems to be a rare breed of Scientist that is in humble and not ego centric but is data driven and proving out theories or not but in search of the truth. Refreshing.
As a dabbler in different sciences (obsessive curiosity is a wonderful thing), I can point to general examples of systemic resistance. Particle physics, cosmology, psychology, computer science all provide relevant examples. Bohr nailed it.
I would really like to know what Bob feels is source of the ribbon continent. Also if there is any example of a ribbon continent in the world today. I enjoyed this interview very much as Bob's hypothesis and work is so different than so many others. Thank you Nick.
Another great interview, Nick! Bob is amazing--I see where his syntheses come from, all those field sites all over North America. I will have to watch this one again to soak it in.
Bravo Mr. Hildebrand! You use contemporary examples worldwide as a mean starting point for describing the past; imho, much more reliable than building entire mechanisms on models. Here’s an example, many geologists parrot that the JDF as a whole is migrating North, with a Northeasterly motion, contrary to the vivid fact that its transform faults are oriented Southeasterly, and the Southern Gorda Sub-Plate is accommodating the Northwesterly migrating Pacific Plate, North of Cape Mendocino through truncation.🤔 @41 N. Lat. 127 W. Long.
I found this conversation to be REALLY good! Not only did he cover topics in which I am most interested -- especially the Baja-BC -- but also he seems to be someone who can connect the dots so easily and so logically. I really enjoyed this discussion. I now want to go read some of his papers!
Thanks so much, Nick! The interview passed so quickly. It’s definitely worth a second viewing. Dr. Hilldebrand is such a fountain of knowledge! I did a paper in 2016 on his 2014 article in GEOSCIENCES CANADA about the Westward subduction during the Servier & Laramide orogenesis episodes for a geology class. Previously, I studied geology back in the early to mid-seventies. We’ve learned so much since then!
amazing list of referrence publications: I can hardly wait to read them all. thanks Nick and Bob for the delightful video experience and all that work you have both done and will do.
Definitely a most interesting man. I would love to hear him defend his viewpoints with some other “Geologist “ guests on the next winters live chat re Bala - BC. I must try and read his various papers before then. It’s all fascinating stuff and is what science is really about. Collecting data and proposing theories and defending or disproving them is how we learn anything. Thanks for using your vacation in this way. We love it .
I was not sure what to expect with this interview. Suffice to say, I was very engaged, entertained and enlightened. Thanks for continuing to bring these interviews to the masses.
If only more scientists had open minds as you two! Thankyou two for your contributions to the field of geology! Your stories right or wrong are very interesting and informing!
I’m so glad that you posted your interview with Dr. Hildebrand. I loved his attitude that “I’m just trying to understand” and “come discourse with me”. I left with a better understanding of his constructs and yours. And, you are a great interviewer, not interjecting your thoughts or ideas, but also with that basic question “help me understand”. So thank you!
So how does some like me process this ?I have the education of someone who just finish Geology 101. I try not to have any preconceived notions .Hopefully we follow the science We keep all the data taken and as we learn more and keeping the data already collected ,we can adjust out thinking based on evidence .Sometimes 2 people can look at the exact same evidence and come up with different conclusions . This tells me ,we need to do more field work and collect more evidence and data I am new at this so I can easily listen to all kinds of different views .I don’t have any prejudice .Every hypothesis needs to be tested or challenge. That is what what good scientists do Finding the answer leads to more questions , which means the learning or the quest for knowledge is never ending .
Just doing my homework for Saturday and watching this again. I agree he is well worth listening to. He is advancing the science in the correct way. This is shown in the way he has been prepared to modify his ideas as he expands his own reseach and talks to others in the field. I think you are still at the stage where for every answer you throw up at least 4 or 5 questions in hi storical geology. Easy to undersand, when looking at the past much of the evidence has been lost or hiden and it is hard to rebuild a coherent picture with what is left.
I really enjoyed listening to Robert Hildebrand, His ideas seem to have plenty of back up data. Plus he can recite it because he knows it. He has made the connections with the use of his data. wow that the scientific community would dismiss him and his work seams rude to me. The man has a wider view than most. He has after all written a book on it for goodness sake. Who knew that all were not invited to contribute, discuss, and come to conclusions together. sigh. Thank you for being so open Nick, You do not dismiss people I appreciate that about you. You are respectful of people of culture, knowledge and their work. Keep on keeping on.
Wowzers !!! Such a great Interview @Nickzenter SO MUCH MORE TO PLACE INTO MY DATA BANK. Now if only I had the time to Process ( not that I am not understanding the materials presented ), but have been expending so much energy in the Hunting & Gathering, and life getting in the way of this passion. btw- I consider you the " lead dog " in the pack, running this journey into the unknown. Just coming into frame on my own ( in my head anyways ), the way I can organize it all. Awesome work as usual. Many thanks Robert for this sit down. Did not think Nick was going to be given the opportunity, after mentioning he was ~ ignored ? ~ at a said poster session I think it was. jk! So glad this came to fruit, only to get better with age.
My "two cents": ~~~ Thank you (again), Mr. Zentner. And of course Thank You Mr. Hildebrand. ~~~ I am not a "geologist."~ I am a 12 year old boy with a bicycle in the bottom of a quarry in Sylvania Ohio looking at a "cascade" of brachiopods from a Kazillion years ago ~ Just 20 feet below the surface in the land of the corn fields. ~ I am a 70 year old with a ten year long hiatus as a Studio Potter (1976 -1986) melting potash, "Feldspar," silica, "fire-clay," "Albany Slip clay" at 2400. degrees, now with questions about why is there is no more Albany Slip clay? or other clay? for that matter. I am a retired social worker (whole other story) ~ now living in New Hampshire ~ and fascinated with the mammoths and "geology" of Michigan and the Great Lakes.. And I offer attention to that comet that broke up and hit that area sending ice into space 12,900 years ago. And so ~ more than all of this ~ I am a time traveler. ~ What is a million years? What is a thousand years? What is the human calendar? What is the calendar for North America? ~ 1492? ~.B.C.? ~ or A.D.? ~. Place this on 12,900 years ago. One bad day on the ice sheet covering Michigan. ~ Not two times one thousand years but thirteen times one thousand years? ~Time Travel. ~ Just imagine.
2009 Westward subduction paper available on google scholar. Last sentence of abstract: Also, within the triangular Columbia embayment, large segments of Rubia appear to have escaped laterally during the Cordilleran orogeny to create a lithospheric" hole" that was later filled by basalt of the Columbia River and Modoc plateaux.
I was surprised to hear him mention Great Slave Lake in Canada. The rock I sent you was from the Acasta Gneiss (sorry the certificate didn't come with it) and the rock is 3.9 to 4.1 Ga. Fantastic discussion! Thanks for all you do, Nick!
i learned 4x5 film at BHSC Spearfish,SD.'70's, me social scientist/janitor last at ASU, Physical ed H wing 2007-11 ( till department given pink slip due to econaomy) i Lead custodian rubbed elbows with many fields there. my Brother has rock shop/jewlery in Marfa,Tx and we get stock in Tuscon, . Hometown of our moms schoolmate friend had several degrees i recall so visited from 60's-till last '93. i Loaded my Speed graflex to neighbor Marfa Film Shop, to intice use i cant afford whole dive into landscape photog from here to all over usa by bicycle, Develop in tipee tent like old time photograpehrs. i Have few texts on this physical geography on porch to show and chatted with other reserchers who stop buy brothers shop...
The textbook explanation of the Laramide orogeny can best be summed up as "because we couldn't think of anything better'. So, any new ideas are welcome.
I agree with Dr Hildebrand's views on science progress. I can tell you that as a retired physicist, there is the same "circle the wagons" reticence to consider *any* new ideas unless they come the "top 10" scientists and schools. I was not interested in just collecting a paycheck, calling myself a scientist and waiting for retirement. Especially if you have new ideas, you can't be published in physics unless you have the right connections. Instead of enduring all those cold shoulder snubs, I enjoyed my life. I have no regrets.
Robert Hildebrand's work is extremely helpful, no kidding. We are becoming enlightened geologically in a slow and evolutionary way until someone like Bob Hildebrand awakes us from our stupor. I am an outsider in as much as I am an atmospheric scientist, yet I can see the parallels in the dynamics between the atmosphere and the geosphere, naturally the time and pressure-temperature-density values are different, still I am certain that there is a correlation., thermodynamics is thermodynamics, right? So, I see the Cordillera as the result of a subducted (occluded) rifting ridge (of high pressure) along with the accumulated angular momentum of rising material from the aesthenosphere which consequently produces the lift and the poleward transport component.
Nick, I watched this 9 months ago and I guess I was just ignorant and terminology went in1 ear and out t'other. I've learned a LOT since then and re-watched this after the Karin and Mitch show (R). While I'm not a fanatic, I think I'm a 10 now until it gets proven wrong. Thanks Bob and Nick!
really great interview. is Rob still giving guitar lessons i wonder? I worked at Geological Survey of Canada in Ottawa back in the mid 90's when he was there and i met once or twice. He was giving guitar lessons back them. His approach to research is just so good and encouraging
Has anyone considered piezoelectricity being generated by quartz being under stress for the formation of metallic deposits the stronger the electric field the heavier the minerals attracted to the point of electrical generation? The minerals suspended in a fluid under pressure and drawn up to the quartz veins or reefs generating piezoelectricity. Depositing the minerals with each event like electroplating. Just curious 🤨. Any answer to migmatic layers producing lubrication for the faults sliding easier?
Now I watched this video from Australia 🇦🇺 on Gold Faults and fluids…yet it seems no one is addressing Piezoelectricity created by Stress on crystalline structure’s by earthquakes magmatic intrusions volcanoes doing their things.
When a volcano 🌋 erupts there are lightning ⚡️ bolts and thunder. Now as is know that is the collision 💥 of particles during a vigorous eruption 🌋 event. Those bolts all seem to “Ground Out” seeking the path of least resistance to a ground plane which may include water. With two sources one above ground of the plumes particulate matter and the second from the fracturing of quartz Crystal veins of Piezoelectricity being generated in this fashion metals would accumulate and provide even better conductivity during the events. Oregon sunstones are found in a volcanic tuff layer which is older Than the sunstones are. The valuable sunstones have copper associated with their formation. That seems they are formed after the tuff is deposited. Which appears to be a gaseous deposition model.
The Andean model for N America seems really odd to me. The subdction zone along the Andes goes back to the proterozoic. It's become inactive at times. It's changed strike/vergence over time. But we don't need to explain how it got there becuase any evidence for a theory is probably just not available any longer. As your lectures pointed out, W N America's margin started as a rift basin in the proterozoic and was a long-lived passive margin. So we need to explain how subduction started along it. A number of papers from the past 20 years argue for what seems to be a consensus: subduction zones are likely to start early in the history of a passive margin and along significant faults. You get both in partially rifted peri-continental remnants. It seems intuitive to me that rift remnants nucleate subduction zones on passive margins.
Wow fascinating . What if some of the Baja BC migration happened out in the ocean then collides all still before the addition of the oceanic provences and major subduction. I like the western subduction. So fun thanks for your detailed thoughts
As well as being a great presenter you know how to let the person talk and present his views. If you can summarize his talk in the future that would be great
Can anyone explain what Hildebrand might means when he says that he cannot find the arc rocks in the Cordillera which are needed for the Back-Arc model?
