Roger Norrington | Beethoven: Sinfonie Nr. 3 Es-Dur op. 55 (Eroica) | SWR Symphonieorchester 

We hope you have not only listened to the French horns. Otherwise: Listen again 😉

OMG, Ihnen weiterhin viel Freude bei des Kaisers neuen Kleidern; bei den Berliner Philharmonikern hat dieser Quacksalber Norrington übrigens Hausverbot (seit einer Aufführung der h-moll-Messe)

@@himmerod9117 Natürlich, Hasser muss es überall geben. Ich finde Norrington durchweg erfrischend. Besonders freut mich die genaue Lektüre der Partitur, keine aufgesetzte 'Interpretation', wie bei manchem andern großen Taktstockmeister (Kar..öh..hust - wobei ich die Riefenstahl'sche Filmaufnahmen grandios finde, das hat schon was). Mit oder ohne Vibrato, das wären Nebensächlichkeiten, wenn die Prägnanz der Ausführung, speziell die genaue Art der Artikulation der HIPster generell Schule machen würde. Aber schlampige Aufnahmen, auch berühmter Orchester und Dirigenten, gibt es wie Sand am Meer, auch Neuaufnahmen. Non vibrato und Originalinstrumente - das hat trotzdem immer auch was farblich ansprechendes für mich, lässt es klanglich leuchten, positiv abstehen vom glatten Sound des Sinfonischen Einheitsbreis.

Because Norrington is using a bigger orchestra than he did in his pioneering HIP recordings. He has many more strings and divides them as Beethoven wrote and modern woodwinds do not have the coarser power of period ones. This is an intelligent way of balancing dynamics in a live performance and many other 'period' conductors have done the same, notably Savall.

So very glad you liked the splendid playing of the old SWR orchestra! The reason for the doubled winds is that it was normal at the time. Vienna orchestras had 8 first violins max. On state occasions there could be 10-12, and so, to get a balance, people doubled the winds. It's obvious when you think about it. 30 strings is one thing; 54 in a modern band is quite another. All modern orchestras should really double the wind,- or play with fewer strings. Sometimes, with a wind solo for instance, full strings and doubled wind are not needed. If you watch closely you'll see some players resting for those passages. Love to all, Roger

We hope you're not too sad! The conductor Roger Norrington fights the stylistic device of vibrato as unhistorical, because the permanent vibrato of the orchestral strings only became established in the 1920s ...

@@klassikswrkultur danke!ja!conductor「sir」is older than furtwangler knappartsbusch walter bohm.celibidache and wakasugi were youngmen.

Danke für die nette Rückmeldung!

...really? While listening at 28:46, or around, I find uncommon to appreciate such wonderful "piano" or pianissimo there... Then when the 3rd movement start... lots of crescendo. Of course we have not one thousand players as in pre-history :) and with the art of Roger Norrington and SWR this allows for such a clean and "pristine" execution.... What do you mean for dynamics?

@@seppstefano dynamics -> the difference between looks and quiet... A recording instrument does not have the same capability that a human ear has....

@@seanmarshall7529 Yet I really can't understand your point, to me there are plenty of sections where instruments almost whisper and others where they play loudly (and Sir Norrington is rather famous for this since the early recordings with London Classical Players, which keep upsetitng several causal listeners). Having time one could analyze dynamics with tools like audacity, I bet there is plenty. In any case, thanks for your answer :)

@@seppstefano my point isn't important! Not at all... But I'll give you an image... I used to live in Italy, not far away from Venice... A small town was able to invite the orchestra of "La Fenice" tuo play "La mere"... Debussy. There were more than 200 people in the orchestra! The pianos, pianissimi were such... But the fortissimi had every bone vibrate.. i could guess 120 dB. It was *LOUD * no recording or reproducing device, specially at the puny resolution Internet offers for the masses can, I think, reprice that sound... I remember Lorin Maazel directing the same orchestra in La Fenice.. the concert was being recorded, it was a piece of a German romantic, don't remember who, but i do remember my disappointment, the dynamic range was not that i had heard in that town..

I heartily concur! I have heard Norrington sound worse than this, mainly in situations where he was a guest conductor. In those instances, you got the feeling that the orchestra was rebelling against his perversions by deliberately playing badly. I am glad that he has vacated active life. The senza vibrato approach never sat well with me, giving the strings a coarseness that I find hard to take.

@@antoniboleslawowicz8095 I agree, Norrington is just gimmicky, I don't like ugly sounding Beethoven. It's not true that it would have been played senza vibrato. The Paris Conservatoire Orchestra which was founded to play Beethoven symphonies always used vibrato.

It took me two minutes to go to imslp, find a partition of beethoven's 3rd, find the spot you mentioned and to check if they played it wrong. And no, they didn't. Beethoven was just ahead of his time (and in conclusion to your comment still is).

@@Claudiogebhardt I think it was a clever joke ;)

Well, indeed, nothing wrong there at all. And I didn't have to go to Imslp: the Heugel score was in my hand! At bar 630, the horn plays the main theme in Eflat major...

​ @Claudio Gebhardt @ALESSANDRO Della Corte ​ @Georges E. Melki When I wrote that comment 2 years ago, I couldn't read a note of sheet music, I just listened and heard that it sounds incorrect. At that time I didn't know what was the reason, but since then I learned some of the basics so now I can tell you more precisely. If you only listen to the horn part, it seems correct, but if you listen to the whole, you can hear that the horns are out of sync from the orchestra, in other words, someone is late. If you can't hear it, slow it down. i.imgur.com/zTlfEiV.png These notes should sound together, but they don't, which messes up the entire feel of it. This recording is correct: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4vg-ngFcpxE.html#t=12m38s Indeed it's a tricky part because the horns echo their own theme delayed and modified, as the first note is shorter, so it's easy to mess up and play it the same way as before - in which case the second and the third notes will be late, as in this concert. Maybe it's the conductor's mistake too, because he's not really beating time. The horn is also late at the famous early passage at the beginning of the recapitulation (10:15). So, while Beethoven was indeed ahead of his time, the horn player certainly wasn't. Ba dum tsss!

@@zzimp1 If you look at the score (bars 638 onward) you will see the same notes written as those played - as is the custom with professional performances. Contrary to your observation about the horn passage from bar 394 - this is also precisely in time according to the score. I refer you to BA 9003 full score.