This episode with just the two of you, I think has been my favourite episode of Summoning Insight all year. I usually prefer watching the beginnings of each episode as well as the question part at the end. This episode has been nothing but that, so thank you for accidentally perfectly catering towards my taste in content this week.
"Let me think how you frame this... who actually gives a flying fuck about some of these groups.." we're glad u took some time to think about it based thorin.
One of the legendary greek players Dom1nant who has been a pro since s2 said this about comp last season. "I didnt want to go to the Eu Lcs or LEC cause i dont want to tryhard and live that life, other players cant do that and go to lec now for example,the few that did(specificly talking about greek players) are the only ones that could have done it.If you are Vitality or Rogue ofc you are gonna pick Comp,you see a guy climbing to Rank 1 with 20 diffrent champions tryharding every day to get better,at some point you will get your chance,wether you keep it,its another story.Mersa speedrun his journey to LEC (mersa only played 2 to 3 seasons in the ERLs) and now he is speed"running" it in the LEC. GG to Rogue's scouting staff btw and i dont say that cause of bias.They took a team who at heart had lost 2/3 carries and who were thought to be the 2 best players on the team and replaced them with 2 players who are already paying off results wise much better in a single half year and that also have a future in front of them.
2:12:11 Monte really called GAM (formerly Gigabyte Marines) "Gamania Bears", a team that as far as I can tell and recall only existed for like 6 months in Season 3 lol
I have always thought Trymbi was the best laning support in LEC and I'm just happy he finally won. Larssen and Odoamne has finally stepped up which increased their ceiling. I feel like Trymbi vs Targamas is the next possible support rivalry following Mikyx vs Hylli, Yellowstar vs Mithy. RGE loses when they actually hinder him and put him on shit champs like Braum. That's like putting Hylli on Janna. Trymbi has won 2 bo5s vs Hylli. The guy is on his prime. Comp and Trymbi outperformed Hylli/Upset and Targamas/Flakked. They're the best botlane in LEC.
@@ThePolarpop Watch them. Although it's a 3:0 all 3 games have insane plays and G2 tried to hold on, even were close to taking a game. It was the highest level Bo5 in the LEC this year.
As someone who was closer to the anti-c9 side of the LS situation, cant argue with Monte's "where are the haters now?" throw down hahaha that got me took me a minute
Lets be real. LoL Esports is an extremely high pressure environment that requires hands and mental health strength to deal with the pressure. If you don't have the cajonas to handle it then that is the job of the coaching staff to predict who is most likely to crumble and prepare 2 subs accordingly. I appreciate the awareness brought to this subject because lets be real, if EG won after this? Absolute fucking chaos! Great analagy with this electrified rail line, that is so true about this topic.
On the "boring control mage" discussion , in starcraft 2 for the first year as a zerg i learned to hold cheese after cheese hardstuck gold... then when I learned all the cheesed instantly within few weeks master player... as a player youre defined by 2 aspects .... your strongest and your weakest. You can drill your strong points to become even more refined or like in case of larsen adapt your weaknesses so you no longer can be defined by them. An agressive player like hilisang at the end of the day is defined by his agression and that makes him struggle In this enchanter meta. The strongest player is one that is whatever he needs to be in the moment.
Really curious what this win will do to Rogue in the long run. The way they turned around their play was super impressive, but was it mainly the "road trip" honeymoon phase that boosted their mental like some players described? Was this the mental block that they needed to overcome to just take their game to the next level? or is this going to be an Alliance stlye flash in the pan? only time will tell, but at least having the prospect of a team potentially claiming their own period of domination that isnt just "we kinda try to be 2019 G2 but worse" is exciting
Their roster just does not have any holes atm and their performance can only go up. If this title solved the mental block, then I wont be surprised to see them reach semifinals ( but not finals)
While roster is good I feel like it is too reliant on Comp to carry and nobody else can take that role, like I said players are amazing but not in the same team so when its going to be top meta for worlds will Odo start carrying? See thats the problem, they have an amazing scaling mid laner but at the same time amazing support top and support jg which isn't rly good to have in 1 team, you need at least one more person who can play the carry role.
Was amazing to see rogue win, I just hope they can replicate their performance and have same mindset at worlds because they have a pretty decent shot at getting out of groups in that case. If somehow we could split the mvp award it would go to both Trymbi and Comp. Trymbi stepped up big time and he overcame his nerves, plus the last pick supports were really great for their drafts. His soraka was mental in game one especially.
So to be clear before this gets twisted there's no hate on Monte, Thorin, Danny or Upset here. SO... the take that REGARDLESS of the situation Danny's value tanking and also saying if you can't handle it mentally during the most important time of the year then you're not cut out to be a pro player.... where was this for Upset??? When Upset got hate (wrongly) the response was that it's none of your business and he's justified? Inconsistency on takes just bugs me... I think the take is wrong anyway, Danny dropping out once with mental health means nothing in isolation. If he then flops at worlds then possibly, depending on what's actually going on with him.
leena is like the architect from the matrix.. she just builds these dynasty teams like the tsm team that went 0-6 at worlds making history left and right!
@@croyalip The TSM 0-6 looks worse from the fan perspective, but the amount of brand damage and revenue loss TL faced when they didn't make the World's located in NA is going to be hurting them behind the scenes for some time.
Being from the UK chants that are "xteam throw" "x player ints" etc would be much more common in the UK, and don't even get me started on the sheer amount we could come up with
on the worlds seeding they should use the scrims leading up to the start of the tournament to determine relative strength, and then form a properly seeded bracket.
Reddit went full hindsight Andy.. admonishing the people (Everyone) who doubted RGE would win 2 b05 back to back vs the top legacy EU orgs (G2/FNC) Like i'd get it if they just lost one final.. but it had been 4 splits in a row and on top it was clear that the two solo laners performances dipped (from regular season) in those previous b05 losses It makes sense to fucking doubt them.. Jesus i hate most of this community Props to RGE though and overall good for the LEC.. especially if G2 realize that they need a good adc if they want to compete internationally.. i'd look at top also.. but its a barren wasteland talent wise in the West
Agree - also,while i had some sympathy for Odoamne when he got emotional on stage,but when he was saying stuff like "When we lose in a bo5 people call us chokers,but when fnatic loses,no one says that" in an interview,that was SO disingenuous,because he leaves out the part where in the past splits - in NON-PRESSURE split-games rogue was considered to be quite good,but when it came to playoffs,they often underperformed,while everyone thought that Fnatic was quite bad this split and people were rather surprised that they made it this far in the first place. Also - i know thorin likes Odo - but even he knows,that this type of "choking" - behaviour has been historically very closely tied to one player - Odoamne - ever since the H2k days,even at their best,they were considered chokers and now it's the same with rogue - he is at least *A* constant,when it comes to teams that typically perform way better in splits,than they do in playoffs. So yeah,it's cool that he finally got his win - but i think EU/the west in general looks super weak this year at worlds. I don't want an Odo-team to be the "best" EU-representative tbh.
@@bigboi4404 yeh that was odd from Odo.. like he had back to back splits last year getting outperformed by Armut.. then same in Spring (and the first g2 b05) being outplayed and solo killed by brokenblade Meanwhile in regular split he is consistently top 2.. I would say for 4 splits now It's fair to ask is rogue good enough or is rogue choking Either way the West is doomed this year.. hell maybe even LCK is doomed outside geng
@@bigboi4404 lol, people really be getting offended at Odo throwing some shade in a postgame interview after playing probably the best two Bo5s in his career? after literally everyone wrote you off? After you literally just proved that, actually, yes I can hold it together and win a final and overcome mental blocks and still improve after 8 years of professional play? You really just want him to be a good little boy going "oh you know, G2 and fnatic will always find a way to bounce back, I guess we were just better on the day, gg to them"? fuck that, let the guy go off plus, calling Rogue an "Odo-team" after that performance from every single member is a bit rich. I for one am more optimistic now than I was previously. MAD didnt win a single Bo5, Fnatic only made it to playoffs due to Upset 1v9ing despite Humanoid and Hilly consistently inting out of their minds, and G2 relied on Caps and BB going off every game. Rogue showed that theyre good enough to exploit all these weaknesses. thats just a net positive. is there a possibility that this is going to be an Alliance style flash in the pan? absolutely. but id still rather have this Rogue at worlds than the one we had two weeks ago. bc if Rogue hadnt shown G2 up, the LPL teams at worlds 100% would have. Now they know what to fix in their game a lot earlier.
@@Sachnix i mean hey,it's great that he can finally improve after 8 years and actually win a grand finals - but it still doesnt justify him acting like rogue and fnatic were being held to a double standard,when the comparison was just off,because those were "literally" different circumstances - his teams famously did well in regular seasons and then "literally" fell off in high pressure games - whereas fnatic was "literally" very up and down for most of this split and people didn't know what to make of them,also the players don't have an 8 year history of choking in games and now "literally" in interviews LOL. I mean hey,this time he at least saved the choking for after the games, so good on him! Btw. this isn't silly tribalism for me - i don't feel hyped about either western team,the west will probably have a hard time this year,i don't know how you can see that differently if you watch LPL and heck,even the top3 LCK teams will probably be tough.
I think people sleep on Armut though because iirc he does the most damage on the team as a top laner. Poor odo though, probably would have beat DWG if no sickness. Khan carried that graves series iirc, I hate the “community”, if you can even call it that, because they aren’t developed humans with logical takes
Never in my life did I think that I would see the day Monte and Thorin discuss the nature of belief in God and atheism on Summoning Insight. Props to Thorin for dropping the truth bombs from CS Lewis.
With Co-streaming and Live Viewing taking over, I wonder if you guys could fuck Riot by competing with them, create your own desk and have your own casters. As long as you don't show the game riot can't say shit about it. I wouldn't be surprised if you could beat Riot in some time.
2:23:15 Just for the fact to see Bjergsen playing with a different jersey versus TSM is Marketing gold... it is impossible to turn down and say he is too rusty to play.
2:49:45 I think this person is asking have you heard ratirl's music playlist/ song choices before, he's an eu streamer that comes on dom's liveview/costream from time to time, known for L9 and twitch gameplay. He was also the person that counted how many pinks malrang was buying every game and told dom about it on stream.
1:34:05 Of course it was a stomp in all 3 games. The reason Thorin cannot grasp the sense of the stomp is that RGE played their lead very safely and conservatively cleaning the game one and two in 35 mins instead of 25 min. G2 lost every teamfight in the series except one in game 2 when RGE had 9.5k gold advantage and were indecisive regarding the mid inhibitor destruction. The last game ended in 26 mins with a 8,5 k gold lead and he says it was not a stomp.....? Give me a break. G2 has never been humiliated in such a way in the past 5 years by a western team and he says it was not a stomp ?
I also do feel bad for the teams to some extent. Pro sports meta changes are slow and small, so building rosters allow a lot of informed decisions that will stay true for the length of a contract. In League, Riot can change the game on a dime to make players literally become more or less useful overnight. To compare a mid laner to a QB would be like saying if player X is a God tier control mage, but we also want him to be able to play utility if things suddenly change and one day be an assassin maestro, maybe? That's like telling your QB, well you're amazing at slot passing but maybe in week 7 we want you to stop that and become mobile and run the ball half the snaps. Oh and if we make playoffs you're going to hand the ball off the entire game but occasionally we want you to throw bombs. Sound good?
TY Thorin @1:14:30 making the point that winning NA is means very little to the top teams. Winning w bad strats doesnt mean much if it fails everywhere else.
I've grown to love the taste of my own blood. Sadly, no razors in the cake this time. Loved the bitter old man energy Odo was channeling in his interviews after the finals.
What a cool narrative is it that Trymbi is like a genius of support champion picks, a mad scientist even, VS Targamas who kinda had that Carry-Support/Master of all supports where Trymbi shows the Soraka, crushes, then Targamas in the final game flips the card being the master of all supports, to try and take the soraka away but failing to surpass Trymbi. That Zven mithy angle is SUCH a missed narrative opportunity. That is anime-levels of narrative-twists. I remember when Zven was Niels and he and Origen were the ancient ones / Oldguard of Fnatic built by Xpeke with SoAZ. Niels was the potential nemesis to Rekkles that time and that playoffs finals was legendary. Mithy also being an ex-support and Zven all grown up has switched to his role is also a crazy thing to have not brought up.
Belief in science isnt belief in randomness. If anything science takes randomness out of the equation because it explains how and why things happen. An animal evolves due to its environment, not randomly. In fact, randomness is an illusion. Nothing is random and that's scientific. Everything that happens is an effect of a specific cause.
How do they miss the most obvious mismatched nickname... since Thorin criticized him for years: Rekkles should be called "Cautious". He is the best clean up ADC in the West, but he hasn't made any reckless plays in the last 8 years.
Which LPL team will collapse this year? Taking bets and hoping it's EDG bc A. Always want new teams in finals B. Like the C9 make it out of group of death narrative C. JDG and TOP have no World's history yet
My personal preference for subs would be to have 3 tiers, non-emergency subs that if used would forfeit 1 ban per day left until the match for the team announcing the sub and could not use the og starter during series (Dani woulda been this due to the timing), one emergency sub for each position and the emergency must be disclosed to the other team (obv can't use of starter), and 2 mid-series subs.
It's an interesting system, but could teams not just delay announcing their non-emergency subs in orden to slot into the emergency subs category instead.
For the Febiven from different regions question: TBQ won a LPL - don't know how that one happened, but I guess 2015 Summer LGD was just too good in all their lanes or what.
Really appreciate you guys being there to provide the much needed criticism for these situations. Anyone who doesn't believe you guys are of value to the industry really should read animal farm. Everything goes to shit once there is no more snowball and you are left with a bunch of Napoleons.
I was watching the LEC finals and the only thing I could think was that G2 didn't actually play badly, Rogue just played so good man, it was actually insane to watch how amazing Rogue played. I don't even think G2 played bad, it's just Rogue was leagues and leagues ahead in that series.
As Thorin said all rogue players played really well all series long, that is why it is difficult to state that Larssen is/was better than Caps right now/for that series. It is similar to the Flakked angle if you take it the other way around, were Flakked looks fine when the team is winning but really bad when its not. On the other hand Caps had some shining moments despite the 0-3 and all the positive moments for G2 included Caps. Now Rogue did not lose a single game this series so it is unfair to compare that angle, but in previous games/series when Rogue lose Larsen doe not have those shining moments. They usually come from Trymbi or somebody else. Having said the above I believe that Larsen certainly outlaned Caps whole series long, but maybe banning at least 3 champs against Caps each game played a role in it :)
there is no way to seed the worlds teams from 1-16. They are in separate leagues. If it were an open circuit, you could rank them based on circuit points. Bit since they don't meet each other throughout the season, how can you objectively decide team rankings? It's completely subjective whether GenG is the best team or JDG or someone else. They don't play each other so how can you know? It would be purely eye test, which is subjective. What Thorin suggests works for CS and Dota because it's open circuit and possible to rank the teams. LOL uses domestic leagues and you can't do that objectively.
What do u guys think about Berserker to G2 instead of Flakked in case a good / bad Worlds showing? Also about the "Can Larssen win an MVP" idk but seeing how not only Jensen but PERKZ doesnt have 1 makes the chance really slim.
Why would Berserker or C9 do that? Berserker might want a better team, but probably not worth the pay cut, especially since the west is never going to win worlds. C9 is also obviously happy with Berserker so they won't be releasing him.
Berserker isn’t even that good on the eye test, it’s just narratives, Luger matched him. Hans was having mental issues but I would still take him - coreJJ couldn’t hit a hook to save his life and he still performed good ig.
@@dragonplayz6606 Well apperently Thorin and Monty didn't see it that way seeing how they've said he could find a good team in Korea. Thus my question cuz he seems better than Flakked.
@@dragonplayz6606 ??? Dude what the hell are u even talking about? :D who cares about Luger at all? How is he even in this convo about a theory craft where Berserker is in G2
Nah the joke about low hanging fruit 1:08:56 should be that the reason why riot can’t get the low hanging fruit is because they aren’t great at grabbing round objects, they’re only really good at flicking them away.
You can make the same argument for Upset as for Danny bailing their teams at the most crucial moments. This is why LEC fans generally dislike Upset not because of Adam like some pundits want you to believe.
Only true on the very surface. Upset has 'influencers' like doublelift going after him, a possibly fake narrative of 'GF is lonely' is spammed repeatedly on pretty much all FNC games. Danny is different. Doublelift is a moron, but not even a moron like him would be dumb enough to make shit up and send mob on Danny. So the only narrative for Danny missing world would be the official talking points, and it stops right there.
The situation does seem really similar. However from how I recall the upset situation many people were actually supportive and sympathetic initially but turned when fnatic flopped without him, and I think Adam mostly just gave the green light to people that were salty and waiting for someone to supply them with cope. I’m curious how the narrative is going to shift if Danny doesn’t go to worlds and EG crashes and burns.
Just remember what xiaohu and faker did to each other's ahris with lissandra at msi. Larssen won lane against lissandra, caps' lissandra, ON AHRI! That matchup is impossible, but larssen did it! HOW IS TAHT NOT IMPRESSIVE
I came to these shows as a new viewer about 6 months ago, and as ive been enjoying the shows and learning more and more every day about Monte and Thorins personalities, I have to say, I've found myself seeing Monte as a bit of a pseudo-intellectual liberal twat when it comes to his takes on art and such topics. Now that being said, I'll shower some praise on him as well, I do love his outlook on the game, i enjoy his perspective on most things in the fan questions, I have no doubts that he is a good person through and through, but I just see myself disagreeing with him on some moral/philisophical issues like his fedora-wearing atheism, which is just cringe, plain and simple, its 2022, nobody is a legit atheist anymore without being cringe as fuck. But that being said, I do appreciate and respect him, there's a lot more to Monte than just that, it's just one part of his personality that I personally do not fuck with. And for thorin, every episode he seems more and more based. Hates identity politics and woke crap, when he told monte the idea of "killing god" in His Dark Materials, was "whack" i thought that was great. All that being said, I think the best part about this show is that the two of them can have such different personalities and still be such good friends and disagree in a civil manner about those topics. Truly a great pair and I'd never want to see them separated. But as is obvious, I'm a thorin guy more than a monte guy. And lastly, you guys have gained a fan for life. I live for these discussions. Its the only show ive seen that feels so real and raw, and has such diverse content because of how honestly you guys answer fan questions. I only wish I'd started watching sooner.
Also that Malrang gang topic is 100% results based analysis lol. If that doesn't work, its just a massive waste of time at best, and an int at worst lol.
