ROLI probably missed the last C for adding another Seaboard Block on the end, however, this is really annoying. Excellent review and so in-depth. Thank you, Robin.
It is annoying, but it'd be more annoying to have 2 Cs if you put two of them together, wouldn't it? So yeah, it makes sense and it only affects you if you're thinking from C to C. Perhaps it'll help escape that habit.
i don't t hink they 'miss' the 25th key to be honest.. suprise surprise.. their Roli 25 has well.. 25! yes 25 keys.. and something which I still find more useful: The MPE Control Settings for adjusting the Range of the 5x MIDI expressions on each preset. Every single sound needs these controls to be adjusted and tweaked constantly. So it's a real drag to keep stopping and having to adjust these fundamental controls on the dashboard.. it just kills the whole workflow for playing this instrument! But hey nowirres, because they have 'cleverly' created another Roli block to their Roli 'bollocks' line!! I guess this is just for us to keep 'investing' right? And no mention of having to also pay to unlock Equator and be able to use this instrument properly.. Especially, when there are no synths with full MPE support yet. Honestly, their corporate trap-thinking just s..ks.. in my humble opinion..
There is a perfect logical reason to the 24 key layout (perfect 2 octaves) and the "missing" no.25. It's because these seabord blocks are intended to be daisy-chained. That would of course be very weird one side of the daisy-chained Seaboard had two C's ;)
Robin, you’re right that the seaboard block is not a direct substitute for a standard midi keyboard controller in particular for piano type parts but...it can work as a compact controller in a table top environment. Blocks dashboard offers the ability to change the sensitivity of the velocity map so that you don’t have to hit it as hard as you were in the video. You can also save that configuration so that it can be recalled later should you change it again. If you have one or more Lightpad blocks linked in, you can set them up as controllers for virtually any parameters in either the virtual instrument you are using or even the DAW, again all recallable within Blocks Dashboard. I am another who finds the blocks system very usable even with non MPE instruments and the reason is that these controllers along with stuff like the Linnstrument allow for intuitive and direct musical expression. The cellist, saxophonist, flautist, guitarist can add vibrato and volume/ tone at the exact rate and depth they want at any given time without having to go for a controller wheel or paddle. This is a game changer for the keyboard but as you rightly allude to, you won’t be able to master it without a bit of practise. Very few bass players are able to pick up a fretless bass and immediately play all their existing parts in tune without a bit or even a lot of practise. So yes, if you want a piano, it can be made to do it but it’s not ideal and if you are approaching your music as a classic “synthesist/ sequencer creating loops and then modifying tones etc. by twiddling knobs and plugging in patch leads, then maybe it’s not for you. But if you want to apply natural, real sounding musical expression to your parts as you play them, at the price point, it’s probably unparalleled. Oh, and the Lightpad Blocks are great for playing tunes on as well, with all 5 dimensions of expression - maybe you should try out a couple of them?
Thanks for your comments. It all comes together as a really nice system - but part of my personal remit was to deal with the product as it was - without upgrading Equator, without adding Lightblocks - how useful is it by itself as advertised? And in my view it's pretty great, but not for everyone or everything. For your application though - perfect!
Thumbs up on this comment, as I’m a fretless bass player digging deeper into piano playing and midi controllers. I had the wonderful fortune of finding an abandoned and then even further discounted Seabord block in a pawn shop. I’m excited about the prospects, enjoying the curve, and I’m finding my current dexterity and ear training transferring rapidly. I’ve caught some RU-vid vids that unwittingly demonstrate this instrument played quite out of tune. Nothing worthwhile comes easy!
There is a quick workaround for roli Bluetooth on Windows 10. Download midiberry and loopmidi. Not very elegant but does the job for now:) ps. Or spend £52 on a CME widi bud Bluetooth dongle.
Thank for the tip. I now have mine working with Cubase on my Surface Pro (albeit with a bit of latency) but it`s a start!! And, I`ll start hassling Roli to pull their finger out and get this sorted with Windows machines. They fobbed me off a year ago, but if a workaround can do this then they are being f*cking lazy by not get getting it fixed from their end...
In my experience Windows is rubbish when it comes to bluetooth and anything MIDI. I have several wireless midi devices and NONE of them work with Windows. I can use a wireless bluetooth mouse, and I can play music thru bluetooth speakers but that's it. Even bluetooth speakers have a latency that makes using any performance instrument damn close to useless, certainly for live performance. Roli and other bluetooth manufacturers should have a note on their web page somewhere that says to not bother with bluetooth and Windows and go straight to USB hook ups.
Thanks for the review, I just ordered a few of these after watching some reviews, but I had some doubts since just about every other review I've seen focuses on how cool it is, so I appreciate that you really sat down with this thing. My main thing is animation and illustration, so I'm no musician by any means (I probably have 10 minutes of experience when it comes to music) with that said, I just need a way to get some music for my animations I'm happy to hear it works well for that you mentioned something about it being "cinematic".
The last C is not missing but is an option for another block attached to this one. So if you attach two blocks one next to the other you will not have double C. Simple?
Thank you for that detailed review! Definitely the best, most compete Seaboard review I've seen! Love the candid nature. And to put Roli (the company) at ease.. despite the downsides, I might actually end up getting one.
I think the reason the C key is missing is because it's designed for being able to put several blocks together if you want to. If there was a C key at the top when you put two blocks together you'd have two C keys next to each other.
LOL, yeah, lets have it for us snubbed windows users making music! :) Good presentation but you waffle on and overelaborate too much making the whole darn thing too bloody long to watch! C'mon, lets cut it down to under half hour! I know you can! ;)
Love the HHGTTG reference... Release velocity is for varying ADSR release speed. Make a note cut off more dramatically by a quicker release, and then fade out more slowly by a slow release (faster key_up event). I suspect MiniMoog is responding to aftertouch, but it’s not mapping to that CC because the other CC messages are coming in first (your fingers move forward and back even when you are trying to just press inward). If you could force the Roli to NOT send any other CC messages at the same time as you’re pushing into the surface, the MiniMoog MIDI learn would map to that CC.
at 15:54 that's not a C, you think your pressing its a B. apart from that your review is great :) I use the seaboard rise, it does take some adapting from the standard keyboard.
Roli is vaporware. Attractive products that are integration nightmares. I’d rather purchase a controller that actually works with my synthesizers or an instrument that actually contains a sound engine
A terrific review which does not fail to point out problems, as well as the good features. In fact this controller is very useful for controlling complex parameters of virtual instruments (violin, trumpet, clarinet) from Samplemodeling and Audiomodeling. Thanks
17:13 - this is because you can connect second roli block to have 4 octaves and NOT doubled "c" key - in fact when we have low budget and decide to have onli one Roli block, then lack of this "c" pitch is annoying
Yes that's right..... so the two Roli keyboards are identical yes? Both have missing top Cs right? Put them together and now the left hand one has a top C (the bottom c in the right hand Roli) - with me so far? But the right hand Roli still has no top C! Look it's not a big deal, i understand the design decision and you're not the first person to be upset by the injustice of my criticism - but there you are :)
In Reaper, my only gripe is pitch editing is useless because the resolution of the lane is out of whack. They haven't bothered to fix that in years of people requesting it.
Your video was interesting and well done. There is a learning curve in playing this instrument. However MY opinion is the Roli is more like a spongy piece of dog crap that's been left in the sun too long. OF course Im basing that on Roli poly customer service when the USB failed after 6 uses and they did not at least offer to replace with a refurb unit so I could finish my CNN score. NI did when things went south. No fault of the component Roli said? Reeeeeeallly? BTW the 88 key grand is discontinued so sorry Grand owners
I don't deal with companies who don't give all features of software, I do like this but you're relying on their software totally, which Im trying to get away from. Great video.
Epic review! Thank you for putting so much time and effort into this review. Indeed the keyboard has a strange grabby silicone surface and odd foam inside. The Linnstrument also seems like an interesting contraption. . .
I hope they will come up with something wearable, keytar or ......... Nice video as always . In reason you need to create dub track and of you go . Cheers
I only watched part of this, the latter part which was most relevant to me. Seems like you really understood these. I have two of these. I LOVE them but they definitely don’t replace a piano imo. Noise, the app for iOS is absolutely terrible. The sounds are great but the functionality of the app for looping etc is absolutely abysmal, beyond a joke. The touch block, loop block etc are vastly overpriced, and only necessary if you are using a computer, an ipad screen makes them pretty redundant. They also basically only work as is in Noise/Equator. I think it would be better to use a separate much cheaper midi controller to control what they can do. In Noise, the best sounds are the SWAM acoustic modeled sounds of saxes etc. These are absolutely incredible. But if you want to use them outside Noise or Equator, in Audiobus, AUM, GarageBand etc, and put effects etc on them, then there is only one way: get a second ios device and route them to an audio interface as line in. In other words, treat them as a hardware synth! I ended up getting a second ipad so i could do this. You also need to get at least two seaboard blocks if you want to play with any level of expression. Missing that top C is too frustrating otherwise. So, here’s what you are looking at if you want to use this with any kind of freedom: 2 blocks, an audio interface, 2 ios devices or an ios device and a laptop, paying more money for more sounds in Noise or getting Equator fully version. Plus, if you want to play piano sounds, you basically have to buy a separate standard midi keyboard. PLUS, you are currently very limited as to what 3rd party synths etc work with this. Currently, a few of The Moog ios synths work well, Volt works great. Tardigrain is OK but has no pitch bend. PPG Infinite doesn’t work properly as its maximum pitch bend is 24, you need 48 to get proper glissando. Many other synths would work better if they went to 48 on pitch bend, but many only go to 24. So, you can meet a lot of frustration owning these. You can end up buying apps that you think will work well with them, only to find that you have wasted your money or are limited in what you can do, compared to how it is with Roli’s own sounds. However, they work extremely well with certain sounds. If you have the money, get two, get three, get a second os device, it’s worth it if you want to be able to play incredibly realistic string and wind instruments on a keyboard, and play synths more expressively. They also feel great to play. I have also had problems in some apps with notes sticking on the seaboard. And Roli’s customer support is currently incredibly slow. Currently seems to be often around 1 or 2 weeks!!!! It’s early days for this tech, I’m sure it will get better.
ROBIN... Seaboard Block works wirelessly in Windows 10 with the CME WIDI Bud. www.cme-pro.com/forum-index/topic/roli-seaboard-and-widi-bud/ I'm using this setup right now. Awesome!
Hi ! I really like how you reviewed this . Can you suggest among these midi controller to pair with this roli to have a big area to create music. M thinking between APC 40, MASCHINE MK3 OR PUSH 2. m more interested in fun live session nothing into too complex recording and stuff. M new to this whole world of electronic music . Please suggest sir but for live sessions
Hey - those midi controllers have a specific purpose and so it depends on what you want to use. Push and the APC 40 are designed for Ableton Live, so if you are using Live then they are a good choice. Maschine is designed for it's own Maschine software and NI Komplete - if that's what you want to use then get that. Check out what other people are using them for.
I wish you can just plug and play with the seaboard to any hardware synth ....without use of apps or computers or midi hosts..... No one wants to have to bring computers to a gig.....
Thank you for the comprehensive video. May I know if your seaboard block was connected directly to the surface or was it connected to another interface (which was in turn connected to the surface)? Looking at this to connect to my thinkpad which has thunderbolt 4.
Molten Music Technology true. but as an owner of 2 Keith McMillan K-boards as well the extra key in the middle was really annoying. so I prefer it this way. :)
Jesus Christ! I don’t see why you couldn’t understand on the why they did only 24 notes. How else would you be able to do add another seaboard to it? It has to loose a note in order to be able to expand. It’s like bitching about why legos have the bumps on top of their blocks! Lol
Ha! It’s just a design decision that will always be annoying no matter how many you have. I do understand the reason but that doesn’t make it less annoying to play.
One thing is making an honest review another thing is making fun of other people's work especially when you never did learn to properly use the gear you're reviewing.
would you recommend this for someone who wants to use it as a midi controller but also learn some piano? or woulda digital piano be a better option? thanks.
Very informative video. I watched hundreds of them but yours is the most comprehensive one. I just ordered a Seaboard Rise 49. It comes with the full version of Equator. An it fits very well to my studio set. I have some Native Instruments stuff, so I can use a bunch of Kontakt instruments in Reaper all with MPE support. I'm very exited. I'd really like to know in which condition the rubber surface of your Blocks is after these two years. For you I think you choosed the wrong Roli product. You'd better orderd a Seaboard Rise 25. It has the third C, the keys are bigger and the Equator is bundled in full version.
I am a Roli Seaboard 49 user and is a joy playing the 49 keyboard. I got my Seaboard 49 way before the Blocks modules even came out and wanted to try the new expressive playing technology. Along with the 49 keyboard it came with the full version of Equator and the Dashboard software. With the initial patches/sounds for the Equator, I can also download many more online preset sounds for full version of Equator. I connect my Roli 49 via USB cable to a Windows computer. Yes the Roli 49 is expensive but for me found it was worth the money to have. Note: there is no extension capability to the Rise 49. When I saw Blocks, I really didn't care to get the Blocks keyboard mainly because Blocks does not have standard size dimension keys to play on. I dont need Bluetooth cause I am permanently setup in a studio environment with the Seaboard 49. The Blocks, if you add/extend more keyboard modules, I think the slide bars only work the length of each module, far as I know??. My Seaboard 49 - the slide bars will function the full length of the keyboard. If you dont mind the smaller key size keyboard, the Blocks should function the same and at less cost - then my Seaboard 49.
OMG !!! "and it's as if they're kind of in competition with ableton for creating the dullest looking GUI they could possibly come up with". I laughed so hard at being offended as an ableton fan :D (well i actually switched from ableton to reaper but not because of the GUI, i miss the ableton GUI)
On a point about the software, I was really disappointed to see that I needed to borrow my roommate's iPhone to get my blocks updated, just for Blocks Dashboard on Mac OS to read them. Seeing your bluetooth issue for your Surface tablet sums it up - they catered these devices to be iOS friendly, but really need to get the computer markets better supported - both Mac and PC.
Regarding non-MPE compatible instruments, I've seen a few videos of people using it with Native Instruments Kontakt, wish you would have touched upon that in your video (so it could be 2 hours long.... :D), as that's my main reason for being interested, controlling orchestral sample libraries using it.
Oh lovely reliability and compatibility with the bluetooth... More of the Roli level of completion. I’m not on Windows any more, but shit, Roli. If it doesn’t work, don’t advertise it.
Wonder if this will end up in the growing midi controller pile that’s in the corner of my studio....lol.Great review though love the molten music stuff.👍🏻
Thanks Robin VIncent for another full and REAL review. MPE is certainly a work in progress.. I would really like to see how the Roli would work with PPG synths on your review as they claim is 'MPE compatible'. Altohugh, I have been able to use it only in Mono, and even then it's very 'inconsistent'... Same thing for intricate multi-ltibral synth set ups within DAW's...Cheers
That was the best Roli review I have ever watched and it also came with quite a few good laughs. I found the Roli block difficult to use and just impossible to use on a dark stage (all black keys). I may try one with full size keys someday but for me the blocks version is only good for solos using the Roli Equator software and not some watered down version. For piano type playing I found it useless and less expressive than a traditional keyboard. Thanks for the great review.
this has been incredibly helpful, thanks for breaking this down as much as you have, learned a heap. until watching this i was going to pass on the seaboard because, as far as i could tell, only the slide input could be mapped at your total discretion. bitwig to the rescue. would love to see someone do this style of pure input breakdown for the square blocks, and the loop, live, and touch blocks
Thanks This Video was useful, I was considering getting the Roli Block now I'm not all that enthused with the product especially at it's current price.
@21:33 You might also like the snapcases, which add some additional rubberized friction to hold it in place better on most surfaces if you're playing it more expressively.
What a beautiful review! When I was watching the first 20 minutes, my first thought was: how well does Seaboard Block (SB) work with Bitwig _AND_ modular systems? And then you did a deep dive into it! :-) You covered it in every detail. It figures that SB doesn't have a decent Reason setup yet (they're probably working on it). One concern I have is longevity over that squishy material. Probably after 10 years, that stuff it's made of starts to flake off, maybe I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like it would do over time. The sounds generated from the SB & the Equator sound like the damn thing can play itself. Very nice sounds coming from it. If I had an SB, I don't know if I'd use it instead of a regular controller. Like you said, with the Roli Blocks it might be fun, but I wouldn't want to learn piano on it (or maybe one should? I don't know). I definitely need to put one on my buy list for this year. I wanted one last year but I bought so much stuff at the time, I didn't see the point in adding to it. Clearly, I didn't buy enough stuff. lol.
Very good review! I recently got my songmaker kit with full equator and it is very different. You can play it as a piano, but it does not make much sense. Just when I am on the go (just own a big MIDI keyboard with is not fun to walk around with). MPE is awesome but very different to play. And I prefer the usb connection with my new MacBook Pro 2017 instead of bluetooth because of some minor lags. So far so good: very interesting but completely different instrument :)
Excellent and thought provoking review - important point about will it work for you and while you might have various bits of kit you think you will use it with it's only until you've got one that you find out if it actually does or not - and if it does work with a bit of kit you have is it that awesome to control the filter, resonance, FM depth, release time plus a bunch of other things all at the same time?. My advice for anyone is to try and get one as a demo for a while. Re the Rise I think a huge difference is the 3 sliders & X/Y pad. In MIDI mode that gives you an additional 5 MIDI CC controls on top of the 5 within the key wave part.
Thanks for the very in depth review, Robin. I have played with a Seaboard Rise (in a shop) and did find it quite intuitive for me personally. In Cubase, if you set the MIDI channel to "any" would it not record all the data on one track?
cool kbd. Expression is SO important. its the soul of music. happy to learn about this product. loved the review - awesome. I was wondering if the expressiveness can be notated in cubase like or in a proper notation software. ( all these .25 notes etc.. ) important.
Good question and honestly I don't know. I imagine most score software would route the different MIDI channels to different staves and it would all fall apart at that point. I tried a bit of "MPE and notation software" and didn't get anywhere.
thank you for going over the midi 1.0 implementation details. do you know if there has been any community projects to make mapping midi easy for DAWs like ableton?
1:11:08 - you should buy two ;) Maybe they'll send you one. Plus maybe give you the full version of equator so you can review all of those features as well. I somehow got the full version (maybe with the Song Maker Kit).
With 2 you'd still be missing the top C. I think it's fabulous with their own software but i wasn't interested in doing a puff piece on how great their own eco system was - i was more interested in how it fitted into an existing environment.
*Great* video that expresses how I feel about my Role key block too ~ when it's mad it's great. And then sometimes it's... blarghh. BTW - did I detect a bit of the Bagpuss melody in your end music?
I love your in-depth reviews! MPE is super exciting to me, but I haven't had a chance to really try any of these kinds of instruments out and feel like it'd be best to wait a year or two for the tech to mature just a little bit more. Have you ever looked into the Linnstrument?
@@MoltenMusicTech Thanks I've been looking for a good midi controller with great aftertouch and it's interesting how hard it is to find. Any suggestions?
It really depends on what you're looking for. MPE controllers tend to be weird and don't play anything like a piano. You'll find regular (channel) aftertouch on most MIDI controllers so just go with the one you like the look of. If you want poly aftertouch it's actually hard to come by on its own - it tends to be on a synth like the Hydrasynth - many people mistake regular channel aftertouch for polyphonic aftertouch, because channel aftertouch feels like it works polyphonically.... but poly AT means each note can apply aftertouch to that note only.... if that makes sense. Best bet at the moment is the Korg Keystage, but with MIDI 2.0 launching properly this autumn (i believe) maybe more will arrive www.korg.co.uk/products/keystage
@@MoltenMusicTech Yes! I’ve thought about the key stage but heard mixed things. My Keystep has aftertouch but it’s sort of hard to press down. My Sub37 has great aftertouch though. Just amazing how difficult it is to find a solid mid range midi controller
Hi, I'm starting to use MIDI in my music making. I'm getting surgery soon and am losing the ability to play 2handed instruments for a couple months. I'm looking at the seaboard so I can control some effects with just one hand. Do you know if Reaper can control MPE "Expressions" like bitwig can at 41:50? I don't think I have the money to buy bitwig, and my university doesn't offer it. Amazing amazing review. I really know what I'm getting now. Subscribed
Another thing, I think I just missed this section, Can it just function as a barebones midi keyboard as well? If I don't want any of that 'expression' in a performance can I 'turn it off'?
Yes, Reaper has the ability to record and edit MPE info - not like Bitwig exactly but it can be done. I’m pretty sure the Seaboard comes with an 8 track Bitwig. And yes any non-mpe synth will just behave like it’s any other midi controller- you don’t have to map the expression controls to anything.
