Route 12: Melbourne's Oddest Tram Route 

Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

Thank you Qazzy. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Having travelled on the route in the process of filming, I agree that the trip from South Melbourne to St Kilda is indeed very calming. As for how long the route has been running, the current Route 12 has been running since 2014.

I completely agree with all of that! As a St Kilda local I used to get the 112 if I went out to Brunswick St or places like that, it was really handy. There are a lot of reasons people would travel from the inner-south to the inner-north & vice versa since both are nightlife hotspots. The 96 does this well linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Carlton, Carlton North & Brunswick East; and the 112 was a very complimentary route in linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Fitzroy, Northcote & Preston. Considering the Route 78 pretty much already links St Kilda to North Richmond (despite the signage saying "Balaclava" the southern terminus is in fact in St Kilda), it seems a bit redundant have a second route travel from St Kilda to North Richmond but just via a much less efficient route. My suggestion would have been to retain the 112, and perhaps just extend the 78's northern terminus to Victoria Gardens. As for the 16, that is definitely a strange route. It does have some use, because people may need to travel from St Kilda or Balaclava up to suburbs like Malvern, Hawthorn & Kew. I actually used to get the 16 to commute from St Kilda to Hawthorn when I worked in Hawthorn. However, I can't actually imagine that anybody would ever need to travel from the city to Kew via St Kilda like you say. As at least a small improvement, the 16 & 3 could swap their routes through St Kilda: - The 3 could be the one that detours via the beach; - The 16 could be the one that continues straight through the middle of St Kilda on St Kilda Road That provides 2 benefits: 1. The much longer route (the 16) is taking the shortest route through St Kilda; 2. It would add low floor trams to the stretch of St Kilda Road between the Junction & Carlisle St, which is entirely accessible stops but is currently only serviced by non-accessible trams from Glen Huntly Depot. The larger B-Class trams on the Route 3 would also add capacity to the St Kilda Beach area, without having to take a service off the St Kilda Road stretch for the weekend like the 3A used to do. While the beach area is more of a destination, St Kilda Road services a lot more St Kilda residents so I never liked the idea of the 3A on weekends. Simply swapping the 3 & 16 around would address issues of both capacity to St Kilda Beach and accessibility on St Kilda Road while keeping 2 routes running along St Kilda Road 7 days a week (the 67 & 16).

That makes a lot of sense - might be worth suggesting that to PTV! I've written to them before and they do forward feedback to the right people to investigate (though whether they act on it is another matter)@@JesusManera

​@@rodrigodelpratGood suggestion!

Good point about the 16, having a route that basically does one massive u-turn around the suburbs is quite odd, and the fact that it also crosses other tram routes which take a more direct route into the city makes it useless if you want to go to the city from Kew. However, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't travel huge portions of Route 16 to get to places, and it is quite useful for people travelling down Glenferrie Road.

@@tekkies-transport the u-turn shape makes a unique occurrence on hawthorn road with route 64. The citybound directions for routes 16 and 64 are in opposite directions

Awesome, thank you!

@@tekkies-transport no problem 😉

@aoipe I don't think there's any C-Classes (C1 or C2) at all, but unless you know tram number(s) of the C2's you won't spot since livery is same as C1s (& Ds & Es). As you know they're called C2s here, you may know Bumblebee Orange livery was changed a decade ago. After being bought outright in 2012-13, after being leased for use Melbourne as were surplus to the demand in Mulhouse, then. Apparently. Numbers for the C2s are: C2 5103, C2 5106, C2 5111, C2 5113, C2 5123. (just have number, not the C2, on them, just put that if you'd like to google any). As the 5 Bumblebees were excess to Mullhouse's needs at the time, Do you need some trams back, now? You're welcome to have some D-Class ones lol. Yeh, D's were built in a country next to France, but is only 5km from Mullhouse, & is close enough lol to sending them back 🙃. I & some friends reckoned Bumblebees looked great, & are good ones to travel on.

@@CBM_Walks As the finances for our extension was canceled back then we don’t need them back. I will always recognize them because of their custom made head with the inclined side-windows. Btw, the next country to Mulhouse is 18km away- Germany - and 35 to Switzerland. Have you noticed that every Bumblebee had a different design (color)? Here the numbers have been the same, just in the 2000 instead of your 5100.

Bonjour! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I did actually manage to film a C2 Class tram, as they do run down Spencer Street. I was pretty lucky to get footage of one, as they are only 5 of them here in Melbourne, and they only run on Route 96.

@clawscrab how in any way, from at end of the 12 would "2 left turning tracks at St. Kilda allow for the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" ?? 🙃. I guess you actually meant outbound right/west turn tracks, into Fitzroy St. (There's is a single left turn service (non passenger) track at end of Park St/#12) Also by "the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" did you mean terminate at Acland St terminus? Or to Carlise St/Acland St junction, and then continue along Carlise St?

There are less complexities at intersections (St Vincent's south-bound left turn is always congested, and the southern cross station south/east turn delays the signal) plus the other routes could all carry more capacity easily.

​@@ultrajaywalker hi my comments were only in respect to his suggestions he said in the video, with him saying to take the #12 off Collins St, & what I would consider, if so. As I wouldn't take the #12 off Collins St, nor (unlikely*) put the #48 back to Flinders St & along all of Spencer St to Latrobe St, a lot of what i said I wouldn't do anyway, if I was doing tram network re-routes/overhaul. Except for Marvel Stadium/Victoria Harbour Shuttles to Melbourne Park being created (& that doesn't relate to what he said nor my comments re if #12 was taken off Collins St Your comment has "less complexities at intersections"; did you mean other complexities as you go on to describe issues at SCS stop, & St Vincent Plaza, or would be less complex to do re-routes at those 2 places? Changing routes where there's already turn tracks (& are re all my comment/suggestions) are no more complex. As I don't get trams in morning peak hour - but I do evening peak - through St Vincent's Plaza, I never seen more than 2 trams at, or 1 at, & 1 coming into that stop. Left turns from Victoria Pde into Gisborne Macarthur St are only delayed due to being 3 intersections being controlled/sequenced in the road traffic lights sequences. There's no delays caused by the trams, As soon as a CBD bound tram has loaded at south stop, it moves ahead from it, & waits at the traffic light. Only issue is if tram is waiting at west-bound roadway of Victoria Pde, to cross it, & 109, 12, 11 comes in to the Platform. Tram has to wait till next cycle, to be able to go through. (Trams get 2 "goes" there in one full cycle of the traffic lights, by the way. I've stood at the stop & watched the tram/track light and traffic lights). As for turn from Collins St, into Spencer St to go south (& only 2 routes trams), putting the 12 via Latrobe St-Spencer St wouldn't make any difference re time for it, or 109 to get through the intersection. Barely, at least. The #11 got it's own Outbound Platform at St Vincents, so more trams could come in there at same time, & so as #11 would block the other routes and vice versa. May not be room for it but a separate outbound platform & splitting from the other tracks (like at St Vincents) is something I'd consider

@@CityBeatEntertainme5 I meant removing turns at those intersections to reduce signal cycle length and reduce overall complexity at those intersections (for all traffic, tram/private vehicle/pedestrian). As a user of morning peak city-bound route 11 services, almost every day without fail the trams leaving Brunswick St always get stuck and wait at least one entire cycle to get into St Vincents. I have waited in trams that have waited three entire signal cycles, and those are not short cycles let me tell you. You are right, the trams can wait at the turn signal but the stop still doesn't fit another full low-floor (or if it does the morning drivers are not doing it and I'm not sure why) BUT there is a much greater length of time that trams can through run straight through Victoria Pde so it would almost eliminate that issue. 11s heading in the opposite direction have a whole other dedicated turning track and these run fine in my experience. "A tram turning, waiting at the westbound road lanes to go into Gisborne St does not block the #30 from going through" - as far as I'm aware all low-floor trams block the through-running trams if turning due to their length. Concerning SCS, that turn signal does add a massive wait and wastes a lot of precious time in the morning peak when you add it up, and having 12s run straight with ped and vehicle traffic would do wonders.

I know. When I left it was almost at 100 views. Now it's at 6.5k! Definitely a shock to say the least...

Route 96 would probably be faster as it runs down the light rail. Also, I am aware that Route 12 diverted via La Trobe Street during the pandemic (and still does during major events), I purely forgot to mention it.

@beasts4life-99 Route 96 seems faster, but also depends on where you start. From Stop 124 Clarendon St/Casino-Convention Centre, on weekend it is same travel time (according to PTV journey planner/timetable), to Park/Fitzroy Sts. Only difference in Total Journey time is Walking the few hundred metres from one route's tram stop, to the other's. Since Batman stop & Crown/Clarendon St stop are the only stops (i'm fairly sure) that share the 12 & 96. If coming from Southern Cross Station, only difference (in time) is the walk to the 12 stop on Collins St, since stop was moved 200 metres back from Spencer St. During weekdays peak hour, the 12 is 4 minutes longer from Stop 124 or Batman

I can take either 12 or 96 to the city. I find that if both routes reach Fitzroy St/Park St at the same time, the fastest one is always the one I didn't get

@@tekkies-transportWeekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124.Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124. Well, that was interesting, to check PTV re Tram travel times. Weekends, same time from the 2 Spencer/Clarendon St stops they share (Crown & Batman Park). As that's the only stops they share (?), only difference in total journey time was walking from one route's stop to the other route's stop. Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124. I had always thought the 96 was quicker from SCS, but if I was at Collins St Stop #1, I wouldn't save any time (in total travel time), by walking to the 96's Spencer St/Collins St stop. However, I Still Would walk to the 96 & get that, as that passenger crush load, from the stops near SCS to the Crown Stop can be awful, often. Tho, perhaps is bit less crush on the 12 outbound. Certainly isn't any less crush inbound tho from Crown To SCS. Couple times it was so bad, I've started getting off Southbank Junction aka Port Junction or off at Crown, & walk to Southern Cross Station. I will stay on if going further into CBD. On a 30C day like today, I would perhaps get the 96 since it's always E-Class & have good conditioning. Route 12s/109s (where share tracks) D-class & A's aren't the best trams to be on, on hot day (why do some D's I get on, aircon isn't working well. At least with D's design with the single seats, can grap one and won't get anyone sweaty next to me, or should that be no one has to sit next to me lol). Perhaps some of you Melbourne transport youtubers could do a challenge, to see who gets from a stop in city, to Fitzroy St/Park St Kilda. Only fair place to start would be North-East corner of Collins St/Spencer St, but it'd be more interesting from Spring St at equal point between the two. But normal pace walking only, as running to stop/tram (or train) doesn't prove or disprove anything re travel times on PT.

@@andrew7955 Hi & lol, As I was looking at just outbound trams (re my comments), I quickly glanced at inbound journey times, & believe it or not travel times into the CBD - to same 2, only shared stops on Clarendon /Spencer St aren't same as outbound. Also St Kilda/96 trams inbound always have to wait & give way to all 109 trams. I believe it's about a minute's "clearance", so if a 109 is approaching, but still back (& not seen) from Southbank Junction, 96 has to wait. ALL trams must stop at the Split going either way, but inbound 109s pause is quick

That would be ideal…

It's definitely an A-Class, the easiest way to tell is where the route number is on the destination sign. The Z-Class has a separate frame/panel for the route number that sticks up higher above the destination sign (similar to the old W-Class in that regard), whereas the A-Class has the destination and route number all on the same panel like the B-Class. Another difference is the A-Class doesn't have a rear door whereasthe Z3 class does.

@@JesusManera no I’m talking about the size

@@JesusManera I’m not getting mixed up. I know the difference between an A class and a Z class

@@TurquoisechannelshortsYTthe capacity of a class trams is smaller than the z class trams