Hey Everyone! Thanks for watching this video, I have an update for the MSI Suprim Liquid X card. MSI said my GDDR6X VRAM temp readings look hotter than expected, and I will be returning the card to them so they can check if there's anything wrong with the cooler mount or otherwise. The card performed as I showed you though so I'll be leaving this video up, but I've added two links to the description with reviews from other channels -- Techtesters (who showed gaming VRAM temps in the 74-77C range) and Optimum Tech (who showed 80-82C VRAM temps during a Furmark stress test). Other MSI Suprim Liquid X Reviews - Optimum Tech: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TmbOew3HIZk.html Techtesters: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kiza_FTzbHU.html
Paul I doubt you'll see my message but I just picked up a 4090 suprim liquid x and I have afterburner 4.6.5 and newest Nvidia driver. My card runs 2865mhz stock settings and my power limit let's me go to 125%. Edit- just figured out why, I have a different bios then you. @Paul'sHardware
@@paulshardware I have a lazer gun that reads temp. I use this on vehicles a lot, this might be a more accurate easy solution since you can point it between the fins and get an actual temp reading.
150 premium on AIO is not a bad deal at all - for comparison, just a water block from AlphaCool for custom loop will set you back more than that. The question is whether this time around they used appropriate materials or it's still bound to corrode through and terminally fail after few months of use. Both MSI and Gigabyte released junk for 30 series in this regard.
@@justinvanhorne9958 Seems to be the case for all RTX 40 series to be honest - I'm yet to see any available for it's MSRP. Over here in the UK prices are ridiculous - Asus TUF was supposed to be same as Founder (1699gbp) yet it somehow managed to go all the way to 2100... that is if you can even find it anywhere in stock since apparently they've had like 3 of these cards for the entire country by the looks of it...
@@justinvanhorne9958 MSI said it was an error. The increased price on their site was only up for a couple hours. There was no price change notice sent to retailers and the retailers kept the prices at the original launch price. However, MSI does have a history of charging above their MSRP on their site during the RTX 3000 shortages.
The on screen teardown is good, as long as the information is exactly what's in the card. Physical teardowns are good for DIY repair and refurbishment, its nice to see the little tricks during disassembly that prohibit "one click or push" and its broken.
I really enjoy this type of comparison. Seems like the raw performance is pretty equal. But if you have a network, sound, or storage card installed then the MSI might be a winner due to space. And if you want something quieter, then Gigabyte gives you that with their fan/cooler design. And of course if you want the most aesthetically pleasing, just pick your favorite and don't worry too much about losing performance.
I've heard it suggested elsewhere that Nvidia are binning their GPUs and keeping the best for their own FE cards - which further makes the value proposition for 3rd party cards challenging. This was part of the discussion when EVGA left the market and how they couldn't make a profit when directly competing with Nvidia - particularly when their solutions with increased cooling and power delivery were having to try make up for the silicon itself potentially being slightly less-capable.
yep, cheapest 4090 Strix I can find is 2500USD here in Denmark (or 19000 DKK), altho lesser variants like the TUF version can be found for 2.1k USD (all out of stock though, only preorder). To be fair, the 25% sales tax for the 1600USD msrp does equal more or less that price, around 2-2.1k USD so it's not as bad as what I've seen elsewhere, but some places still try to ask almost 3k for base spec 4090 cards. 3 years ago you could get an entire top-end gaming pc for that money. Also Founders card just straight up isn't sold here, at least not yet. Who knows if Nvidia will even bother.
Paul, your videos from around 12-13 years ago (when you were still working with Newegg) taught me how to build desktops. And now here I am still watching your content. Thanks for reviewing and comparing two different models of the cards. I'm obviously much more knowledgeable about this stuff nowadays, however, I am looking for both the performance and temperature differences between all of these 4090 cards - as I plan on getting one (if they're ever actually in stock, haha). So, needless to say, it doesn't seem to matter which one you go with in terms of gaming performance. But the temperature differences are definitely interesting. So thank you for showing that! I have pre-ordered one of the new power supplies so that I don't have to use that crummy adapter cable... But unfortunately, the PSU will arrive next week which will be way before I can even order a 4090 lol. Oh well. Maybe before the holidays I'll be able to snag the MSI Suprim X (air-cooled edition). Fingers crossed 🤞 And thanks again!
if possible, I would love to see a direct comparison of the gigabyte waterforce vs the gigabyte windforce cards. the waterforce has an integrated 360mm aio and a full-cover block design that cools gpu, memory, AND power delivery. and I *think* the board is the same between them...
I'm going to put a ekwb waterblock on my gigabyte gaming oc 4090. I'm expecting zero performance increase and just the benefit of a small total gpu and block integrated into my existing waterloop. I'll run the card aircooled for a while and I expect its just fine too.
@@ghomerhust :). Having 3x360mm at 45mm thick and 9 fans helps the cooling of everything. You just gotta be bothered with the hassle of adjusting your loop and pipework each time you make a change :).
Its not a full cover waterblock, the waterblock sits only on the gpu and just the copper plate extends over the memory and vrm, water is only flowing over the gpu part of the copper plate, its no better than this msi.
In Europe we have Value Added Tax everything msrp + VAT €20-€25% Not only do Europeans pay crazy high taxes you also have to pay crazy high taxes on each item you buy.
@@n9ne I tend to be a pretty liberal kind of person in terms of my beliefs about taxing, and I got to say that sucks. taxing income progressively is good. taxing consumption is regressive and bad. of course, I feel the same way about my state (damn you Washington, you're so cool in other ways).
12:37 100% power limit for different models mean different things. On a Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX4090, 100% power is 450W while on an Asus Strix 4090, 100% is 500W. You need to consider what the 100% on a Suprim X is to know the actual power limit at 110%.
@@splashindapot Still can't get one, the why is irrelevant. I want less youtube videos showing the 2% difference in FPS and more videos on HOW to get these cards for MSRP in the first place. By the time I could buy a 3080 it was too late to matter, and now I cant get a 4000, it's retarded. Even 3080 Ti prices have gone back up because people bought all the sub 900 ones.
@@splashindapot You can find one. I bought one from MSI on release day at 3AM eastern. They got sold out within 10 mins when I was sharing links though.
@@Cruor34 Most people who really wanted the 4090 on Day 1 already got one or secured an online order. Not to mention that after the crypto bubble burst there isn't nearly the same demand for these cards as there was 2 years ago. RU-vidrs have no business trying to tell people where to buy these cards, because the information can become outdated very quickly during the first couple weeks of a hyped up launch. You aren't going to wait 2 years to find a new card at MSRP this time.
I have a think for AIO coolers. I really enjoy the freedom to move the heat load from the middle of the case to the outer edge., allowing the rest of your system to run cooler.
I think a better video idea personally would be how the FE versions of the 4090 hold up against the base, MSRP versions from each manufacturer. Would be interesting to see how they all perform and it'd put to bed the general belief that Nvidia "bins" the best GPUs for themselves.
Not that it matters *that* much, but I think a graph of fps/watt would be neat to see which card is more efficient in terms of the frames it's providing, rather than having to do the math ourself. Honestly you could do watts/fps, I just thought that people would like the graph to be "bigger bar mean better" so thats why I said the other way around. If you're clear that smaller bar means more efficient, then I think the numbers look nicer when its watts/fps because its above 1. To be clear, I know Watts/frames/second is the same as energy/frame (because power is energy over time). So you could also graph energy per frame at the average(or median if theres spikes/outliers) fps. Ultimately just an efficiency graph would be nice / neat to see.
Next you'll try to say binning isn't a thing at all 🙄 One of their best AIBs didn't jump ship for nothing.... Hell just listening to their own words makes it clear that they would bo that and more
@@Talishar I for one am fat from interested in such tests, but if you must have some sorta "proof" that binning might not be a thing, Jay's Founder card didn't exactly stack up against others who have posted OC records, though that can be chalked up to silicon lottery. Or is that also not a thing to you?
Nice job on the review. It seems like some cards have the voltage locked and are up against the voltage limit, so increasing the power does nothing. But the voltage is adjustable on some. However it also seems like overclocking doesn't gain much performance and produces a lot more heat. What I'm gathering is that all the cards are very similar in performance and the FE is right there with everyone else.
I went into the launch trying for the Suprim Liquid but ended up with the Gaming OC. After seeing those memory temps and noise levels I'm pretty happy!
@@BenMagargee Ive been waiting before even 3090 for this card ^_^ Im so happy to be able to play games on max settings for once. And thank you! I got reallllly lucky
I’ve got an innox3d 4090 OC It probably has the more discreet and smallest design from all the 4090s And I’m really curious about why I don’t see reviews about it. Seems to work perfectly in terms of performance, and temps never get over 66c
Maybe they didn't send so many review samples to the English speaking market? I'd never heard of inno3d till I started looking at their 4090 with the alphacool waterblock.
That's good to know they are all pretty similar. I tried to get the suprim liquid first that sold out first, I ended up snagging the gaming OC on launch day and it's been plenty fine good to know it's not a big performance trade off and if anything the memory temps are a bit cooler which is nice
If one was worried about the rad getting too hot couldn't they just add a couple fans to change it into a push/pull? Or just upgrade to some better 140 rad fans
I tested on my 360mmx30mm rad and the temp barely drop 1 celcius at 300w hot load. burger rads ain't efficient for 30mm slim rads but much efficient when it comes to thick ones like 50mm 60mm rads
@@redclaw72666 maybe they want to show you the authentic performance you can get entirely out of the box, yet personally I use only arctic P12 and P14, those are the best of performance-acoustic-cost balance
I think my blood pressure raised a bit when I reflected on the fact that he has THREE 4090'S and tells us we shouldn't buy one that's overpriced like we would ever want to. Bro ,you guys HORDED THEM ALL!!!
Here's a dumb question for you Paul. Can you test this card at a 350w power limit? Really curious to see what it would do with a lower limit for those that want to have the big dog but don't always want to run it wide open all the time. The MSI has the best aesthetics of all the cards tested so far. it has a clean subtle look that is just what i want, but way outside my budget.
There are some reviews out there that tested just that and turning the TDP down to 350W or even 300W will make for like 10% less performance at max with the benefits of a more manageable and more stable power draw + lower temperatures. I'd actually recommend doing this~
Voltage control is not a thing for 3000 series and newer Nvidia cards There might be outliers that have voltage control if you use the manufacturer specific software, but MSI afterburner is basically the only that should be used anyway
derBauer had a look at overclocking, and the limiter was voltage even with it maxed out in the software. temps and power limit weren't stopping it. I think he said he was going to talk to someone (Elmore, maybe, cuz dude's a wizard) about overcoming voltage input limitation :)
Need to see full GPU block numbers...the AIO GPU coolers are fine but they never perform as good as a full custom loop. 70 watts of more power gave like 5-8fps increase? Wow that's actually really bad.
big reason I am considering the liquid card is that this card, the FE, and the aorus liquid cooled variants are the only 4090's I can find that are less than 320mm, which is the max length my case supports!
It’s also worth noting that the CDPR engine has traditionally always run better on intel hardware by ~15%. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Raptor Lake avg around the mid 50s fps at native 4k full rtx settings.
Suprim vs Waterforce next please 😄 Waterforce has cooling for the memory and mosfet, wondering what the temps would be with that additional heating element.
I would rather have the disassembly in a separate video where you also compare them to the FE. FYI: A hot radiator is a good thing because it means it is going it's job highly effectively. I mean you do want the radiator to give off heat, right?
My only concern is what happens if/when the pump on the MSI fails. I have had a good experience with MSI in the past and currently, but dead pump means dead 4090. Also, the smaller size on the card is nice, but many smaller cases won't be able to fit the tubes coming right off of the side of the card like that when many cases require a custom cable like a 90 degree.
Hey I don't know if you'll even see this comment over a year later but I've been trying to just find dimensions of 4090s for comparison to try and figure out what might fit and these days I find the width of the card (that is, how far it projects perpendicular to the plane of the motherboard when socketed into the PCI-E port) is probably more important than length given the inflexible design of the power adapter. Still a great video, and thanks for everything you do.
Hi Paul, would like to get your opinion about the reputability of the remaining 4090 GPU AIB's now that EVGA has left the scene. Who can we trust after spending $1600+? Who has the best RMA history and customer support? Evga had your back, but I've heard not so good stories of pretty much all the rest, gigabyte especially.
EVGA was a huge loss to the gpu market. I purchased nine of their GPUs through the years. Their customer support and warranty were second to none. Other than them, I did own one msi card that I never had issues with. So, I can't speak to their support. I did have to RMA an ASUS motherboard. After arguing back and forth a few times, they had me send in the board. I got a replacement a couple months later long after I had replaced the board with a msi board.
I remember when everyone was mad that the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra was a two-slot card, it was way too big. Now people see that RTX 4090 Suprim and are thrilled that it's *only* two slots. Oh how times have changed.
the biggest advantage with the suprim x is that you can improve the gpu cooling and lessen the overall noise with a push-pull fan setup on the radiator... i did that with phanteks t30 fans that are much better than any aircooled fan, so i don't see an issue with overheated liquid shortening the life of the pump... with the aircooled cards you can't improve the cooling.
The lower GPU Power limit on the liquid version is due to an VBIOS error on the card; MSI already knows and has an updated version that theyre gonna push thru MSI Center soon
Sincerely I use a RTX 4090 Founder Edition and I never had any temperature issue or noise. It's very silent. My main concern is the HPWR12 connection spot temperature, it's insane.
Got the Gigabyte Gaming OC, it's a powerhouse, I'm benchmarking it in Blender benchmarks (because that's what I'm using it for) and it's showing good numbers, overclocking past 13000 with minimal effort and temps in the mid 50'c or lower (Room is 68'f). What I find confusing is the power (Using MSi Afterburner because the Gigabyte CC software kept crashing, even crashing windows for a while) it runs higher numbers at 50% than 75% than 133%. Even at 25% (which is around 150w) it runs a OC benchmark of 6792 which is around a 3090ti. I guess this means that 100% is 600w but it never gets near that in the graph, always topping out around 330w....not anywhere close to 450w - so I'm a bit confused, getting great numbers but the wattage looks low.
To me, the value is always how quiet can it run? I often play less demanding games or older ones and always switch to a manual fan curve with reduced power limit. Good enough FPS, low heat generation, and a quiet room are ideal for a comfortable gaming experience. Sound matters a lot, and this is something that AIB partners deliver effectively. I feel that most people are more interested in speed, heat, and power without regards to the cost in terms of sitting next to a hair dryer in a sauna. To me, the value in the 4090 will be to be able to get more performance at even lower power settings and noise, since I’ll be able to target an even lower power limit.
I ended up with the base MSI Gaming Trio card and I'm happy with it. Super quiet, stays cool even maxxed out. Weirdly, RAM is cooler than their water-cooled card, so glad I skipped the pump. (And as far as Nvidia competing with the other manufacturers, seems like they're managing that by having only made 12 cards. I wanted the FE and it sold out in seconds on Best Buy, with no restocks so far.)
My daughters share a room and have a single plug each, currently have a smart energy monitoring plug attached to each and there entire setup use between 150-200w each thats everything. lights chargers, monitors, PC. (Ryzen5 3600 and 1660Supers)
What I'm missing here is a discussion of cards blowing air into versus out of the enclosure. If you blow air into the enclosure you'll need an extra fan to blow it out, doubling the noise.
Those prices you show at the beginning don't include tax? I Finland all the RTX 4090's were 1999-2599€. No FE available here. Waiting for the Asus TUF OC tests! That's the 4090 I got, and I'm very happy about it. Good build quality, minimal RGB junk, efficient cooler, great BIOS x2.
AIB has stopped binning chips from 30 series. If you don’t want to give them free money, stop purchasing any OC model. 4090’s cooler design are all overkill thanks to Nvidia not sharing correct power draw info with AIBs. You won’t see any difference between $1599 base models and $1999 Rog strix.
wich video card would you choose for yourself? MSI 4090 Suprim liquid X or Asus Tuf 4090 OC ?? I have both and I don't know which one to keep and which one to sell.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the FE availability is a debacle. You can't even buy it unless you get chosen randomly thru the GeForce Experience app. I feel like alot of these card partners were either misrepresented on specs or they didn't think it thru very well. Right now I need a version of the 4090 that would fit a NR200, so that means it can't be too long or too thick and so far the FE and maybe 2 other ones might fit. The Liquid X can fit if I can find a location for the water cooler on top of my CPU AIO radiator. They would do well to revise the sizes. Why did they make it so much bigger than the FE? PS- Although the Length and Width of the Windforce might work for me, I'm a little concerned with the exposed fins being bent up against things. Although, I could put a fan grill on top of it. It would be the same story for the FE's spinning fan thats on opposing side.
Paul, could you please review pre-custom-water-blocked RTX 4090 cards? I believe the Inno3D GeForce RTX 4090 ICHILL FROSTBITE comes with a water block installed, ready to add to a water loop. I really want a custom water-cooled 4090 but am too nervous to install them myself and void the warranty, so will only buy one that is pre-blocked by the manufacturer. Thanks. :)
I think air and water are good elements for cooling. I think you'd need long tubes to make earth cool a GPU or CPU, but fire pretty much is a no-go. I think.
The 40 series cards are cool and all, but my problem with them (ignoring price and power consumption) is that hardware has so far outstripped any software I use that there is no reason for me to get one. No games have released in recent history that I actually want to play and there is nothing on the horizon that I have any hope will actually be fun, I can't even justify buying a 30 series card. At this point game designers are the biggest hurdle to me buying a card rather than anything else.
Doesn't gigabyte also have a liquid cooled option? I'd like to see it looked at. Also when ur done lokking at all of them it would be great to do a roundup and know which are the quietest and slot size and some other info. I think some of the bigger cards are going to pose real problems in cases.
I had a 2070 super for about 5 years. When I was installing the new 4060ti I noticed my 2070 super had a “standard” and “OC” feature like 4:30. Never saw it before or I forgot.
I had a water cooled msi 1080. It was a really incredible card, very cool, very quiet. Granted I only owned it for about 22 months (2-year microcenter trade-in back then).
It is possible to hear the water pump? When you are in windows without heavy usage of graphics cards? The pump must run all the time, right? Gigabite when stops fan is completely quite.
Hi paul, could you help out with your expertise and experience? I run my first build but it is loud and kinda hot and i dont know what i did wrong (need 2 learn how to undervolt and oc, but that later when i get more into that stuff) If you could tell me whats wrong it would be super cool. Ty for your video!:)
