RUGBY in CRISIS...and HOW TO FIX IT! 

As an American and outsider to rugby I have to say, its important to not lose the identity of your sport while trying to grow it. Yes the NFL is very smart and they've made a bunch of decisions that have resulted in the success they see today, but at the same time this doesn't take into account college football. The NFL outside a handful of the original teams, a corporate, lifeless product with a lot of glitz and glamor but lacking history/passion etc. College football is the spiritual home of the sport and where all of the traditions and passion lies in American Football, yes its not as big but in many places its significantly more popular than the NFL. I hope that in the future if rugby realigns and streamlines itself that it is still somehow able to preserve its history and tradition like we have

i am a rugby union and rugby league fan from australia. i see the trend in australia of rugby league DOMINATING spreading to the pacific region and new zealand in the next 10 years. if the NRL buys into the english rugby league i could see rugby league getting stronger in all of britain and spreading into ireland and europe. for the GENERAL PUBLIC, rugby league is faster and easier to understand. IT MORE MARKETABLE and EXCITING.

The huge problem for Rugby here in Australia is that Australian Rules - AFL and Rugby League - NRL competitions dwarf Rugby in every measure out there. TV audience, sponsorships, game attendance, participation, newspaper inches, radio shows, podcast, social media, played in schools, women's competitions and on and on. In the 2 main Rugby League / Rugby states of NSW and QLD Rugby League is 10 x more popular than rugby and It's boomed over the last 20 years while rugby has declined massively in popularity. The AFL and NRL have a huge advantage is attracting the best young kids coming through and career opportunities as well, which unfortunately reduces the player pool of kids wanting to play rugby. In Rugby League our game is littered with players ( mainly the backs ) who could be superstars if they played Rugby with their natural athletic ability And Rugby's rules are killing the game as a spectacle to watch with 20, scrum and 20 lines outs and 20 penalties and 10 penalty goals and drop goals with ball in play time half what you get in a Rugby League game I am a Rugby League supporter first, but most League supporters are also Wallaby fans and want them to do well as while the games are different 50% is similar and we will watch as long as it's not boring with stoppage after stoppage etc

I like your idea of bringing the codes together. The NRL is taking over in Aus and the Pacific but league suffers with no international competition, if some how the cides could come together union would benefit with an incredible domestic competition and league would benefit with an incredible international competition... maybe I'm just dreaming, as a wallabies fan I know our team would be unbeatable if we could get our hands on those NRL players 😅

Rugby has lost its spectator appeal. The rules are too contrived and officials dictate the outcome.

I was one to say "keep the 6 Nation as is", but this season and done of the things you raised here and the Egg Chasers has convinced me change is needed. Particularly in the Gallagher Premiership. Keep up the good work.

Great summary as usual. I recall when Canada drew to Japan in New Zealand this resulted in them finishing 13th and they just missed out on a huge increase in funding. Canada hasn't recovered from that and It would make more sense that the lower you finish the more money your team should get from the world cup proceeds to help improve the rugby. I mean to give the winner of the rugby world cup the most funding really does not help create that "any given Sunday" principle.

As a long term fan of both rugby and league (I’m nearly 80 ) . I’ve also played both codes (not at high level. I played league for my small town in NSW and Rugby for my college at UNI. I have been watching the NRL in Sydney since 1964. League in those days was possibly as popular as Rugby and the internationals against NZ were v popular. The NRL did not have the 6 tackle rule back then instead they had the unlimited tackle rule. Huge immobile forwards would “ cart it up” the middle until they reached the opponent,s try line. I t was called the “ bash and barge” . The great change came in 1966 with the 4 tackle rule and later the 6 tackle rule of today. Rugby’s problem at present is in my opinion is the constant unlimited rucking up the field leading to mistakes which then leads to scrums and further problems. If league and union were to merge I believe the a change in the ruck would improve both codes. Firstly, limit the number of rucks and make them mostly uncontested. This would still draw the forwards in and allow more backline play. This means both codes would have a six tackle rule and would be more exciting to watch. It is a dream of mine to see the great players we have in the NRL competing with the greats in union.

I am a hurling fan, and over 40 years ago when I relocated to Dublin, I noticed that during Wimbledon all the children were on the streets with tennis rackets. Dublin was unusual in those days in that it hadBritish channels unlike most of the country and it was the same during the cricket. season My first sport is hurling and I have always bemoaned the fact that success in the sport was and is restricted to a small number of counties. Even back then I could see that the success of a sport was not necessarily all at one with its attractiveness, it is connected to exposure which leads to interest, participation and growth, but the small minded officials at the time were too covetous of gate receipts which resulted in a minimum of televised games. Thankfully, that has changed. Similarly, I have always loved rugby and have witnessed its expansion from being a minority sport in Ireland Unfortunately for the most part small minded people worm their way into the professional halls of sporting administration, because for the most part their face fits the small minded introverted space that they get to fill. I love the story line about the ecumenism in the AFL and NFL which I had not heard. Sadly it is a rare occurrence as it takes a big personality to burst through the vested interests and the multilayer political fiefdoms of most sporting administrations. One caveat though, a sport can get over exposure which can lead to disenchantment so I would be somewhat reluctant to tamper with a successful product such as the 6 Nations but there is certainly much food for thought and all sporting products need constant efforts to attract interest and all that follows

Would agree with many of your points. However you probably should retitle this "English Rugby in Crisis and how to fix English Rugby & also Welsh Rugby"

Such a massive topic well summarised. As you said Tim, too many parties all looking after their own interests. IMO we weren't ready for professionalism, leading to opportunists and wealthy "fans" looking to make a quick buck and build their teams/nations, blinkered to the bigger picture. Sadly we are now paying the price for the lack of a plan all those years ago. I really can't see a way out in the shorts term as the bankrupt guvernance can't afford to pay off the gazillionaire owners to enable us to start again. Keep up the good work.

Rugby Union and Rugby league have both diverged into practically different sports. I don't see them ever come back together. It's like trying to merge rugby and American football.

Your conclusion is so true, RU is almost RL 20 yrs ago and the island teams would have a much greater chance in WCs. 6Ns is becoming stale and Tri nations is becoming repetitive

The big problem with the idea of recombining the two rugby codes is that whilst they superficially look similar, their mechanics around possession are fundamentally opposed. Rugby Union at its heart is about the constant contest for possession, which is what makes it often scrappier at the breakdown and also incentivises a certain level of conservatism in attack lest you be isolated. Rugby League is about maximising and incentivising attack first and foremost and thus operates more like the NFL does with something closer to downs than rucks. That difference may not be immediately perceptible for the neutral observer not familiar with the sports, but for players the on-field tactical implications of that little difference make for a vast chasm in how you play the game. On top of that, the biggest Rugby League competition in the world is the NRL in Australia and it’s on the cusp of expanding to 18 teams, has a thriving women’s competition and is experiencing record high crowds and ratings. Meanwhile, Rugby Australia have just contracted to a mere 4 teams and the game has been haemorrhaging support for years and so the idea of “merging” with Rugby would be seen as a huge potential risk to the NRL because it would more likely weaken its product by slowing it down.

Only just discovered this video and it raises some points I wasn’t aware of (as a massive rugby union fan). The points about the different bodies not wanting to change and pulling in different directions isn’t a huge surprise - this is the sport that (finally) went professional less than 30 years ago….. which I feel is also a major factor to the problems now. I’d love to see the sport expand and give the ‘tier 2’ nations more opportunities to grow to become competitive. While it’s nice seeing your nation (as a Welsh man) do well despite recent problems, in the World Cup, the current state means at least two games of the group stages are null and void for Tier 1. On an international level, the new nations championship will hopefully help things improve and maybe in 20 years it will be a more level playing field. As for domestic, France are flying as your pointed out, the rest need all the financial help they can get. With WRU, there is a feeling on the decision makers at the top are reaping the rewards, while even the regional pro teams are having to make budget cuts, let alone the lower pro and semi-pro leagues. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that there RU bodies are in the same place. We need an upheaval across the board and whole it won’t be perfect, it could mean the difference between the sport surviving or becoming a non-entity viewed by the future generations. I’d love to see more topics like this on the channel.

This video made me hungry for both food and wanting rugby to grow! You’re absolutely right regarding the pie - why isn’t there long term thinking, what’s stopping that from happening and how do you even begin starting the narrative of joined up long term thinking.. sadly I can’t think it’s going to happen 😢

As an Australian who has grown up watching both games but barely bothered with Rugby in the past 10-15 years I wonder if our European colleagues understand how far Union has fallen here. It’s irrelevant now. The Wallabies from the 00’s are household names still. I can’t name a single current Wallaby for you. Rugby here is near the bottom of a terminal death spiral. League and AFL are the two entities fighting each other not League and Union. Oh and they both have equalisation policies like the NFL so that is a proven success policy. The question here is does league see any value in buying our rugby brands or does it just let them die. There are also early signs of our NRL starting to do to Rugby NZ what it did to Union in Australia. That should be concerning for World Rugby if the All Blacks end up anything like the Wallabies. What’s in it for the NRL? Well, we currently have one of, if not the, strongest domestic comps in the world and arguably the best players and yet our Wallabies are what we show the world because all our best players play league. An avenue to put our best players against the worlds best would be of interest.

Yes everything you said was great, if I was to add anything I think we need to change the world competitions so they get more country's into rugby. My example for what this should be is Seven nations league one England Wales Scotland Ireland France Italy Georgia Seven nations league two Usa Canada Portugal Spain Romania Russia (if you don't want to bring them back, you could have the Netherlands take their place. Although I wouldn't do that as the amount of money USA VS Russia games would bring inwould be insane) Switzerland AOASA (Asia, Oceania, Africa, South America) league one New Zealand Australia South Africa Argentina Fiji Japan Samoa The AOASA league two Uruguay Tonga Chile Namibia Hong kong Brazil Korea Then have the two winners from the seven nations league two go into league one for the seven nations and do the same for the AOASA league. You could also have the winner of the seven nations and the winner of the AOASA league switch leagues for next year, to help make the competition more varied.

What a great concept Love the idea of rugby looking after it’s self. I’d happily support lobbying the clubs around this 😊

Wonderful video Tim, covered a lot of points that I've also thought about, 6 Nations , a slight change of format would help , if we class the current 6nations teams as category A and three of them played a game against Georgia and the other three played a game against Romania, this would give everyone 6 games ( 3 home and away ) , a Grand Final for the best two teams from category A , with Georgia and Romania being classed as category B , they'd each have 3 games v higher opposition, the rest of their games could be made up with games v category C opposition, Spain Portugal and Belgium etc , gold , silver and bronze plates could be handed out to these teams in order of merit ( I'd have to email you the format Tim ). Definitely on club competition, I believe it should be a British/Irish and South African competition, by looking at the NFL formula , I'd like to think that the rugby boffins could come up with some competition that would see teams play some teams from their own conference and some team from the other conference , teams could play other teams from their own country/league in regional cup matches . Pretty spot on your points on American Football, I read a wonderful book about ten years ago, America's Game by Michael McCambrige , yes certainly a few lessons that rugby could learn from the AFL/NFL merger . You only have to read some of Nick Cain's brilliant articles in the Rugby Paper regarding the difference between how at the elite level in English and French rugby, the French game is runs o good ,in fact in France some even predict that it'll eventually overtake football as the number one sport . Nothing controversial in my opinion about rugby union and league ever getting back together ( although unlikely to happen ) It'd certainly be a major shot in the arm for both codes that are certainly a lot closer together than say 30 years ago ( just look at the amout of former rugby league coaches and players now involved in union ) . Finally , with the sad demise of Super Rugby , It'd be nice if the powers in rugby could arrange something to have a Pacific Conference for the Heineken Cup, obviously this would mean Super Rugby would have to reduce the amount of fixtures in its competition , but games could be made back up by Heineken Cup matches with the best 4 teames from the Pacific Conference qualifying for a finals series, this could see each team ( Pacific and European etc ) playing 2 games before going into a quarter final knock-out stage ( obviously these games would have to be the finally of the club season ) , both Heineken Cup and URC in my opinion should hold the semi-finals as a double header at a host stadium with the final the following weekend, not only would this be great tourism for a host city , such as Dublin, Cardiff or Edinburgh etc , it'd certainly help on player welfare by not seeing a team have to travel to a another hemisphere for a final the following weekend fron the semi-final , and as for having teams coming over from the Pacific Conference, we could host this Heineken Cup finals series in Europe biannually and South African and Australia/New Zealand the other years , just think of the potential money maker in an annual clash of Leinster v Crusaders etc . Anyway if youre still reading this Tim, you can now look the assistant in Waterstones in the eye and say " give me War and Peace " , I've hit the subscribe button and best wishes for the future of the channel mate

You're threading a very fine line here with romanticising US sport. I've lived in North America and while the money and obsession is real, it's literally all about winning and nothing else. The notions of community and genuinely having your heart in the team is completely lost over there. For me, I would not long for an NFL model no more than a football one. Rugby needs work, but these are not what to aim for.

Great video Tim. I remember watching those two games between Bath and Wigan and the excitement felt about how Union could develop over the decades that followed under professionalism. How sad to see how wasted all that potential has been. The game may be professional but it is run by amateurs. Small minded; self-interested, petty individuals. I have met some of them in a past role involved in the game and I recognise your eye-rolling at some of the attitudes.

The "Drive to Survive" style series has worked in Rugby before, the 2 examples being: Chasing the Sun(Springboks 2019 RWC) & Two Sides(RSA VS B&I Lions 2021, having both teams behind the scenes) both made and distributed by SuperSport here in South Africa🇿🇦. Both series were received very well with Chasing the Sun being so popular that they made it available to international TV audiences. SuperSport had exclusive access to the dressings rooms(before the game, halftime and after the game), the hotel rooms, the training grounds, team Busses etc. and none of the players in both series had a problem with the cameras. SuperSport a few decades ago did a series called: Springbok Saga: 1995 - 2007 where they documented the journeys of Springbok players/coaches between 1995 and 2007 when the Boks won those RWCs, unfortunately its rare to have that series air here in South Africa let alone internationally, just to show as a proof of concept that it does work and that we as fans can in some way connect to the players beyond the rugby field. Its a shame that during the 6N some teams didn't want the cameras present with them.

Class commentary. The idea of the unification of the two codes is mouth-watering

Personally I would love to see the ideas mentioned in this video implemented. I live in leeds and granted the north of England is more heavily biased to the league code I would love to be able to visit a leeds union match that at the same calibre as that of the bigger names in rugby. To much rugby seems to be kept down south, we need a country wide initiative.

Great vision tim, if the powers that be could only see it that way🇿🇦🤘🏻

Wow. What an idea. I wonder what ideas and compromises a joint venture would bring. I personally see them very distinct and very different from each other

Agree with all of what you say although NFL don't have internationals to think about. Rugby does need a visionary to shake it up massively though. It should be huge!

Love the video, and I hugely agree with the sentiment, but not sure I totally agree with the conclusions. The example of the NFL while it's a nice analogy to use, it's not the best imo, I think a counterpoint that is more akin to rugby is Football, they operate in a similar fashion to rugby, with different groups pulling in different directions, but it is still the most popular sport in the world. The US market is huge, but I don't think rugby should sell it's soul in order to break that market. F1 is currently trying its best to do so, and as a huge F1 fan its turning me off F1, the US model isn't as suited to a European/ROW market. I think we could pursue an NFL approach, but what we would be watching wouldn't be the rugby we love anymore. I think the first question has to be, what is the end goal? Are we looking to have rugby being more popular all around the world, but the product diluted so much that it's no longer identifiable as rugby, get rid of scrums to speed up the game, have gimmicks like in NFL, introduce a draft as opposed to acadamies, all that goes down a route where I wouldn't be as compelled to watch it. The biggest worry is that rugby seems not to be sustainable at the minute. So a restructuring of some of the competitions may be needed. URC has restructured and is now beginning to turn a corner with the addition of the SA teams. Like you said the Top14 is going well. But the Champions Cup isn't in a better place than it was prior to EPCR replacing ERC and SuperRugby is in an apparent decline. The international game relatively speaking is booming, but that is what World Rugby want to mess with, because they stand to benefit. I know standing still is to move backwards, but change for changes sake isn't always positive either. I don't have any solutions, but as you can tell by the length of this comment I'm also hugely passionate about this point, and I love the content you're producing, cheers.

Very insightful. I do wonder it will be possible to get this kind of alignment from so many different nations. One reason the NFL has been so successful is that there were fewer stake holders. Also the anti trust exemption helps.

What if we are looking at this the whole wrong way , What if League and union where to merge under one umbrella “World rugby “ but keep rugby league but change it to rugby 13s , You would have : Rugby 15s Rugby 13s Rugby 7s This would help rugby league to grow its international game and be run by a professional organisation, But also keep there identity and style of play , It would result in “Rugby” as a whole working together to increase its popularity around the world I can’t see the NRL coming to the party as a merger nor can I see world rugby coming to the party . It would be a match made in heaven and would get both sides to put the knifes down and work together to grow the game around the world , If the rugbys were United in Australia it would do a great job fighting the AFL , The way things are going RL will be the dominant code in the southern hemisphere and RU will be the dominant code in the northern hemisphere.

Lots of valid and interesting comparisons with NFL. The key difference is the lack of any national or international competition in NFL. It’s the competing factors of club competition Vs national bodies that has been the overriding issue and the most difficult to solve, due to neither side being able to see the picture. The old farts analogy is still relevant to the national setups (certainly in England) and I can only see a change coming about through some form of breakaway from the traditional unions. Leave them to run the community game and have a truly professional one body to oversea all pro rugby. The last point on League and Union could work on a commercial basis, by having one franchise that had teams in each code. But any idea of merging the codes back together as one sport doesn’t. They’re two different games that share a ball that’s the same shape. Yes, some players of either code are able to play either but they’re different games.

Biggest problem resides in the physicality that requires a sport like rugby. Professionnal american football is basically only the 32 NFL teams and they are built on this huge foundation that is the true amateur root of this sport that is college football. The 32 NFL teams have the luxury to pick only the cream de la cream players and they only have to bother to play a 17 games regular seasons plus the eventual 1 to 4 playoffs games. With all that , it’s much easier for all the actors to pull in the same direction and provide top quality games each and every sundays. Rugby in comparison is a huge mess. Its roots reside in the International games which requires around 10 to 13 games during non WC year. Add to that the domestic leagues + the european cups and it’s easy to see that the product is not viable. I love Top 14 for instance, but they already have a brutal 26! games regular season and people are already complaining because too much of these games a biased due to the frequent rotations of the international players. If I am a Toulouse fan, I wanna see Dupont in every matchs I attend if he’s healthy! Otherwise why coming to the stadium ? We need to reduce clubs schedule for 1) quality reason and 2) healthy concerns about the players. Problem: I am not sure clubs can survive that in the short terms without a Big financial help.

Half of rugby is doing ok... rugby league specially the NRL

As a League supporter who loved Rugby, Southern hemisphere is minnumbing boring. The N.R.L is huge is Australia and New Zealand. Smartly league has tapped into the the Pacific talent with thr success of Tonga and Samoa, I.R.B has always disrespected Pacific football.

So much to say but for, scale @Tim, international scale. US NFL does not have international fixtures, so analogy is limited. And international comp is rugby's unique asset. Even with combined rugby codes you'd still to need to align/harmonise all the international fixtures. Must retain Six Nations and emerging Pacific comp (surely one of the few areas of growth at 'elite' level in the world). Consider 2nd tier international regional cup(s) with relegation. Retain, expand international Euro-type club comps by adding similar southern hemp comps, global club trophy (Leinster vs Crusaders?). But it would all impact domestic comp, reducing availability of quality players to regional clubs and probably their viability. Is that what we're seeing indirectly in Eng prem? Combined league-rugby would address player pool, draft would help manage comp quality/consistency, but neither addresses need for better alignment between domestic and regional/international comps which would maximise visibility and investment. Someone should start designing a schedule around world cups.

Just a point with you talking about the men's six nations and the 3 league system at 21:10 , women's rugby brings up a good example of pulling in the same direction, with the WXV competition forming with a meaningful pathway given to more women's national teams. I felt it was a fair bit closer at the World Cup last year too, apart from a lack of funding for some sides (which still played great!)

It all sounds marvellous, think co-operatively, share the pie, expand the Six Nations, and so on. How about spending some time thinking about grassroots rugby, how about spending time thinking and planning to expand the number of Junior Clubs, thereby expanding the player-base? None of this pie-in -the-sky thinking works until you have enough players, and where do they come from? Mini and Junior rugby, that's where! If you want to get anywhere near realising these ambitions for the game, you're going to need a damn sight more kids playing at Junior clubs than we currently have, otherwise your dream will remain just that-a dream! Also, speaking as someone who always loved playing, you have to foster a love for playing the game itself, as almost the sole motivation for doing it, because those of us who played for years at our own expense kept turning up for the game, not financial reward. Bugger your pie! Just grow and encourage the sport as a sport, stop pissing about with the Laws(ban scrum feeding, have hookers hook, stop artificially extending the back foot, ditch lifting at the line-out etc), stop trying to turn Rugby Union into Rugby League with knobs on! The rest will follow!

Just discovered your channel from this video, you almost immediately earned a sub. I love this deep dive.

Great Video and ideas put forward. Coming from Ireland, i always support all the provinces because of they are doing well, Ireland is doing well. Obviously, at the moment (and really the last 15 years) Leinster are way ahead of the other 3. I'd like to see an equalisation of talent across the provinces but understand that having most of the guys playing at Leinster helps cohesion at International level. As you say, going into a world cup, it would be great to see a situation where the winner could be a Georgia or Fiji or Italy but i would take them being competitive noon walkovers and that only comes with equalizing money to invest in the grass roots and infrastructure of the individual countries plus, somehow developing the interest kids have in the sport from the under age levels (as young as possible)

Great video. Probably the best overview of the situation I've come across. I agree that the main issue is short-term thinking from people in key positions (to the point where I'm worried they aren't fit for those positions). I'd love to see the french model in the UK (I'd also want it free to air as I believe it's the only way for rugby to get the oxygen required to grow, but that's probably stupid). Love the comparison to the early NFL, hope higher-ups are listening! Sadly, I don't see the codes joining. The games have diverged too much (how would you reconcile the rules?) but I could imagine one going bust (not that I want that to happen).

American football has extremely few adult amateur players, and those there are are mostly outside the one country solution for US professionals. Rugby union has many, and their needs must also be part of the solutions (and I admit to being so tribal that I don't know whether the same is true for league). That amateurs should in effect only be young wannabe pros, most of whom will not make it and will give up the game, would be to lose much that is good about rugby.

For internationals I would leave the 6 nations and rugby championship alone. I mean you could add teams like Japan, or the pacific islands and play each team once instead of twice. I think that’s a good idea as it would improve those other teams and it would increase the chances of having varied winners as you only have to play the all blacks once. But this isn’t a hugely important topic in the grand scale of things and it’s up for the Southern Hemisphere to decide what they want to do. For the 6 nations as I’ve said somewhere else there is absolutely no point having a seventh team come up each year or anything like that. It doesn’t give them enough time to get to the standard and improve nor does it engage the fans when they see their team get pummelled. Italy have seen the pummelling but they’ve also had the guarantee of playing in 5 years time so have time to build youth systems and get to that standard over time and you’re seeing it start to come through. So you could potentially add another team or two. But that means more games and I think fans are happy with the current length and clubs definitely would suffer. You could do what the rugby Europe championship does with 2 groups of 4 and then 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd, 5th v 8th and 6th v 7th but I don’t think people would care too much and plus you’re not guaranteed to play all your rivalries, for example no Calcutta cup one year. And the other thing is adding a team like Georgia makes no sense economically as they’re a poorer nation and a small nation population wise. Spain would be the best as it has those and also has cultural and historical links and rivalries with all the 6 nations countries but they can’t the extra games and the fact they’re not the next best team in Europe so it’s unfair in a sporting way.

I don't always agree with you Tim but I've got to say I think you've nailed this. We should look at the NFL model especially the draft, this would draw in lots of interest for people on the fringes as well as existing rugby fans. Pat Lam has been saying the same for a while now.

Great point on merge of codes, everyone wins!!!

Learnt stuff i didnt know today ,excelldnt keep it coming

Great thought provoking video thank you Tim. I think the future model should be based on a hybrid of the French and Irish systems. Your point about federations or owners taking a hit now in order to make potentially massive gains later is correct but is there enough vision and "buy-in", I sadly fear not. Anyway, in a fit of optimism I have just this morning renewed my Ulster season ticket. Or was it maybe silly? Anyway, see you in Ravenhill again next season.

When you weigh up the time we were forced to watch TMO within the South Africa v Wales match you will be aware of just one of the problems within Rugby Union. It was so protracted it seemed unreal. Any dynamics within that game was slowed down to a repeated yawning pause. I seem to recall that refs used to make instant decisions without any issue. They obviously made mistakes. They still do. There will be at least 3 forward passes not penalised as far as the All Blacks are concerned every match they play, but that has always been the case. Add to that the very banal range of penalties awarded against the stupidity of the props activities when scrummaging, as they try to break each other’s necks, and we have a very distorted game result, based on boring penalties rather than attractive running tries. I am not saying get rid of scrums, but just bring them back to what they used to be when I was at school:- Push by all means. Push hard. Put the ball straight down the middle and hook the ball. As a result we might not need such over muscled players at 1 and 3, and as a result they could be better faster players, involved more in with the handling ball play. There are other points, but I think these are the most obvious points that are spoiling the game, outside of internal politics.

Mmmm....pie.....arrrrgggh🤤😂 homer Simpson 😂 tim you made hungry with all the talk of pie 🥧 great history lesson in the NFL for insight and contrast to rugby! Great video as as always pal, stay true to the cause🏉💪

As an American who has lived abroad quite a bit, I'm accustomed to the view (especially in Europe) that anything American would be a denigration of the great way things are done. However, the NFL is a really fun product. It's fun to have to have such much parity in the league. And it's fun to see new teams win. And it's fun to sit in crowds if 60-100k passionate fans even in smaller markets. It's a great product because it shares resources which prevents financial disparities and in the end everyone wins. And it did that all in the last 50 years. For me, European rugby would do well to pay attention (aka, maybe don't try to imitate European football).

Great options for solutions! Also if you are at the champions Cup final you need to hit up the gasworks beside landsowne road for some craft beer and a negroni!

World Rugby do not care about growing the game around the world. If they did France wouldn't be hosting the RWC, Ireland would be. In Ireland Rugby is the 3rd most popular sport, and if it had of hosted the WRC it would have boosted it by 10 fold. But yet, they keep giving the WRC to countries who have already hosted it. Also the 6 Nations wooden spoon, and the winner of the European rugby championship, should have a relegation/promotion play-off. If the 6N wooden spoon, wins it stays in the 6N, if they lose they get relegated into the European rugby championship. This will make European rugby more better, IMO.

Good video, appreciate the wide-view analysis!

Brilliant as always, Tim. Joining the two codes may be fantasy but interesting to think, as a union fan, what part of the game would you be prepared to sacrifice in order to merge the codes? The ruck, the set piece?

To show that the NFL comparison is not a one off, or only relevant because it is part of the worlds largest economy, another good parallel is also the state of world cricket and the rise of the IPL. The IPL followed the NFL blueprint, so anyone can win at any time, and the rise of it has been meteoric.

I think the English girls have solved it. Watching them playing out their ball in hand game is very encouraging. Obviously it would be good to see them able to compete in a tough game with a full compliment of 15 fit players for 80 minutes, but we can live in hope. It would be good if non bigoted wise masters of the game, could analyse and bottle the English ladies style of play. They themselves have looked at the game and taken all that is good from it and presented it in a complete set of players. From 1-22 they can call upon a full set of interchangeable skills to fit each situation. Botterman to Kildunne each have their own personal skills, which are polar opposites to each other, but obviously so complimentary. That has always been the beauty of rugby union. We are all aware of the big stick that NZ and SA try to wield over the whole sport. It would be ‘nice’ to think that egos could shrink to allow the game to flourish, otherwise I can see, that just as so much is disappearing under the influence of PC wokism, rugby may well go the same way.

As an American who follows all sports, including leagues from across the world, I have to say you are spot on. The NFL has the most parity of any American sports league. Rugby is a beautiful sport, but its predictability makes it slightly less appealing. However, if Pacific island nations, along with South American and African nations, become dominant, then the future is bright for Rugby Union. However, Rugby league might eventually move even past Union if the Pacific Island nations begin winning League World Cups and NRL continues to grow.

My solution: 1) Get famous Premier league football teams to buy stakes in rugby teams. 2) Then get said famous football teams to play matches in the United States, where they already have millions of fans (Man U VS Chelsea for example) 3) Before the Man U VS Chelsea match kicks off, their respective rugby teams play an exhibition match. 4) Cue American fans being blown away by Rugby as sport and cue NFL teams getting red faced by the power and speed of rugby!

I’ve not thought enough about the club situation so I’ll think about it and comment again in a few days lol. Probably would try getting more European teams in places like Amsterdam, heidleberg or Hannover or Berlin, Lisbon, Madrid, Bucharest etc into the challenge cup. Just for the pure improvement of those teams. And maybe a combined Iberian league, even maybe some Italian teams in that as well. And a benelux league or something. And premiership is a grassroots and marketing thing I think but as I said I’ll probablycomment again after thinking about it for longer.

100% on the topic. I have my own thoughts on how to fix everything, and rather than NFL, I'd look at a MLB with minor leagues theory. And internaionally, I'd have a 3 year world cup qualifiers... Ok, too many ideas for a comments section. Might need to start my own channel 🙄

Loved your video, especially now watching it in hindsight. I am of the opinion that nobody over the age of 55 should be on any board of WR, keep the sport young and energetic with fresh ideas. How about getting the most important aspect right. Look after your spectators and viewers and get their input in any rule change as well. How about a follow up as I think we have regressed even further.

At the end, the main problem of Rugby is that is played by 10 countries at high level, and around 25 countries at "reasonnably good level". World Rugby's main goal should be to develop the game globally, like Soccer. There are particularly opportunities in Europe and Americas. Let's open the competitions to them, or a World Cup every 3 years. Georgia, USA, Canada, Chile, Spain, Germany, Romania, Brasil, Portugal, Uruguay not to mention Japan and Pacific Islands of course. Let's add them to competitions to make Rugby become a global sport because the potential is there, and hopefully in few year's time, World Cup can include 24 or 32 teams. And a "European Championship" with 12 teams could help as well.

I'm glad rugby is NOT like the NFL... if it goes that route, and there are shifts along those lines, then you'll risk losing the humility/camaraderie side which many people and other sporting codes are almost envious of - the down-to-earth culture of the sport, which is like no other. Money is sadly the root of it. But a major reason the NFL is so successful, is marketing. USA knows how to put on a show, but you end up sacrificing key elements (sell your soul). The thing with Drive to Survive, is that yes its brought in the US audience, but just last week the drivers were complaining on how they're 'paraded' before the race and introduced in this unnecessary fancy show (unlike any other event on the calendar) ... its annoying and feels like "cannibalizing the sport"... point is the are pros and cons to all this... not everybody wins (thats just a catch phrase). The reality is that the NFL cannot be compared to rugby, because the NFL is not a global sport - its 1 country. sort through whats good and toss out whats bad.

Too much of rugby is driven by the pro game and making as much money as possible. To me, rugby is a game I loved playing. If people don't want to play or watch it then fine. If the top players don't earn much, then either play for the love of it or don't. If it means one devotes less time to the game, then that's how it is. If it's not on telly, then go and watch your local team or don't. We have a system or structure that's not sustainable and are obsessed with making that work because it means more money rather than saying it's our game play/watch or don't.

Thank you for the prep that went into this and very nicley put together with an intro, the story and conclusion with a question. Loved this type of content and learned more about the structure of the game too. To be a member of that french starting 15 vs the AB in september, I wonder if those emotions dont get the better of them! On the 6N it is a microcosim of the global rugby vision you describe. Each team can generally beat each other and its brilliant to watch. I understand why admins are precious about it and the revenue. But how can we keep the same essence and still grow it? The 3 tier 6N is a brill idea. Introduing relegation/promotion would be a start as you would have to promote from another 6N type division. At club level the Champions Cup and URC feature SA teams and the Super Rugby Champs feature Fiji teams - maybe these changes can lead to cracks in the international red circles? On the NFL I am a 49ers fan and my heart was in my mouth watching them through the playoffs this year. Following the story of a wannabe QB going 10 in a row and getting so close was emotional investement. One of the obvious contraints vs NFL is the national teams are spread globally whilst the NFL has all 32 teams within a few hours of each other. There are undoubtedly indigenous cultural issies to solve but trying to solve that on a global scale is another beast Bringing the 2 codes under one umbrella is interesting but how would you determine the best in the league/world when they play such different styles/rules. A 2 leg situation would just see each beating each other and nothing proven. One dirfection with a vision for all rugby would have to encompass all brands/codes and how do you administer that for the one pie?

One of the problems with saying you want Fiji or Georgia to be able to win the World Cup is that the things that make the NFL competitive don't work in the context of international sport. You can't take the best young talent in the world out of say England and tell him he is now Fijian. You can't tell France that they can't use all of their best players because their salaries are too high.

In France in fact we have more than 2 division, on the most important WE have in order top14, ProD2, Nationale, and Fédéral 1,2,3 witch is on a regional size

A good video thanks. To this day I find Euro rugby comps so confusing - URC Gallagher Prem, Heineken Champs League sooooo confusing. Nothing is streamlined and its all in bits n pieces. How can you unify fans when its all so bloody disparate?

Speaking England only. Central contracts UTTERLY unavoidable. The domestic game is simply not viable for the amount of teams in our league. Also love how the women's game is growing but we should have put equal or more effort into getting it into state schools. Our players by in large come from a small pool of public schools. You don't see rugby fields in state schools anymore and that is a bigger problem than people realise. It's a 'closed shop' once more.

Interesting thinking of this subject the other day. Rugby League dominates where Australian Rules does not. Corporate culture defines both. Rugby Union is something from the past. Hard to get anyone who can name the teams let alone the players. It is in reality a dying game, squeezed out by RL now more an aerobic sport with the almost uniform players unlike Rugby Union and it's slower paced anarobic play and diverse players Rugby Union's mistake was not going professional like Soccer and victimising the Northern Union because it did. I think Rugby League will eventually drop Rugby from the title and call itself something else. As it stands Rugby Union players do not last in league and vica versa

Just subscribed, really like the content, different to all the usual rugby channels just doing match reviews, rugby needs more new minds with critical analysis on how to grow the game

I'm eleven minutes into the video and you are bringing up the NFL. USA has a population of 360 million. There are 76,000 college football players, and 1.1 million high school players. England has a population of 55 million. It has 133,000 adult players and 5.7% of children from 5-16 play rugby union. As a guy who played at an amateur level from age 5 through to age 38 I value participation. I would hate to see a move that focuses on making the big games bigger and lets the grass roots die.

Brilliant exposition and to simplify I classify ALL PEOPLE into these categories Givers, Takers , Blockers,Sharers and some rugby union teams are takers and blockers. To create the attraction in the game it needs to become a Giving and Sharing community as a philosophy t hat will create aSYTEM that can be PROCESSED towards an exciting fraternity for all to enjoy.

I would have the rugby World Cup as it is. Well I’d expand to 24 right now and hopefully within 20 years make it to 32 but otherwise that’s in pretty decent shape. I think the biggest think rugby needs is regional tournaments, like a rugby euros. The top 16 in Europe play a tournament once every 4 years, in the 2 years between World Cup years ideally ie 2025, 2029 etc. This would be an exciting new tournament where lots of European nations, I’m using Europe as the example as I’m from there, to play each other in a tournament which many wouldn’t get as they don’t qualify for the World Cup. A simple 4 groups of 4 system would do. Maybe a 9th-16th play after the groups as well just for extra games for them to play still but I’m not sure how much interest that would get. The 6 nations and the 8 in the rugby Europe championship qualify automatically, and then probably the top 2 in the third tier so no useless qualifiers. Neighbouring countries have the rivalries already, you don’t need to build them up as much. And you could easily do this in the americas and in the pacific as well maybe, but Europe and the americas would gain the most from this system. I would move the lions tour to make way for it, probably to the summer after the World Cup where rugby hype is at it’s highest and the lions tour only has to contest with the olympics in the summer because it definitely doesn’t want to be competing with the FIFA World Cup.

Globally, Rugby Union has one thing that money can never buy - State of Origin - communities, not franchises!

Great summary, had to look up the Wigan v Bath games on RU-vid. Class martin offiah what a player

Some great takes in this post, well done

I hear you but NFL don’t have international American football games to play. They can relocate city if the tax payer won’t buy them a new stadium. Rugby suffers form the perception it is an old boys game which has changed where take football for example anyone Conan play now matter how poor you are. Rugby can grow and is in America with its MRL now. Japan is now pro rugby. They need to expand more in South America and mainland Europe. I would love to see Spain one day become a serious rugby nation. The main issue though is the prize money we need to have higher prize money for the winner of the champions cup than the premiership and top 14. Same with the six nations winner. They prize money should be dolled out based on table finish for 6 nations too. But I really appreciate the video you have some excellent ideas especially bringing the two codes together it sounds crazy but it’s a good kind of crazy outside the box thinking.

Rugby is just fine. The NRL is just killing it. Huge TV deal, big attendances. Fiji, Tonga. PNG and Sonia doing fine, great world Cup in the UK with record TV audiences and gates are up across the UK this season. Rugby is just doing fine. Union is struggling a bit though. The best players are bought up by France and England and English clubs are going bust. We may as well stay in the Valleys. The URC is mega lopsided. The Welsh and Italian clubs under-performing. If the new rules are put in place we could see no Italian, Scot or Cymru sides playing in Europe, so why should we bother? Common sense should be used: The English clubs buy Italian, Welsh and Scot etc. players then go bust. We lose our best players etc. and then the Saesneg say our clubs are poor. Well, we know why, don't we? Save some money then and produce your own talent!

Great video and some good points. Interesting stuff about NFL. Have to disagree with bringing the two codes back together, I’m a huge fan of both and like their differences. NFL/AFL were playing the same game with the same laws, whilst we’ve had 130 years apart. I think the cultural differences in the games and it’s audiences are just to set.

A couple of years ago I had the Idea of tempting struggling rugby league clubs over to union. Then Premiership clubs starting going bust and Superleague seems to be doing ok, so I don't think that's going to work 😂😂 A more realistic plan would be to get the 4 Welsh pro teams to leave URC and join the Premiership.

Enjoyed your commentary. Good to get the old mind thinking about something new. It reminded me a bit of many moons ago when we both lived in the US, my brother and I used to pick out NFL players that would make good rugby players. In terms of rugby tv success - equals financial success of course - France is probably the biggest national pie and England should be second. I’m not sure that it is though. I suspect League in Australia is possibly bigger, certainly in terms of penetration. I’m getting the vibe from NZ too, that League is moving up the charts there too. Not sure that the 57 Gentlemen Will Carling referred to some years ago, are the right ones to make it better. I think that most national unions fall into the same category and aim to cement the status quo. Apart from all the organisational issues, the one really big one has to do with the actual playing of the game itself, or, more specifically, the head injury plague. How many mothers are going to be turned off by the stream of concussions that are an everyday occurrence, from allowing their little boys to play that rough game? I think that needs addressing long before we try to take the next step. The most recent example I can think of is the pure carnage of the recent Glasgow v Munster game. Horrendous stuff for the mother of any young lad to see if same young lad wants to play the game. Keep up the good work. You’d never know what undercurrents might be stirred by some fresh thinking.

Out of curiosity, if you were able to bring the codes together, which aspects of each would you keep, and what would you discard?

Thanks for your insight and knowledge of rugby. You don't find that sort of content on RU-vid.

great video but dont forget the super league tried to model itself on the NFL. teams changed names and badges to be more NFL like, the coverage on sky was all stats based with a story emotive like soin to it. Super League TV deal centrally managed. Modelling the NFL worked for rugby league in Australia so maybe its because it wasn't the biggest code here. That's another issue rugby has, too many codes. Rugby needs one code. I grew up with league but my boys play union because league is dying now. 100% agree the codes need to join

Very interesting as someone who enjoys both league and union I would love for the codes to unite , as long as there is compromise a good combination of the laws , but I don't think a lot of union and league die hards would like it

Otherwise, this was a very interesting and good discussion. From the Australian perspective and with a very general appreciation of the development and growth of the local AFL in this country (as it competes with the two rugby codes and soccer) since the late 1970s, it is very clear how the local AFL people (starting with the VFL back then) were doing their best to use the American experience in growing their industry as a template. And my, hasn’t that been a successful venture! Compliments to the speaker in this video from the land where “International Rugby” now suffers from an existential crisis. I think that the core issue here can be considered to be a form of “prisoners’ dilemma”. Groups of humans will behave in ways that the students of human nature are fully familiar with. Some will see the big picture where everyone benefits while many will simply gorge themselves on self interest, ultimately to everyone’s demise. I think that “big picture” people like Bert Bell, Pete Rozelle could have had a role in seeing a way through the present dilemma in Israel-Palestine. Perhaps “Mr Eggchaser” could get a job with the UN? Oh but the self interested, internecine types wouldn’t have a bar of that. When it’s every man and tribe for themselves then everyone loses.

It drives me up the wall that people insist on comparing rugby to NFL. The NFL enjoys the same position in the US as football does everywhere else, and compared to football, the NFL is nothing to write home about on any measure. With more than 10,000,000 Americans to every 1 NFL franchise, it isn't very well supported in person either - probably because nobody can afford to, and the franchises up sticks and leave as soon as the owner gets a sniff of more money to be made elsewhere. If English top tier rugby heads more down the franchise route than it already has then I will turn my back on it and go to watch a lower league side. I have been telling my family (who I attend every home game with at our home town club) for years. I would rather drive 30 miles down the road to watch Championship Rugby than support what has been "my club" since childhood particiapting in the ringfenced British Isles franchise system CVC clearly dream of setting up. This isn't America. Look at what happened to Welsh rugby with franchising. French rugby is the complete opposite of a franchise system and it is bloody great. The RFU has made a whole raft of mistakes in the last 30 years, but you can't really overlook the fact that England has another 11 pro clubs with a half decent following & budget playing League whilst France only has one, so it isn't as simple as "we could be just like France" - not least because they get to play in municipal stadiums, which is something we simply don't have.

I am not sure comparing Rugby to NFL is really a very apples to apples comparison. One is exclusively a club game where as the other is a game where the ultimate goal is to represent your country. The, all pulling in the same direction is a good point and uniting the "clans" as it were, would be great but the demographic of the player base is very different. League, at least here in Australia is a very working class game where as Union is seen as a private school boy affair. To unite would require a huge undertaking that I think can never happen. Now on comparisons, it should really be like Association Football (Soccer if you will) where yes there are huge leagues but the ultimate goal is represent your country and win a world cup. Rugby is constantly hamstringing its club game for national teams and vice versa, where as you say, they want to protect their little slice and cant see the bigger pitcure. United deconflicted calendars should be made much like Football has done (I know its not always great) where players focus on international games during international breaks.

NRL has no need to merge with Rugby Union and nothing to gain from it. Union is slow, it looks like a mess, games are decided by referee interpretations,and they've watered down the physicality because they're hysterical about head injuries. NRL is, well administered, well promoted, has a plan and is expanding. They ve conquered Australia and have New Zealand firmly in their sights. They could easy become the premier club football comp in NZ with Super Rugby's problems and they sit on a mountain of cash to help make it happen.

In a way it makes a lot of sense. Let's face it a lot of the best coaches are allready doing it ie Farrell, Sinfield and English rugby league is having its own difficulty keeping hold of promising players. A lot of people would dislike the idea ,probably just as many that disliked the idea of the codes splitting in the first place! Something needs to be done though , I know some of the Welsh clubs have admitted they can't keep the best players cos other clubs are willing to offer them more money.

Great video. I consider myself a unicorn. I’m a Rugby League and Union loving Yank. I watched my MLR side RFCLA vs San Diego last night. I bought a season seat. I watch about 4-5 MLR games a week. I also follow Sale Sharks. I’m also going to be Rugby League referee and I do commentary for our local Rugby League comp. I’d say 100% of my M62 mates aka League can’t stand Union. Few normies know the history. It’s about class. Don’t shoot the messenger. There will never be a reunification. Never. Ever. Never. I try to get my League friends to follow Union and they’re not having any of it. I also reffed and was a part of my local Union side and the Union guys thought League was a joke. You’d have more iof a chance of the Bloods and Crips coming together.

Unfortunately Tim, as we have seen from the CVC deals there is too much short term thinking and over-optimism that non-rugby finance streams (Hotels, Casinos etc.) will prop up the rugby side of the club. As a Brummie, interested in seeing what you're meant to be doing at Bournville next Saturday, as they don't have any event listed on their website or socials.

Really interesting! Though not sure the NFL is the exact fit as a fix due it being solely a club competition, versus the duality of Rugby as a Global/International game as well as a domestic club product, with the money and main focus on the former rather than the latter. Still, you're right that WR needs to try to convince the bigger teams of the benefits of change for long term gain. No doubt someone will enlighten me as to the reasons why this can't happen, but to grow the game, World Rugby needs to take a leaf out of (horrors) Football's book and institute regional International competitions every 2nd year there is not a World Cup...e.g. a proper European Championship, Oceanic Championship, American, Asian and so on. With group qualifiers for both these competitions and the World Cup in the 18 months prior to each championship, ala football, it would allow the international teams (like Georgia, Fiji, etc.) to compete on a more regular basis with the bigger teams in their regions almost annually. While it would mean the end of the summer tours/Autumn Internationals (and Lions prob), scheduled right they don't have to interfere with either the 6Ns or the Rugby Championship keeping those traditions intact.

I could bang on about this for hours....but the immedite UK change id make would be to set up a British and Irish League and move it to the Summer (don't go against Football) viewership will skyrocket. Create controversy, rivalism, superstars, better social media. Make sure each country Union has the same rights in terms of player national training/playing times etc

Rugby is a global sport though (even though us is pretty large) so the business model is apples to oranges.. or at least far more complicated than this video can go into New ideas are not a bad thing though

100% correct, rugby is too parochial and always has been. I made the point recently, one reason France is able to corner its market so well is that their population only has one contact sport to watch - union. In England about 1/3 of the rugby heartlands like League. Not saying all leaguies should convert to union because I love both codes but it's emblematic of rugby pulling itself in opposite directions.

Another good video as always Tim.

A pretty good synopsis of the NFL. As an American who grew up on the sport, their over all competence is something other sports should be trying to emulate. The games occur from September to February, but for 30% of Americans it is a year round sport.

I think it's a good idea to say in principle the issue as I see it is that the NFL basically decided to sacrifice international gridiron football for club gridiron. Like once you leave the NFL and go to say, Canada, where the game originally may have began the CFL is vastly inferior. The ELF in Europe is further again. All American football is centralised in America even though there's interest and players from around the world now. But it gets worse, they won't play for their country. The big American sports like baseball, ice hockey, American football and basketball all have international tournaments but they're basically unheard of because club is king. Like the WBC this year for baseball was considered absolutely wild because it had a whole 2 big names from the USA. If you look at Canada in ice hockey they have a world cup too but the NHL makes sure it has its playoffs on around the same time so the best players in the world don't go. Again club over country. I don't think an NFL style solution will fix world rugby. It can definitely help England or Wales and Scotland as the Irish approach is somewhat similar to the Americans (highly centralised governance) but I worry it'll mean we either see club or country suffer for the other to succeed. If we were to just go for it then maybe the best option would be for the six nations teams and the rugby championship teams to create two large leagues with a set number of teams. Adding countries with preset numbers of clubs as time goes on. Hell you could even have regional conferences. Say in the six nations you'd have the islands conference and the continental conference. You are also bang on the money about media deals though, having collective media deals with all access and even the whole micing up stuff would be very cool to see done in rugby.