Link to runaway 8V71 Detroit video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zp99ewVvqeI.html Link to 855 Cummins ether video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cPh6NFvBCnc.html
I had a 300 Mack engine do this too. Valve broke off and beat the crap outta the piston. Then pieces of the valve moved to other cylinders and beat on them too. What a mess.
Can you set up another "Viking funeral" with a random big liter diesel, sucking in a balloon full of Tannerite? Like say having a tube plumbed to the intake. Trap-door-drop a sausage shape balloon full of tannerite into the intake of an 8v71 or turbo of a 4-stroke. Yeah, that would be great to see what happens.
As a mechanic that started out in the mid-70's, I worked for a nation-wide trucking company that, (at that time,) was 100% 6 and 8V-71s. Oil leaks? If you didn't add a gallon every time you got fuel, you started to worry something was wrong. You didn't mention them, but each side of the block had "air-box drains," which were tubing that allowed the excess oil shoved though the whole system go drip, and drip they did. A driver that idled an engine for any decent period of time wound up with two 6 inch or better circles of oil underneath, and going down the road slathered the underside of the truck all the way to the rear axles! California eventually outlawed them, which was the demise of Detroit Diesels as highway trucks. Thanks for this! A walk down memory lane. . .!!!
gac914 The old timer I worked with referred to them as “Green Leakers”. I’ve only worked on a few, but the memorable one that sticks out was a Roadway truck with a 6V-71. Like you said, it was POURING oil out the air box drains and the scale bitched at them to get it fixed. They brought it to us and we told them it was wore the hell out, but they weren’t having it. We were directed by them to install a ball valve in the drain tubes in no uncertain terms. Did as instructed, and a week later that poor bastard looked like a duck covered in crude from the Exxon Valdez oil spill. It promptly became their yard dog for moving trailers........But the sound of those damn things-- PURE SEX.
@@DieselDoc78 Yeah, and they were pretty fast on acceleration, too! The other thing I remembered after writing the first one was, it was definitely possible to run them "backwards," and doing so they would start sucking the engine oil out and run on that. How do I know?? I had it happen to me once, and the only way in those days to tell was they had mechanical tachometers and while the engine would run, the tach wouldn't. They would run backwards if you didn't give it enough throttle while on a slight incline, and it would reverse the direction. REALLY bad if you didn't catch it right away -- fortunately I realized it quickly and dumped the clutch while holding the brake to stall it!! Fun days, for sure!! (BTW, I can't believe they'd have you guys install shut-offs on the box drains -- there was a management decision by someone who didn't know what they were doing, for sure!!! :-)
gac914 Typical Roadway management. Pencil jockey that looked at numbers and knew nothing about trucks.......At this point in my life I just need my pops to teach me how to row a pair of sticks before he’s gone. That and I really need to retrofit a 4-53T into one of my pickups.
There was a way to prevent the oil problem. Airsep made units that went on them to pull the fumes out of the crankcases. We ran ours with a restricted filter so that it put the crankcase under a vacuum. Then the only place the oil could go was out the exhausts. After it was burned in the engine. Still you needed to add 2 quarts of oil every 24 hours of running. We changed the oil every 300 hours of operation.
@Harry. B. Renner. jr. We ran ours at 1800 RPM normally and not less than 1400 RPM under load in stationary use. If they ran under load at 1200 RPM, you would see unburnt fuel in the exhaust pipes. We actually saw it drip out of the plugs on the bottom of our mufflers so we restricted them to 1400 RPM or above. The overspeeds were set to trip at 1900 RPM so we did have a little fudge factor if needed but then we had to worry about prop cavitation.
so, those holes in the head and block, were actually there on purpose! Those were the holes that were used to mate two blocks and heads together when they wanted more than 8 cylinders. The 16v71. Since the 2 stroke cycle does not care about engine rotation direction, they would bolt the front of 2 blocks together, and the front block would turn backwards. They could make V6, V8, V12, V16, and V24 units to order. Many had long joined camshafts that were just turned around to match the new rotation direction. The V12 was a pair of V6's bolted together. The V16 and V24 were V8 blocks bolted together. These were the first truly Modular engines, and only died due to emissions.
There was no production 24v71, nor was there a 20v71, but there was a 16v71 which was 2 V8 blocks. The 12v71 was a true 12 cylinder block. In the 149 series, there was a 20 cylinder, and it was two V6s on either end of a V8 block
The Cleveland and Electro Motive Diesel engines are almost the exact same layout as the Detroit's. of course they dont part for part change over, but they are the same 2 stroke system. Intake ports, 4 exhaust valves, cam shaft controlled injectors. EMD has shaft driven turbos for the forced induction engines, as well as because the EMD motors have assembled blocks instead of cast. So they just build the block with more cylinders, 8, 12, 16, 20
Recalling my high school days ( Some years ago that's all I say ) I lived out in a census designated place out in Kern county. Miles away from the high school. About 16 miles in to town. Well, I was fortunate enough to ride an old crown school bus. It was a tandem axle. It had one of these 8v71. Well one day after school, we would all tell our bus driver "Home James!!!" Yeah his name was James. He was a good guy and an old diesel mechanic. Well one day after school, he was struggling to get it to start. it WOULD NOT start to save its life. I was one of the back of the bus rowdies even though I was a freshman. Well he cranked on it and cranked on it and CRANKED on it some more. Went it cranked up, it had a stuck rack...We were all on the bus. That sucker starts to wind up!.. All we heard was BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA! James calmly grabbed the CO2 extinguisher and opened the engine bay and snuffed it out till it died. I was in auto class... One of our projects was to remove the engine and check it for defects and free the rack up. Got to rebuild the engine and the city mechanics put the engine back in the bus... Good times!!!
What's cooler than a 2-stroke Detroit? The big 2-stroke locomotive engines made by GM's Electro-Motive Division, the EMD 567, 645, and 710 (that's CI displacement per cylinder, just like Detroits). The 567 was also developed in the late 1930s by the same engineering team, and is twice the bore and twice the stroke of a Detroit Series 71. EMD engines have fabricated (welded) blocks, and individual cylinders (power assemblies) can be removed and replaced fairly easily. Unlike Detroits, turbocharged EMDs do not have roots blowers, instead the turbo has a clutch and receives an assist from the geartrain when idling or at lower speeds. The clutch disengages once there is enough exhaust pressure for the turbo to start freewheeling. EMDs are all 45 degree V engines, with power outputs ranging from the 600 HP roots-blown 6-567 all the way up to the 5500 HP turbocharged 20-710. The 567 is a legend in the railroad world, as it more than anything else is what killed the steam locomotive. EMD is now owned by Caterpillar and the 710 engine is still in new production today, being used in locomotives, ships and stationary generators all over the world. Unfortunately it failed to meet the EPA's Tier IV emissions standards, so has not been used in new U.S. market locomotives built after December 2014.
General Electrics basically redesigned the EMD engines, not sure if they owned the patent or owned EMD for a while, refined the powerpack concept to make the 30k hour overhaul a lot faster. Welded liner to the head, common rail injection(or at least something very similar), new turbo, It's been a while but that's some of the things I remember from when I was over in Eerie PA taking a V250 engine class. Never really got to put any of it into practice as my boss ended the contract with GE not long after I was over there. Did a bunch of work on a few old EMD's though, marine application, those things were hellish to do bottom end bearings on due to the tiny crank case hatches and a sloppy as fuck special tool for the main bearing nuts. I remember always getting a laugh outta the manual telling you to tip the block over on its side. Replacing the spring drive for the turbo was also always a fun one, that rear timing cover is pretty unwieldy, not to mention the exhaust plumbing _never_ lining up properly. At least adjusting the valves was super quick, turn down until the adjuster touches, 1.5 rotation back and set. Adjusting the injector racks took a bit more finagling but was manageable. Anyway, ancient history by now, not even sure if any of those old barges still float or got recycled yet.
This should give you an idea of how tough a Cummins motor is. In April of 97 my mom had a heart attack while I was an OTR driver. I found out at the Kentucky Tennessee line on I 24. I told my boss let Illinois know what was going on and that I was coming in hot. My boss routinely gave around 10k a year to the local state police station for their charity's and other things they asked for donations for. I was driving an 88 IH with a mildly boosted 444 underneath the hood turning a 13 double overdrive transmission with a .5 final with 3.55 rears on 11r24.5 rubber. I literally couldn't go into 13th gear below 70 mph without lugging the motor. Well I pretty much flew across Kentucky get to Illinois and I see 2 Illinois state troopers in the median they see my truck and say driver we are your escorts to get you home faster. You can set the pace and go as fast as necessary to get home. I dropped the hammer on the go pedal and didn't lift until I got home. Motor wasn't happy with me by the end. 3 hours of 2200 run out of 2400 possible rpm and I was demanding every single pony she had. I dropped the wagon bobtIled to the yard and she was sounding like a bucket of bolts in the crankcase by the end. This was Saturday. By Monday morning they had pulled the engine apart and gave me the news; I had burned #2 completely thru and swallowed 4 intake and exhaust Valles total. Yet she got me home. She was overhauled with the right parts for massive hp. I'm talking 850 minimum under full load. Today she's still around hauling grain and other stuff for a close friend of mine. She's got over 2 million on her clock and he has no plans to retire her.
Love the explanation of the governor. "bunch of flyweights going around doing crazy S%&t" . I had a 6v71 generator runaway once, I will say you simulated a runaway perfectly.
Yep, the governor has to foul up to have it run away unless you don't change the oil like you should. You ought to see what happens when one of the internal fuel lines to the injectors breaks. It can launch the dipstick across a 25 ft wide room. And the engine just keeps on running. Took three oil changes to get the smell of the Diesel fuel out of the crankcase oil.
@@jamesanderton344 I liked ours. 14,000 hours on one before an overhaul. By the time I left, there was another with 16,000 hours on it after we did the overhaul at 12,000 hours. And it was still running fine. I set everything to the bare minimum tolerances when doing the rebuild. Our coupling between the PTO and the gearbox allowed for .060" runout. We were unhappy if we couldn't get them to .003" at the max on the dial indicator. That is how close we set things. The head to cylinder liner difference was no more than .001" over the whole head as I shimmed the liners to get them that way.
1982 to 1986 worked with a fleet of dd 6v-53, 8-71 and Cummins big cam 400's. At the end of the day the drivers knew to put a small pan under all the detroit motor's..... Your video brings back memories.
Now rebuild the ole Detroit to show just how tough they really are, a full rebuild would be proper but a new kit for that one cylinder and four new valves she’d likely fire back up..
Once he found out which cylinder had died, he could have removed the loose pieces put it back together and it would have ran just fine. I got _story time_ with an old navy or marine mechanic and he said those engines don't like to quit as they were heftily built. He said they'd run those engines to the gates of hell and if it busted a piston they'd just unbolt that rod and keep on going with one less cylinder. He said when you're in a hot zone, you did what you had to do to survive _and those old Detroit Diesels didn't give up easily!_
For a young man you know more about diesels than most who claim to be diesel mechanics. I started working on heavy equipment with my older brother before I was 12. My brother drug me along to his classes when I was 11 or 12 years old he used to tell me learn to work on diesel and heavy equipment and you will always have a decent paying job and he was right I always had a skill set to fall back on.
Great video, I had the privilege of working on a ship with a 6-71, 8V-71, and two 16V-71. They were designed to be able to take a bullet to the block and if you could keep dumping water in it would keep running.
One of my peeves is when people say that the Detroit 2 strokes are super charged. Then they rebuttal with “well my (insert small 2 stroke gas engine) doesn’t need a blower to run”, then you have to explain to them how a basic 2 stroke engine works to begin with, and why you have the oil mixed with the gas, then you have to explain the Detroit (or any large 2 stroke diesel) and how it works and by that point they just got mad because they can’t wrap their heads around it.
My background is in marine engineering. We had a lot of Detroits in all sorts of vessels. They almost ran forever, almost. You are so right about them leaking oil, that for us was a constant concern. I have spent almost 50 years working on Detroits from 6 71s up to EMD 20s. Also, yes I am a female marine engineer, also retired as chief engineer. Interesting video but not unexpected, regards, LJ
For those who found themselves on this thread and don’t know what I’m talking about ... head over to “ Zip Ties and Bias Plies “ channel. Watch his concrete truck Rez erection and cold start. I like how he mentions to Whistling Diesel what a COLD START actually is lol.
I would hate to be one of your trucks! But I do appreciate you taking the time to tear them down and letting us at least see what fails when something is abused beyond belief!
Okay. Thanks. Now that you have done a video where you did teardown and failure analysis of the 8V71 that you allowed to run away. That turns the whole thing into something educational and it changes everything. I appreciate it and thanks to you I have gotten some more good learning. Again well done.
Thank you! Idk how many people argued that fact. the Detroit with blower only is considered naturally aspirated. If it had a turbo then we’re talking forced induction or boosted stuffs
wow, nothing smells like an old 71 series either.. I have had a couple and a 92 series.. 6v92 TT and you are right about the history, lots of history there.
Love that look on your face when you quick-stepped away from that left side head removal - priceless!! Thanks for doing a teardown on that motor. I suppose looking at it as a science experiment makes it a bit more acceptable. Keep 'em comin' KT. Always enjoy watching and listening to what you are up to.
One thing that you got to give thees old 2 stroke Detroit is there get up and go is fantastic I am a volunteer in my hometown and we have a firetruck with a 2 stroke Detroit in it and it won't get over 50 however we don't need it to go much faster then that what we need it to do is get up to 50 quick and it can do that.
2 strokes respond to load better than 4 joke crap: finally cummins offers a 2 stroke with high hp to weight ratio:mart.cummins.com/imagelibrary/data/assetfiles/0058689.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3PWM1vZs8JxpuZMoJO5Y0YFoF9pV9fuGEhbyiGgxIP0r6sxzhqo5_P9oY. I got a 2 stroke v8 small block and silver 8v92 and they pick up load quick. i hope to repower my f-250 with a 2 stroke detroit so i just dump the gutless 7.3 4 joke in out up front so some kid can take it away. i have the sound of it anyways. you spend a lot on a new car or truck just get a louse 4 joke POS motor in it that compicated and every buying these ugly 4 joke outboards! Atleast rotax in skidoo and lightning are 2 strokes!
I love the way you went through step by step and told all of the idiots that they were wrong, and why they were wrong. Cool and calm can make a person feel WAY stupider than just calling them a moron. Perfect!!
Fun Video. I had a International DT466 runaway on me right after an in-frame. If you want to over fuel a Cummins, plug the return line. I remember the older mechanics saying you should keep the engine manual handy to place over the intake if you had a runaway. Or use a Co2 fire extinguisher to displace the oxygen. And the best one, keep a hammer close and start breaking off the fuel line fittings. Cheers Willy
Uh wut? The early M-113 had a Chrysler 361ci gasoline engine. That was 60 years ago so it's about as early as an M-113 can get. The 361 Mopar bigblock got replaced in the mid/late 60s with 6V53 Detroit V6 diesels although a few M-113s still served with the Mopar V8 through 1970. No turbos on M-113s or M-113A1s until the A3 version which did have a turbocharger on its 6V53 diesel. Maybe you're thinking about something else...
I use to drive a bunch of 8/71 318 detriots they leaked oil like no tommorrow but were kind of fun to drive you had to run em like a race car ,i miss dat todays engines are whimps no trills
I miss that sound. I used to work on the 6V53T in the Marines.. This brings back memories. It was only 4 yrs but man, we destroyed and repaired lot these engines.
Well the education continues - Thank you! While I mentioned before I wasn't a diesel mechanic but a mechanic I am. I used to volunteer for a railroad museum and got my hands dirty a lot on locomotive engine. I would be shown how to do a task and off I went. With that said General Motors Locomotives had two strokes in them and I thought that the "blower" was like a turbo with a diffent drive. Little did I realize that the purpose for that blower was for the two stroke air exchange. Again thank you for the education!! Love your video's.................
Very difficult to hate an engine that can rev that much and only melt a piston :o) It’s hard to believe now, but we really didn’t care about oil leaks. It was simply the way of things.
The blower off a 6V53 works very well on a big block 396, or 427. I put a blower off a 6V53 on my 427. Was a bit of a ugly farm build manifold but worked sweet. We use a forklift at work with a 4 53 detroit at work. With a boss who will not kisten to me and have a proper mechanic fix the air box leak to stop the oil blow out through the Exhaust.
the funny thing is that after all of the mistreatment its seen, that cummins could still be overhauled and rebuilt into a running, useable engine. just goes to show that those oldies really were built to last
Detroit makes some incredible engines. I used to work in the marine business and worked on 16V149’s in big yachts. They are big engine’s. I think they originally were for trains.
Considering the abject abuse the engine suffered, it suffered very little damage, no coolant, designed with intent to be a runaway. I'd say your criticism of the engine bears little. Cheers
Your right, the guy is a total fuckwitt, he say's he knows nothing about them which is an understatement then critisizes it after all its been through plus probably a million miles on it before this cretin got hold of it.
Great video We ran 8V71's & 8V71T Detroit's from 1967 to 1987 had one 8V92 natural aspirated engind in a 1975 IHC Transtar II think was rated at 365 hp. was a freak of nature. Came from the factory with turbo style pistons in it. She was a real puller of a truck for the time. Once they found out their mistake the factory wanted it back. They didn't get it back.
Them OL Scream’n Detroits sure do have a Sound of Their Own! I’m not a Big Detroit Guy, I actually like MANY Different Diesel Motors, and with The RIGHT Tuning, Turbo, Exhaust Manifold, & Exhaust they ALL can Run GOOD and be GREAT Motors! International DT466, Cat 3116, Cummins ISC 8.3L, Cat 3126, Cummins L10/M11/ISM, Detroit S60 11.1L Non EGR, Cat C-12, Detroit S60 12.7L Non EGR, Detroit S60 14.0L Non EGR, Cummins N14 525 RedTop, Cat 3406E, Cat C-15, Cummins Signature 600 Non EGR, Cat C-16, ALL of these are NON EGR Motors. ALL are GREAT Motors that all have their Place in Different Applications, All where Produced during the MOST Fuel Efficient and Produced The LEAST Amount of Emissions Period of Diesel Motors, which was from 1995-2003. That was The HOLY GRAIL of Electronic Diesel Motor History. That’s why these Motors are so Sought After, that’s why they Sold a RECORD Amount of Gliders from 2008-2020. Now I do have my Favorite Period of Mechanical Diesel Motors as well. But in all Honesty and Motor after 2008 with EGR/DPF’s (which can be taken care of) I’m NOT a Fan Of, but I Especially Don’t like Motors after 2011 when DEF came out. But I Like Motors that are 2007 and Older, but 2003 and Older is My Favorite. I Consider myself a CAT Guy, but Each Motor had a Specific Application that they Excelled In on that List of Motors, even International DT466’s, Detroit S60 11.1 & 12.7L/14.0L’s, and Cummins M11/ISM & N14’s, but I LOVE the Torque & Sound of Cat Motors!
@@jdlawless_fuel1416 been there done that! This kind of project started me into a career that lasted 42 years. Took an old engine got it running and built a pickup around it, was my daily driver in school. When I started working, got enough money together to rebuild it.
R Fortier after that chinese EMP strike and everyone’s vehicles are fkd i’ll be laughing and headed towards the hills with my 671 detroit diesel crown bus..
Quirin M. I do have a new ford ranger but i also have a 1970 f100 with a mercedes turbo diesel engine all mechanical engine. This thing runs on whatever i dump in the tank.. diesel, kerosene, jet 1-A, motor oil, waste oil, food grade oils, hydraulic fluids, transmission fluids, brake fluid, bbq lighter fluid... I’ve tried it all lol ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FZtC8sWapGY.html
Have you tried 93 octane unleaded with castor oil 2 stroke in it. I not only filled a 6-71 with quicksilver TCW3 syntheic 2 stroke oil. i dumped in some old gas/oil outboord mix in to fuel tank ofor this winch motor. it stared easier, ran better and oil stayed cleaner! there was a guy who bult a 2 stroke out of a 5 cylinder mercedes diesel om617 and ran it on regular gas! It was a poppet valved 2 stroke and is that what you did on yours?
Before the tear down starts I can tell you exactly what happened, the rack got stuck & got set on full/run away mode. It’s a travesty you let the engine go, it could’ve had another 40yrs left in it.
Detroit’s are one of the most simple yet complicated engine there simple as far as the parts that are there but between mating the blocks and rotation it’s easy to screw up and get the wrong oil pump and then the fine and course gears between the years
The opening shots of the Detroit reminded me of all the Detroit I seen and serviced for the offshore oil and gas industry. I believe detroit is the most popular motor used offshore. Theres always a detroit screaming somewhere when you land on a rig.
I know you might not like Um but I love my old double D’s. In our old MCI 9’s on a nice cold winter day you can cover the yard with blue smoke when you open that throttle! Oh the good ole days.
Yes, I agree. Judging from the number of likes for this video, there are plenty of people that know as little as he knows about engines. I just unsubscribed. Have a great day!
Stuck injector runaways are more common with detroit's. Though I do agree with your statement. But since most of them don't have turbos, you'd have to greatly overfill the crankcase oil for it to run away
@@davidstjames_ Lighten up. If you watch any of his videos about rebuilding CAT engines, you can see from his attention to detail that he knows them very well.
Pretty impressive the materials held up except really 1 cylinder fail. That thing was cooooking and each piston looks fair for what they went through. Thx from Australia mate!
For God's sake. If you don't know the difference between a naturally aspirated Detroit and a turboed one, just remain silent, watch the video(s) and learn something.
I really HATE how people call non-turboed 2-stroke Diesels "naturally aspirated". They really aren't. They can't draw air in by themselves without some form of forced induction.
@@conner5611 But I mean, if that were the case, wouldn't turbocharging a 2 stroke Diesel with a positive displacement blower also have no effect on horsepower?
You cant argue that they were incredibly well built. All the major diesel engines makers have great engines ( Cat, Cummins, Detroit, Mack) but Detroit was definitely the king of 2 strokes and they could just about run forever.
I just love the old Detroits the way they were designed was you could bolt the engines together to double, triple anything you wanted to thats why they are like that . And like the old saying goes if its not leaking oil theres none in it lol
Have you ever heard the OMC v8 small block 2 strokes, they sound good to they can make insane power per CID and dont need an external blower to run it. Monte racing mounted an 8v71 blower to make well over 850 hp out of 244 CID!
no 4 joke would, 2 strokes are tougher and designed that way. I had a my ccw 440 snowmobile run away and it just broke some rings, It was a jdx8 snowmobile. i rebuilt it and it ran fine. How would this chevy 2 stroke sound :www.4btswaps.com/attachments/2cyclesbc-jpg.6839/
After seeing the whole video, the conclusion should be that the Detroit engine is rebuildable. Such fantastic engines. If you ever part that White semi, I would love to have the steering wheel off of it.
Glad to see you're putting up new videos. I enjoy watching anyone work who knows what the f they're doing, and you definitely fall into that category. And the crazy bull is fun too. Keep them coming! I won't be unsubscribing anytime soon
My god I’m spitting feathers,do you know now hard it is to get white roadcomander parts,I’m renovating a cab over,parts so difficult,and in,the USA take a jcb to um,shit,I spat my tea out.
@@jdlawless_fuel1416 even the 3 cylinder version is almost as heavy as a 6bt Cummins. The 6v53 is somewhere around 1700 lbs. I'm sure you could make a 1 ton pickup handle that fine, but it's never really going to be good at anything other than sounding cool.
I worked at plant 2 around 1980 to 1987 at, what was then, Detroit Diesel Allison's in Speedway Indiana were we made the 71s, the 92s, and the 149 pistons. When I worked over at plant 3 I worked close to the blower line. That was a long time ago.
