Re-watched this fight so many times I ended up noticing how Raven is the one that cuts the boulder in half, made me remember when Tai said "Both you and your mother act like the easiest way to tackle an obstacle is through it."
Cosmic Mind you understand that when she was at beacon she was not the fall maiden right? She killed the fall maiden because she thought that the maiden was not cut out for this world she was bound to die. So she killed her.
I think it would be more interesting if she did go all out because it would kind of be weird to me if she was trained to use her skills to fight and held back when there are probably other students like ruby and yang who also have been fighting their whole lives. Idk it just seems like it would make more sense to me. It would also be really cool to me if raven started "having too much fun" in her mind during things like the vytal tournament and was constantly telling herself to remember why she went to beacon and was telling herself to not lose sight of her goal.
Bronzeolini Is not funny OMG yes!! I watched Suicide Squad and Harley Quinn managed to fight and pull off all those crazy stunts in heels. Weiss, Blake, Pyrrha, Neo, Cinder and Raven can all fight in heels and I respect their skills greatly 😂
Raven: "If you were stronger or more clever, you'd remember to watch your back!" Cinder, seconds later: *turns her back to the literal Spring Maiden* Raven, already behind Cinder: "What did I JUST say?"
It’s implied she does when Raven first reveals her Maiden powers. Cinder comments how “the Spring Maiden must’ve trusted you a great deal....I bet that was a mistake”
I love how little Raven actually RELIED on her Maiden Powers. Yes, she definitely used them, but more to supplement her skills, rather than just overpower Cinder.
The thing I liked most about this fight is that usually in anime and cartoons they have the main character finish off the season. But RWBY chose to have a character who was pretty minor to fight Cinder and finish off the season. The main characters don't ALWAYS have to be the ones to be the big shots
Except you should still occupy your main characters with something to do. And in season 5, the main characters themselves didn't get to do anything important at all.
That’d be true if team rwby did a single important thing for all 7 volumes lol. Every time tensions actually build the adults or side characters finish the climax for them.
@@wilburforce8046 That's not entirely true. Even if the show does have a weird tendency to have someone other than the protagonists face off against Cinder in the last episodes of odd seasons, RWBY usually have battles of their own in the second-to-last episode of a season (Atlesian Paladins, Adam and Torchwick in V3, Ace Ops in V7, even the Haven battle sort of fits into this mold, even if it was executed particularly poorly)
RT were brilliant in demonstrating that they were equal in sheer quantity of power but Raven having dominated in the finer aspects of battling. First thing to see is how Cinder starts off with one sword. She was cocky as usual and forgot how Aura works due to her egomania. This resulted in her Grimm arm being struck. She is stubborn and continues on and upon realising that it's not enough, she starts dual wielding to gain an advantage but that ain't working. Around 1:05, you can see Raven shatters Cinder's swords with what seems to be Ice Dust Blades as her blade turned from green to blue. This went on and you can see Cinder being more and more agitated when they go full out maiden powers with their huge swords. Their movements are total opposites. Cinder being savage and mad with Raven being calm and collected. When their colossal blades shattered from the impact, you can see Raven immediately checking her surroundings, left right up down. She is struck due to the debris having blocked her sight. This allowed Cinder to pin her but even that was in vain. Once again you see the difference in skill as Cinder didn't check her surroundings. She was completely surprised by the rock coming down on her while Raven is hanging there grinning. We see the next difference in raw power then. Raven literally jumps up there with ease and stares down at Cinder with utmost confidence while Cinder can only follow after by boosting herself with her powers. I note that Raven had plenty of time to stand up there before Cinder even reached her. Then we go to the battle amidst the falling rocks and if you look right, you can see Raven is totally fixated on her while Cinder is keeping her eyes away to get away. Here on, every move Raven made was calculated to follow her perfectly with debris falling left and right, obstructing vision yet still sticking close to her. We even see Raven landing a drop kick by getting her. From here on out, I point to Cinder showing more and more freakout expressions. And you can literally see the disbelief in her eyes as Raven slides past her with the ice having destroyed her swords again causing Cinder to run cause she had no time to make new ones and getting another kick in. Then comes the most important part. People dont realixe that Raven fooled her AGAIN. When Raven told Cinder to watch her back, she was pinned herself Either getting shot by Vernal or getting struck by Raven, there was no way out of that. And Raven made her words come true as Cinder was occupied due to Vernal, she got a free hit in as Cinder turned her back to her. Raven is in a totally different league. That was experience, that was observation, that was cunning and raw battle power.
@@lunakuna8188 Raven used her powers but most of her skill was fighting rather than using them. She easily overpowers Cinder in swordsmanship and most characters do tbh. Neo whooped Cinder until she whipped out her powers
Except Cinder wasn't just using the Maiden powers; she's also used Scorching Caress and the Shadow Arm to intimidate those around her in order to keep in line and have know their place.
@DPS1194 Sure, but we rarely ever see her fight without the maiden powers. She's a decent warrior on her own, but she's really out of her league at the level she's at. Tyrian, Hazel, or Qrow are just legitimately better fighters than she is, to the point where even as a half-Maiden and with Mercury and Emerald backing her up she still had no choice but to flee the moment Qrow arrived, but she has the Maiden power to compensate for her relative inexperience. The Grimm Arm also really isn't HER strength, it's something she got given by her master. You can't discount it, sure, but it doesn't really reflect on Cinder so much as it does Salem. She's a B+ warrior that's paying to win against everyone else.
Raven definitely had to spend a lot of power here. It wasn't easy, but she made sure it LOOKED like it was. Pissing off Cinder is one of the ways to beat her.
Cinder has a habit of doing the impossible to accomplish the unthinkable, and she is the person who will break before she cracks. I don't think she's dead until we find a body.
I believe everyone in this Comment Chain has stated Everything i Wanted to say But i still want to Add that Cinder aint dead yet. I am Not believing it for One Second. If someone finishes her off it will likely be Ruby (or Jaune).
I kinda wish she was dead, although she probably isn’t, Cinder used to be pretty cool villain, but now she’s just annoying. I think it’d be better if she stayed “dead”.
Notice how, at some points, Raven moves to stay on Cinder's left-hand side -- the side on which she is blind in one eye and has a vulnerable Grimm arm that can't be protected by Aura. Notably at 2:37 when she slides past on ice to attack from her left flank. Raven is very savvy.
Setokaiva Oh my god, you are smart! I'm sorry but this is the same as Qrow and Winter, they're looking too much for this because potaeto. Whether or not her blind side is stupid, she did not stay by his side, moved behind her, in the end it did not matter as Cinder blocked his attacks. And I think a Maiden can easily turn around to see better as Cinder did, cof cof """which was very clever of her as she also created the sequence of mega swords, so smart""""" Cof.
@@kaliko5245 My english is not really good but is not so hard to understand, even with the context is enough. Raven and Cinder are the same in this fight but people like to overrated things.
@@shiro7220 yeah but Cinder was being completely angry, irrational and was just flat out lashing out. Raven stays calm and collected. Also I still don't understand what you said previously...
I admit that they both make amazing maidens and while I believe that while Cinder is a fantastic fighter, Raven is more the warrior. Cinder only ever trained to become the ultimate maiden but Raven was already an incredible fighter before she became a Maiden and therefore had more experience honing her skills.
Cynder also has a self-imposed disadvantage because it is known that Cinder used to carry real weapons but stopped in favor of her far, far more fragile glass weapons that tho strong when fighting someone whose style requires smooth motions and energy retention as soon as they need to be used in against a brute force opponent or another sword user with skill (John is not a skilled fighter he is very much a support person) they are not strong enough to hold up leaving her needing to make more and more of her weapons requiring her to use not only energy but aura as seen in the show and the books meaning even tho she has a sizeable aura pool to call on she burns through it faster then if she used normal weapons, this added on top of the points you bring up leads to Cynder never really having a real chance at winning only being a pain in Ravens back side
Raven’s sword is named Omen. The companion book states that Raven’s fighting style is typically one slash one kill but for the maiden fight, Raven had to approach things differently. So vs Cinder was Ravens first fight of this magnitude.
Even without Vernal's distraction, I believe Cinder was close to defeat. Raven was ready to go another round and Cinder was on her last legs. I think what really destroyed Cinder was her arrogance. She underestimated Raven, believed pure strength was the way to win, and her Grimm arm left her on the defensive, since aura couldn't protect it. I think this is the end of her. She took a powerful blow with no aura left, was frozen, and left to drop in a bottomless pit. They'd have to pull one hell of a trick to bring her back.
Their aura flickered not depleted. And ravens aura was broken too, get your facts straight. Btw, if that large rock fell on raven she would have lost too. Cinder had much more aura than raven
Besides, cinder only had her maiden powers for about 2-3 years where as raven had hers for *much* longer and the battle was still balaced. Imagine if cinder had her powers for as long as raven
Saige Gromczak And your argument is moot, considering we're not arguing hypotheticals. If anything, you're proving my point. Cinder thought she could win by raw strength alone. Other than her Grimm arm, she never landed a hit on Raven as well. Raven was stronger and smarter. I know her Aura was depleted as well, except she was still standing and ready for round two. Cinder honestly didn't have a chance.
The choreography and the music in just the last 50 seconds of action make this the best fight scene than what i've seen in most anime. Seriously, this shit is amazing, probably one of top 10 my favorite spectacle fights in any show. That heavy metal music is sick af too, really sets the mood.
@@mi12no Aura. Raven and Cinder had been beating on each other for quite some time now, chipping away at each other's Aura, so that the impact of the rocks landing finally destroyed the last of it. Vernal had been lying there, barely conscious, but still lucid, and was able to use her nearly full Aura levels to survive the falling rocks.
It makes sense for cinder to be acting with that amount of savagery. I recall her saying she had and emptiness in her and it hungered. That could be her only having half of Fall's power at the time or it could be a character trait shes always had. If this is true then fighting someone like raven with that kind of power would feed that hunger.
...one wields a giant blade of flame while one of her hands is replaced with a monstrous one and the other fights with an icy similarly giant blade while having a very gray morality and complicated family issues... is this Cinder vs Raven or Nightmare vs Siegfried?
I don't like to match up series but now that I think about I can actually see the accidental reference. Granted I know very little of Soul Caliber but based on what I heard, I definitely get it.
God damn - the energy like playing a fighting video game, the music, two bad ass female characters with awesome weapons - this is going back to the roots of RWBYs action.
The Flying Lion To bad they keep on using some shitty animating/film techniques. We don’t need a slow down and freeze frame before half of the actions.
If Cinder dies the Fall Maiden's power may go to someone under Salem's command. The only other female we know of would be Emerald. I doubt it'd be Salem since she herself seems to be Grimm. Fall could possibly go to Raven since she saw her last before she was frozen. A lot of possibilities that hopefully will be explained in 6 months ;-;
I seriously loved this fight for several reasons. First, it was the first time we've seen Cinder tangle with someone who can be considered her equal, as well as proved how much she overrelies on her power to defeat her foes rather than skill unrelating to her maiden power. Secondly, we finally get to see another Maiden's fighting style, this of course being Raven and her combined use of her swordswomanship and Spring Maiden power. Thirdly, the choreography and animation were actually pretty damn good compared to almost literally everything in Volume 4 and 5, so that was a breath of fresh air. And fourthly, CINDER GOT FUCKING OWNED. Yeah, Ruby took her eye and essentially shitstomped her with her Silver-Eyes power, but that was unintentional and she wasn't even aware of it until she and Cinder met once again, and didn't have the same hype or buildup like this did.
Cynder also has a self-imposed disadvantage because it is known that Cinder used to carry real weapons but stopped in favor of her far, far more fragile glass weapons that tho strong when fighting someone whose style requires smooth motions and energy retention and are good for her old style of spy and assassin as soon as they need to be used in against a brute force opponent or another sword user with skill (John is not a skilled fighter he is very much a support person) they are not strong enough to hold up leaving her needing to make more and more of her weapons requiring her to use not only energy but aura as seen in the show and the books meaning even tho she has a sizeable aura pool (larger then most) to call on she burns through it faster then if she used normal weapons
Deity Saturn Do you happen to remember in V4 when Tyrian had two five minute fights spread across two episodes. So....let’s not play pretend this fight was average. Made excellent by the fact that the next best fight was just as bad as the Vytal festival fights.
Spider-Man Sixty-nine They literally used their maiden powers to hover and create the maiden ball then sword....remember Qrow (who was holding back BTW) vs Winter replicating these feats in V3.
It's clear that in Volume 8 Cinder learned a lot from Raven tactically speaking. Heck, her finishing blow on Penny somewhat resembles the tactic Raven used to defeat Cinder. A misdirect was used to provide an opening for the final blow.
*Pyrhha loses to Cinder* *Jaune loses to Cinder* *Even ozpin lost his previous body fighting Cinder* *Raven Branwen.....Beats Cinder!!!!* *Penny... Beats Cinder once, and Loses to Cinder eventually* *Winter... wants to beat the living hell out of Cinder after what she's done!*
@@CrabOnABeach dude what are you talking about. She fought just as well against her and she wasn't even a maiden. Pyrrha clearly held her own against her till she lost her weapon and the wyvern distracted her. You can't say Pyrrha of all people didn't hold her own well.
Moral of the story; Cinder should have died after this. Not only did she fall hundreds, if not thousands of feet without much aura left to cushion the impact of the fall, but also didn’t shatter when she hit the ground while frozen. It really pissed me off when volume 6 rolls around and suddenly she’s still alive. There could have been some very good developments if Cinder stayed dead, like Salem replacing her with the taken over silvered eyed warrior from volume 8 or Emerald wondering if what they are still doing is really worth it at this point.
Jessica Nigri, the voice actress for Cinder, said a week ago that she likes where Cinder is going as a character, which was worded in a way that suggested that we haven't seen the last of Cinder.
Cinder actually dropped the whole Ruby nonsense in the last 4 episodes. The stuff you're talking about started in V4, where RT started to reduce her entire character to "I hate Ruby" and nothing more. Cinder spent V4, and the 2nd episode of V5 acting remarkably out of character, despite having recovered in the latter case. She insists they use force instead of acting cautiously and cleverly, which is the exact opposite of her modus operandi established back in V2, how “it’s not about overpowering the enemy”. This can be blamed on M&K being unsure of how exactly to write Cinder when she’s in a power dynamic with someone ranked above her. They seem to have learned their lesson as this sort of OOC behavior wasn’t seen from her during any subsequent episodes, though that may just be because Cinder is alongside equals and subordinates in all of those.
wish we could watch this kind of fights again with the rest of the characters. The stories and drama is fine, but battles like this, is what make the serie stronger .
Zachary Dandridge Not necessarily. While the fights take longer to produce than normal movement, this isn't hand drawn animation that takes a stupidly long amount of time to create. With this you can have multiple people working on the same fight and smoothing it out. The choreography quality has dropped since the death of Monty, so many fights were skipped or cut short.
Monty (the creator of the show) once said "I can animate fight scenes in my sleep so we decided to focus on the characters this time around" the creator valued the story more than the fights (and he was the one animating them).
Kixxxuu the lofi ghost Just because the creator preferred one aspect of the show more, doesn't mean it's the shows selling point. It began as an action show. The fans are here FOR an action show. I get the story has to advance but come on, there was barely any action in a show that got people hooked BECAUSE of action. What Monty preferred was irrelevant. He gave a summary for each season but that's it. the details weren't planned. the result is an average anime story, and average fight scenes for an action show.
Raven outclassed Cinder in everywhere. Raven way stronger, smarter, powerful, badass. Poor cinder deserve to die. Edit: Thanks for like guys! ♥.♥ Edit 2= Thank you very much, for using precious time in something make sense 😉👍
noah busch How is she more experienced and or more skilled. We have no indication that Cinder hasnt been doing stuff like this her whole life too and I wouldnt be surprised if she has. She was able to beat Ozpins old reincarnate and Pyrrha after. I agree Raven is stronger but not WAY stronger or Raven wouldnt have needed Vernal as a distraction to finish her.
Niecy Sanders and for Penny and for Amber and for Ozpin's previous body and for Weiss and for Vernal and for the destruction of Vale and for Yang's arm, and for Blake's wound (it was her plan after all)
Cinder didn't destroy Vale, she destroyed Beacon. Vale got hit with some collateral but it wasn't the target and wasn't destroyed. Also, while Cinder is not dead, the wikia is not a primary source and shouldn't be used as an argument.
Before Maiden Powers it would be likely that Sam would kill Raven easily, though have more of a fight than some fuckboi like Adam. But with Maiden Powers it'd probably feel more like fighting Armstrong wielding a replica of his Murasama with different elemental blades.
My favorite aspect of the fight was seeing dust used in a completely new way by Raven, and just the aspect of her using such an unpredictable fighting style by incorporating dust as she does is so cool.
ok my one complaint: at 2:54 Cinder's Aura breaks down. The issue is that the aura animation covers her Grim arm as well, yet at the beginning of the fight they established that the Grim arm didn't have an aura. Aside from that little detail, this was delightful.
This is the true power of a maiden... And its still heavily implied they were holding back cause I imagine had they gone all out? That entire vault would have caved in
Looking back, Raven was the only Maiden or the only character in that case, able to give Cinder a run for her money. The two former and current Winter Maidens: Penny & Winter, were able to hold her back at most. They couldn't even defeat Cinder even with backups.😂
@@8elementallords Volume 7 hadn't been released at the time of writing this comment, but I agree. RWBY vs. Ace Ops is great. Volumes 6 and 7 had some pretty good fights in general. Not quite as good as Volumes 1-3 (on average), but a definite upgrade from the previous two volumes.
@@rustyspottedcat516 Yeah, I figured going in (I've seen bits and pieces from later volumes, but only at the start of Volume 3...which is going to be, uh, fun...I know what's coming, and I'm absolutely *not* ready on any level) that there'd be multiple rough patches with production aspect of the show after Volume 3 (which is the last of the footage Monty worked on IIRC), especially the fights...Monty just had a magic touch with animating a fight, whoever came after him would have some *very* big shoes to try and fill. It took them some time to figure out, glad Rooster Teeth were able to figure things out, even if they'll never be on the same level that Monty could pull off and give it whatever touch he had that made them all special.
2:54 no that is not their aura going down it's their aura flickering. For those who didn't see rwby rewind episode 13 I think it was Kerry who said that they're trying to make it more obvious when some ones aura flickers and goes down. To me I've noticed a wind down sound when someone's aura goes down. That didn't happen here. Their aura was still up
this scene just made me realize something and it made me a bit emotional. Eventually when Raven dies, she will have to pass on the power to someone in her final thoughts...and i really hope that person is Yang.
We are now going to be on Volume 9 and this still is my FAVORITE fight scene in the whole series. I love it. Raven was amazing in this scene and I loved the maiden powers being used between the two. I don't understand how Cinder lived through that fall. But based on Volume 8, if Cinder can live from a fall like that so will RWBY, Jaune, and Neo. I just don't understand how she didn't die... Maybe freezing her ended up protecting her ??? I just want Cinder to die already. I used to like her character, but now she is just annoying and power hungry. The writers killed her character development... Also, the fight scenes from Volume 8 just haven't been that good. I wish I could have seen Winter and Cinder fight longer. But Penny and Cinder fight scene was just sad. Rooster Teeth, please give me another epic battle between maidens.
During the fight Cinder fully relies on her Maiden powers, while Raven only occasionally enhances her abilities. Also at around the end, just before Vernal makes a distraction Raven was just casually standing there, while Cinder could barely stand up. I think it's pretty certain that Raven outclassed Cinder by a mile. Vernal simply made the inevitable happen faster.
@@rasmusmalmberg6468 Dude, wtf. When Cinder was fully using maiden powers? Can people learn what Cinder does? Because this is so silly, just like Winter vs Qrow. First of all, tell me when Cinder was only using maiden powers and Raven was not? Tell me now. xD Because what Cinder does is something call *DUST* and his clotes are dust. Yes she use part of the maiden powers. Just like Raven. (For something they fight in the air) And one important thing. When a Maiden use his powers, his eyes are on fire. *Like Raven and Cinder have all the time* And Raven is not only using his ability and powers but she use dust to (His sword). Another thing. Raven and Cinder, both have the same hits, don't be like "Raven was never touch, she kick Cinder ass". Because in the first seconds Raven got 3 or 2 hits from Cinder (Cinder lauch Raven in the ground) and etc. Soooo no, both put a fight. And what you say of "Cinder was on the ground" Yes, she was but what else? both are tired. The stamina of what all are talking it's silly. Both are down, both are tired. Just listen the voice actors. The MVP was and will be forever. Vernal. And yeah, sorry, not the best english.
@@shiro7220 You're right on the Maiden powers, but I still stand by the other stuff I said. I thought that she made the swords with her glass semblance tho? Your english is great so you don't need to worry about that. Also sorry about being so arrogant.Thanks for your arguments!
I have to say this up front-I actually quite like Cinder as a character. She's always been an extremely interesting case study to me of how warped and twisted megalomania can make a person, and I felt that she did a great job as a villain. That being said, bringing Cinder back to life would, in my opinion, be one of the worst things that could happen to her character arc. Her prime motivator is, obviously, power. In giving herself a Grimm arm, she sacrifices part of her own humanity to become "better." In her eyes, the only way to get more of it is to take power, figuratively or literally, from someone else and add it to her own, with the insane hopes of eventually becoming all-powerful. This is the reason why she hates Ruby so much-Ruby, a person who Cinder perceives as weaker than herself, somehow overpowered her. Now, she can't help but try to re-establish her dominance, which she thinks she can only do by killing Ruby. I think this ending of Cinder's life is the perfect way to close the curtains on her character. She's finally faced with another opponent who has power for the taking; as we see in the fight scene, she tries to take Raven's maiden powers. But now, for the first time in the show, she's finally been outmatched. Her power failed her. In those last few moments while she falls (haha I'm funny), you can almost see her worldview crumbling to pieces. She finally realizes that even the incredible power that she's attained over the show can be beaten and knew that her moral code of "Attain all power" was false. And it's then that she finally pays the price of her mistakes. And bringing her back as a main villain, making her the same way she always was, would completely defeat Cinder's character arc. Now, I'm willing to be wrong. As others have said, it's definitely possible for her to have survived. It's also practically a given that we'll get more background on her as we learn more about Emerald and why she's oddly devoted to Cinder. But if CRWBY decides to bring her back in any form, they'd better have a good reason for doing so. *Tldr* Cinder definitely could be alive. But, unless they crucially develop her character, her presence in the show would feel... Wrong. (Sorry for the novel) (And I would really appreciate it if this comment thread-if there ever is one-was relatively free of salt? I know it's not really in the fandom's nature, but we can at least try to be civil)
