Not always. No less a player than Vinnie Colaiuta had to completely revamp his playing after his time with Frank to ascend to the highest level of professional drummers. The problem being that since FZ pushed his band to their limits and sometimes beyond, his musicians got a reputation for overplaying. Whereas being a professional sideman requires (usually) that you have no identifiable style of your own, and are able to completely disappear into the expected, appropriate, and tasteful. A few of the absolute top players (Hal Blaine, Bernard Purdie, Steve Gadd) are actually identifiable. But most aren't, and even those guys can disappear if it's required.
@@Baribrotzer That's hogwash,anybody whos anybody in the music business knew damn well every musician Frank used wasnt " over playing " ,they knew every musician was playing their part in the EXACT phrasing FZ wrote for them,with the exception of 1 song Aproximate Frank didnt allow his band to change anything . The 1 thing you did say that was on point was needing to relearn their instrument after playing with Zappa ,they all had to work so hard to play Franks trademark superimposed odd rythms over time that it changed the way they played ,most needed to take a few months just listening to other more traditional music after leaving the band before they got their groove back ,ive heard atleast 5 ex Zappa band members make that claim in interviews .
Michael Ledford the part about absolute phrasing is definitely true for all of the studio recording, but as Frank, Dweezil, and many of the Mothers have said in interviews, virtually every number they played live on tour had general places for improvisation, and those “places” could change on any given night. Ruth Underwood famously said in an interview that you couldn’t take your eyes off Frank because he was literally conducting the band the entire time, even when it didn’t look like it, and if you didn’t watch him like a hawk, you’d very likely fall behind. Some of his arm movements were classical conductors’ moves, but so much of the music was such a departure from ALL other music that he sometimes had to use anything between one finger, and his entire body. In time, the band members learned what he wanted them to do when he was shredding ten metric tons of notes on his guitar, and would blink twice, or wink once, or go cross-eyed, or wiggle his fingers pointing up at the ceiling vs down at the floor. Frank would often tell the band just before going on that they would be playing “from the 36th measure to the 94th measure of (insert song title here) with a Reggae beat, and at half tempo, then modulate the key down two whole steps and finish in a military march.” Then the next night, change those same measures (or totally different ones,) and take it to a Rhumba beat. I submit that the reason so many ex-Mothers needed to stop and reload their approach to their instrument in order to play with anybody else is because of Frank’s incredibly varied, unorthodox styles, which often changed every night on the road. Most of the time even HE didn’t know what he was going to have them do, but as he said, his approach allowed him to keep a band that had only learned and rehearsed some 45 - 65 pieces of music, from becoming bored from playing the same thing, over and over, night after night. But all of that means you are eminently correct in that they didn’t really “overplay” their instruments, they just played what they were led to play. Just my opinion, but when Jazz got popular, it was the most difficult genre to play, and it just continued to branch out into even more difficult styles, most notably, Avant-garde. Buddy Rich wouldn’t even talk to anybody about any other because as far as he was concerned, nobody in any other genre had the chops to play Jazz. To me, Frank Zappa’s music is the next step past that, and not because classically trained musicians can sight read blazing fast passages with no “feeling” at all, but can jam (improvise) in those reserved spaces, never playing the same thing twice. THAT is the kind of music and musicianship that Frank Zappa gave to the world, and if somebody has surpassed it, I’d love to know who it is.
What I’m amazed at is that Dweezil not only pays homage to my hero, his father, he has succeeded in elevating much of his music. Can’t tell you how I respect that. Every drummer that passed through Zappa’s camp especially starting with AInsley is a monster.
Ryan is a BEAST!!! I was lucky enough to meet and chat w him after a show in New Haven and he was super down to earth, and absolutely crushes these songs!
When your list includes Terry Bozzio who makes up his own rudiments for fun, Aynsley Dunbar who was a monster with Zappa, Chester Thompson who played with Genesis and Vinnie C who just oozes so much natural talent it’s criminal how good he is. You know you’ve got a strong list.
Thanks Ryan, keep 'em coming!! I'm glad you pointed out Ralph Humphrey, I'm afraid folks may not have noticed what an accomplishment that album was. I still haven't heard anyone play like he did. And to those of you who haven't caught Ryan on this gig, get yerself to the next show! He belongs in the coveted Zappa drummer pantheon.
For me Ralph was the best Zappa drummer... The most complete, he had creativity, tone, skills and individual sound. The others are also great too, but the best sounding music was IMO with Ralph at the drums.
Ryan is a mf’ing machine! Seen him many times with dweez and every time he blows me away. Saw them play last night doing the roxpostrophe tour and the amount of material they stuffed in one show was crazy!
hey ryan, i'm pretty sure you were drumming for the roxy and elsewhere anniversary show at the roxy about 5 years ago. you absolutely blew me away that night. as usual the whole band was amazing but your playing just obviously had so much knowledge of history in it, it was a joy to witness.
THIS is amazing,..to see that the works have made it thru all the eras to the dawning of this newer time in technology, all that time and all of the talents...so you can even see it kids, to be able to see `n hear the details of what it takes. Barring an EMP or planetary catastrophic event..... THIS being preserved in an accessible way,... will avail itself for the generations yet to come. THIS younger folk,...is real music. THIS IS WORTHY AND IMPORTANT,.... Ryan Brown, Thank You, for THIS and for keeping the music of FZ alive with the right kind of understandings..... Looking forward to seeing you and Dweezil at one or two of the Autumn shows in NY/NJ.
Saw Zappa plays Zappa about 10 yrs ago in Mississauga for the first time and in Toronto Canada the second time. Totalyl blown away from the get go. Ryan Brown was out of his mind. The very first song he was just an animal, I noticed Dweezil even looked back at Ryan and smiled. My jaw hit the floor. He wore a Rash t-shirt, which I thought was classy, being in Toronto and such. Great , great drummer.
Seriously. Could anyone who gave this thumbs down please explain why. I’m not going to comment back or criticize. I just want to know what I might be over looking because I gave it a thumbs up. I respect other people’s opinions just wonder the reasons people differ in views
I dedicated one song to Frank in my Tuba solo project. Its in 11/8 just like Outside Now. I named it "Thank you Frank". Music is the best and greetings from Vienna!
Thank you so much Ryan! I met you in Cambridge, UK at the Zappa plays Zappa Roxy and elsewhere show. Great to hear you doing this and loving the breakdowns. ¡Mucho respecto hombre!
Excellent vid Ryan. Boy of boy Frank's drummers were / are top class. As were all of his musicians. And Dweezil has definitely continued this proud tradition. Arf arf arf!
Drummers of Frank Zappa - Best of the best including a few of my faves Vinnie C, Terry, Aynsley and Chad and also a fan of his little brother Brooks who blew my mind when I saw him live. My favourite Frank album - Joe's Garage. Nicely played.
SpookyBaba Definitely but just listing the ones I am more familiar with but Vinnie C talk about breadth of style as he even played on the Megadeth album The system has failed.
SpookyBaba I don't really have a number 1 anymore as many could rightfully fill that slot Weckl, Gadd, Bozzio but Vinnie C is amazing so of course he would be in there. Another drummer think is amazing but doesn't really go for crazy fills is Stewart Copeland. Too many great drummers and I say great as all the above a great but something about the Gadd style I really like and still think fifty ways is one of the great all time drumming patterns for any song. My personal favourite is none of these and someone with much less technical ability but great feel and it is a cliche for a reason, John Bonham but you can't compare a great rock drummer like Bonham to great technicians like Gadd, Weckl, Vinnie and really any drummer who played with Zappa. Frank knew drums so no one sat on that drum stool unless they were great. Zappa alumni is the single greatest roll call for drummers although Weather Report and Steps Ahead are not too close behind.
My apologies for assuming. He's my number one. Ten years ago I hadn't heard anything of the likes. But, an ex played me so much stuff by Vinnie that I became a true appreciator and fan. My friends think I'm nuts!
Thank you so much for doing this! I have been a FZ & DZ fan for many years. You are a fine young drummer! Amazing really. I have always wanted to see a POV of these songs, Please do a full version if you have time. Andy
Would I be too far off if I thought Ryan was more of an Ansley than other drummers? I really like how Dunbar did BTM on Playground Psychotics from 20:00 to end. Especially the part that builds up. Saw Zappa first in 73. Thompson and Humphrey were the drummers.
Really nice playing and transcriptions. One observation: that Bozzio fill at 5:24, I think you are putting in extra accents at the start of each grouping. When you listen to Bozzio play that fill you can hear him transitioning between the snare and across the toms without really emphasizing the particular accents you did, giving his version a more "legato" sound. Not a criticism, you did awesome with this whole video. EDIT: after listening to the original recording again I think you nailed the phrasing, the biggest difference being his drum tone. It sounds like he tuned his skins a lot looser than yours. There's also no telling what kind of studio trickery Frank did in the studio with the EQ.
I saw Frank at five different concerts, one not twenty feet away from him and his body guard at a college auditorium in Chicago back in the seventies. Never did see Dweezil. Tickets were cheap back then too. 7 bucks or so.
One video he or another drummer should make is the drumming of the Isley Brothers 1963 record, Twist and Shout. That drummer, whose name I don't know - maybe someone knows - was an excellent groove drummer with incredible precision
First off, I love Frank's work. Second, I don't know how to sight read. Third, I'm not s drummer. Fourth, from what I can muster about the transcription at the top of the screen, it would (ignorantly) seem to me that, even though the kick drum might be playing a solid 4/4, the *spacing* of the measure is stretched or contracted to allow the notation for the other drums. A good example is at 4:00, "Andy." I see where the width of the measure (on paper) is constant, but the spacing of the kick drum is not, even though it is played as a solid and regular beat. I have no idea what the bars mean on the staffs for the snare drum either. As much as this confuses me, I find it fascinating! Makes me want to but a cheapie electronic drum set so I can play with headphones (and not embarrass myself) as I learn to play basic beats and slowly introduce more complicated stuff (never THIS complicated because I have three left feet and 1.5 right hands!) and learn to read. I have ALWAYS appreciated what drummers do with four limbs and odd time signatures!
I wonder which drummer Ryan likes the most? I was lucky being in the right place at the right time to see Zappa some two dozen times. Been to a dozen of Dweezil's shows and looking forward to the next one.
I was lucky enough to see Frank in KC Kansas back in 1980. 1500 seat venue. 5th row. Incredible! The whole band was amazing. Zappa and Skynryd were the two best shows I’ve ever seen.
I'm attempting the diddles (or drags) in Andy as singles. Can't quiet tell if you are diddling in same hand or playing as singles. Either way I try to take the hard road when ever possible lol. Great job man!
My favorite Zappa drummers... and i've heard almost all FZ classic records... Most rocking drummer: Aynsley Dunbar & Terry Bozzio (tie) Able to bring out the best in Zappa's guitar playing while improvising: Vinnie Colaiuta (bar none of the other Zappa drummers) Best pop drummer/most enjoyable for pop songs: David Logeman on YAWYI (really, seriously, David is great, after all he beat about 80+ drummers in the Zappa audition) Most creative and best all-around zappa drummer: Ralph Humphrey, who gets my #1 vote. So, RALPH HUMPHREY FOR PRESIDENT.
This is great that this information is getting out it really shows how the music was created and it reveals the the music behind it too bad Gale isn't around to Kill all the fun
