,,,,,,Thanks Bruce,,,,I'm 70 years here,,,,,I miss the 80's ,,,I would call S & S and get marge on the line ,,,Then talk to Sid or bruce Tessemer,,,,,,,Luv ya all..............
Great video. I've just bought my first Harley (Softail Deluxe). I've been watching your videos over the last few days and find the content superb and really informative. Thank you..
This tells me to greatly increase my warm up time! I was rolling with your comment "That's OK, well sell rockers too!" Very informative and funny! Thanks for posting.
Really cool video. I enjoyed the way you present and your tone. I noticed you didn’t answer anybody’s comments and I find that strange. All the effort to make the video and to help people and your own company and no responses. Thanks so much. I have a 113 in my Bourget chopper.
In 2015, before I heard this, I installed Andrews 26g cams ( 30k mi.) in my 04 Roadking. I bought the Comp Cams lifters to go with the new cams. I kept and used the stock oil pump. Now, add 40k more miles and I have never had a problem. I guess I'm just lucky, Ride safe!
In my very small, but VERY respected Dyna Performance Shop, we PROUDLY use S&S PRODUCTS almost exclusively. I do NOT receive discounts or anything more than the consumer on the street from the company. I use their products, because I DEMAND AND REQUIRE THE BEST. THANK YOU S&S !!
I always find our knowledge and videos very useful and helpful.. you definitely know your shit so to speak.. like I know mine when it comes to plumbing/gas fitting and hydronics/radiant heat systems as a master service Technician.. understanding how a mechanical system operates and works is key and you explain and lay it out easily... thanx 👍
I'm gonna speculate that S&S has a GM lifter modified to flow more oil. Those lifters, aside from laser markings, appear to be visually and dimensionally identical on the exterior. It would make sense that you could EDM pop bigger holes in the side and in the push-rod cup, without the added expense of having them custom made.
Good video and a believable explanation for the reason the car tappets don't work. The person doing the video seems very credible and explains things in a nice fashion.
I too would like to see the stock Harley lifters. I would also like to see them swapped from front to rear cylinder? Why didn't we see oil coming out of the exhaust pushrod on either cylinder?
Very interesting video. In it you reference the flow and bleed down rates being much higher than the automotive lifters AND Harley lifters. What are the Harley Davidson OEM lifters for let's say a 2010 Twin Cam flow and bleed down rates compared to the S&S lifters tested in this video?
No V8s have the opposite problem. If too much oil flows through all 16 lifters it drags too much oil from the pan and reduces oil pressure too much. But it looks like the only difference would be internal valving.
Not just the other day an 'expert' at my local watering hole was telling me how Harley and Chev tappets are 'one in the same'...............Hmmmm perhaps not. Thanks for the insight.
I heard somewhere along the line that you have to drill out the two holes.. the one in the body and the one in the cup one size bigger then stock in the Chevrolet lifter so that you get more oil flow but I've never tried this just heard about it also you would have to take into consideration between the two different valve trains that Chevrolet valve train is probably got a lot more tensile strength to open the valve versus the Harley engine I'm sure the Springs between a Harley valve and a Chevrolet valve are way different in tortion factors
I have an issue with the testing you demonstrated in the video, you show that oil glows under UV light, you show when the oil presents itself at the tip of the rocker yes but when you show the engine turning for 6 minutes and still oil in the "S&S side" but here is my issue, the oil is still only at the tip of the rocker. You should see oil on the spring, running around the top of the head and running to the drain back but all you see is a little light at the rocker tip.
With all the great mechanics with all the knowledge about these engines why hasn't anyone came up with the reason the twin cam 's tick and the fix for it?? The rocker blocker did work in my Twin cam and I have replaced the lifters with Feuling hp 4000. New Feuling cam plate with Feuling oil pump. New Andrews cam, same ticking I had as before. Bike has 25000 miles.
Issue still is, why does the S&S cost so much more than a GM lifter? If GM can mass produce lifters that will stand up to the punishment a big block can dish out, I'm pretty sure they could do the same for a lot less to change the guts out to meet HD requirements and sell them in 4 packs.
Serious question, would it be beneficial to use S&S lifters in my Chevy 454? I just blew a head gasket and I'm about to do a full rebuild. Considering the higher volume of oil transference I speculate they would be a big improvement to a High Performance V-8.
What he says IS true ... however ... there is a company in Texas that sells a GM lifter body with (I believe) a V-8 Mustang inner core. I could be wrong about the inner, it has been a while since I managed the shop I learned it at. The hybrid lifter puts out MORE volume at the lower HD pump pressure, with higher viscosity oils, and the hybrids are still cheaper than the S&S, and perform better than HD and as good as the S&S premium ones - IMHO. The GM ones seemed to last longer in our drag bikes than even the S&S did, but that is subjective to use. They also put out way more oil than the HD comparable performance lifters. They were the only lifters we used in our drag bikes, and in the Hi-Perf street rides we built - sorry that memory fails me about the name of the company that makes them (it was a long time ago, and this old mans memory is not what it used to be! LOL! - but I am sure you can research it a bit and find them. If you cannot find the Texas Hybrids ... S&S are perfectly good for your high horsepower engines, you'll just pay a lot more for the name! Ride Safe, Ride Sober, Ride FAST, but always RIDE FREE! Doc
Just curious, what internally does the Chevy lifter lack that the other lifter has. If its passages (holes are smaller) can they be drilled out and how much. If it's springs, can the springs be switched from the old lifters to the new and so on. Are they only "identical" as you stated externally or do they share similar yet slightly different internals that can be change by the home mech and thus save him/her some dollars.
We've never really investigated updating them for motorcycles. Chances are it would just be easier and cheaper to just buy some of the correct lifters.
Something else to consider: a GM V8 in the LS Series (I'm assuming these are the ones that were tested), the lifters sit in the valley at the camshaft, which is awash in oil almost immediately.
that is EXACTLY what i did in my Ultra with a 95 incher..just swapped the guts, into the new " hi-perf " G.M. lifter not perfect, i know, but still in there. the cups are hardened, of course, so way too hard to drill...lol i measured the orifice size , they were indeed different, can't for the life of me remember the hole sizes tho. i think there was about a .30 thou difference original cups weren't worn noticeably with the jewelers loupe, so i swapped 'em out, and used the same pushrods to their previous cups..made a pump shim for under the spring , jacked the pressure up a bit..( paranoid ) ..n' called 'er happy. lifters are on Woods cams Great video tho man. im too chicken to run MY engine for 6 plus minutes, with a dry rocker hole...
All that depends on whether you have a steel cam or a cast Cam and you have to use steel lifters with steel cams cast lifters with cast cams on anything
It just goes to show you how long some guys have been at this and how some have not. I've done this swap a few times and had no issues with oil what-so-ever. You can calculate it out to 75% of the existing oil passages thru the tappets but just for good measure I always increase the passage to twice the size, the rest of the motor is already sized for the heavier oil, you just need to size up the tappets. I lost count on the number of high performance motors I've built but some of this stuff is pretty simple. The hardest part of resizing your tappets is the set-up. By the way, which motor did you test out? You said an EVO didn't you? but I seen you rolling an older Shovelhead on to your test bench.
First off, on watching this, I had the idea you said you do. Open the oil holes in the lifter. If it worked for you, I might try it. When they were showing the testing machine, they rolled a shovel into position. But the test was clearly visible on either an EVO or a TC. They showed the open rocker boxes in UV.
I see a lot of comments here about the chevy lifters compared to stock lifters. This test doesn't use the standard S&S lifter for the test but the premium lifter. It would be interesting to see this test done with S&S standard lifters compared to OEM harley of the same era and the Chevy lifter for example the Comp Cams 850 lifter.
I would have liked to see this vid before buying 4 crane cam v8 lifters haha . I’m gonna use them anyway , time will tell , if they are the same as HD stock they will be fine for my engine ...
I have 88,000 +miles on a stock gm 5.3liter vortec lifter zeroes issues, just did a top end to go to 96 round inch and cams the old valve train looks excellent
@@thetrain5785 that’s evidence right there ! Thanks for the feedback mate . I like S&S gear , it’s good stuff but 6 min and still no oil to the top end with an auto lifter if this were the case and the lubrication was so inadequate engines like yours wouldn’t get those miles .
@@kiwiredbeard7632 I have a shop in Spokane wa I have done a few builds in my day, I actually installed those lifters because I was broke down with a collapsed lifted in Billings Montana and the only auto store around was a NAPA, I planed on switching back to a HD lifter but never did that was august 2002 ! And I ride my bikes they don’t sit in the garage 👍
There is no doubt that S&S knows their stuff and that they manufacture excellent products, but I wish they would have compared those lifters to the stock Harley lifters.
i think all push rod engines made in america work that way my old norton has a pipe to the rocker arms i should say engines with hyd.and push rods not solid like the norton
THAT MAKES NO SCENE TO ME @ ALL AN GM VR S& S ... OF COURSE S & S IS FAR MORE SUPERIOR BUT WHAT ABOUT COMPARED TO THE STOCK HARLEY ONE THAT'S MY QUESTION NO WAY ID PUT AN GM IN MY BELOVED HARLEY J/S
Harley valve spring seat pressures must be too low to make the lifter pump. Stiffer valve springs or softer spring in the lifter would cure it. Oil viscosity or pressure would not make a big difference providing the lifter gallery is full of oil feeding the lifters, the lifter is effectively a positive displacement pump, it needs to stroke slightly to pump the oil up.
A harley tech told the oil feed hole was just used to pump oil in it for the initial start up ,is this true ? So basically it does nothing after the first start up ?
@@shannonbarrios6484 All lifters have very slight leakage past the plunger, that's how they adjust for changes in length as the engine wears or as valve train tolerances change with temperature. They don't need much oil supply, but they do need a little.
Anybody with a little engineering logic would have been able to realize immediately what you proved without testing. Thanks for the test to 100% prove the reality. Additionally, Automotive tappets rely on significant oil pressure to automatically adjust clearance. They are not designed to pass oil to lubricate / cool the top end. There are oil Galleries in Automotive to lubricate the top end with the exact amount of lubricant needed. Water cooled engines are designed significantly differently than air cooled. Some of the best automotive engines ever built, can last 1 million miles. No Air Cooled Harley will do even 1/4 that. It is the nature of the laws of physics.
I am not an S&S employee or ever worked for them. PS. Replaying the video. I really like the end. Go ahead and install Chevy Tappets. S&S sell Rocker arms also. They were being profoundly "Smart Alec" telling you you will need serious engine repair by using Automotive tappets and they are ready to profit.
He forgot to mention, the oil drains down to the tappets from the rocker arms, down the pushrod tubes. But after all, this guy is trying to sell high priced aftermarket lifters.
