S2#2. Outremer 45 - Does it live up to the hype? As seen on La Vagabonde 

Thanks Brent, Yes it was a pleasure for us too and what a small world!!! I heard you were unabkle to get over to new Cal because of COVID restrictions - sorry to hear that... Good luck with progressing the project anyway!

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 👍 We were able to head for New Caledonia and actually were busy clearing out with ABF when Guy the flying vet called to say they had all gone into lockdown with the Delta variant - so - whilst we could still go we would’ve not been able to navigate as all boats were locked into Noumea. As a result we had to ask ABF to please accept a change of plan and with red face had to ask permission to stay here longer. They were really great and provided an additional years cruising permit as they could see our intention was to leave and not stay. So - we remain blessed in many ways but we’re sure to get the program going again 🙌✨

Thanks!

Thanks very much - glad you enjoy it!!!

Cheers Techie, we did but are trying to buy new, as we find it better for knowing the history first hand. I believe some thing will present! Thanks fir you message!

But which 30 year old can afford the price tag of 750K € plus? I mean, there is plenty serious sail boats in that price range and above. But with 30 you likely need a lucky inheritance, have a lucky exit from a 1:10 start-up that actually starts up really well, or a lottery win. And Outremer's boats are for GFK yachts super price stable. That means if you buy a 2018 model you are hardly any cash off. Banks are not happy to finance boats usually. Especially to a 30 year old.

Yes this boat is for specific people and fills that performance and racing niche. We have been there and it was great!

Thanks!

Cheers for your comment John!

Thanks Diane - yes brain in neutral and tongue not connecting!

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Always be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in to gear! LOL

Glad you liked it!

Cheers Ian!!

Thanks Derik for the comment. While boats that are built with foam core means that the pieces of hull by themselves will float, the weight of the boat overall (with engines, fit out cupboards, wiring, mast, stores, water and all belongings is 10 -20+tonnes. You need the same amount of buoyancy as you have weight so that is significant airtight voids and there are lots of sunk cats - just check out Sailing Dauntless who are renovating one. If air gets trapped in the bow as it sinks that will often help stop the boat going to the bottom but if you are in rough water the air will progressively bubble out - hence it is the air tight voids (and helped with watertight bulkheads) that will be the things that stops the boat going to the bottom.

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 The Seawind 1600 is marketed as virtually unsinkable. But I suppose if you put enough weight on it and left it for enough time it would sink to the bottom.

@@derikjbrandt Dear Derek, The cat I built had watertight voids throughout the length of the hull, in the bow and stern and in the nose cone - so that was unsinkable even if runner by a tanker the pieces would all all float away separately! I think the Seawind does have enough watertight voids to float if fully flooded and if that is the case, time does not have any bearing on it. The other thing that many sales people confuse you with is that they say that "even if it capsized it will not sink". They are just relying on the air trapped in the upside down hulls for that. Leopard have a diagram in their manual of how the boat will float if capsized - but is still sinks if flooded - so just be cautious. Watertight bulkheads stop water going from one area to another so if the engine room floods, it does not go into the rest of the hull but watertight voids never fill up with water so aways maintain their buoyancy. Hopefully one never has to test these issues but if you hit a container in mid Atlantic, I want water tight voids please!

Glad you think so!

Than ks again JT!

Hey Des, Yes we ware hop\ing to do a tour of the Garcia Expolocat when we go to France as it is any interesting option! Keep watching and we should show that though the winter...

Cheers Andrew!

Ta

You are aboslutely doing the right thing to sail on them first - well done! Some people even buy a boat based on the dream and then discover they don't even like the lifestyle so sell up!

Barefoot Doctors Sailing so lovely to hear from you. Yes I totally agree. Better to roadtest your dream and then see if it is still the dream you want! So many dreams are based on fantasy. I am proud of me for actually doing the proper research and not just replying on watching sailing videos on you tube! Love to you both. X

Exactly, we had that conversation off camera before the chat as Brent had many calls with us in Australia as we were close to trying to set something up in the South Pacific for aid work...

Thanks for the comment again Tom. Yes the show was what we expected mostly - shortage of new boat meant that many were second hand and less "deals" and less gear than usual I think due to the shortage of supply...

Those are good points but the one thing I disagree with is that "catamarans don't sink". If both hulls hit the reef and they fill with water, all the common cruising brands will sink (as seen one Sailing Dauntless and several other events) If you hit the reef you are likely to get leaks in the main hull and engine compartment and unless you have air tight voids, the weight of the cat makes it sink...They are such a simple addition and in cats you will never had up all that under sole space. Not that anyone ever want to test the theory but I want to be sure to float if we sail over the top of a container, hit a whale or a reef...

We are reviewing the 1600 Seawind as the 1370 will be adequately covered by Ruby Rose, I am sure. The 1600 is the one with the lifting daggerboard so is significantly different from the 1370 too.

We will be reviewing the Seawind 1600 and later will consider the 1370.

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Check out Ruby Rose as they are in the process of acquiring a NEW Seawind 1370, one of the first hulls in the new design. Should be an exciting addition to the family of Seawinds.

The Seawind 1370 (over 70 orders now) has a displacement of 11 tonnes (24k lbs) - so its aprox 15-20% heavier than this Outremer. A Lagoon 46 is 15.5 tonnes and a Lepard 45 is 14.9 tonnes. The Seawind 1370 is aimed at comfortable performance cruising - it also has a lot more volume than the Outremer 45.

I've looked closely at the Seawind and everything is great ....apart from the position of their helm- no good IMHO having a protected helm in inclement weather if you cannot see forward. In a big spray, I have no doubt there will be big visibility issues in Seawinds with having to look through Salon windows. People may disagree, but its a deal breaker for me.

Thanks Alex. Of course the other factor now is availability too though...

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 as far I know for Leopard 45 the waiting list is not that long. not sure about Leopard 50, but for Leopard 45 there are free slots with delivery in April-May 2023

We are going to visit the Explocat yard in France to check them out and haven't been on a 55 Outremer yet.

Yes I don't envy the struggle for the boat builders that have to balance what the consumers are buying when they chose a boat that looks good in the shows but perfoms poorly or is constructed less well... They have to choose their target market too and decide what to make. Its a tough business.

Are many people spending 3/4 of a million dollars plus wanting to live on a race boat = not many. Are people spending said large amount of money willing to lose a portion of the performance for the mod cons of modern life in real beads, heads,shower enclosure. Fridges/freezer, power system = as many as the manufacturer can produce per year. Hmm seems to me to be a good business decision. Limited production = lack of orders.

lucky you Conrad!!! Well done. Yes there are several quality cat producers in South Africa that we have not been able to see or get the details about - so we will try and check out the Vision - thanks! Where are you sailing it because if we are nearby it would be great to have look / tour...

Agree 100%. 👍 And, Riley and Elayna are quite the adrenaline junkies. As are most of the Australian mates.

Yes the Atlantic crossing shows what the boat can do and what is is like to be on the Outremer in a storm.... Its a great series of videos to get a better sense of what it is like sailing in rough weather.

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 I think Cat IMPI would disagree with that to some degree.

I am not a fan of the Outremers and I do not hold to the theory of SPEED as a safety factor. The majority of worldwide cruisers hold to the theory that a bluewater boat must be STRONG, reliable, capable, and COMFORTABLE. Check out Zatara and his views and you will see that the majority of experiences Keith and Renee have had proves that no one at the end of the day states, "Hey, so glad I was able to outrun that storm, getting here faster was awesome". It's just not the reality in the real world. In the real world, you hear people talking about how COMFORTABLE or uncomfortable the passage was for them. And overwhelmingly the bigger, more stable, and slower boats win the day. We have excellent forecasting capabilities now and can avoid 95% of all major storms especially when we are NOT in a hurry to get somewhere. And that's the real issue at hand, as cruisers, we are in NO RUSH to get from point A to point B on the chart. We can sit and wait for the perfect weather window. Yes, squalls will still happen and come from nowhere, and a bigger and larger boat will handle them with no issues. A smaller and lighter boat will get tossed to and fro way more easily by these squalls and make for a very uncomfortable passage. While I applaud La Vagabond and her crew for making a very rough Atlantic crossing, it was obvious to me it was not a comfortable passage and one that I believe most people if they had the choice would choose a bigger more capable, and a slower boat that would make for a more comfortable passage. They are a young crew, a MINORITY in the cruising world. The majority are older people in their 60's and they do not like being tossed around like that for the sake of speed.

@@MichaelBuck I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I am NOT a fan of Zatara's boat at all myself, but in the end there must be a reason why there's a market for that type of vessel. To each his own and all that.

Still waiting - sorry. No payout, no investigation completed yet.... We will let everyone know when there is some outcome and actions.

Thanks Jim, we are keeping our eyes open. We do not want to buy in Australia or SE Asia as we are trying to buy in the Med / Caribbean and head homeward...

Yes that is right - the best polars are when they have both the lightship and full displacement figures so you can be more realistic for cruising estimates. Unfortunately the narrow hulled performance cats are most affected by weight and I am convinced that the majority of cruisers are overweight so get poor performance... Examples are cat cruisers that have all bilges and cupboards filled to the brim and then even create extra storage spaces for more weight.

Hi Tom, we want new to break it in our way, and there are no new 50s available, it is prudent we check out what is now in the market as there has been a lot of advancements in 3 years so we can have an informed decision.

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Out of curiosity, how long did it take for you to get Ultra Dash, from ordering to taking delivery?

@@tomm9427 20 months - few months delay due to COVID closures

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Cheers Guys, Keep safe, Look forward to your next video

Hi Sheila yes, we will feature it also in time. Thanks fir your message!

Hi Rick, think we know what you are alluding to… perhaps interesting times ahead.

Hey Doug, Yes they can be built without it but that means that the boat will not get CE certification (for Euroipean approval) so can't go into charter but if if it for personal use you can do without. The boat I built did not have the escape hatches.

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 , Have you guys looked at the new Balance 442?

@@douglasmontgomery6315 The Balance 482 review is the video coming out next!!!

I bags having the Bristle end!

Not now; they're sailing her in the Caribbean. COVID has caused Rapido setbacks and building delays in Vietnam.

Yes it is, but we would like new as any new boat will come with things that need attention and we want to be involved with all the history of the boat if possible, we have had new and used boats and new is our choice. Thanks for your message.

Yes everyone’s plans are in a holding position ATM !

I don't think so. More likely most companies exaggerate their polar performance (its calculated). Good luck matching any boats performance to the polar. Realistically the polar should be done by an independent acredited company using the same formulas and variables.

Hey Glenn, That is the reason that is most obvious but T=the other reason is that the polars released by some brands are deceptive - they can do it on bare boats without the essential cruising gear and then you are not comparing apples to apples.... So not always a reflection of poor performance. There were some polars for the Outremer 51 released to Ruby Rose on their 51 review and the surprising thing with those is that the downwind performance was quite poor with only doing about 12 knots on a broad reach in 20 knots. Again we don't know if those were based on sailing with Jib and main only (I assume it was) or did it include the use of asymmetrical spinnaker / Code D etc... Too many variables to make a call as they should go downwind well too.

We always struggle with the pronunciation but I think it helps if you put on a French scent and pose, wave you hands around a bit and say "ooot rrra merrrr" rolling the r's deep in your throat

Thanks Crystal! Yes we do need a bit more room and and some creature comforts.

Speak for yourself michael. Performance catamarans like outremer and seawind and balance are doing well and are on the rise…things change, roll with it.

A big advantage is sailing at low speed. Performance cats can be capable of sailing at wind speed. You often will see Zatara motoring, whilst an outremer would sail. Personally I can't stand motoring, hate the vibrations, noise, smell and cost.

Another big advantage is the solid glass bottoms, strong enough to ride up onto a reef. One did this in tahiti and was fine. And as they said multiple sealed bulkheads. They are designed to do multiple cumnavigations, designed to last 50 years. Very strong and safe boats.

Congrats on the # of assumptions!

Gunboats are much more expensive though...