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S3#35 What!! Upright Fridge for Portofino 52 - WHY?? + We go back to our Leopard 45 after 8 months

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Join the Barefoot Doctors as we discuss the controversial concept of having an UPRIGHT FRIDGE / FREEZER on a performance sailing cat, the Portofino 52. We share our experiences with the standard supplied marine Vitrifrigo fridges with their specifications and compare them to commercially available fridge freezers - the results will astound you - they certainly did for us!!!
It affects all sailing yachties that spend more than a month on their boats at a time... It certainly looks like the REAL FACTS about the marine fridges are not disclosed fully and apart from convenience of installation, why are so many yacht manufacturers using these fridges??? We just do not understand and want to know if there is some facts that we do not know about - please fill us in if our calculations are wrong or if we have missed something...
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Опубликовано:

26 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 156

@mangowalter8239 10 месяцев назад

Oh my goodness! That’s insane to have that much ice buildup after a few weeks in those overpriced fridge and freezer. I agree with your assessment, John. When you showed pictures of the Portofino I fell in love with the fridge! My last 45’ Class A Coach had a residential Samsung fridge and it was so nice. The ice maker was a workhorse and the available room inside was a game changer! You are gonna be so happy and have more time for snorkeling. ☺️

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good to hear, Mango! Yes we do waste a lot of time dealing with the ff and even finding things inside is often tricky...

@sailingstpommedeterre4905 10 месяцев назад

I also have a Vitrofrigo (2-drawer, Model No. DW180 Freezer/Frig). I am glad you made this video, because I have the same frustration that the Freezer is not Frost-Free. Also, the stainless steel chosen must be simple SS302, which will corrode in the marine environmen. To resolve this issue, I just turn off the frig/freezer for about 6-hour (1x per week). Such a shameful product.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the support and the once a week manual defrost. Do you leave the fridge door open for the 6 hours and does your freezer stuff stay ok with that process?

@marktaylor484 10 месяцев назад

The marine industry has a lot to answer for and I agree wholeheartedly with you on the fridge/freezers' issues. I'm guessing that the fridges are marine steel/aluminium graded and about the only thing a domestic fridge/freezer combo might lack is the locking catches which would be useful in a heavy seaway.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Yes thanks Mark, and we will need to add latches if they are not already there (as they tend not to be for convenience in the domestic devices...

@carlospereira9838 10 месяцев назад

Marine = 3 to 10 times the normal price. Just look at the marine electronics. For my build I am going open source. It is less than 1/10 of the commercial marine electronics. Even DC generators I got quoted for. 40kw generator for over 40k. With my DIY design which is exactly the same as the commercial stuff but without all the fancy electronics under 10k. Beta Maine engines are a joke I can assemble a marine engine for less that 1/3 of the cost.

@Matt-zk5kj 10 месяцев назад

Domestic fridges work great on the Bali's. Cheap to replace too. Painted finish stay looking great and I have seen some who have added a wrap which has an endless variety of colour choices.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good points and thanks for letting us know, Matt. Very reassuring!

@MikeJohnson-bu4gl 10 месяцев назад

Fully agree with your choice of a side by side...would prefer LG...the only thing that you did not mention is the evaporation space for the frost free part of the operation...the amount by the maker is not enough for the marine environment....

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Mike - we will have to keep that in mind and look at the specs as we design it in...

@donrichards7173 10 месяцев назад

We have a large domestic Samsung f/f on our leopard. Straps to hold doors and drawers while underway but fine at anchor/berth. So far so good.

@anyasamuel7666 10 месяцев назад

We have the same on our Lagoon 39. Very happy!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

THanks for that info, Don. It certainly seems to be the way to go and we will need to sort out door latches or straps, as you say. Glad it's working well and glad that many folk out there are already bypassing the marine options...

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good to hear it works on a 39 as well!

@daniellibby3849 9 месяцев назад

Could you please post some pic on how looks

@stephenmurray9850 10 месяцев назад

Most of the time it is the back of the fridge that needs to be carefully looked at. This is where most of the rust (from condensation ) would happen. The good thing (which I hope still happens) is domestic fridges last a lifetime or just about. Mine I bought second hand 20 years ago and is still going great. ( in a house environment though) . Good luck with your new boat. Thanks for the video.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Stephen for the advice and we will keep that in mind!

@mrmped1 10 месяцев назад

Some things to think about. The residential fridge dumps it's heat into the living space and when it goes into defrost mode every night, it dumps the water into a condensate tray underneath. You may have to modify the fridge by running the condensate hose over the side or into the bilge.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good points, MRM. While I did not go into that added trouble with the VItrifrigos, they have a drain tray that collects condensation and it has a small hole to a tube that runs to the bilge. Unfortunately the hole is so small it blocks with dirt then water oozes across the saloon floor on the Leopards. So another design problem there. Yes, you are right we will need that drain pipe for the domestic fridge too - I would prefer over the side (say into a basin drainpipe above the waterline) but as a fall back, into the bilge to be emptied with the float switch...

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Fridge condensate tends to get smelly.. take it to the other side of a water trap in a hull or straight out the bridge deck. Just dont forget in cold climbs small outout flows can freeze up.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 Thanks Clive! We are aiming never to be in the "colder" climes where the water will freeze! We have actually just starting thinking that if the coconut oil starts going hard we should head for warmer areas!!!! However it might only be 18*C so that might not be possible!!!!

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 😂😂 ... lol the weathers getting weird ...one of the few disadvantages of an alloy hull is its thermal and noise conductivity. So insulation is still needed both ways. See the James Familly sailing round Australia...in their Al cruising cat in need of finishing. For your engine bays or generator /battery bays ... Im going to suggest Basalt matting and as exhaust lagging suppresses noise/vibration and is temp stable from -250 to 750+… rot proof acid and alkali proof inhibits microbes and mould. 😉 Lol. But you guys know that ... theres also a none toxic fire resistant epoxy resin available now. Its also green.. to make and safe to work with minimal protection.🌍

@wrobelda 25 дней назад

I recommend looking into Liebherr models, which are the only A++ clsss double door fridges on the market double door fridges. On top of that, they have ventilation on the bottom so don’t need room in the back thus use less space.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 25 дней назад

Thanks for that info - we will hopefully be able to get one!

@wrobelda 24 дня назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Sure. The specific model is called "SBSbs 8673 Premium BioFresh NoFrost" and on top of the above, they have a door locking mechanism built in, which should make it safe for crossings!

@kptbillburkett8735 10 месяцев назад

And I have ben saying this for years. The Domestic refrigerator freezer is better than the marine freezers and refrigerators. For cats it works but for a Monahall you most likely don't have the space. Great video this week. Can't wait to see the New Boat someday. So until next time, Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good to hear from you Bill and my thoughts are correct and been your views for so long! We need to get more folk to know this as it seems to be fairly well established mis information....

@carlospereira9838 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Also the AC systems the parts are far cheaper and much easier to get and pretty much any qualified service repairman can fix it. I too am sold on the AC systems as long as you have the power for it.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@carlospereira9838 Good point Carlos. The overall power required in the good commercial f/f are less than the DC (616W vs 1700W) and the standard inverters on boats can cope with the AC production and still save power!

@carlospereira9838 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Don’t forget to account for the DC to AC conversion loss from the inverter. With DC systems you don’t have any loses unless your going from 48v to 12-24v. With my 48v system design I do have loses on the DC conversions so that was my final decision to go AC for my fridge freezer needs. Also you need to factor the idle loss on the inverter side as well.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@carlospereira9838 Yes Carlos, you are quite right - just having the inverter with no AC being drawn draws about 3-5 amps on our L45. That is significant....

@gregvaughn4286 10 месяцев назад

That was a good video, I've seen that in motels with that small fridge and microwave that they offer. Thanks!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

hanks for the commenting Greg. Yes there are many commercial options.

@juergenzenner4219 10 месяцев назад

Your arguments just make sense!!!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Juergen!

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

The other news i wanted to point out to you is a bunch of researchers have developed a passive solar desalinator that doesnt clog up and can produce significant amounts of fresh water at below US tap water costs. Its an MIT research project. It uses the natural thermalhaline flow principle of the ocean in miniature to avoid saline clogging. Cheap, silent and effective fresh water back up.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Wow, Clive sounds very interesting Clive! I look forward to it becoming available to all of us!

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Scaling up their experimental rig to 1 M sq size it could produce 5L of drinking water per hour for several years without salting up or using any other than solar energy.. They have applied for a patient.. but the objective is to get clean potable drinking water to areas of the world where the only supply is saline. But if you take that as a smaller suitcase sized piece of kit with no moving parts .. or need for power other than solar it could keep a sailing boats crew going for years or act as survival kit in a lifeboat. 👍🏼

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 That sounds fantastic!!!

@jeffalexander544 10 месяцев назад

When cleaning stainless steel, always wide with the direction of the grain. Thanks for the great video!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Great point Jeff! Thanks for that - so we should treat it like wood then... We did not realise.

@mtrezaie 10 месяцев назад

Well, you make a lot of sense. I am commenting to come back to this and learn what others would say.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for following!

@bill2292 10 месяцев назад

Hi John, The single best change we made on our 50 was installing a regular home style 110v fridge-freezer. No more defrosting and no more unloading the box to get to what's on the bottom! We considered a full size 4 door but settled on more modest one so it wouldn't dominate our salon. Seems to use the same amount of power as our Vitrifrigo that was less than half the size.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

That is awesome! Bill! Exactly what we thought and glad our calculations are solid...

@seawench555 10 месяцев назад

Yah ur Back, I'm whole again.🤣Hi to all the Exp Barfoot tribe, I've missed all the comments. I'm So happy ur both Back on Expedition BareFoot. Ok the bloody freezer, does it not have a thermostat dial for cooling levels? I bought a 150 litre upright 4 way marine fridge for $3000, and the dam reset button didn't work, so when u turn it off then on from 1 power input to another being 12v battery, solar, lpg and 240v Aus and now it won't work at all, needless to say I'm P!$$€D Off. So $45 later for new reset button and it works but ur both absolutely right, these fridge freezers are ridiculously expensive for the VERY poor manufacturing quality. Great informative presentation, so good to hear ur voice Eli. U both look well, but weary. So where are we Adventuring to next.? And I've had an epifany (Solar Sails) we gotta manufacture them before anyone else does🤣 love yas both🇦🇺🌈🏳️‍🌈🐳

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Great to hear from you too Karlene! Sorry you had same trouble with marine ff - it seems to be a pattern that many folk are unhappy about them! Let's get some community action to improve them!!!! We are finishing the summer season in Turkey and leaving the boat in Rhodes again and then going back to Aus for Xmas via Dubai and starting again in March next year...

@petrospapaioannou2036 10 месяцев назад

If you go for a domestic refrigerator check the rear. If the coil is visible check the screws that hold it against the rear panel. Usually they are the first to rust. Next is the pieces that hold the motor, both screws and the frame. Nice video.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Great points Pedro - thanks and we will keep that in mind!

@petrospapaioannou2036 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 It's Petros in greek not Pedro

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@petrospapaioannou2036 Sorry Petros, I think that may have been auto correct or I just read it wrong! My apologies and clearly that is a good Greek surname!!!

@carlospereira9838 10 месяцев назад

I have done the same thing. I switched my design from all DC to all AC for my fridge freezers needs. The AC does use more power however you can offset with more solar panels. End result goin the AC route it’s about 1/3 to 1/5 the price than the DC route.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for sharing, Carlos! Great to know we are on the right track!

@carlospereira9838 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 It basically come down to energy efficiency. If you have the extra power then go AC and save money and have more volume in your fridge Freezer. If you don’t have the extra power then you have to go DC and expect to pay 3 to 5 times as much for the same volume. Now if you are in a monohull then I would say stick to the DC fridge freezer due to the heal angle. DC fridge freezers are designed for up to 30 degree angle and can still function normally. AC fridge freezers cannot do this but on a catamaran that is not an issue.

@akLeanne 10 месяцев назад

I have a dorm fridge on mine. When the original died, years ago I went fridge hunting. Holy shit the prices were nuts. The same size but not marine was 1/4 of the price on a domestic They were an 1/8 off maybe smaller, just enough to piss you off. I made it work.I saved a ton of money and it's still working. Never had an issue with it.. Go figure 3x as much and the lifespan is a 1/3 less... money racket I say.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

That is exactly right Leanne! We put this video out to try and make it more common knowledge about the profiteering that is going on and the poor quality devices we are being supplied while being told they are "high quality". We should all stop buying them and encourage the yacht manufacturers to stop putting them in - or design their boats to go with the other options that will save us all money and use less power aboard!

@vladimirsapogov1994 10 месяцев назад

Hi, There are already a lot of videos about stainless steel being used recently on boats. The quality of steel has become very poor, most likely this is a reduction in production costs, which negatively affects the quality of the product. The savings on commercial refrigerators are significant in terms of energy consumption and storage volume, but again this is only for catamarans. Thank you for the video.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the info, Vladimir! And you are right that we were only referring to using these on cats...

@BostonClipper 10 месяцев назад

Home refrigerators need to be level. When installed in a house a level is used to dial each corner up or down. Not sure why. Might be worth asking about home refrigerators in heeling conditions. Maybe marine refrigerators have a stronger refrigerant pump? Second consideration. Refrigerators auto-defrost periodically warming and melting ice buildup. The condensation goes to a drip pan under the refrigerator. I do not think the pan is enclosed otherwise the condensate would not evaporate. It might be worth asking questions about a home refrigerator drip pan in heeling conditions. A redirect to the bilge may save your flooring from pan spillage? I have no idea if basic refrigeration has changed over the years, maybe. These are the two questions I would research besides the obvious question of how items on the shelves do not fall out when the doors are opened while heeling.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for your great comments again and yes, you are right about the intolerance of heeling but it is apparently fine for the amount cats heel. Things falling out is an another issue - we will need latches and some fridge freezers have plastic doors in each section (to keep the cold in) and these will stop the things falling out. We will need the drain tray and the marine fridges have this too leading to the bilge although I would prefer into a sink drain and directly outside to keep inside dry...

@BostonClipper 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Sink drain is a great idea

@dreamofsailing 10 месяцев назад

Very logical points!👍

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Glad you think so! Thanks for the comment and support!

@MrJerobona 10 месяцев назад

You are totally right! All those Marine freezer and refrigerators are ridiculously expensive and do not last! So much easier to buy regular household appliances they are more trouble-free and way cheaper! BUT do not buy Samsung, they are pure disaster!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Interesting Jero - have you had bad experiences with Samsungs?

@RudderlessElectricAlalloyCat 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 I used to have one, samsung fridge really a crap😂

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@RudderlessElectricAlalloyCat wow!!! That’s a shame - is there a brand you would recommend?

@meshedgears2794 10 месяцев назад

I really think your making a good decision on the refrigerator, and because your from the land down under I would look at some of those pulls out camper trailers for your drinks fridge. Some of the go anywhere camper trailers have some ingenious solutions for a pullout easy to access equipment. I have also seen people use plug in box coolers as an extra seat for the table , that would open your under cockpit space for pull out storage. -MG

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks MG for your comments again. Yes the box coolers are usually used when the established F/F volumes are not enough - as we did on the Leopard50 across the Atlantic. Hopefully if we had 640L of F/F space, we would not need that...

@KirkThomson 10 месяцев назад

I would check out some of the new RV fridges that work on 12V only. They give you the same volume of space as a residential design but use a lot less power.

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

The polish familly aboard sailing oceans had to cut a hole in their headliner to get their upright freezer in . Still a struggle i pointed out it would have been easier to add a hatch and crane it straight in.😂 The S Africans produce a range of highly insulated fridges freezers designed to keep stuff cold for very long times with no power... because of their rolling power cuts.. like living off grid and they have taken to putting them onboard their boats because of their efficiency and comparatively low cost.😊 Glad to see you back aboard your own boat... It just shows you how much damage UV and high winds can do to most plastics. Those plastics then end up like the sand been blown around in the air and out over water. For your Boat for life Cat .. have you had a look at Molabo 50kw 48v electric motors .. I know i mentioned 120 bhp equiv Nissan leaf motors like others have used in luding an ex tesla engineer in his motor cat conversion. There are tiny 80- 100 hp brushless electric motors out there now that only need inspecting every other year.. Series hybrid power via solar, regen and back up generator/s could be just the ticket ... and with fuel problems barreling down the pipeline... to reverse the metaphor, diversity of power options is looking more important than ever.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Excellent points!

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 The other motor company to take a look at is the Advanced electrical Machines company out of Newcastle university uk .. They have developed a range of high torque electrical motors initially for comercial vehicles that dont use permanent magnets therefore avoid rare earth metals and even avoiding copper motor windings...whilst maintaining high efficiency and reducing material costs. They are also unaffected therefore by heat and vibration... Which can weaken permanent magnet motors. They are also interested in developing into the marine world. Their more powerful motors are modular so can be stacked in line to increase the power and torque to the sort of dizzy outputs required by heavy commercial vehicles.🤔🤞🏼🧙‍♂️ Might be worth E mailing them and getting to face time with your guys. They are able to use Al and steel in their motors. In the space of two years its looking like electric powered hybrid systems are becoming the new mainstream.

@jackwickman2403 10 месяцев назад

How do you keep the doors of the upright refrigerator shut when sailing in rough conditions? Will you add some kind of latch or do you think the magnets in the door gasket are strong enough to hold? Adding fiddles (raised ridges) to the front edges of the shelves might be good to prevent things from sliding forward and then falling out when you open the door. Otherwise, putting small items in plastic bins may help. Drawer type units avoid this, but certainly don't offer the easy access of front doors. I'm curious to learn if you're able to just put things in the fridge like you would on land and not end up with a mess. In a monohull no, but maybe in a catamaran. Please let us know how this goes. Ice buildup on the cooling fins of any refrigerator or freezer comes from humidity in the air condensing on the cold fins and freezing. Air on boats is often very humid, speeding up this process. The more often you open the fridge door, the more humid air gets in, and the more ice you get. Fresh fruits and vegetables can also release water vapor if not in air tight containers. The ice buildup blocks airflow and reduces the fins ability to cool the air in the box, causing the compressor to run longer and using more electricity. This is unavoidable. Something that is avoidable that adds to the problem is air leaks from the rubber door gasket. Check the position of the gasket and look for damage. The rubber that gaskets are made of can harden with age and loose the ability to form a good seal. A new replacement may help. If you have a deep freeze unit for long term storage and rarely open it should have very little ice buildup if there are no air leaks. There are several different methods that can be used to remove the ice buildup. The simplest is to turn off the compressor, open the door and wait for the ice to melt. Your food will get warm. If the melt water drips all over the contents of the fridge and is not removed it will evaporate and end up back on the cooling fins when you turn the compressor back on. It's important to catch the dripping water and remove is from inside the box. Other schemes involve actively heating the cooling fins. This greatly speeds up the melt. With these methods it is possible to melt the ice so quickly that the stored food only warms slightly. A drip tray is built in under the fins with a drain tube routed through a hole sending the water outside the box. Automatic valves reverse the flow of the refrigerant so that instead of the fins inside the box getting cold and the fins outside the box getting hot, they reverse and the fin inside the box get hot and the outside fins get cold. This melts the ice very rapidly. The complexity of this raises the cost of the unit, but gives excellent performance. Home appliances aren't made to resist salt air corrosion. The motor and compressor of a fridge are sealed in a metal can (hermetically sealed) so they are protected but many electrical connections and circuit boards are not. An easy and cheap way to slow corrosion in a marine environment is to spray all the electrical and mechanical parts that are concealed in the bottom or back of the unit (areas you won't be touching in daily use) with a heavy coating of WD-40. Spray it as if you are painting a coat of clear lacquer over the metal parts. Spray inside any electrical junction boxes and both sides of circuit boards. If you can, unplug any control relays or electronic modules (little plastic cubes) and spray both their metal pins and the sockets they plug into. If you can't unplug them flood the gap between the socket and the relay with WD-40 using the plastic tube squirter. If you heavily soak these areas with WD-40 there will be a lot of dripping , so I prefer to do this on land before moving things onto the boat. Put a sheet of cardboard and some rags under the unit to control the runoff. Then let it sit for a day or two to dry and stop dripping. You'll smell the WD-40 for a few days, but this will fade away. My experience is that this can noticeably increase the life span of land based home appliances when used on salt water boats. Stay cool.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Hi Jack, thanks so much for your in-depth comment! In answer to your questions: - Yes we will need to add latches to the doors but I do not expect to need to add fiddles as the locked doors should hold the contents (hopefully and we will see). I know some domestic fridges have each section closed off with a plastic door so we may be able to get one like that. We needed this sort of fridge to store vaccines in our practices... - Thanks for the info about the seals and door opening. These are new fridges with new seals and good closing so I maintain that they are just poor quality / poorly designed FF. Will keep your info in mind with the new ff. - I do not know how the Samsungs auto defrost but that power and cost is already included in the annual power calculations and the price is still good, so we live in hope! - Thanks you so much for the detailed solution to reducing rust of the ff for the boat. We will definitely do that aw you have recommended! Wonderful info and advice - thanks again!!!

@claudiof.barbano5530 10 месяцев назад

Make sure the fridge has good outside ventilation, at home my side-by-side fridge suffered a lot of ice formation, and the cause was not enough ventilation (in the back). Also a too full fridge will have similar effect

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Claudio, good points!

@geniexmay562 10 месяцев назад

I've heard integral icemakers can be trouble and break down a lot. Also two smaller units might give a bit of redundancy and the option to just use one when you don't have crew.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Good points, Genie! In that regard, we may consider having a second portable unit too as back up that we can turn off when not required and take it with us to the beach etc...

@qchatgreg 9 месяцев назад

100% agree with your analysis…. … get the standard consumer fridge for less than half the price, with much better functionality and space… and even if you replace it twice as often, your still way ahead. vitrifrigo = “special for a boat” = we can charge silly prices .. because of course its somehow related to a boat! … great work on your analysis. and to see real world examples of just how poor some of these “specialised” boat appliances perform!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for confirming that Greg. It just seems strange that all the brands just want to make it easy for themselves so use these poorly functioning products (inly sail drives, bad pumps and seacocks....)

@brianstevenson9967 9 месяцев назад

It’s very simple, if those stainless steel doors are showing signs of rust staining then they are not Stainless Steel, as I said it really is that simple, stainless steel does not rust.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 9 месяцев назад

Thanks Brian! Irritating, isn't it?

@tonyacerra2329 10 месяцев назад

Try cleaning the rust spots with a cotton wadding called “Never Dull”. It comes in a small round metal can.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for that suggestion Tony!

@tonyacerra2329 10 месяцев назад

I literally used it 50 years ago on the chrome of my bicycle when I was a kid. So it should work wonders on winches and railings etc. I also asked Portofino if they planed on making a smaller cat about 42’ and they said no. The 47 is out of reach for me. Happy sailing.

@glynmatthews2156 10 месяцев назад

Makes sense to use a domestic fridge for volume, space and probably reliability as I expect they are produced in higher volumes. The only thing that I was wondering was about latching the doors shut as the magnetic seals may not be strong enough in rough seas. You may have to adapt them slightly to keep them shut.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Hi GLyn, yes you are right, we will need to add latches to be able to lock the doors / drawers of the ff. Thanks for the suggestion.

@bill2292 10 месяцев назад

I can send you info on where to get latches if you like@@barefootdoctorssailing8567

@JRTurgeon13 10 месяцев назад

Marine fridge/freezer should be better at resisting shocks from the boat's movements and corrosion from salty sea air. Self-defrosting freezer means more electrical consumption and freezer 'burn' for anything that is not vacuum sealed. So a conventional fridge/freezer would be more convenient but would probably need to be replaced sooner.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the comment and yes, as you say, that is what we would expect. However the number of problems with them and the fact that the commercial ones include the defrost in their annual power consumptions and it is close to 1/3 of the Vitrifrigo and their capacity is 1/2 - so 6 times less efficient!!! I think it is the compressors that die and that time frame in my experience with previous boats is that the compressors in the "marine" versions die in 4-5 years anyway!

@richardcelata2812 10 месяцев назад

If they used 18/8 stainless steel, you would not have that "staining". I do not know how Samsung will stand up to the salt, but you can buy 3 for the price of one of the others. I would go with the Samsung or another home fridge.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Richard! Yes the salt corrosion certainly is one risk but others here suggest coating the wires before installation to protect from that and fortunately cats are much drier than monohulls and do not get salt water in the galley normally... As the wise man says, "we will see"!!!

@ItisImarko 9 месяцев назад

Hehe..finaly someone with brains.. btw.. those marine should be 316ss material..home product should be 304ss.. Second just buy plastic fridge or aluminium..0 problems lighter and tiny bit energy efficient (but you can upgrade insulation(my situation will require that).

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 9 месяцев назад

Great advice and info- thanks Jean-Luc!

@WillN2Go1 10 месяцев назад

Good to bash these products and companies. How else are we going to know and the companies are going to improve? My grandmother's Norge refrigerator from the 1940s had these sorts of issues (and probably was about as efficient.) It's often better to buy a tech item produced in the largest quantities. In George Dyson's history of the Eniac computer he tells how they selected which vacuum tubes to use. They were going to need thousands of them and they had to be as reliable as possible. So they tested hundreds of vacuum tubes especially the more expensive long life ones. What they learned was (and this was true for quartz automobile headlamps in the 1990s) the long life ones made in short production runs were the least reliable. The longest lived and most reliable tubes were the models produced in the largest numbers, they were also among the least expensive. What I know about fridges is high humidity and ambient temperature puts a greater load on them. Makes sense. High humidity also increases the frosting problem inside. Open it and air with more water in it enters. But your experience is unacceptable. Watching this I realized I've been putting 5 gallon (4.x litre) jugs of very warm sugar syrup (dense so a greater thermal hit) into my home fridge every couple of weeks. (I feed a mob of hummingbirds.) This should cause frost problems, it never does. So yep, better to carve out a space for an appliance store fridge with a high Consumer Reports rating for reliability and efficiency. Looking nice, and keeping the door from flying open in rough conditions should be a secondary consideration to essential function. Workarounds will fix the door flying open. Every company making refrigerators have engineers. Huge companies like LG, Samsung have even more engineers streamlining production, working on making them more efficient and more reliable. (or less reliable which has been the case with large appliances over the past twenty years. How else are they going to sell you another one? And company bashing? I was on a boat that had a few problems with the rigging. Discussing it as a crew I made the suggestion that these issues be raised in the user forum. I got jumped on and ridiculed. Wait a minute! I'm on this boat helping to fix these problems and you've just come after me far more harshly than you think would be okay against the company that created and ignored all these problems??? They settled into to taunting me anytime I complained with "Why don't you write a letter?" (Fixers are complainers, dissatisfied people fix things. It's all the complainers who never fix anything that give us a bad rep.) The implication is of course, 'as if that would accomplish anything.' Then I told them about the free car Ford gave us after a letter my wife and I wrote.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Hi again Will and thanks for the comprehensive comments! And yes, I agree tip you that we should vocalise the problems esp if we can make suggestions to improve the status quo. The greatest irritation is that the cost does not equate to the quality or functionality so when all cat owners and brands start changing to commercial ff, they may only then improve their product...

@wjk9837 10 месяцев назад

Stainless steel is not easy to keep spotless, especially in marine environment. There are some who svare that light coat of WD40 (gently rubbed in) helps to keep rust spots in check. Not sure if it would work in sea (solty) environment but it seems to make difference in lake (fresh water) environment. Good luck with your battles with rust at sea 😉

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks WJK! Yes we have used WD40 for short term protection on our sinks and fridges but father months we were away, we thought Silicon would stay on the surface for longer.

@Deedeedee214 10 месяцев назад

Just another case of easy-stamp stainless steel, add the word "MARINE", and double or triple the price! If the heads of a boat builder's departments and the company president had to live together on hull 1 of each design for 6 weeks, they might start producing boats worth a damn.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

You are so right and it is SOOO annoying....

@Steve-rm6gx 10 месяцев назад

Just wondering how a domestic fridge will handle rough seas, best of luck.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Hi Steve, that is a good question. They cannot be tilted over past a certain angle (I don't know exactly how far) so they are not suitable for monohulls but as we only tilt a small amount, they work fine on cats. For the rough weather, we will need latches to lock the doors as several folk have stated here.

@henryoppermann134 10 месяцев назад

Those freezer issues are due to bad door seals.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the comment, Henry. I am sure you are right but it seems that ALL the Vitrifrigos then have substandard seals as it occurs on everyone we have had (6) and all the people we know too... A very poor reflection of their quality!

@henryoppermann134 10 месяцев назад

I would contact the mfr, and ask for a deal retrofit kit with a softer durometer rubber/ vinyl…, you may want to try Flitz also for the protection of the stainless. Silicone attracts moisture….not a good lubricant or moisture barrier.

@MrCoyote928 10 месяцев назад

I would only use LiFepo4 batteries 🔋 on the new boat.. They're not flammable like lithium ion batteries....

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for that info - certainly most people thought our Leopard 50 fire was caused by Lithium batteries and we had AGMs... I will look into those batteries!

@user-dx8zh5ql2l 10 месяцев назад

Just buy a normal fridge that you have in house. As they are available all over and cheap . Samsung LG Smegg all standard sizes . If it breaks easy to buy new one

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

We agree absolutely! I!!

@w8stral 10 месяцев назад

Stainless steel is NOT stainless. SOME stainless steels are stainless, but even they can corrode(such as rigging made from 316L) Some stainless is superior to 316L, but VERY expensive and your average person has NEVER seen it or held it in their hands. Seen on Aerospace applications. Refrigerator "stainless" steel is junk in terms of salt environment(sorry, but true). Polish it, clean it, and then epoxy clear coat it. By the time the epoxy clear coat dies(it will), the refrigerator will die anyways, or sand the clear coat down and recoat it if by some miracle the refrigerators guts have not corroded to death in the salt environment.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Wes! You are absolutely right!!! We were told by a stainless welder 20 years ago that it is STAIN “LESS” - not “NO STAIN”!!! So true…

@nickwythe7128 10 месяцев назад

Stainless steel comes in a range of grades 304 and 316 being the most common the latter being the most corrosive resistant due to nickel content. I suggest you are dealing with 304 not that great in a marine environment. Thanks for your content.❤❤

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Nick, yes you are right and I am not aware if Vitrifrigos are made with 304 or 316 but I had assumed (due to the price and the reputation) that they would have been made with 316. If they use 304, that is absurd as they are specifically made for marine use!

@nickwythe7128 10 месяцев назад

could not agree more its about cost. Reputation questionable. @@barefootdoctorssailing8567

@meshedgears2794 10 месяцев назад

its the molybdenum content, not the nickel.

@RGF56 10 месяцев назад

Looks to me like you didn't use what I would call a tarp to cover the helm , rather a cheaper poly sheet that is not very UV resistant . Most stock feed bags are made of the same material and break down exactly the same way as yours . Really surprised to see your Vitrifrigo review , I thought they were the best . Do you have them set on the lowest/coldest setting per chance .?

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Hi RGF, thanks for the comments. You are right about the tarp but I will have to buy better tarps next time... We have the setting just high enough to keep the freezer frozen while not so cold that the fridge freezes (as it damages fruit and veggies). There is only one control for both the F+F. It is a the 2.5 point of 5 lights so about in the middle.

@nspctor7729 10 месяцев назад

Place a magnet against the SS front door. If the magnet holds the SS is of poor quality (too much iron) A quality SS will not attract. Edit: I would stay away from powder coated finishes. Once damaged or pin-holed the rust is 4EVER, stick with a quality SS and use a SS cleaner/polish. Cheers,

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Great point - magnets do not hold onto the fridge so it is SS and I would have expected it to be 316.... I know even 316 does leech some rust. Thanks for your info about powder coated items rusting with pin holes.

@wjk9837 10 месяцев назад

Darn auto spell check. It should be "There are some who swear that ........". My apologies 😊

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

:) No worries!

@rodwaski 10 месяцев назад

Where did you hard stand for the winter?

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

It was in A! Shipyard, Rhodes, Rod. Just south of the new Marina.

@geoffhunwick9151 10 месяцев назад

To stop stainless steel rusting after cleaning rub the s/ steel with kerosene which gets into the pores of the burnished s/ steel .The ice is due to the door seals not sealing from word go,poor. Safe travels

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Kerosene!!! Interesting Geoff.

@geoffhunwick9151 10 месяцев назад

The cleaners in high rise buildings use kerosene on the lifts burnished s/ steel which reduces finger marks etc.

@JourneyofaFisherman 10 месяцев назад

Marine fridges, over priced for what they are. In 20 years of running boats marine drawer fridge would have caused the most hassles from anything else. Easy to find and replace a domestic fridge.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for letting us know from your long experience, Tony! Glad we appear to be on track!!!

@w8stral 10 месяцев назад

Oh, regarding power calculations: The Devil is in the details on those retail refrigerators: They lie(technically they don't) on their shiny borchures. The only question is HOW. How many times was it opened and closed? Unknown. What is ambient exterior temperature? Unknown. How many kg of food/drinks are added in their calculation? Unknown. Some, have VASTLY superior insulation/seals(some have double magnetic seals) than other refrigerator freezers. They also weigh a LOT more. LG, GE, Bosch, Electrolux, Kitchen Aid, Samsung, Frigidaire, etc are ALL identical and all have single seals and are ~junk. They all get identical parts from China or Mexico and assemble them. IF you want reliablility do NOT get an ice maker in them. Sorry, for a true refrig that lasts, you have to pony up $$$ and it will set you back $10k. Dear God... I just looked at Sub Zero price and they want $15k+ There are other insane options out there but... they at least work.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the info - we will try to work out all the details and risks. And yes, I am sure that their figures are with the fridges not being opened at all and with the ambient temp being a cool European day eg 18* or less...

@Skippernick1957 10 месяцев назад

Those fridges and freezers are rubbish.

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the comment, Nick! I presume you are talking about the Vitrifrigos and not the Samsungs / F+Ps?

@IvanMidwing 10 месяцев назад

Samsung is the way to go!

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

Glad to hear that Ivan!!! Thanks for the feedback.

@IvanMidwing 10 месяцев назад

@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 your Welcome 🤗 Wish I could trade in my little pocket trawler (Camano Troll;) for a PortoFino.... Although I need a little bit more money so keeping them fingers crossed for a big hit on Eurojackpot ;) Cheers

@barefootdoctorssailing8567 10 месяцев назад

@@IvanMidwing Good luck with your ticket!