thanks David, really appreciate it. I've said it before.... I'm a DP before being a YTer, I'm here to share my true and honest DP experience with the gear I use.
This is a brilliant demonstration of the camera’s ISO performance, and the exposure choices you need to make. Thank you very much, I’ve learned a huge amount. I am now clicking ‘subscribe’!
You are by far the best when it comes to camera reviews, so much detail and perfect presentation!! You should do the mega comparison of speedboosted BMPCC 4K / BMPCC 6K / A7 sIII / S5 / XT3 / R6 / R5 for dynamic range, noise and when it falls apart in grading, and your toughts :) that would surely be highly appreciated by many many people!
Good information. In the Door example .. I thought it was generally accepted now that when recording Vlog one should (nearly) always expose +2 or 3 higher anyway to preserve the black and mids.
As everyone else has said, this video is GREAT and extremely informative with the tests that you have done and the visualizations are superb!!!... Now, for a functional question, have you tested the noise when it is BELOW ISO 640? Many people say that you should set your ISO as low as possible for the cleanest images and I was wondering what your testing shows with these same methods? I am looking for that data that shows that if you have enough light, does it make any difference to shoot below ISO 640 to get even cleaner images / video? I typically shoot video outdoors in bright sunlight and would like to know if I can use that extra light to my advantage by shooting at an even lower ISO (like 100) and use my light to make other more useful changes like higher shutter speed, higher F-stop for more deeper focus?
A few things here - The dual ISO is not designed totally for the noise level, if you look at the same ISO system used on a Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, they include a chart and explain the reasoning - which is to retain dynamic range into higher ISO settings. And in the video you raised the exposure without saying how you raised the exposure. Aperture or shutters speed etc. will raise the exposure and allow more light - but if you ETTR and use ISO - you are not allowing more light, you are raising the gain on the same amount of light, which produces another factor of noise. I realize you had the ISO at 3200 for your side by side, but changing aperture depending on the lens might be part of the reason for a cleaner image in the mids. The 10 bit in V-log should give you more latitude for getting a cleaner image in the midtones when compensating in post. When people raise the blacks they are not completely aware of the fact that shadow detail is also lost. Shadow detail is part of the dynamic range and is tossed aside by a lot of people to accommodate noise suppression.
@@CINENIMUS How so? ISO is after the sensor. Exposure is actual light hitting the sensor. Instead of telling people to use their head, maybe try to articulate what I said into your personal opinion or view of it, in a technical response. And also consider that a lot of people buying and using this camera, are shooting video. So shutter speed is usually not part of the equation in exposure.
Fantastic experiment, thanx. In higher ISO dynamic range shifts to allocate more of itself above the middle gray (in compare with Lower or base ISO s ) , all digital sensors are like that, even Venice and Alexa. it's counter intuitive, one thnks "oh, higher ISO must produce better lit shadows" , but no. Under intense sun light it's best to raise the ISO. Weird but true.
As always, you're videos are super informative. Would these test results apply equally to the S1H? Thanks for your efforts with these RU-vid channels. Keep up the great work.
What can I say? Super helpful! Panasonic recommends (on the S1H) that you should expose so middle gray is 42 ire on the Luminance spot meter. Exposing to the upper half of the screen what would you estimate the middle gray IRE should be---or should you worry so much about that? Since the S5 and the S1H share the same full frame sensor should exposure be the same insofar as you have control of it on the S5? Thanks so much! Your videos are really, REALLY great.
Great video! I great advice about exposing to the right. A lot of DPs swear by underexposing and never clipping the highlights but I've noticed on my GH5 that it's hard to bring back the blacks than the whites, so I tend to overexpose one or two stops to gain details in the shadows and only underexposed if there is a lot of sky or blown out windows in frame
Thanks Trayne for the support... yeah ETTR is a solution to such scenario, keep in mind it's not the solution for everything, ETTL would work in other scenarios. SO other DPs are correct as well. it all depends on your scene. Here I was mainly referring to the noise issue and its solution.
Whats your choice on A7siii vs S5 ? I just switched from Sony A7sii, A7iii to Panasonic S1, just hate the Sony 8bit color and poor color science, but now seems the world has changed a lot. Most of my video job will have proper lighting, not in a large scale but good enough. Cheers mate! Support you always. Best videography technique channel ever!
Thanks for the kind words... well A7SIII is technically a higher level camera than S5. MUCH better AF... MUCH higher FPS at 4k FF. So yeah, if you have the cash, then I'd go A7SIII, ONLY if you don't care about Photo resolution. I still gotta test it... but so far, from the trusted sources i know, they rave about it
@@THEDPJOURNEY Thx mate, finally I got the S1H, happy with it now ! S1H as a main camera then the S1 will be the B-cam Maybe selling the S1 to get a S5 as B cam
Really helpful video Sherif! These cameras are performing pretty well as Full HD cameras in my opinion... For 4K resolution, you can only film in Aps-c to get a consistent look, but then you have to deal with the noise...But I still enjoy my S1 :D
@@ratadeldesierto760 there are quite a bit of compromises, like moiré, noise compression, true 4K instead of downsampled 6K signal, RGB readout, light gathering, lens distortion/vignette, and probably more stuff that I'm forgetting... This is what you compromise when you swap from a full frame to aps-c sensor readout, and to my eyes it's a big mess...if it's fine for you, then I'm really happy for you. I'm really happy to work in Full-HD and upscale to 4K in post if I need to use slowmotion.
@UnraveledJA in this test it was about finding the performance of the sensor while keeping the lens as a constant. That’s why I didn’t change the aperture. It’s a technical test rather than a filmmaking technique tip in other words. With that said, for static objects, I won’t worry about the shutter angle, that only matters for moving aubjects
This video was absolutely fantastic thank you for making it. I think it applies to the s5ii as well this has been my findings. What about CineD? I find it completely handles noise in shadows way better than vlog which I understand is the camera doing noise reduction, but do you have any idea what kind of dynamic range it's providing?
I'm loving this S5 intel.. for the record, I'm 99% ready to drop one in my shopping cart.. but still teased by Z6s (to be announced) and XT-4.. someone please help me not over-analyze this and lose free 45mm prime for ordering early!
AF is not good ... it won't ever be as long as it's only contrast based AF. If you can live with that, I'd trust the Panasonic more than the overheating Canon offerings.
Same here. If you can live without good AF, the Panasonics offer great colour, superb dynamic range and incredible ISO performance. I recently shot at 16.000 ISO during the night, people were only illuminated by some lampions at VLOG (something you aren't supposed to do). And the results looked absolutely stunning!
@@LeoLikesVideos Totally.. that *live without good AF* thing is a big deal. I eventually came across a review that demonstrated that the S5 really only performs adequately for video AF in crop mode. Otherwise it was quite discouraging. I decided to cancel my pre-order w/B&H and picked up another m43 (G9) body and lenses and might return to this in another year or so. I wasn't ready to start investing heavy in L glass with the dubious AF. But, the low light performance of S5 and dynamic range are stellar.. I'm going to miss that for sure.
Hi Man, great video. Could you compare the Full hd slow mo 100-180 fps quality with gh5/gh5s? As I spotted in the spec sheet full hd S&Q mode is limited just to 28 Mbps...
why i cant change my EV, when i press the button it just happend nothing (all setting are normal, and yes, i restart all camera settings) ?! i can only this change in auto ISO mode... what i dont needed ofcource hopefully somebody can help me =)
I know this is predominantly an ISO test, but did you consider the impact of Dual ISO on dynamic range? The scene at 3:10 would have been interesting to see at ISO4000 too, as theoretically you would have had less noise and not clipped the highlights. However, in practice I’m not sure if that’s how it’s come out. I’ve always seen the main benefit of the second ISO circuit being the dynamic range being closer to the base ISO level. Would love to see a test
CineD guys Lab Tested the S1H sensor, which is the same sensor here, and they concluded there's no loss in DR switching between High and Low ISO Gain settings. Here's more about it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VvESkUi1TRw.html
The DP Journey oh that’s surprising, I thought circuit 1 and 2 had same dynamic range at their native bases, but got progressively worse as they increased.
@@walrusgumboot I think 4000 should have more dynamic range than 3200, because there's less information appearing as noise, and more information appearing as useable range.
Fantastic video once again Sherif! I'm looking to move to a 1st full-frame mirrorless camera as a videographer, would you say the AF tracking on the S5 is a massive issue for anything other than just casual video? I personally think the 4k 10bit 4:2:2, IBIS and firmware updates ticks many boxes but I'm not sure. The A7SIII is perfect but I can't justify the price when I can buy the S5 and build a decent lens range.
I like your analysis of the noise a lot but I totally diagree on your ETTR Advice. In scenes with high dynamic range (like your example) you will not only clip you highlights but also limit the available stops in the highlights. This results not only in very badly clipped highlights but also in a super harsh roll-off. I agree that you can use ETTR in low-DR scenes as you have way more dynamic range in your sensor than the scene, here you can save shadows from the noise floor in a non-destructive way. But this doens't work for any shot coming close to your sensor's maximum DR. Just look at 3:15 compared to 4:31. Yes the door has a lot less noise but your highlights looks very dull, you lost all details (just look at the left side; white wall) and the roll-off is way worse. You saved the door but almost destroyed the tonal range of the image as a whole in a destructive way. In the end, you will never get back the lost stops in the highlights and of course also not the clipped ones. But you can do for sure something with that noise which is way less destructive (NeatVideo will fix this very easily in a acceptable way). And let's face it in the end: How likely is it, that in a well lit scene your subject will enter the frame through the darkest part of the image without any lighting (and how likely is it that they zoom in that hard vs. seeing the dead highlights). I think the chances are close to zero, even in a documentary. In the end you will expose this scene to either +- 0EV (or -1) and add a light to the door (behind the pillars or whatever). If I am too serious about it, I am sorry. I really like your videos in general.
Thank you so much for the comment and for your support to my channel. Let me clarify my advise... there would never be a single advise that can work for every single situation. Anyone that tells you that they have 1 solution would be blatantly lying. The example I gave here was to show you a general trick I personally use whenever I can to treat scenes that are predominantly in the midtones or lower midtones with a minimum amount of highlights that can be sacrificed without much regrets. Does it work for ALL other possible scenes? of course not... That would never work on a high key image, since it'll blow the whole thing up. I believe you missed the point of this example, it's mainly to give you an example of my "thought process" as a DP and how to handle a scene. That's what we get paid for in the end. Just like how you did in your comment. You said "Add light", yes that's also an option I would consider... but if I have an 8K HMI maybe that I'll place off frame? or maybe I can shoot the same scene in multiple exposures and composite them in post, much cheaper... And yes... neat video is like magic... but it doesn't recover color depth that's lost in the shadows.. So my point again is I'm giving you a general idea... a solution to get rid of noise with the least amount of effort, as well as a method of thinking. I'm not offering an all in 1 solution for all your problems. Hope that clarifies my point. And thanks again for your comment and support
Amazing Content! Best review of S5 after I have seen a lot... one question, which would be the higest IRE when you can recover the highligts? I would like to be at the edge of the right. Thank you!!
Well anything higher than 100 clips anyway in all cameras, unless you're shooting RAW or HLG which has a different scale. I will need to confirm it for you... but Panasonic claimed it's +6 stops
Thank you very informative video! How to turn off auto iso and set to 640/4000 when recording video.. It automatically sets to auto iso when recording video ..
Very useful information! Various questions that were created during the video, you explained them in the next frame and in great detail! I urge you to continue this wonderful work and give us your help.
Great video. I just subscribed to your channel. Really informative. In the example provided, How were you able to expose +3 stops (from -2 to +1) without changing your ISO? Did you open your aperture? Thanks
@@THEDPJOURNEY I’m not sure I follow on this one. Wouldn’t Increasing the EV effect the shutter speed and the aputure? What if you don’t have any wiggle room left. Can you please clarify 🙏 Also a huge thank you for you content, it’s amazing. You are a true hidden gem.
Your videos are definitely the best in terms of clear and precise explanation, I am very happy to have stumbled across your channel, keep up the excellent work sir!
Hopefully some of this stuff can be ironed out with firmware update. Panasonic have given decent support with firmware updates in the past. Thanks for these tips good to know when I start using the camera.
I would buy a Panasonic in a heartbeat if they had Sony quality AF. I don't understand why they still use the oldest tech. I'm sure they have the ability to make it happen, but for some reason they don't.
I am wondering whether to get 2 of these S5s as really I need a backup body or b-cam and cannot afford the S1H - unless second-hand possibly. My current setup involves a couple of GH4s and a GX80 for wide shots, so anything will be an improvement in the low-light stakes......but just wondering if I should just buy ONE S5 and wait to see whether there is an improved model......or else try for a cheap second-hand S1H (which will most likely have to be off ebay with no warranty)....anyone else having the same dilemma?
The DP Journey do you mind clarifying what you explain between second 30 and second 40? Because, if I understand correctly, you’re saying that the S5, unlike the S1H, changes ISO from 640 to 4000 automatically. My S1H does that too, but ISO is not set on auto. When I switch from low to high, it will automatically switch from 640 to 4000. Probably I missed something in your explanation. Thank you!
In the S5, it switches automatically to the high gain setting after 3200 to choose 4000. While in the S1H when you reach 4000 on it, you can still be on the low gain ISO without switching to the high. Hope that makes sense
The DP Journey it does. I get it now, clever so the camera avoids potential noise. I have shot a feature with the S1H and I’m carrying the S5 as a B-cam in Brazil for my last scene in a month time.
Would this equally apply to photography with the S5? Using V-Log profile at ISO 4000 will yield the widest dynamic range for low light image capture? ISO 640 would achieve the same for using the Normal profile? Now I’m really confused as I thought RAW photos are unaffected by picture profiles? 🤔 Sorry for my confusion.
Don't use V-Log for photos. You are just giving yourself a long convoluted workflow for no reason. You will need to boost exposure, match colours, etc. And be restricted to ISO 640 minimum. Instead, start with the Photo Style that suits your desired end. I use Natural, but Vivid is good too. The RAW files can still be manipulated as much as you like.
@@RobinParmar thanks for that reply, it’s the conclusion I came to after a quick exploration of photographically capturing a variety of scenes in all the different profiles. I’m now on either Flat with sharpness and contrast at -2 or Natural with saturation at -2. I’m using all vintage glass too. Thanks again for the reply, it’s much appreciated.
This video is great. I wonder though, with the house and door example, you increase the exposure on the same iso, which is a good example to understand things, but in the real world usually we are at a high ISO because we can't increase the exposure in any other way. So my question is, when you have a dark image and you need to increase iso, is it better not to push iso too much, or better to push it and then reduce the exposure in post? because that's the decision I can actually make when filming and I'm already wide open with no ND on.
As usual, the review is a masterpiece! I have S5 for few weeks and still learning it.But i've actually compared 4K60 420 10 bit and FHD 60 422 10 bit and the second option looks better to me. What i'm thinking...theoretically if you shoot in FHD 60 422 10 bit and then upscale it to 4k you will get same noise particles as in 4K60 420 10 Bit, but you will have wider field of view and much brighter picture, because when in APSC mode it gets darker. So for the same night scene you won't have rise up ISO so much as in APSC mode which will eventually result in less noise:))) What do you think? Am i right or am i wrong?
If youre aiming for better noise, more light and wider fov, then yes, you're not wrong. But 4k will always have more detail than FHD, unless youre shooting raw FHD. Why don't just use 4k 24? That mode doesn't have crop isn't it? And use the FHD60/ 4k60 for slowmo (24fps timeline) I could be wrong, since i don't own the s5. But i will someday tho 😅